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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 17, 2017 16:31:23 GMT
What forces them to continue the mass effect franchise. They can totally put that money elsewhere in an other projects. You seem to think that EA HAS to do a mass effect game if MEA fails. And that is not true AT ALL, they can totally consider the franchise to be no more worth it if it is that risky and put bioware elsewhere, that can happen. Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. True... then again, if not MEA, the next game will most likely kill them, since they seam to be absolutely impervious to critique... you can only shuffle around your development teams so often before you realize you got no talent left.
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Post by aionis on Mar 17, 2017 16:31:35 GMT
I can't defend the animations nor the human models, seriously....did they THINK THIS was acceptable in 2017?...after DA:I?
The game looks beautiful and engaging but yeah. I won't lie at all when it comes to obvious issues and ..the CC.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 17, 2017 16:47:48 GMT
What forces them to continue the mass effect franchise. They can totally put that money elsewhere in an other projects. You seem to think that EA HAS to do a mass effect game if MEA fails. And that is not true AT ALL, they can totally consider the franchise to be no more worth it if it is that risky and put bioware elsewhere, that can happen. Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. Note that DA2 seems to have been solidly profitable, even if somewhat damaging to the DA brand equity. DA2 was cheap, after all. The conceptual problem with DA2 was that it turns out that either there isn't any tier between AAA and indie, or that there is but you can't move an existing franchise there. (It's a little bit like that old NBC Leno-at-10PM experiment; Leno made his numbers, but the concept was bad,)
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 17, 2017 16:47:55 GMT
Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. True... then again, if not MEA, the next game will most likely kill them, since they seam to be absolutely impervious to critique... you can only shuffle around your development teams so often before you realize you got no talent left. It depends on how much money it makes. EA seemed to be pretty happy overall with the financial performance of DA:I, even if they didn't give out the exact number of sales. That suggests that Dragon Age 4 is very likely in the early stages of development right now, and there is another new IP that they have cooking that we know virtually nothing about beyond "Yep, it's a thing". I think they've got plenty of talent left, but this shift to the Frostbite hasn't done them any favours(which was forced on them by EA, unfortunately). Both DA:I and ME:A appear to suffer technical issues due to the respective teams working with new tech. Inquisition had a number of things that I looked at and went "They're clearly trying to make the engine do something it was never designed to do here", which might as well have been the subtitle for the Tactical Camera in that game.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 17, 2017 17:00:49 GMT
True... then again, if not MEA, the next game will most likely kill them, since they seam to be absolutely impervious to critique... you can only shuffle around your development teams so often before you realize you got no talent left. It depends on how much money it makes. EA seemed to be pretty happy overall with the financial performance of DA:I, even if they didn't give out the exact number of sales. That suggests that Dragon Age 4 is very likely in the early stages of development right now, and there is another new IP that they have cooking that we know virtually nothing about beyond "Yep, it's a thing". I think they've got plenty of talent left, but this shift to the Frostbite hasn't done them any favours(which was forced on them by EA, unfortunately). Both DA:I and ME:A appear to suffer technical issues due to the respective teams working with new tech. Inquisition had a number of things that I looked at and went "They're clearly trying to make the engine do something it was never designed to do here", which might as well have been the subtitle for the Tactical Camera in that game. Makes it even worse to see how MEA appearebntly turned out, considering this kind of game is exactly what the FB engine was made for... Anyways... sure, it still could make enough money... but seeing as how a) the interest of gamers is general appears to be quite a bit lower then it was with DAI the early previews are even more mixed then those for DAI and c) MEA launches around at least 3 other big, open world action titles, I'm not really expecting much... you know, the steady drop hollows the stone, and the consistent under performance erodes the reputation.
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Post by malgus on Mar 17, 2017 17:01:50 GMT
What forces them to continue the mass effect franchise. They can totally put that money elsewhere in an other projects. You seem to think that EA HAS to do a mass effect game if MEA fails. And that is not true AT ALL, they can totally consider the franchise to be no more worth it if it is that risky and put bioware elsewhere, that can happen. Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. DA2 sold well enough to justify a sequel, like really well despite the criticsm against it. The only way criticsm can kill a franchise is if the sales are terrible because of it (and some franchise can continue without critics approval), Or the game is called complete shit and not just by group of gamer but by sites like IGN or gamespot. If they would gave it a 4 out of 10 like colonial marines then the criticsm could be dangerous to the franchise and for future installments. But let's be fair, even in the worst possible scenario for mass effect andromeda, it would be very surprising that most major "professional web sites" would give the game a lower score than a 7 out of 10. That would be very surprising for them to do that, oh and before anyone bring me one sites that is less enthusiastic about MEA, I mean a majority of the web sites. A MAJORITY. I would also say that considering DA 2 was not that huge in content and only had a year and a half of works, it was probably not as expensive to make as MEA. Which means it did not need to sell that many copies to be profitable and therefore assure a future to the franchise, MEA on the other hand, when you consider the forstbite engine, the amounts of dialogue, the size of the content that this game have. It is going to need much more sales to recup the budget. So if it is not as profitable as EA hopes, I don't see the franchise continuing. We have seen that happen before with other licences. Now don't get me wrong, that is not something I hope. Mass effect is my favorite franchise of all time (and yes that includes the 3) but I am realistick about it and I am not going to say that the mass effect franchise will always continue whatever happens due to the sales of MEA. I am confident it will sell enough because that is mass effect after all, but is failure or dissapointment coudl totally mean the end of the franchise not bringing shepard back. like some people say.
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Good comedy is all about.......timing!
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Post by General Aetius on Mar 17, 2017 17:06:06 GMT
Eeesh I don't want to be in their shoes. This is really unprecedented for a Bioware game to be getting a lot of heat by both players AND critics, before the game is even released. News of the game being a mess is spreading on the internet. While I'm sure plenty of people will like it (hell maybe I will), there seems to be a ton of people who don't so far, and that includes critics. I have to wonder what tomorrow is going to be like for them. Mac Walters is probably having PTSD flashbacks of the ME3 ending debacle. But this time it's their whole game. Haven't played it myself yet so I'll reserve final judgement until I do. Having said that, if MEA turns out it sucks, the panic will be warranted. And I hope they can LEARN from it, and get to work on some SERIOUS patching. Especially if now they still think their shit don't stink. A serious "take them down a notch" is in order.
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You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Draining Dragon
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Draining Dragon on Mar 17, 2017 17:07:22 GMT
about tree fiddy
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 17, 2017 17:18:40 GMT
Oh my...
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 17, 2017 17:19:33 GMT
Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. DA2 sold well enough to justify a sequel, like really well despite the criticsm against it. The only way criticsm can kill a franchise is if the sales are terrible because of it (and some franchise can continue without critics approval), Or the game is called complete shit and not just by group of gamer but by sites like IGN or gamespot. If they would gave it a 4 out of 10 like colonial marines then the criticsm could be dangerous to the franchise and for future installments. But let's be fair, even in the worst possible scenario for mass effect andromeda, it would be very surprising that most major "professional web sites" would give the game a lower score than a 7 out of 10. That would be very surprising for them to do that, oh and before anyone bring me one sites that is less enthusiastic about MEA, I mean a majority of the web sites. A MAJORITY. I would also say that considering DA 2 was not that huge in content and only had a year and a half of works, it was probably not as expensive to make as MEA. Which means it did not need to sell that many copies to be profitable and therefore assure a future to the franchise, MEA on the other hand, when you consider the forstbite engine, the amounts of dialogue, the size of the content that this game have. It is going to need much more sales to recup the budget. So if it is not as profitable as EA hopes, I don't see the franchise continuing. We have seen that happen before with other licences. Now don't get me wrong, that is not something I hope. Mass effect is my favorite franchise of all time (and yes that includes the 3) but I am realistick about it and I am not going to say that the mass effect franchise will always continue whatever happens due to the sales of MEA. I am confident it will sell enough because that is mass effect after all, but is failure or dissapointment coudl totally mean the end of the franchise not bringing shepard back. like some people say. From what I remember DA2 dropped off in sales pretty quickly after word got out it wasn't that great. Although I'm not going to say that Mass Effect will continue no matter what either. It will only continue so long as EA believes it's profitable to continue. I'm not sure if disappointment alone would entirely mean the end of the franchise, but it could put a lot of pressure on the next installment to do well or be thrown out. I actually kind of hope they don't try to bring Shep back in desperation. I'm not against going back to the Milky Way, but Shep's story is over.
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Post by taritu on Mar 17, 2017 17:21:17 GMT
The animation issues are the most damning, imo. It shows something deeply wrong with the people responsible for that. They simply were not up to the job, and need to be replaced. Bioware had to know that glitches like that would lead to the sort of fan reels and gifs that we are seeing, it just makes the game so easily mockable. I would do something about this as EA/Bioware no matter how the game did.
That said, if it sells well overall, they'll be fine.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 17, 2017 17:22:25 GMT
Oh my... ...and again, BW shot them self into the foot with a SWAT door buster shotgun... it's basically ME3s ending all over again, as far as the disconnect between marketing and the actual product are concerned.
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 17, 2017 17:22:33 GMT
Oh my... This is why you take the CDPR approach. You don't have to worry about animating emotion if your main character barely expresses any.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 17, 2017 17:24:27 GMT
DA2 sold well enough to justify a sequel, like really well despite the criticsm against it. The only way criticsm can kill a franchise is if the sales are terrible because of it (and some franchise can continue without critics approval), Or the game is called complete shit and not just by group of gamer but by sites like IGN or gamespot. If they would gave it a 4 out of 10 like colonial marines then the criticsm could be dangerous to the franchise and for future installments. But let's be fair, even in the worst possible scenario for mass effect andromeda, it would be very surprising that most major "professional web sites" would give the game a lower score than a 7 out of 10. That would be very surprising for them to do that, oh and before anyone bring me one sites that is less enthusiastic about MEA, I mean a majority of the web sites. A MAJORITY. I would also say that considering DA 2 was not that huge in content and only had a year and a half of works, it was probably not as expensive to make as MEA. Which means it did not need to sell that many copies to be profitable and therefore assure a future to the franchise, MEA on the other hand, when you consider the forstbite engine, the amounts of dialogue, the size of the content that this game have. It is going to need much more sales to recup the budget. So if it is not as profitable as EA hopes, I don't see the franchise continuing. We have seen that happen before with other licences. Now don't get me wrong, that is not something I hope. Mass effect is my favorite franchise of all time (and yes that includes the 3) but I am realistick about it and I am not going to say that the mass effect franchise will always continue whatever happens due to the sales of MEA. I am confident it will sell enough because that is mass effect after all, but is failure or dissapointment coudl totally mean the end of the franchise not bringing shepard back. like some people say. From what I remember DA2 dropped off in sales pretty quickly after word got out it wasn't that great. Although I'm not going to say that Mass Effect will continue no matter what either. It will only continue so long as EA believes it's profitable to continue. I'm not sure if disappointment alone would entirely mean the end of the franchise, but it could put a lot of pressure on the next installment to do well or be thrown out. I actually kind of hope they don't try to bring Shep back in desperation. I'm not against going back to the Milky Way, but Shep's story is over. I'd consider bringing Shepard back an even riskier move than just starting with a clean slate in the same setting. People are always going to compare any ME PC to Shepard, but actually reimagining Shepard would make this immensely worse.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 17, 2017 17:25:33 GMT
Oh my... This is why you take the CDPR approach. You don't have to worry about animating emotion if your main character barely expresses any. I was wondering about this. There's some eyebrow movement and such, but not much beyond that. Did I get a different version?
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 17, 2017 17:32:39 GMT
This is why you take the CDPR approach. You don't have to worry about animating emotion if your main character barely expresses any. I was wondering about this. There's some eyebrow movement and such, but not much beyond that. Did I get a different version? In The Witcher 3? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of emotion being expressed in facial animations in general. It merely makes sense for Geralt because he was actually written that way from the start. In ME:A, BioWare tried to make characters show a lot more emotion and it backfired in certain places. Playing as Sara there is some early scenes where clearly she's supposed to be smiling but it comes off as really creepy instead. In fact, most scenes where she smiles look off.
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Post by Cyonan on Mar 17, 2017 17:35:40 GMT
This is why you take the CDPR approach. You don't have to worry about animating emotion if your main character barely expresses any. I get the sentiment, but that's actually completely inaccurate.
Leaving aside the fact that Geralt does have emotions and different facial animations, when it comes to other major characters, and even minor ones, facial animation is actually very good. Even relatively minor characters are animated appropriately and accurately enough to show subtle emotions.
ME:A on the other hand seems to be lagging behind the current level of facial animation by a decade at least.
I've been playing The Witcher 3 again waiting for ME:A and honestly, there really isn't a whole lot of emotion on display in the faces of people. Don't get me wrong, the voice acting is brilliant for certain characters but the facial animations don't really show a great range of emotion. As I just noted, it also makes sense for Geralt because while he has emotions, he was always written as a character(at least in the games) as somebody who doesn't really put them on display. I think with ME:A BioWare tried to go a step further than what most games did but ended up stumbling and now they're in uncanny valley territory which makes it look worse than if they had just done the average.
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 17, 2017 17:36:32 GMT
Oh my... ...and again, BW shot them self into the foot with a SWAT door buster shotgun... it's basically ME3s ending all over again, as far as the disconnect between marketing and the actual product are concerned. And people thought they weren't showing the game because they did not want to repeat that, "being careful with the marketing" they said. I tried to make them see... but alas many did not.
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Post by malgus on Mar 17, 2017 17:36:48 GMT
DA2 sold well enough to justify a sequel, like really well despite the criticsm against it. The only way criticsm can kill a franchise is if the sales are terrible because of it (and some franchise can continue without critics approval), Or the game is called complete shit and not just by group of gamer but by sites like IGN or gamespot. If they would gave it a 4 out of 10 like colonial marines then the criticsm could be dangerous to the franchise and for future installments. But let's be fair, even in the worst possible scenario for mass effect andromeda, it would be very surprising that most major "professional web sites" would give the game a lower score than a 7 out of 10. That would be very surprising for them to do that, oh and before anyone bring me one sites that is less enthusiastic about MEA, I mean a majority of the web sites. A MAJORITY. I would also say that considering DA 2 was not that huge in content and only had a year and a half of works, it was probably not as expensive to make as MEA. Which means it did not need to sell that many copies to be profitable and therefore assure a future to the franchise, MEA on the other hand, when you consider the forstbite engine, the amounts of dialogue, the size of the content that this game have. It is going to need much more sales to recup the budget. So if it is not as profitable as EA hopes, I don't see the franchise continuing. We have seen that happen before with other licences. Now don't get me wrong, that is not something I hope. Mass effect is my favorite franchise of all time (and yes that includes the 3) but I am realistick about it and I am not going to say that the mass effect franchise will always continue whatever happens due to the sales of MEA. I am confident it will sell enough because that is mass effect after all, but is failure or dissapointment coudl totally mean the end of the franchise not bringing shepard back. like some people say. From what I remember DA2 dropped off in sales pretty quickly after word got out it wasn't that great. Although I'm not going to say that Mass Effect will continue no matter what either. It will only continue so long as EA believes it's profitable to continue. I'm not sure if disappointment alone would entirely mean the end of the franchise, but it could put a lot of pressure on the next installment to do well or be thrown out. I actually kind of hope they don't try to bring Shep back in desperation. I'm not against going back to the Milky Way, but Shep's story is over. Well the only number I could find about dragon age 2 are on vgchartz but it shows that : www.vgchartz.com/game/44010/dragon-age-ii/ www.vgchartz.com/game/44011/dragon-age-ii/ www.vgchartz.com/game/44012/dragon-age-ii/On pc it sold 0.63 million, on ps3 0.83 million and on xbox 360 1.11 million. which means 2.57 million and that just the physical sales, not the numerous digital sales. So there is way more than that. Now 2.57 million may look small for a triple a game, but considering DA 2 was much MUCH cheaper to make, it did not need the sales of dragon age origins. So lower sales were not going to scare EA out of doing an other dragon age game. Now as you say, mass effect is going to continue if EA consider it profitable, but that is"if" they do. But I am not scare about that, most of the previews have been positive, the character creator and facial animation are harshly criticized but otherwise the game overall has positive previews for most of people. And that game is mass effect, its going to sell game purely on that name, so I am not worried about that. But I Totally agree with you about shepard, I loved him but his story is definately over and does not need a continuation.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 17, 2017 17:37:34 GMT
...and again, BW shot them self into the foot with a SWAT door buster shotgun... it's basically ME3s ending all over again, as far as the disconnect between marketing and the actual product are concerned. And people thought they weren't showing the game because they did not want to repeat that, "being careful with the marketing" they said. I tried to make them see... but alas many did not. You know what people say: Fool me once...
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Post by blueasari on Mar 17, 2017 17:38:47 GMT
I was wondering about this. There's some eyebrow movement and such, but not much beyond that. Did I get a different version? In The Witcher 3? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of emotion being expressed in facial animations in general. It merely makes sense for Geralt because he was actually written that way from the start. In ME:A, BioWare tried to make characters show a lot more emotion and it backfired in certain places. Playing as Sara there is some early scenes where clearly she's supposed to be smiling but it comes off as really creepy instead.In fact, most scenes where she smiles look off.You mean like this
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Post by Madflavor on Mar 17, 2017 17:38:57 GMT
Oh my... I see Mac Walters is still a lying sack of shit. You know what though, I take it back. I don't think they're panicking. I think they've known for awhile now the game was fucked up. It explains the refusal to show the game off for such a long time.
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Post by lgp22 on Mar 17, 2017 17:46:28 GMT
Oh my... ...and again, BW shot them self into the foot with a SWAT door buster shotgun... it's basically ME3s ending all over again, as far as the disconnect between marketing and the actual product are concerned. Makes you wonder, were they lying, which Mac Walters is known to do, or is he that far removed from reality?
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Post by malgus on Mar 17, 2017 17:52:56 GMT
About facial animation, its totally possible that they thought they could do better on this area with more time and ressources put on them. its possible that At some point it was planned to improve them, but finally they switch their attention from that to something else on the game. It happens a lot in game development where plans changes and some features were suppose to be improve or created but then things changed for whatever reasons.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 17, 2017 17:56:14 GMT
Well to be fair, we still got DA:I after DA2 which many consider BioWare's greatest failure. So unless ME:A is an absolute financial disaster, I wouldn't count anything out. DA2 sold well enough to justify a sequel, like really well despite the criticsm against it. The only way criticsm can kill a franchise is if the sales are terrible because of it (and some franchise can continue without critics approval), Or the game is called complete shit and not just by group of gamer but by sites like IGN or gamespot. If they would gave it a 4 out of 10 like colonial marines then the criticsm could be dangerous to the franchise and for future installments. But let's be fair, even in the worst possible scenario for mass effect andromeda, it would be very surprising that most major "professional web sites" would give the game a lower score than a 7 out of 10. That would be very surprising for them to do that, oh and before anyone bring me one sites that is less enthusiastic about MEA, I mean a majority of the web sites. A MAJORITY. I would also say that considering DA 2 was not that huge in content and only had a year and a half of works, it was probably not as expensive to make as MEA. Which means it did not need to sell that many copies to be profitable and therefore assure a future to the franchise, MEA on the other hand, when you consider the forstbite engine, the amounts of dialogue, the size of the content that this game have. It is going to need much more sales to recup the budget. So if it is not as profitable as EA hopes, I don't see the franchise continuing. We have seen that happen before with other licences. Now don't get me wrong, that is not something I hope. Mass effect is my favorite franchise of all time (and yes that includes the 3) but I am realistick about it and I am not going to say that the mass effect franchise will always continue whatever happens due to the sales of MEA. I am confident it will sell enough because that is mass effect after all, but is failure or dissapointment coudl totally mean the end of the franchise not bringing shepard back. like some people say. Yeah could be... It could still get sequels, even if the whole game turns out like DA2. I mean Final Fantasy XIII was an awful and dissapointing game, even criticized by the japanese fans(I think the reviewers kinda kissed it up tough, all around), and it got 2 sequels inside its on world (which were just as bad if not worse) and the franchise still continues. But then again Square Enix is not EA/Bioware... I still wouldnt compare this game to FF XIII from what ive seen, theyre not even in the same league. Final fantasy for me is dead after all the dissapointing games theyve brought after number 10(and no im not intrested in the fucking mmo), and as a former fan its heartbreaking to say. I just really hope, im praying it doesnt happen with this series. Where do i go then for my space opera needs, with aliens and planets to explore huh?
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