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Post by The Loyal Nub on Mar 17, 2017 20:54:29 GMT
Meh, Bioware bashing is all the rage. And are these the same critics that gave FO4 9 out 10's? Yeah, they're credible. I'll still take the worst Bio has produced to the best Bethesda has done. I bought it just cause so many friends had raved about it over the years. God the whole damn thing was a boring slog through fetch quest after fetch quest in an un-interesting world. But yeah I remember the critics just raved over it including Saint Rock of Paper and Shotgun! It seriously lowered my hopes for another Elder Scrolls game.
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Post by traks on Mar 17, 2017 20:54:45 GMT
My guess would be very low odds for panic. The only constant criticisms so far have been the CC, facial animations and the save system, while story, characters, visuals, music and combat have gotten praise. So for now it looks likely, that the game will be good.
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Post by helios969 on Mar 17, 2017 20:55:58 GMT
Meh, Bioware bashing is all the rage. And are these the same critics that gave FO4 9 out 10's? Yeah, they're credible. I'll still take the worst Bio has produced to the best Bethesda has done. To be fair, with FO4 at the very least we all knew from the beginning that the modding scene was going to be massive, that counts for something, both when it comes to the potential longevity of the game, and the quality. No, I understand the significance of the modding community and Bethesda's products. And if I were into modding I'd probably be more into their stuff. But they release products 10x more buggy at release and everyone is just kosher with modders making up for their laziness, yet Bio is expected to produce a bug free game with a similar scope to FO and Skyrim while maintaining an engaging story and interesting characters. A bit of a double standard if you ask me. Some of the criticisms are valid, but a lot of it is just nitpicking by people with agendas.
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Post by llandwynwyn on Mar 17, 2017 21:01:19 GMT
Also, I fucking hate to defend TW. I'd rather be arguing in BW's favor, like, I played TW3 once and barely remember that scene but after rewatching I have to. So here we go.
Geralt's face expression was not the focus on the scene. The music, ambiance and lighting helped set the mood, they were <i>well utilized</i> tools to enhance the player empathy to what was happening inside Geralt. The perceived loss of his daughter. From him, they used <i>nuanced</i> expressions on his face, lower corner of mouth and eyebrows, that weren't over animated. Then they utilize his body as form of expression, touching her, shaking. A well executed scene, not the best of the world but well done nonetheless.
Don't take from them what they do right. Just don't.
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Post by adasirin on Mar 17, 2017 21:03:57 GMT
To be fair, with FO4 at the very least we all knew from the beginning that the modding scene was going to be massive, that counts for something, both when it comes to the potential longevity of the game, and the quality. No, I understand the significance of the modding community and Bethesda's products. And if I were into modding I'd probably be more into their stuff. But they release products 10x more buggy at release and everyone is just kosher with modders making up for their laziness, yet Bio is expected to produce a bug free game with a similar scope to FO and Skyrim while maintaining an engaging story and interesting characters. A bit of a double standard if you ask me. Some of the criticisms are valid, but a lot of it is just nitpicking by people with agendas. Sorry, but this isn't really true. Bethesda get a huge amount of criticism about their buggy games. FO4 received a lot of criticism on release, and still does. It actually received a lot of criticism prior to release too, mostly about still using the same dated engine, having the same janky animations as always, the dated graphics, etc. Go look at the Steam reviews, they're pretty mixed. The internet in general was not too kind to FO4 (and a lot of the criticisms were valid, as they are here with ME:A). And I say this as a fan of (modded) Bethesda games in general.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 17, 2017 21:15:02 GMT
I doubt they're panicking. They probably have at least good enough initial sales (pre-orders and projections).
But I hope they're very concerned about support for the future. I think its a bigger deal if they don't get sales for SP DLC, active players and buyers for MP. This may cut off support for more content and updates, and at worst, cut off any bigger future for the Mass Effect series. It seems clear that there are intentions to do 1+ more games in a larger 'arc' of sorts, but if people aren't buying the idea (even if liking much of the initial product), the pursestrings at EA may not as well.
They need to turn something around. But panic? No.. I don't see that as likely.
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Post by ravenous on Mar 17, 2017 21:19:07 GMT
panicking no I don't think they are, but I am sure they are concerned and realise that people are not happy with animations etc and will have to do something about it like patches and probably lots of patches and updates - course doesn't matter to me I will still play it to the ground like I did the trilogy
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Mar 17, 2017 21:22:57 GMT
because ME is a known quantity and has MUCH better chances than a new IP (which is proven by tue industry's numbers) and the best way to make an IP like ME sell is to bring back the beloved old protagonist in less you have a overly picky fanbase which breaks anytime anything happens, doesn't happen, or could happen. my guess if the do anything with shepar,d fanbase will build way too much hype and it'll go like the me 3 ending, nothing they do or even could do would be good enough. oh..woe is us at Bioware, nothing we will fo will be enough to please the fanbase It is a bullshit excuse if you ask me
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Mar 17, 2017 21:28:40 GMT
because ME is a known quantity and has MUCH better chances than a new IP (which is proven by tue industry's numbers) and the best way to make an IP like ME sell is to bring back the beloved old protagonist Well if it is that of a known quantity, MEA would have sold enough to meet EA exceptation. If it does not, It will just tell them that the ME franchise is not enough profitable and they can just put bioware on an other franchise. Any other mass effect project game would be risky for them and no more of a sure franchise. Their money is not forced to go to a new Ip, How about putting more of their ressources of bioware on dragon age 4, or make a star wars rpg. None of them are new IP, they rely on brand name that people knows, they can sell a lot of copies as shown by previous game of the franchise. So yeah you seem to think that EA will absolutely make a Mass effect game whatever happens, sorry to tell you but that is certainly not sure. EA have cancelled franchise in the past, and that can totally happen again if MEA is not as much of a sucess as they hope. not with the reviews being more and more lukewarm (mind you...it might end up scoring really high you never know). And sure EA COULD spend money on other known quantities and existing franchises but why do that when all they have to do, according to the numbers, is simply to redirect Bioware? DA2 got it's share of shitty reviews, did not sell as well as hoped AND BW's employees as well as other people working on the project (like the OST composer) said it was an utter rush job....but we got DAI did we not? And was Bioware not redirected on that one as well (in different ways and with different goals of course)?
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Mar 17, 2017 21:43:18 GMT
My guess would be very low odds for panic. The only constant criticisms so far have been the CC, facial animations and the save system, while story, characters, visuals, music and combat have gotten praise. So for now it looks likely, that the game will be good. While I've been avoiding too many spoilers* and too many reviews**, what HAS been getting slammed has actually made me happy. I can get over the CC being dumb. I can deal with shitty facial animations -- I'm a veteran of ME1's ANGRY FACE WRINKES***. The save system sounds like an actual problem, but I guess I'll just have to try really hard to not die or pick a dumb dialogue option. The stuff that isn't getting yelled at, or is in some cases getting praised, are the things I do care about. So I'm not regretting my preorder, and I hope many fine people (including yours truly) purchase and enjoy Mass Effect: Andromeda. And there's no panic over at Montreal and everyone's happy including the fans... And we all get ice cream, or gelato, or whatever the hell vegans sub in the place of ice cream if needed. *They cause cavities! **I have come to suspect that most reviewers don't have the same tastes as I do after Skyrim, which I tried REALLY hard to like but couldn't even bring myself to care about remotely *** Though I really hope the most offensive animations/modelling gets cleaned up, cause... I mean, yeah, that's vexing for a visual art form.
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Post by adasirin on Mar 17, 2017 21:55:53 GMT
This is DA2 all over again, except I genuinely believe DA2 didn't deserve half of what it got. Also, it's funny people talking about TW3's animation. Because DA2 had superior facial animation* compared to TW2 and nobody cared back then. I'm glad a small number of people complained and CDPR was wise enough to listen to them, saw their game flaws and improved on them; instead of doing what BW/EA/the fanatics do, and dismiss all criticism. After all, it has always been this bad right guys????? Nope. * DA2> MEA in as well. This is pathetic, bioware. On the whole TW3 did have moments of not great facial animations believe it or not. Geralt looked pretty good but some of the random characters didn't. ANY 100+ hour game with such a large amount of quest-related NPC's and so much dialogue is going to have slightly lazy/repetitive animations for lesser characters. It would be logistically impossible to give every single NPC who has even a single line of dialogue the same amount of love and care you give primary characters. But the Witcher 3 had an impressively high standard across the board, given the size and scope of the game. Even at their worst, the animations are pretty good. They're never distractingly bad. Some random inkeep you speak to once in the entire game still has perfectly passable animations. I challenge you (or anyone else) to name another game of a similar scope and with a similar number of NPCs with dialogue cutscenes where the overall standard is as high.
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Post by malgus on Mar 17, 2017 22:03:07 GMT
Well if it is that of a known quantity, MEA would have sold enough to meet EA exceptation. If it does not, It will just tell them that the ME franchise is not enough profitable and they can just put bioware on an other franchise. Any other mass effect project game would be risky for them and no more of a sure franchise. Their money is not forced to go to a new Ip, How about putting more of their ressources of bioware on dragon age 4, or make a star wars rpg. None of them are new IP, they rely on brand name that people knows, they can sell a lot of copies as shown by previous game of the franchise. So yeah you seem to think that EA will absolutely make a Mass effect game whatever happens, sorry to tell you but that is certainly not sure. EA have cancelled franchise in the past, and that can totally happen again if MEA is not as much of a sucess as they hope. not with the reviews being more and more lukewarm (mind you...it might end up scoring really high you never know). And sure EA COULD spend money on other known quantities and existing franchises but why do that when all they have to do, according to the numbers, is simply to redirect Bioware? DA2 got it's share of shitty reviews, did not sell as well as hoped AND BW's employees as well as other people working on the project (like the OST composer) said it was an utter rush job....but we got DAI did we not? And was Bioware not redirected on that one as well (in different ways and with different goals of course)? First of all, the DA 2 reviews were good with major sites, it was only a problem with gamers. So it was not as bad reviewed as you seem to think it is. Second of all, DA 2 sales as of now are of 2.57 million and that is JUST the physical copy, there is way more with digital sales. Of course 2.57 million might seem bad until you take into account that it was MUCH cheaper to make, with tons of reused environments, a very small city, and only a year and a half of development. Which means that it had less works into it, which means less ressources invested and of course less money to do with sales until it is profitable. No problem with having lesser sales when it was not as expensive. So where did you see that DA 2 was dissapointing for EA? I have not seen the part where they were, at least not to the point of refusing to finance a sequel.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 17, 2017 22:46:30 GMT
Well, EA did abandon the strategy of making games faster and cheaper. But that's a problem with the strategy rather than DA2 itself.
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Post by taritu on Mar 17, 2017 22:47:24 GMT
DA2 has real issues, but I have more fond memories of it than I do DA:I, mostly because it knew the story it wanted to tell and told it, and because goddamn, Sarcastic Femhawke was the best Bioware protag ever. So appropriate to such a depressing story. Everything goes wrong for Hawke, in effect, and cracking wise is the only way to deal. I would have 100% rather had Hawke as protag in DA:I than the flavorless Inquisitor.
Are they dead?
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OMG, so inappropriate, so funny.
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Post by pantherdane on Mar 17, 2017 22:51:48 GMT
To be fair, with FO4 at the very least we all knew from the beginning that the modding scene was going to be massive, that counts for something, both when it comes to the potential longevity of the game, and the quality. No, I understand the significance of the modding community and Bethesda's products. And if I were into modding I'd probably be more into their stuff. But they release products 10x more buggy at release and everyone is just kosher with modders making up for their laziness, yet Bio is expected to produce a bug free game with a similar scope to FO and Skyrim while maintaining an engaging story and interesting characters. A bit of a double standard if you ask me. Some of the criticisms are valid, but a lot of it is just nitpicking by people with agendas. Fallout and Skyrim had all kinds of fans, but the games are buggy and boring too. I was told not to buy Skyrim until the new updated graphics edition and to still do quests in a certain order due to bugs that were never fixed. I dont understand the standards that some developers are held to while others are forgiven and praised for continual buggy software. BTW, when the modders have to fix most bugs, then the devs are slacking- see the double standard?
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Post by abedsbrother on Mar 17, 2017 22:56:18 GMT
No, I understand the significance of the modding community and Bethesda's products. And if I were into modding I'd probably be more into their stuff. But they release products 10x more buggy at release and everyone is just kosher with modders making up for their laziness, yet Bio is expected to produce a bug free game with a similar scope to FO and Skyrim while maintaining an engaging story and interesting characters. A bit of a double standard if you ask me. Some of the criticisms are valid, but a lot of it is just nitpicking by people with agendas. Fallout and Skyrim had all kinds of fans, but the games are buggy and boring too. I was told not to buy Skyrim until the new updated graphics edition and to still do quests in a certain order due to bugs that were never fixed. I dont understand the standards that some developers are held to while others are forgiven and praised for continual buggy software. BTW, when the modders have to fix most bugs, then the devs are slacking- see the double standard? Is modding Frostbyte actually a thing? Not that the ability to mod a game is an excuse, but at least in Skyrim determined users can forget the devs and fix the game themselves.
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Post by Parachroma on Mar 17, 2017 22:58:20 GMT
It doesn't matter how great the game is. It only matters in terms of $ales and profit. The bottom line always dictates success; the rest is just lip service.
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Post by adasirin on Mar 17, 2017 23:06:17 GMT
Are they dead? "Well, if they aren't, there are boneless women flopping around Kirkwall." My favourite BioWare line ever.
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Post by tziwen on Mar 17, 2017 23:24:47 GMT
Eeesh I don't want to be in their shoes. This is really unprecedented for a Bioware game to be getting a lot of heat by both players AND critics, before the game is even released. News of the game being a mess is spreading on the internet. While I'm sure plenty of people will like it (hell maybe I will), there seems to be a ton of people who don't so far, and that includes critics. I have to wonder what tomorrow is going to be like for them. Mac Walters is probably having PTSD flashbacks of the ME3 ending debacle. But this time it's their whole game. Hey Dove... We're talking about a studio that handle the pressure on ME3 and didn't flinched. I may had that nowadays whatever reviews go good or bad people are buying games. Mass Effect brand is carrying that game. That being said: Lots of the bad press is not ddeserved at all: Characters not that pretty and bugs on an old build? Big deal! People feel so clever when they hate on something and their life is so empty they got nothing else to do. Vicious circle here.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 17, 2017 23:40:05 GMT
Talked to my buddy who used to work at the Edmonton studio about the game. Said they spent the last 2 years or so working on the game in some capacity there.
Said he let his contract expire because he knew in last summer there was no way it would be ready at launch. Texting him now and he said most of the programmers were like "why is it so generic" and they were told it wasn't and to stop complaining
Also said "People are going to hate the new save system. Why are we even doing it?" and basically told to just do their job.
What a studio!
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Post by tziwen on Mar 17, 2017 23:42:08 GMT
There were similar issues with Omega DLC. Terrible writing (both Omega and MEA have an asari crashing an escape pod without any plan by the way), infamous glitches. I had doubts when they told us it was the same team responsible for what was "ME4". This isn't an "old build". Ian said MEA early access has the "day 1 patch": this is the same game that will be released in four days. I think i remember you from the old BioWare forum. ii guess the old happy days are over. (btw DA:1 and DA2 both have heroes fleeiing from the plague and the games aren't the same at all ^^) Now they said we'll have a patch for CC day 1, which isn't included at this moment. Wanna give BS to ME:A? Sure i can't help it but most of people that have "major issues" with the game are people still mad for ME3 ending and/or for Shepard retirement. Can we move forward and just say humans look bad compared to aliens andd acknowlege it has prolly the best landscape ever? (at least in this franchise)
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Post by adasirin on Mar 17, 2017 23:45:08 GMT
There were similar issues with Omega DLC. Terrible writing (both Omega and MEA have an asari crashing an escape pod without any plan by the way), infamous glitches. I had doubts when they told us it was the same team responsible for what was "ME4". This isn't an "old build". Ian said MEA early access has the "day 1 patch": this is the same game that will be released in four days. Now they said we'll have a patch for CC day 1, which isn't included at this moment. Where did they say that? All I've seen lately is them saying they're "looking at options" and "investigating". The EA Access demo already includes the Day 1 patch.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 17, 2017 23:47:49 GMT
Now they said we'll have a patch for CC day 1, which isn't included at this moment. Where did they say that? All I've seen lately is them saying they're "looking at options" and "investigating". The EA Access demo already includes the Day 1 patch. I haven't seen that either. I've just seen that from people who are trying to act like the game in its current state isn't a joke at launch in 2017.
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Post by tziwen on Mar 17, 2017 23:48:44 GMT
Now they said we'll have a patch for CC day 1, which isn't included at this moment. Where did they say that? All I've seen lately is them saying they're "looking at options" and "investigating". The EA Access demo already includes the Day 1 patch. Mike Gamble stated they're looking forward to improve it but not day 1. My mistake i red too quickly. I apology for that mistake but still they're looking into it.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 17, 2017 23:52:51 GMT
Too little too late, all these stupid delights have stupid ends.
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