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Post by adasirin on Mar 19, 2017 2:10:46 GMT
I actually forgot all about the romances in Skyrim. And I have 1000+ hours in that game, which I guess goes to show just how "memorable" they are. I wish it was as simple irl. ''Oh you have a necklace! Let's Marry!'' Hahaha, the Amulet of Mara, right? I think I tried the Skyrim-marriage thing once and upon realising how stupid it was vowed to never submit myself to that silliness again.
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Post by kaind on Mar 19, 2017 2:12:14 GMT
It was interesting til it started to get ranty and over the top, as an early comment pointed out you can throw just as much criticism at DA. I never cared that certain things are aimed at straight people, they are the vast majority of the planet. I just want people to see that LGBT+ content does not ruin a game and it doesn't mean "straight male players" won't buy it too. If you are looking at western sales then yeah, if you are looking at international sales then it actually might. There is a huge Overwatch fanbase in Russia and they have some pro-teams in the scene, but Blizzard had to censor their comics that had gay characters in them because of laws in Russia. That's just one example.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 19, 2017 2:16:13 GMT
It was interesting til it started to get ranty and over the top, as an early comment pointed out you can throw just as much criticism at DA. I never cared that certain things are aimed at straight people, they are the vast majority of the planet. I just want people to see that LGBT+ content does not ruin a game and it doesn't mean "straight male players" won't buy it too. If you are looking at western sales then yeah, if you are looking at international sales then it actually might. There is a huge Overwatch fanbase in Russia and they have some pro-teams in the scene, but Blizzard had to censor their comics that had gay characters in them because of laws in Russia. That's just one example. True and that's depressing but the same could be said for a lot of features in western video games that are seen as unacceptable in other countries, like sexual content for example.
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Post by kaind on Mar 19, 2017 2:20:57 GMT
True and that's depressing but the same could be said for a lot of features in western video games that are seen as unacceptable in other countries, like sexual content for example. Yeah, I guess. I mean it's always a mathematical formula for the company between causing the least controversy and making the most profit, they will take actions to accomplish their best predicted results.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Mar 19, 2017 2:21:30 GMT
Very few people believe that, by itself LGBT content ruins a game. However, the addition of it doesn't make the game good, either. A lot of writers do not have the skill to pull it off. I think a lot of the time the issue is that sexuality and gender identity is a personal thing that doesn't necessarily come up. If it's there there has to be a reason for it being there in the first place, a romance arc is one of those reasons. Tho something like Krem being trans I felt was not addressed well, the conversation just came off as cringey. The character was great but that conversation was just appalling. If they couldn't think of a good way of bringing it up they shouldn't have brought it up at all.
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Post by kaind on Mar 19, 2017 2:25:05 GMT
If they couldn't think of a good way of bringing it up they shouldn't have brought it up at all. There is no ''good'' way to bring it up, all those understandings are extremely subjective and open to interpretation.
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Post by ralph2449 on Mar 19, 2017 2:50:40 GMT
Pretty accurate.
The thing is they do seem to make gay scenes in the game files yet later on decide to not use them, i wonder why that decision is made
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Post by midasear on Mar 19, 2017 2:59:33 GMT
Only the Sith deal in absolutes...
...Said the guy who then went on to mislead his next disciple repeatedly with a series of half-truths, and justify doing so by claiming "Everything I said was true, taken from a certain point of view." Fuck you, Obi-Wan. Fuck You. Objective reality exists independent of viewpoint. Intentionally leaving things out of your description of that reality with an intent to mislead is deception. You're not a philosopher. You're just a liar! LIAR I SAY! Ahem. Sorry. Old fanboi wound induced from severe disillusionment suddenly flared up. If I live long enough, I'll wind up ranting about how cheap the Renegade Interrupt mechanic was. Since finishing Dragon Age 2 (Never again!) I've been of the opinion Bioware (and other devlopers, too) would be better off just opening up all romance options to everybody. I'll admit it grated on me at first, since it seemed unrealistic that every available romance option would just happen to have the right sexual orientation to be interested in whatever sort of Hawke I happened to feel like playing. It was BLATANT PANDERING! Then it occurred to me that I was worried about realism in a game with Spellcasters, Dragons, Demons, Magic Mirrors, Ancient Elven spirits/goods, and idiot-savant enchanters. And that pandering to the player's fantasies was sort of what RPGs are all about. Hell, its sort of what all video games are about. Why not pander to literally everyone's romantic fantasies, too? (too the extent feasible within budget, anyway. I don't expect my current fetish for Space Pants Dwarves to ever be pandered to.) As for questioning whether the inclusion of "old" people would improve sales & story quality, this AARP member has only this to say: Fuck you! (That was joke)
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Post by Lorn on Mar 19, 2017 3:23:37 GMT
So depending on geography, the percentage of gays is between 2%-11% of the population (or thereabouts). When it comes to consumers of video games, the percentages are likely the same, perhaps slightly higher. The representation in video games these days when it comes to gay romance and similar seems to go above 2%-10% in comparison to similar content aimed at straight consumers. So what is the complaint about exactly? I've never got the percentage thing. From various discussions in the gaming sites of the internet as near as I can tell it should always be applied to sexual orientation, but must be actively avoided when considering gender, ethnicity, age or disability. It has an oddly specific scope. I want to be a badass in a wheel chair like Ironside! There aren't really many games out there that have romance and relationships aside from BW. I think you are being generous. Which company besides Bioware and Obsidian does include romance and relationships? Cuz I can't remember any from the top of my head right now. The only Obsidian game that included any sort of romance was Alpha Protocol, their latest games have all run away from the subject. In Tyranny, they said that they would have, but they felt that they wouldn't have been able to do it well, so they didn't do it. I think you are being generous. Which company besides Bioware and Obsidian does include romance and relationships? Cuz I can't remember any from the top of my head right now. Fallout 4 had romances with followers, but it was implemented in a pretty lazy and minimal way. So Bethesda could claim how "inclusive" they are.
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Post by kaind on Mar 19, 2017 3:29:07 GMT
The only Obsidian game that included any sort of romance was Alpha Protocol Neverwinter Nights 2, Kotor 2. their latest games have all run away from the subject Yes.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 19, 2017 3:39:43 GMT
The only Obsidian game that included any sort of romance was Alpha Protocol Neverwinter Nights 2, Kotor 2. their latest games have all run away from the subject Yes. Only if you get the patches that restore the cut content, otherwise they were nonexistent.
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Post by kaind on Mar 19, 2017 3:44:15 GMT
Neverwinter Nights 2, Kotor 2. Yes. Only if you get the patches that restore the cut content, otherwise they were nonexistent. I guess I ninja'd the cut content somehow, cuz I don't remember downloading it, but the romance was in the game.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2017 4:07:56 GMT
Very few people believe that, by itself LGBT content ruins a game. However, the addition of it doesn't make the game good, either. A lot of writers do not have the skill to pull it off. You mean LGBT content is different from other kinds of content? The only difference I've noticed is that some players act like idiots about it.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2017 4:13:14 GMT
Neverwinter Nights 2, Kotor 2. Yes. Only if you get the patches that restore the cut content, otherwise they were nonexistent. I don't check you on this. Can you explain what you're talking about? Go ahead and get spoilery; those games are old enough.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 19, 2017 11:25:31 GMT
Very few people believe that, by itself LGBT content ruins a game. However, the addition of it doesn't make the game good, either. A lot of writers do not have the skill to pull it off. You mean LGBT content is different from other kinds of content? The only difference I've noticed is that some players act like idiots about it. Sounds like you're trying to say any time there's LGBT content, people who don't like it are idiots.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 19, 2017 11:56:18 GMT
You mean LGBT content is different from other kinds of content? The only difference I've noticed is that some players act like idiots about it. Sounds like you're trying to say any time there's LGBT content, people who don't like it are idiots. If the reason they don't like it is because it's "LGBT content" then yes...they are idiots. Fuck all those "shoved down our throats" comments.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 12:00:44 GMT
I don't know why people think that if you're a straight white male, that means you won't enjoy a Dorian romance, or a lesbian Sera romance? I thought we were over the era when people were so insecure of their sexuality that they couldn't stomach LGBT content in their game...
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Post by n7rhysj on Mar 19, 2017 12:03:38 GMT
The whole point is there is choice if you dont like a romance dont do it
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Post by Kian on Mar 19, 2017 12:13:24 GMT
So depending on geography, the percentage of gays is between 2%-11% of the population (or thereabouts). When it comes to consumers of video games, the percentages are likely the same, perhaps slightly higher. The representation in video games these days when it comes to gay romance and similar seems to go above 2%-10% in comparison to similar content aimed at straight consumers. So what is the complaint about exactly? "depending on geography"... I dunno whether I should be impressed by the capacity to observe differences, although it's obvious you can't comprehend the reason behind them as you attribute it to "geography", or laughing myself into the next week for such a simplistic world view .
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Post by Kian on Mar 19, 2017 12:18:20 GMT
I don't know why people think that if you're a straight white male, that means you won't enjoy a Dorian romance, or a lesbian Sera romance? I thought we were over the era when people were so insecure of their sexuality that they couldn't stomach LGBT content in their game... Well your sentiment is admirable, but go and read the reddit gamers comments, watch the plethora of youtube vids talking about how "gays are being shoved down their throat" because of characters like Steve, and look into the general hysteria that was Anders kinda-sorta-maybe-possibly flirted with a male player without promt... And so on, there are many other examples. We are nowhere near over that era lol. Homophobia and precious entitled snowflakes who panic if another guy barely looks at them are very real things.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 12:30:53 GMT
Well your sentiment is admirable, but go and read the reddit gamers comments, watch the plethora of youtube vids talking about how "gays are being shoved down their throat" LOL To those I say: your straight sexual relations are shoved down our throats ALL THE TIME! Every smiling couple from a billboard, every hetero game hero like Witcher that fucks every woman around, every Asari dancing in tights... Gay agenda isn't shoved down straight peoples' throats, it's STRAIGHT sexuality which is shoved into every day lives. So you can deal with a little flirting and saying "no", much like straight women do all the time. Homophobia isn't fear of gay people, it is fear that gay people will treat you like you treat women.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 12:42:34 GMT
... Homophobia isn't fear of gay people, it is fear that gay people will treat you like you treat women.I don't know who you are talking to here, but I try to treat the people I know and meet with a modicum of respect, be they women or men.
I wasn't talking to anyone specifically. It's a saying - if someone is homophobic, it's a reflection of how that person treats women.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 12:50:24 GMT
I wasn't talking to anyone specifically. It's a saying - if someone is homophobic, it's a reflection of how that person treats women. And who exactly are you calling homophobic? Anyone that disagrees with you on something related to "representation"? What? Dude chill with the defensiveness. I didn't quote you or was talking to you. I was very clear in my post of whom I was speaking (people not even on these forums so far as I know). If you think I was referring to you, you'd have to ask yourself why that is, as I clearly didn't even hint at you (unless you think those things of yourself).
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Post by isaidlunch on Mar 19, 2017 12:53:05 GMT
I can't blame people for disliking how Anders was handled, depending on your previous dialogue options there's a possibility that you're forced into picking a homophobic dialogue option to reject his advances. Honestly, it seemed like the writer wanted to cause trouble.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 13:17:38 GMT
What? Dude chill with the defensiveness. I didn't quote you or was talking to you. I was very clear in my post of whom I was speaking (people not even on these forums so far as I know). If you think I was referring to you, you'd have to ask yourself why that is, as I clearly didn't even hint at you (unless you think those things of yourself). Classic.
You talk in general about homophobia in a thread discussing "representation", and then you act surprised when people assume you meant them, and imply that if they make this assumption it must be because it's true?...
Some real intellectual dishonesty here...
The only dishonesty here is when you ignore what I quoted. I commented very specifically about homophobes on reddit complaining that homosexuality is shoved down their throats. The only thing your comments make me think is that you are active on reddit, and that is all your doing. So assuming you are not one of those people I wrote about, I suggest you change the subject. You're only making yourself seem suspicious.
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