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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 19, 2017 13:18:30 GMT
Citation with decently researched figures required. Bioware revealed the stats themselves for both ME2 and ME3. 80% in ME2 played Male Shepard, 82% in ME3 -- and even if you account for female players rolling a Sheploo, the number disparity puts male players as the majority when it comes to the people playing Mass Effect. A poll by PCGamer found that the four most popular romance options were all females, with only one being bisexual: Liara, Miranda, Tali and Ashley. Hell, Garrus was beaten out by Kelly Chambers; though if it's any consolation, PCGamer also rated Garrus the most popular squadmate (he's damn near tied with Liara officially for usage). I mean, a lot of it's supposition and from different sources, but there's no easy way to track these things, at least not with Bioware's lips sealed. Hard to say usage means much though. You could replace the names Liara and Garrus, with the words Primer and Detonator in ME3. And of course Chambers beats Garrus. She's a redhead.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 13:28:39 GMT
Making myself seem suspicious indeed... Call the thoughts police, quick. Yeah, it's worth noting that while you are free to think and say what you want, freedom of speech does not protect one from the consequences of those words. The fact someone (anyone, really) can spout homophobic nonesense doesn't mean he won't get called out for his bullshit (again, speaking generally, not at anyone specifically).
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Post by ama93 on Mar 19, 2017 13:36:21 GMT
I was not content with Kaidan MM romance. It felt cheap and like an after thought meant to appease us. Not only that, but it was such a pathetic trope I almost died at the thought. "Closeted bisexual reveals his feelings for his best friend" .
I was like, whatever and just rolled my eye's because the Cortez romance was worse and just completely unremarkable.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 13:57:13 GMT
The only reason it went there is because you felt the need to defend yourself even though you were never even mentioned As for the arguments - I think percentagewise, LGBT are represented enough in Dragon Age. ME still leaves something to be desired.
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Post by midasear on Mar 19, 2017 14:48:18 GMT
Which is a shame, because now even the actual racists/homophobes only need to laugh in your face when you call them that.
I'm not _completely_ sure, but I suspect they'd be laughing in their target's face anyway. Its kind of one of their things, isn't it?
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 19, 2017 14:51:05 GMT
Sounds like you're trying to say any time there's LGBT content, people who don't like it are idiots. If the reason they don't like it is because it's "LGBT content" then yes...they are idiots. Fuck all those "shoved down our throats" comments. And what of people who whine that there isn't enough gay content simply because it is absent? Are they idiots?
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 14:57:14 GMT
The only reason it went there is because you felt the need to defend yourself even though you were never even mentioned This type of automatic accusation had no place in this specific thread if it had nothing to do with a post in this specific thread. You are, of course, mistaken and misleading yet again While not aimed at a specific PERSON, it is valid against the group to which I was referring, quoting someone before me who mentioned homophobic rants on reddit, which is indeed on topic for this thread and is not an "automatic accusation," just an honest one. Let me give you a nickle's worth of free advice - the more you seem to take it personally, the more you make yourself seem associated with that group, whether you actually are or aren't. Just accept that you shouldn't have commented on it as personally as you did in the first place and change the subject, because you are now simply defending homophobes on reddit for no apparent reason.
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Post by Gecko on Mar 19, 2017 15:01:38 GMT
This type of automatic accusation had no place in this specific thread if it had nothing to do with a post in this specific thread. You are, of course, mistaken and misleading yet again While not aimed at a specific PERSON, it is valid against the group to which I was referring, quoting someone before me who mentioned homophobic rants on reddit, which is indeed on topic for this thread and is not an "automatic accusation," just an honest one. Let me give you a nickle's worth of free advice - the more you seem to take it personally, the more you make yourself seem associated with that group, whether you actually are or aren't. Just accept that you shouldn't have commented on it as personally as you did in the first place and change the subject, because you are now simply defending homophobes on reddit for no apparent reason. Ok.... You have both debated this argument to death. If you would like to discuss this matter further please do so via PM.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 19, 2017 15:14:04 GMT
If the reason they don't like it is because it's "LGBT content" then yes...they are idiots. Fuck all those "shoved down our throats" comments. And what of people who whine that there isn't enough gay content simply because it is absent? Are they idiots? Not the same thing. "Whining" as you put it because there isn't any gay content in, for example Mass Effect, is pretty valid. Especially when you consider how you can easily unlock a fully voiced romance with the Virmire Survivor in Mass Effect 1. Or when you look how the relationship progression between Shepard and their crew doesn't have any differences until you hit the Gendergated content. This is especially aggravating with Tali I found.
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Post by fenris on Mar 19, 2017 15:19:43 GMT
Wow. Could you make your post any more condescending? I'm honestly impressed.
I don't give a shit about what you think about me, and your rather pitiful attempts to lump me with a group I don't even know are laughable, just as your eagerness to engage in guilt by association shows the weakness of your arguments. I wasn't "defending" anyone on reddit, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be defending. You made your post here, not on reddit. I could make it more condescending, yes, I just chose not to As for reddit - if you didn't even know what you were commenting on, why comment in the first place? In any event, my argument remains as it is - MET had a lack of homosexual characters. Straight relationships are "shoved down our throats" much more than gay ones are, both in video games and in the real world. As for the numbers - I don't know where you brought them from, but numbers regarding the amount of LGBT people will always suffer from the obvious problem - since homosexuality is STILL not accepted in many places, even western places, you can never know how many people would be gay/bi if it was more acceptable, how many live in hiding. My guess is that if it was more socially acceptable, you'd see a lot more men willing to experiment with men, maybe even being completely bisexual. I guess we'll never know.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2017 15:22:45 GMT
You mean LGBT content is different from other kinds of content? The only difference I've noticed is that some players act like idiots about it. Sounds like you're trying to say any time there's LGBT content, people who don't like it are idiots. Not at all. I'm saying that people hold LGBT content to different standards than other content. "Idiots" was me being nice to them; the other reasons for doing this are worse. Your position sounded to me like LGBT content is more difficult than other content. Hence, different. What did I misread?
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Post by Gecko on Mar 19, 2017 15:23:00 GMT
Wow. Could you make your post any more condescending? I'm honestly impressed.
I don't give a shit about what you think about me, and your rather pitiful attempts to lump me with a group I don't even know are laughable, just as your eagerness to engage in guilt by association shows the weakness of your arguments. I wasn't "defending" anyone on reddit, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be defending. You made your post here, not on reddit. I could make it more condescending, yes, I just chose not to As for reddit - if you didn't even know what you were commenting on, why comment in the first place? In any event, my argument remains as it is - MET had a lack of homosexual characters. Straight relationships are "shoved down our throats" much more than gay ones are, both in video games and in the real world. As for the numbers - I don't know where you brought them from, but numbers regarding the amount of LGBT people will always suffer from the obvious problem - since homosexuality is STILL not accepted in many places, even western places, you can never know how many people would be gay/bi if it was more acceptable, how many live in hiding. My guess is that if it was more socially acceptable, you'd see a lot more men willing to experiment with men, maybe even being completely bisexual. I guess we'll never know. I said to drop this argument or take it to PM.
I hope I have made my request very clear this time.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 19, 2017 15:29:07 GMT
Well your sentiment is admirable, but go and read the reddit gamers comments, watch the plethora of youtube vids talking about how "gays are being shoved down their throat" LOL To those I say: your straight sexual relations are shoved down our throats ALL THE TIME! Every smiling couple from a billboard, every hetero game hero like Witcher that fucks every woman around, every Asari dancing in tights... Gay agenda isn't shoved down straight peoples' throats, it's STRAIGHT sexuality which is shoved into every day lives. So you can deal with a little flirting and saying "no", much like straight women do all the time. Homophobia isn't fear of gay people, it is fear that gay people will treat you like you treat women. Wait what? Since when did the definition of Homophobia change? Oh wait, it didn't. It still means fear of gay people. Problem solved moving on.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 19, 2017 15:36:00 GMT
And what of people who whine that there isn't enough gay content simply because it is absent? Are they idiots? Not the same thing. "Whining" as you put it because there isn't any gay content in, for example Mass Effect, is pretty valid. Especially when you consider how you can easily unlock a fully voiced romance with the Virmire Survivor in Mass Effect 1. Or when you look how the relationship progression between Shepard and their crew doesn't have any differences until you hit the Gendergated content. This is especially aggravating with Tali I found. This comes off as very hypocritical. Straight people are automatically bad (use whatever word you wish) if they mention gay content, but when gay people mention straight, it's a-okay.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 19, 2017 15:37:48 GMT
Sounds like you're trying to say any time there's LGBT content, people who don't like it are idiots. Not at all. I'm saying that people hold LGBT content to different standards than other content. "Idiots" was me being nice to them; the other reasons for doing this are worse. Your position sounded to me like LGBT content is more difficult than other content. Hence, different. What did I misread? Are you crazy? People judge the content by what was in it. Look at how many people complained about the Jacob incident. That had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with, well, how bad it was. I don't think it is difficult, more or less, than straight content. I do think (and this is true for straight content) that you have be good at incorporating it if you want to do it. As we saw with Dorian, they don't really do it well.
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Post by midasear on Mar 19, 2017 15:38:46 GMT
The point is that now they can legitimately do it, seeing as these things get thrown at practically anyone with a different political opinion than the "progressive" left.
I mean for example, what are you going to call an actual Nazi if you call anyone even slightly to the right of center a "Nazi"? Did no one hear about "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?
Uhhhh.....Look, I know I'm getting old, and that this is making me a little slow, but I'm having trouble following the logic in that first sentence. So if the " 'progressive' left decides to mislabel me as a Nazi because I refused to vote for Hillary Clinton, that means REAL Nazis get to "legitimately" reject that label? And didn't the "Boy who cried Wolf" do his schtick for fun? I mean, he did not actually have a problem telling real wolves apart from poodles. He was just a trollish asshole. Would lecturing him on the difference between poodles and wolves actually have accomplished anything? I'm guessing it would have just confused the shepherd boy (and encouraged additional trolling) if you told him the problem with his behavior was that now wolves could legitimately claim to be poodles. Come to think of it, it sort of sounds a little like Avina when she talks about the "Geth attack" in ME2. It sounds kind of like a lie someone made up for convenience sake.
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Post by Gecko on Mar 19, 2017 16:00:31 GMT
This topic has derailed upon repair. It no longer debates sexuality within Mass Effect.
If anyone has the need to discuss RL views and opinions on sexuality, please feel free to do so in a dedicated off-topic thread.
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