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Post by boyaki on Mar 12, 2017 22:33:40 GMT
Because biotic user use their own strength to use their biotic power, it has been told again and again. Using a permanent armor would exaust them, if they could have all the best gear they would. It is no mistery that every full biotic character until now wore light or no armor. Would an armor be more useful to a biotic user than his own biotic power ? Samara, Mordin and Jack could hardly maintain the biotic shield during the suicide mission, imagine if they wore armor because that what logical biotic would do ? No some biotic consider that their power are the best defense/offense they could provide themself and in some case they are right. Armor makes biotics become exhausted? Citation needed.
Shepard wore the same armors, biotic or not, Keidan didn't wear particularly light armor either. They didn't become "exhausted" from wearing armor... 
Asari commandoes are more the exception rather than the rule, and that's because their fighting style emphasizes high mobility. That said, even light armor can be sealed and made resistant to hazards, certainly much more than bare skin...
Forgive me, but you are pulling here facts out of your ass.
Using biotics constantly takes a lot of effort. Even for someone like Samara or Jack. And you disregarded an important point: Kinetic barriers do not block radiation.
And Shepard was not the best biotic user moreover using biotic classes require to carry few equipement to be truly effective...Kaidan neither and you can discuss with him on that particular issue (all the L2 talk) that is why he is using tech, his biotic ability alone does not make him the best at his job. Full biotic like Liara, Jack, Samara or Morinth does not wear armor...do you see a reason for that ? Why wouldn't they carry heavy ass armor ? Grayson academy showed that biotic user are physically exhausted after a few use of their abilities same for professional biotic user like our squadmates. An armor has weight. Carrying additional weight exhaust you physically. You can see by talking to Kaidan, or during the suicide mission or even during mass effect 3 miranda mission. I really shouldn't have to explain that... Unless armor suddenly stop having a weight and biotic stop exhausting its user then yes, wearing an armor reduce biotic abilities. I mean weight affecting biotic ability is the original reason behind longer cooldown. And that is why biotic class needed to reduce their weight to be effective... Biotic exhausting its user is like number 1 fact about biotic power... And yes i did not talk about radiation...because unless i'm wrong we have yet to see Pee Bee enjoying a bath of radiation. If I see no reason to PeeBee not wearing environmental protection IG i will agree with you. But as said before there are a lot of various reason to explain how PeeBee could adapt to particular environment. If they are not explained IG i will not be happy. A cooling/warming tech does really not seem improbable...like really not. But facing high temperature my reflex is not to wear the same armor that help me in cold environment. |
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 12, 2017 22:34:14 GMT
That explains why there's no customization, yeah, and I'm not really opposed to the approach myself. But it doesn't explain why the iconic looks suck. There was still customization in DAI, with iconic looks I agree. Different team and mandate though. For Mass Effect that was never a priority. |
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Post by vonuber on Mar 12, 2017 22:34:36 GMT
Again, yes they do as shown in ME2 or the entire crew would be dead from radiation poisoning caused by the huge holes in the ship. You might not like it but it's true. The following is a Codex quote: "The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation." Yet the game shows otherwise, unambiguously. Look I think it's silly, and I much prefer hard suits etc, but what i am saying is that you can't argue it one way or the other, and ultimately it's down to Bioware to adhere to or re-write the lore as they see fit. Doers it make is less narratively consistent? Of course, but then it never has been a strong point of the series. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 22:35:03 GMT
That explains why there's no customization, yeah, and I'm not really opposed to the approach myself. But it doesn't explain why the iconic looks suck. devs, don't think they suck? I agree. Which is why I'm surprised that we're having the realism debate now. Customization or no customization, there was no reason to think that the devs had changed their minds about this, and nothing we ever saw gave any reason to think that we were ever going to se PeeBee in a helmet. |
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Post by projectpatdc on Mar 12, 2017 22:36:05 GMT
Anyone know if their outfits will change according to what planet they visit? It was okay in the original Mass Effect series to have them dressed like that when visiting a toxic planet but many years later, and with the advances of technology, I expect much more. Hopefully when he said "they'll do their own thing", he means they'll have dynamically changing outfits. Regarding the weapon thing, I realized it's not that big of a deal. They have their own preference for guns because it's what they're used to. They each have their own specific feel for a certain gun, they know what it can and can't do and it's predictable for them. For example, for anyone that watches hockey, the players always use the same stick brand because it's what they're used to, they know the feel, the bend and all that. They don't change it up every game because it'll be something foreign feeling and that's not good when you're in the middle of things. I'm sorry but the weapon excuse is just piss poor and lazy. I can understand limiting it to certain classes of weapons for each character, but not being able to collect, mod, and give our squad mates weapons just screams bro shooter and not RPG. Or sheer lazy streamlining. It's bad when MLB The Show has more customization options than a Bioware RPG |
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Post by areskeith on Mar 12, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
There was still customization in DAI, with iconic looks I agree. Different team and mandate though. For Mass Effect that was never a priority. Well it wasn't a main priority but it was something they wanted to do |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 22:40:37 GMT
That explains why there's no customization, yeah, and I'm not really opposed to the approach myself. But it doesn't explain why the iconic looks suck. There was still customization in DAI, with iconic looks True, and I thought it worked just fine. But I can see the ME:A devs looking at the timesheets from the DAI devs and saying "Pass." The DA series got major grief for a lack of squadmate customization, but ME didn't, not really. Hell, they made money off of those dopey appearance packs. If the issue doesn't seem to hit many people, and fixing it is not only fairly costly but makes a profitable DLC line less so.... well, I've lost strategy battles when I had more on my side than customization does. |
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Mar 12, 2017 22:42:30 GMT
It's called "laziness"
I am not sure what else I could chalk this latest glorious tidbit to
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Post by boyaki on Mar 12, 2017 22:43:10 GMT
Does a RPG is defined by customising our teammate ?
I mean Ryder has more customisation than ever...
Squadmate are mostly meatbag in mass effect, they have only useful ability. In every run I did, i never saw a squadmate making a kill. They probably did some I miss, and help me making some. But in a fight I never saw a opponent i was not focusing dropping.
In that regard does micromanaging our squadmate improve the gaming experience in anyway ?
In DA squadmate are useful, and you choose their specialization, appropriate gear is logic. In mass effect they are neither useful and have a set class so the only RPG thing you could do is taking the obvious better armor or weapon, yeah hurrah, the gameplay is way more pleasant when I gave my soldier squadmate a armor that improve his damage of 10% rather than 5%, too bad that armor is ugly but the gameplay is so much better.
And I don't think have been hard to had a function that allow squadmate to have different weapon, so it was a conscious choice (poor or not) but not a lazy one.
It takes much longer too had new content to copy/paste a system you already apply to one character and adding it to every other.
You people seems to think that dev are mean god with infinite ressource that just don't want to put things into their game. You can argue that the game prioritize some element they shouldn't have, but saying the did not had something because they were lazy is really stupid.
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Post by mugwump v1 on Mar 12, 2017 22:44:11 GMT
If I see no reason to PeeBee not wearing environmental protection IG i will agree with you. But as said before there are a lot of various reason to explain how PeeBee could adapt to particular environment. If they are not explained IG i will not be happy. There exists no plausible reason to explain away why PeeBee goes exploring hostile alien worlds with her navel exposed. It's pure horseshit, plain and simple. End of. |
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Post by boyaki on Mar 12, 2017 22:51:17 GMT
And Shepard was not the best biotic user moreover using biotic classes require to carry few equipement to be truly effective...Kaidan neither and you can discuss with him on that particular issue (all the L2 talk) that is why he is using tech, his biotic ability alone does not make him the best at his job. Full biotic like Liara, Jack, Samara or Morinth does not wear armor...do you see a reason for that ? Why wouldn't they carry heavy ass armor ? Grayson academy showed that biotic user are physically exhausted after a few use of their abilities same for professional biotic user like our squadmates. An armor has weight. Carrying additional weight exhaust you physically. You can see by talking to Kaidan, or during the suicide mission or even during mass effect 3 miranda mission. I really shouldn't have to explain that... Unless armor suddenly stop having a weight and biotic stop exhausting its user then yes, wearing an armor reduce biotic abilities. I mean weight affecting biotic ability is the original reason behind longer cooldown. And that is why biotic class needed to reduce their weight to be effective... Biotic exhausting its user is like number 1 fact about biotic power... And yes i did not talk about radiation...because unless i'm wrong we have yet to see Pee Bee enjoying a bath of radiation. If I see no reason to PeeBee not wearing environmental protection IG i will agree with you. But as said before there are a lot of various reason to explain how PeeBee could adapt to particular environment. If they are not explained IG i will not be happy. A cooling/warming tech does really not seem improbable...like really not. But facing high temperature my reflex is not to wear the same armor that help me in cold environment. No. Just no. You are making excuses that has nothing to do with the lore, and inferring far too much from the fact that Asari tend to use light armor.
Just a point, we fought a large number of Asari biotics in ME2, and many of them wore full armor and a helmet. Do you remember Tela Vasir? She was a superb biotic. She did not wear light armor and it didn't hinder her in the slightest.
This design decision is dumb and you are making baseless excuses in order to somehow justify it.
Also, you should probably go read the lore on biotics again.
So I don't understand. -Are you saying that biotic does not exhaust its user ? -Are you saying that weight does not exhaust the one that carry it ? -Are you saying that different sources exhausting one person does not add to the overall exhaustion ? That is basic logic with yes/no answer. And i just look Tela Vasir fight. She just do a bunch of biotic charge, not to impressive in term of biotic ability... And no showing a fight against a biotic user not exhausting after one fight (with no proof of that) does not make a point. There is no doubt a biotic user could use biotic power and wear an armor at the same time. But could they run all day in armor and still having their full power at the end of the day ? Biotic exhaust you. You cannot use biotic power when you are exhausted. Wearing armor require additional physical effort and so exhaust you faster...that is not fact I invent...it is just simple observable fact. Doing physical stuff exhaust you... I really shouldn't have to explain that. |
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 12, 2017 22:54:09 GMT
Just to point out that we had light armour in the game:  This is a light and fully protective armor. What Peebee has is called clothes. And in both ME2 and 3 we had biotics that used armor. The worst part is that I start to miss Mirandas Skinsuit. Because even that has more protective abilities than Peebees. As I said before, if people don't care that Bioware are moving in the "rule of cool" direction, good for you. But don't try to make up explanations that we know are not true. If they are going to give a good explanation in the game I will take from there, but before that happens I will stand by my opinion. |
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Mar 12, 2017 23:08:29 GMT
And Shepard was not the best biotic user moreover using biotic classes require to carry few equipement to be truly effective...Kaidan neither and you can discuss with him on that particular issue (all the L2 talk) that is why he is using tech, his biotic ability alone does not make him the best at his job. Full biotic like Liara, Jack, Samara or Morinth does not wear armor...do you see a reason for that ? Why wouldn't they carry heavy ass armor ? Grayson academy showed that biotic user are physically exhausted after a few use of their abilities same for professional biotic user like our squadmates. An armor has weight. Carrying additional weight exhaust you physically. You can see by talking to Kaidan, or during the suicide mission or even during mass effect 3 miranda mission. I really shouldn't have to explain that... Unless armor suddenly stop having a weight and biotic stop exhausting its user then yes, wearing an armor reduce biotic abilities. I mean weight affecting biotic ability is the original reason behind longer cooldown. And that is why biotic class needed to reduce their weight to be effective... Biotic exhausting its user is like number 1 fact about biotic power... And yes i did not talk about radiation...because unless i'm wrong we have yet to see Pee Bee enjoying a bath of radiation. If I see no reason to PeeBee not wearing environmental protection IG i will agree with you. But as said before there are a lot of various reason to explain how PeeBee could adapt to particular environment. If they are not explained IG i will not be happy. A cooling/warming tech does really not seem improbable...like really not. But facing high temperature my reflex is not to wear the same armor that help me in cold environment. No. Just no. You are making excuses that has nothing to do with the lore, and inferring far too much from the fact that Asari tend to use light armor.
Just a point, we fought a large number of Asari biotics in ME2, and many of them wore full armor and a helmet. Do you remember Tela Vasir? She was a superb biotic. She did not wear light armor and it didn't hinder her in the slightest.
This design decision is dumb and you are making baseless excuses in order to somehow justify it.
Also, you should probably go read the lore on biotics again.
this Asari commandos also wear armor and are Biotics. Also ME2 teaches us that soldiers are augmented...enhanced muscle fibers, increased bone calcification and whatnot. Armor also adds servos to the mix (it is in many armor pieces descriptions). Yes, this is all laziness....and hubris |
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Post by boyaki on Mar 12, 2017 23:09:12 GMT
And once again does a light armor really protect you from everything.
Clearly if your job is to be a soldier you should wear an armor at all time because sooner or latter you will get hurt and a light armor could be useful. But Pee Bee is no soldier and you constantly think she should dress as one... Pee bee is no asari commando, I hope you realised that.
She does put herself in harmway obviously but her combat style (being quick, tech aiming ability and biotic crowd control) does not require her to have her to put herself too long in danger. She just need a few second to act and have her shield for that.
Seriously...most of the enemies does have armor but no shield and it is okay. But Pee Bee a scientist having no armor but a shield is ridiculous on the field ?
You don't want unprotected people around toxic waste, fine me too, so bring someone else in that particular situation geez...
but when i will explore remnant vault with drone using laser, an armor won't be useful at all an asari scientist might.
That damn thane wearing no armor did not had such complain, neither the common soldier without a shield, or Miranda, or Jack, or Tali, Or Liara, or Samara, or Kasumi, or Jacob or Mordin or any C-SEC officer. I just think people that do not like Pee Bee tries to find any reason to unjustify her existence even a stupid one like not wearing armor when half the character in mass effect does the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 23:10:09 GMT
devs, don't think they suck? I agree. Which is why I'm surprised that we're having the realism debate now. Customization or no customization, there was no reason to think that the devs had changed their minds about this, and nothing we ever saw gave any reason to think that we were ever going to se PeeBee in a helmet. The realism debate has been going on for quite awhile. There were some very long threads addressing it on the old, original, official BSN. As for reason - while the devs had not made any statements about what they would do going forward, I think a lot of us were very hopeful - perhaps particularly because they made regular references to going back to the roots of ME1. |
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Post by boyaki on Mar 12, 2017 23:13:43 GMT
So I don't understand. -Are you saying that biotic does not exhaust its user ? -Are you saying that weight does not exhaust the one that carry it ? -Are you saying that different sources exhausting one person does not add to the overall exhaustion ? That is basic logic with yes/no answer. 1. Constant biotic use is exhausting, yes, which is exactly why you don't go into a hostile environment while needing to constantly use your biotics, that's just dumb.
2. Armor does not seem to overly tire wearers, no. Some armors are even mechanized and have synthetic muscles IIRC. The "weight" mechanic in regards to weapons has nothing to do with the lore, it's just a gameplay mechanic that makes players choose between faster CD / heavier firepower.
3. I'm saying that biotics do not block heat or radiation LIKE IT CLEARLY SAYS IN THE CODEX, and are therefore insufficient to protect an individual from environmental hazards in any way. And as Armor does not seem to overly tire wearers, as it was proven by many characters in ME, such as Shepard, Keidan, Tela Vasir, Eclipse sisters, and other, your argument is null.
Edit: I'm done. I can barely understand your English, and you don't seem to understand the lore very well, there's really no further point to this debate.
You answering my weight = exhaustion point by saying : "it does not protect you from radiation dammit" (a point I agree on ten post ago...) just show that you are the one that does not understand anything. And armor not tire their wearer is just stupid...that is not a lore fact, that is basic world logic. Biotic user wearing additional gear augment the cooldown of abilities and full biotic user (the strongest) not wearing armor should a pretty obvious fact. Then what would have happen to suicide mission if the most powerfull biotic wearing nothing to exhaust them were at the limit of their capacity by the end of their session had wore an armor. They did not use their power all day, and not using their power was not an option. I did try with other biotic user...and it was messy. Some biotic user use other ability and equipement to compensate their weakness. Some prefer focusing on their biotic abilities and in the case of the suicide mission i'm glad they did. If Armor had no consequence on that why would Samara not wear them. I understand that Jack love her look but Samara is a century old warrior no ? But maybe we could keep denying every evidence that weight has consequence on the physical state of people...I mean that not like wearing an armor and running/fighting could possibly tire you... If Samara or Jack would have wear heavier armor they would have exhaust themself too early, and they would be dead. That mission show the full potential of biotics users and their limits. |
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Post by SilJeff on Mar 12, 2017 23:24:16 GMT
Now this is a real head scratcher. It makes no sense
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 12, 2017 23:27:07 GMT
And once again does a light armor really protect you from everything. Clearly if your job you should wear an armor at all time because sooner or latter you will get hurt and a light armor could be useful. But Pee Bee is no soldier and you constantly think she should dress as one... She does put herself in harmway obviously but her combat style (being quick, tech aiming ability and biotic crowd control) does not require her to have her to put herself too long in danger. She just need a few second to act and have her shield for that. Seriously...most of the enemies does have armor but no shield and it is okay. But Pee Bee a scientist having no armor but a shield is ridiculous on the field ? You don't want unprotected people around toxic waste, fine me too, so bring someone else. That damn thane wearing no armor did not had such complain, neither the common soldier without a shield, or Miranda, or Jack, or Tali, Or Liara, or Samara, or Kasumi, or Jacob. I just think people that do not like Pee Bee tries to find any reason to unjustify her existence even a stupid one like not wearing armor when half the character in mass effect does the same thing. Yes! That is why light armor exist! I don't know if you just try to troll or if you don't understand, but armor does help! I can't make it clearer than that. And if you are going to enter a place where you may face enemies, you should do what you can to protect yourself, if not for your own health, you should do it for your team. You can't dodge every thing that you face. No matter what her profession is, if she is going to work with a team of soldiers (that is what we are) she must expect that she will get shot at by enemies. Armor are more common than shields and most enemies are having shields/armor. But how does that give Peebee any reason to walk in dangerous places in CLOTHES? Since you bring in ME2 in this, I will say that I and most of the people that argue against you, HAVE pointed out that that game is also guilty of the "rule of cool" syndrom. But you said that Biotics can't use armor because they get tired. Tell that to the people that use armor. we have in the game characters that use biotics and armor. Why? because it is not that tiresome. Now, answer me this: are you seriously trying to defend the lack of proper armor or do you just not care and rather go by "rule of cool"? If you don't have a issue with the lack of armor that is fine, but you must realise that you are not going to be able to prove that it makes sense in the game lore. |
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Post by vonuber on Mar 12, 2017 23:41:36 GMT
I'd say that part of the reason Bioware doesn't care about lore consistency, may have something to do with tireless defenders like you that jump to defend them every time they crap all over the lore.
If you think I am a tireless defender of Bioware it shows you know nothing about me, matey (also personal attacks really diminish your argument) I personally don't care about the finer details of what route they took home to avoid radiation sickness (seriously, you think about this way too much) because if just wearing a breather mask in the vacuum of space, or having your tits exposed on your suit of armour, or whatever other detail 'makes no sense' is accepted within the game then that's how it is. Plenty of other games, books or films have stretchable and changeable lore as the story demands, Mass Effect is no different. i could quite easily write paragraphs on here about how Peter Jackson dumped all over the lore of the LotR but what's the point apart from 1) making me a look a bit weird 2) raising my blood pressure and 3) getting a smug sense of satisfaction that I have bothered to learn all of that fluff to show off to random people on the internet. At the end of the day it's Bioware's IP and lore to do with as they see fit; personally I don't see the need to get so wound up about it - unless you have an unhealthy emotional attachment to it. |
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Post by Koss on Mar 12, 2017 23:47:42 GMT
I am not too sad about the armor. Weapons is a downside but I am not pissed or hating the developers. *Shrugs*
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Post by Shaftell on Mar 12, 2017 23:49:11 GMT
Anyone know if their outfits will change according to what planet they visit? It was okay in the original Mass Effect series to have them dressed like that when visiting a toxic planet but many years later, and with the advances of technology, I expect much more. Hopefully when he said "they'll do their own thing", he means they'll have dynamically changing outfits. Regarding the weapon thing, I realized it's not that big of a deal. They have their own preference for guns because it's what they're used to. They each have their own specific feel for a certain gun, they know what it can and can't do and it's predictable for them. For example, for anyone that watches hockey, the players always use the same stick brand because it's what they're used to, they know the feel, the bend and all that. They don't change it up every game because it'll be something foreign feeling and that's not good when you're in the middle of things. I'm sorry but the weapon excuse is just piss poor and lazy. I can understand limiting it to certain classes of weapons for each character, but not being able to collect, mod, and give our squad mates weapons just screams bro shooter and not RPG. Or sheer lazy streamlining. It's bad when MLB The Show has more customization options than a Bioware RPG Well, if you take a look at my sport example then it makes sense. Certain people like to use the same weapon every single time because they've grown use to the feeling of it. In soccer, players use the same cleats because it has a familiar feeling for them on their feet. Hockey players use the same sticks, hockey goalies use the same goalie pads, basketball players wear the same shoe brand during the season. It's all about familiarity. I'm not making excuses for the developers, I personally don't like being limited in what I can do in an RPG game especially since the older games allowed you to change squadmate weapons. However, I understand IF the reason they made this choice is because they felt it would be more realistic for the squadmate to use the same weapon out in the field. We don't know though, it could be laziness or whatever. |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 12, 2017 23:51:23 GMT
I don't know. Wearing clothes on an adventure seemed to work for Indiana Jones! He fought Nazis and even encountered lava while in khaki pants and a leather jacket.
I do agree that proper pressurized gear should be used in space/vacuum situations.
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 12, 2017 23:59:17 GMT
I don't know. Wearing clothes on an adventure seemed to work for Indiana Jones! He fought Nazis and even encountered lava while in cargo pants and a leather jacket. I do agree that proper pressurized gear should be used in space/vacuum situations. This only work if I get to drink out of the Holy Grail.  |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2017 23:59:24 GMT
I'd say that part of the reason Bioware doesn't care about lore consistency, may have something to do with tireless defenders like you that jump to defend them every time they crap all over the lore.
If you think I am a tireless defender of Bioware it shows you know nothing about me, matey (also personal attacks really diminish your argument) I personally don't care about the finer details of what route they took home to avoid radiation sickness (seriously, you think about this way too much) because if just wearing a breather mask in the vacuum of space, or having your tits exposed on your suit of armour, or whatever other detail 'makes no sense' is accepted within the game then that's how it is. Plenty of other games, books or films have stretchable and changeable lore as the story demands, Mass Effect is no different. i could quite easily write paragraphs on here about how Peter Jackson dumped all over the lore of the LotR but what's the point apart from 1) making me a look a bit weird 2) raising my blood pressure and 3) getting a smug sense of satisfaction that I have bothered to learn all of that fluff to show off to random people on the internet. At the end of the day it's Bioware's IP and lore to do with as they see fit; personally I don't see the need to get so wound up about it - unless you have an unhealthy emotional attachment to it. While I agree with this, people still get to say what they think about Bio's approach to the lore. Or Jackson's. Jackson's worse. |
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