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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 23:04:13 GMT
Go make your own queer game then. Good luck with sales. Go make your own Hetero game then. Good luck with sales.Really though that's a silly thing so say, just look at this message board... a good amount of the ME Fanbase are gay, now more than ever. Shafting the m/m fanbase can hurt sales. You would be b*tching if the devs included an achievement that every other orientation can obtain without being forced to change their sexuality, but straight men were forced to hook up with another man if they wanted to obtain the same achievement. I personally don't care about achievements, but add that with everything else; Fade to black love scenes for m/m(and at least 1 f/f that I know of) compared to the others who get legit love scene with generous nudity, no m/m squadmate, m/m romance options all being CC. Just to name a few. Coming from devs who tout their 'inclusiveness' and being proud of the romance distribution. It's kind of jarring for some fans who were lead to expect more, especially following DAI. They feel tacked on with no care put into them. Does this ruin the game for me? No, it's upsetting though. I planned on buying this for my best friend(who happens to be gay) but after all of the above he won't even let me waste $60 buck getting it for him. Now if you would excuse me, I have to go bang an entire galaxy. >Sarcastically states that straight people should make games for straight people that would have poor sales >Fails to realize that a lot of the criticism from the gay people has been how ME was designed "for straight people" and sold well while ignoring "the gays" So your friend is "outraged over this perceived slight to "the gays", but is perfectly fine with the state of the games gameplay and animations? Yet another case of someone thinking that BioWare games are supposed to be legitimate dating simulators...
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Post by Catilina on Mar 21, 2017 23:58:32 GMT
Go make your own Hetero game then. Good luck with sales.Really though that's a silly thing so say, just look at this message board... a good amount of the ME Fanbase are gay, now more than ever. Shafting the m/m fanbase can hurt sales. You would be b*tching if the devs included an achievement that every other orientation can obtain without being forced to change their sexuality, but straight men were forced to hook up with another man if they wanted to obtain the same achievement. I personally don't care about achievements, but add that with everything else; Fade to black love scenes for m/m(and at least 1 f/f that I know of) compared to the others who get legit love scene with generous nudity, no m/m squadmate, m/m romance options all being CC. Just to name a few. Coming from devs who tout their 'inclusiveness' and being proud of the romance distribution. It's kind of jarring for some fans who were lead to expect more, especially following DAI. They feel tacked on with no care put into them. Does this ruin the game for me? No, it's upsetting though. I planned on buying this for my best friend(who happens to be gay) but after all of the above he won't even let me waste $60 buck getting it for him. Now if you would excuse me, I have to go bang an entire galaxy. >Sarcastically states that straight people should make games for straight people that would have poor sales >Fails to realize that a lot of the criticism from the gay people has been how ME was designed "for straight people" and sold well while ignoring "the gays" So your friend is "outraged over this perceived slight to "the gays", but is perfectly fine with the state of the games gameplay and animations? Yet another case of someone thinking that BioWare games are supposed to be legitimate dating simulators... This is not about that the gay gamers want, that Bioware should made the Mass Effect/Dragon Age etc to dating simulator, but if Bioware don't want to made their game to dating simulator (soft porn game), why created animated sex scenes for m/f f/f romances, and a fading screen for m/m romances. I haven't any problem with fading screen (DA2 was fine for me), I just hate the double standard. We have heard enough, that's a shame, this is why the frustation. We saw, that something happened in the Bioware games, when the gay romances appeared, but now, after the Dragon Age, and Mass Efect 3, we are a bit disappointed: because of MEA we feel that this process moved backwards. (Oh, I don't know, how much times I read –most recently, precisely today–, that we force our "life style" to "normal" people and children! But the gay "sex" scenes only available, if someone play as a gay protagonist!)
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Post by Rannik on Mar 22, 2017 0:43:19 GMT
>Sarcastically states that straight people should make games for straight people that would have poor sales >Fails to realize that a lot of the criticism from the gay people has been how ME was designed "for straight people" and sold well while ignoring "the gays" So your friend is "outraged over this perceived slight to "the gays", but is perfectly fine with the state of the games gameplay and animations? Yet another case of someone thinking that BioWare games are supposed to be legitimate dating simulators... This is not about that the gay gamers want, that Bioware should made the Mass Effect/Dragon Age etc to dating simulator, but if Bioware don't want to made their game to dating simulator (soft porn game), why created animated sex scenes for m/f f/f romances, and a fading screen for m/m romances. I haven't any problem with fading screen (DA2 was fine for me), I just hate the double standard. We have heard enough, that's a shame, this is why the frustation. We saw, that something happened in the Bioware games, when the gay romances appeared, but now, after the Dragon Age, and Mass Efect 3, we are a bit disappointed: because of MEA we feel that this process moved backwards. (Oh, I don't know, how much times I read –most recently, precisely today–, that we force our "life style" to "normal" people and children! But the gay "sex" scenes only available, if someone play as a gay protagonist!) We do you keep talking in plural though? Surely you wouldn't pretend to speak for the "gay gamers", right? That shit is tiresome. Not everyone wants poorly animated vidya porn on an already perfectly enjoyable side story, I'm very glad that Gil has a fade to black and so does other people, specially since there's more than enough cringe in the game already and it's clear that the animation team had plenty of work on their hands. And I'm certainly not disappointed in this "process" that you talk about either, Gil is my favourite m/m in any Bioware game, Reyes looks really fun and going back to the original trilogy I still think that Kaidan's m/m accident is the best romance in the trilogy, by far the better paced if nothing else. So no, not everyone feels like the sky is falling, where I'm standing this stuff is great and it getting even better.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 22, 2017 1:08:23 GMT
This is not about that the gay gamers want, that Bioware should made the Mass Effect/Dragon Age etc to dating simulator, but if Bioware don't want to made their game to dating simulator (soft porn game), why created animated sex scenes for m/f f/f romances, and a fading screen for m/m romances. I haven't any problem with fading screen (DA2 was fine for me), I just hate the double standard. We have heard enough, that's a shame, this is why the frustation. We saw, that something happened in the Bioware games, when the gay romances appeared, but now, after the Dragon Age, and Mass Efect 3, we are a bit disappointed: because of MEA we feel that this process moved backwards. (Oh, I don't know, how much times I read –most recently, precisely today–, that we force our "life style" to "normal" people and children! But the gay "sex" scenes only available, if someone play as a gay protagonist!) We do you keep talking in plural though? Surely you wouldn't pretend to speak for the "gay gamers", right? That shit is tiresome. Not everyone wants poorly animated vidya porn on an already perfectly enjoyable side story, I'm very glad that Gil has a fade to black and so does other people, specially since there's more than enough cringe in the game already and it's clear that the animation team had plenty of work on their hands. And I'm certainly not disappointed in this "process" that you talk about either, Gil is my favourite m/m in any Bioware game, Reyes looks really fun and going back to the original trilogy I still think that Kaidan's m/m accident is the best romance in the trilogy, by far the better paced if nothing else. So no, not everyone feels like the sky is falling, where I'm standing this stuff is great and it getting even better. Sorry, I didn't want to hurt you. And as I said: I don't have any problem with the fade screen. Once more: I liked DA2. My favorite two gay romances were and I absolutely not missed some bad sex animation. I have a problem with the double standard. And I talked in plural form, yes, because I'm not alone. I don't talk about the whole gay (gamer) "community" because you're right: the people not a homogeneous mass. I talked about the people, who are gay, AND have a similar opinion, than me. If you're not, then my "WE" form does not apply to you, of course.
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Post by auronvigo on Mar 22, 2017 1:10:40 GMT
>States that he only prefers real life romances and sex >Proceeds to complain that non-real life "romances" in a dating simulators do not compare to real life romances Of course, the real kicker of your post is that you state that non gay people should never write gay characters because they "can't understand" the gayness. Clearly only men should write men because the lack of a penisclearly stops women from understanding men. Women should write women because men have a penis so clearly they suck. Gays should write gays because only they can understand the gayness, and lesbians should like lesbians since they possess the best knowledge on munching... The real issue is that they have shitty writers writing the characters, it has nothing to do with their gender, orientation, or whatever arbitrary trait you would prefer then to have. A shitty gay writer will still write a shitty gay character if his writing skills are lacking. I never said in my post that a gay woman can't write a good gay male romance. Of course they can and have. By all means let the non-gay writers at Bioware try writing a gay male romance. When I see one that is good I'll eat my own words.
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Post by London on Mar 22, 2017 1:12:26 GMT
>States that he only prefers real life romances and sex >Proceeds to complain that non-real life "romances" in a dating simulators do not compare to real life romances Of course, the real kicker of your post is that you state that non gay people should never write gay characters because they "can't understand" the gayness. Clearly only men should write men because the lack of a penisclearly stops women from understanding men. Women should write women because men have a penis so clearly they suck. Gays should write gays because only they can understand the gayness, and lesbians should like lesbians since they possess the best knowledge on munching... The real issue is that they have shitty writers writing the characters, it has nothing to do with their gender, orientation, or whatever arbitrary trait you would prefer then to have. A shitty gay writer will still write a shitty gay character if his writing skills are lacking. I never said in my post that a gay woman can't write a good gay male romance. Of course they can and have. By all means let the non-gay writers at Bioware try writing a gay male romance. When I see one that is good I'll eat my own words. Dunno about gay women but straight women can write really hot gay male action. lol
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Post by ralph2449 on Mar 22, 2017 1:19:35 GMT
They should hire the guy who directed the Hannibal tv series, now that a real pure homo erotic romance and they didnt even talk about anything gay, it was pure feelings, pretty beautiful.
Who would expect Hannibal would have one of the best most well done homo erotic relations ever.
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Post by medaifan on Mar 22, 2017 2:05:02 GMT
Go make your own Hetero game then. Good luck with sales.Really though that's a silly thing so say, just look at this message board... a good amount of the ME Fanbase are gay, now more than ever. Shafting the m/m fanbase can hurt sales. You would be b*tching if the devs included an achievement that every other orientation can obtain without being forced to change their sexuality, but straight men were forced to hook up with another man if they wanted to obtain the same achievement. I personally don't care about achievements, but add that with everything else; Fade to black love scenes for m/m(and at least 1 f/f that I know of) compared to the others who get legit love scene with generous nudity, no m/m squadmate, m/m romance options all being CC. Just to name a few. Coming from devs who tout their 'inclusiveness' and being proud of the romance distribution. It's kind of jarring for some fans who were lead to expect more, especially following DAI. They feel tacked on with no care put into them. Does this ruin the game for me? No, it's upsetting though. I planned on buying this for my best friend(who happens to be gay) but after all of the above he won't even let me waste $60 buck getting it for him. Now if you would excuse me, I have to go bang an entire galaxy. >Sarcastically states that straight people should make games for straight people that would have poor sales >Fails to realize that a lot of the criticism from the gay people has been how ME was designed "for straight people" and sold well while ignoring "the gays" So your friend is "outraged over this perceived slight to "the gays", but is perfectly fine with the state of the games gameplay and animations? Yet another case of someone thinking that BioWare games are supposed to be legitimate dating simulators... My friend was far from 'outraged', this is just a game after all. He's never played a Mass Effect game before and I was trying to get him to give this new one a try. He was sold on the idea based on a few key points; Story, Choices, and the option to play as a game character with the same orientation as himself. And now since the m/m romances are clearly scraps, a big draw for him is null and would rather I Shareplayed with him than spend another $60 getting him the game. Who knows maybe he will end up liking it anyway, like I do. It's not about wanting a dating sim, but if you're going to do romances then at least make them good. If you compare the two m/m romances in this game to those of other orientations it's quite clear how neutered the m/m ones are, especially when it comes to the love scenes. I don't think it's too much to ask that the developers handle the m/m romances with the same amount of care as they do with the m/f and f/f ones.
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Post by mrjack on Mar 22, 2017 14:15:09 GMT
So I said I wouldn't buy this game if there was no m/m squad option but because Jaal was "confirmed" as bi through datamining or whatever and I never thought BW would screw game men over like that, I let my preorder go through and I was like 20 hours into the game before I thought I'd check on all official options and I step into this shitstorm.
Well I played too much to get my money back now but they're not getting another penny from me for DLC.
This situation is like a giant "FUCK YOU!" from the ME team to all gay men... and I don't pay money just to be told I'm worthless. Who would have thought that a Bethesda game would beat out a BW game for m/m companion romances. I seriously can't make excuses for them anymore.
The game itself isn't bad but it's not great either. Trying to play a mediocre game when I constantly feel left out of the proper experience just makes me not even want to play at all.
So good job BW, you've lost a customer. I'm sure you don't have any fucks to give about that but there you go.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 22, 2017 17:46:08 GMT
So I said I wouldn't buy this game if there was no m/m squad option but because Jaal was "confirmed" as bi through datamining or whatever and I never thought BW would screw game men over like that, I let my preorder go through and I was like 20 hours into the game before I thought I'd check on all official options and I step into this shitstorm. Well I played too much to get my money back now but they're not getting another penny from me for DLC. This situation is like a giant "FUCK YOU!" from the ME team to all gay men... and I don't pay money just to be told I'm worthless.Who would have thought that a Bethesda game would beat out a BW game for m/m companion romances. I seriously can't make excuses for them anymore. The game itself isn't bad but it's not great either. Trying to play a mediocre game when I constantly feel left out of the proper experience just makes me not even want to play at all. So good job BW, you've lost a customer. I'm sure you don't have any fucks to give about that but there you go. Wait what? Since when have Bethesda "romances" been considered good? They're about as cookie cutter as you can get! Clearly all you care about is quantity over quality, which is amusing as hell. Then again, you also (correctly) state that MEA is a mediocre game, but then state that you're "not getting the full experience" because you're gay. So now instead of correctly being upset that MEA is mediocre (or worse), you're getting upset because your gayness is somehow stopping your from enjoying a shitty game. On a side note, the only one saying you are worthless is you. That's some quality self-loathing right there.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 22, 2017 19:04:06 GMT
So I said I wouldn't buy this game if there was no m/m squad option but because Jaal was "confirmed" as bi through datamining or whatever and I never thought BW would screw game men over like that, I let my preorder go through and I was like 20 hours into the game before I thought I'd check on all official options and I step into this shitstorm. Well I played too much to get my money back now but they're not getting another penny from me for DLC. This situation is like a giant "FUCK YOU!" from the ME team to all gay men... and I don't pay money just to be told I'm worthless. Who would have thought that a Bethesda game would beat out a BW game for m/m companion romances. I seriously can't make excuses for them anymore. The game itself isn't bad but it's not great either. Trying to play a mediocre game when I constantly feel left out of the proper experience just makes me not even want to play at all. So good job BW, you've lost a customer. I'm sure you don't have any fucks to give about that but there you go. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are worthless, statistically speaking, it's a cost benefit analysis. Gays are a very small segment of the player base so they should be allocating resources accordingly. It's unfortunate that they've hired staff based on diversity rather than competence, if they had then maybe the gays would get a bit more content given it'd be more efficient to spend the time on <deleted> type content. I'm sure, that the "<deleted> type contents" prevents the designers to make a decent story with great content. (I mean: your comment disgusting.)
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Post by Lorn on Mar 22, 2017 19:25:21 GMT
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are worthless, statistically speaking, it's a cost benefit analysis. Gays are a very small segment of the player base so they should be allocating resources accordingly. It's unfortunate that they've hired staff based on diversity rather than competence, if they had then maybe the gays would get a bit more content given it'd be more efficient to spend the time on <deleted> type content. I'm sure, that the "<deleted> type contents" prevents the designers to make a decent story with great content. (I mean: your comment disgusting.) That's not what he said however. He said That Bioware's current writers are crappie, and as such the game as a whole suffered, including the "gay content". Even if they didn't include the "gay content" the game would still be less than mediocre. The fact that you would rather attack him on his language rather than the point behind it is quite telling.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 22, 2017 19:49:31 GMT
I'm sure, that the "<deleted> type contents" prevents the designers to make a decent story with great content. (I mean: your comment disgusting.) That's not what he said however. He said That Bioware's current writers are crappie, and as such the game as a whole suffered, including the "gay content". Even if they didn't include the "gay content" the game would still be less than mediocre. The fact that you would rather attack him on his language rather than the point behind it is quite telling. If you're right (I like to be bona fide), I don't understand, what means that "<deleted> type content", why needed this wording? Probably my English is a bit weak... so the wording really matter here.
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Post by London on Mar 22, 2017 20:29:03 GMT
I'm sure, that the "<deleted> type contents" prevents the designers to make a decent story with great content. (I mean: your comment disgusting.) That's not what he said however. He said That Bioware's current writers are crappie, and as such the game as a whole suffered, including the "gay content". Even if they didn't include the "gay content" the game would still be less than mediocre. The fact that you would rather attack him on his language rather than the point behind it is quite telling. Using a pretty repugnant pejorative term to refer to gay content isn't really the best way to open a dialogue.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 22, 2017 20:56:07 GMT
That's not what he said however. He said That Bioware's current writers are crappie, and as such the game as a whole suffered, including the "gay content". Even if they didn't include the "gay content" the game would still be less than mediocre. The fact that you would rather attack him on his language rather than the point behind it is quite telling. Using a pretty repugnant pejorative term to refer to gay content isn't really the best way to open a dialogue. Well seeing as you've responded negatively to anyone that brings that point up regardless of what type of language is used, you are not seeking a "dialogue".
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Post by London on Mar 22, 2017 21:15:54 GMT
Using a pretty repugnant pejorative term to refer to gay content isn't really the best way to open a dialogue. Well seeing as you've responded negatively to anyone that brings that point up regardless of what type of language is used, you are not seeking a "dialogue".
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 22, 2017 23:46:31 GMT
Is it just me or mass effect has a quite terrible history of bad to mediocre gay romance options? I find this image funny because i agree with it a lot, both Kaidan and Steve felt bland and boring, yet the Aliens squadmates, especially garrus would be such a great romance, i mean how many people thought "YES" during that moment in the citadel which he says "you arent going to propose now, are you?" And from what i heard Jaal was going to be bi based on the files but apparently the flirt option for male ryder is gone or something, similar to mass effect 1 gay kaidan option. What is with bioware and mass effect trying to avoid any sort of good gay romance? Do they believe the shooter fans will get triggered that much? Since Dragon age games seem to be more open to homo erotic relations which makes little sense lore wise since one is based on the middle ages and the other is based on the future and in space where such things such as homosexuality would have become a non issue. Go to archiveofourown.org and look male Shepard/Kaidan Alenko stories. There are 1,673 of them. And I'm talking stories, meaning they could (and do) have multiple chapters. Maybe you wanted to romance aliens, and that's cool, but I don't think people really thought Kaidan was bland. In fact, I don't think people thought Steve was bland. The thing that turned me off from him was his stream of tears. (He's only got 297 stories pairing him with Shepard.) So, no, I don't think BioWare has a history of bad to mediocre gay romances. What I think is that they're not what you're looking for and, yes, I think you should have that option. I'd be cautious in assuming the flirt option for Jaal is gone. The reason I say this is because male Ryder can flirt with Liam and Suvi but both of them are only interested in women. It's unlikely the flirt option was removed.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 22, 2017 23:50:01 GMT
What I personally found lame is that both the straight options are *again* squadmates and the two gay options are *again* crew members. Not into Jaal so my gay Scott won't be able to travel around with his bf. :\ Is Reyes a crew member? I'm not so sure about that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 23, 2017 1:38:35 GMT
Dorian was written by david gaider who is gay himself. Which is why I said most of the writers. Amusing because I preferred the mShenko relationship to Inquisitor/Dorian. Kaidan is more my style than Dorian. Go figure.
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Post by L2 Sentinel on Mar 23, 2017 4:42:54 GMT
Which is why I said most of the writers. Amusing because I preferred the mShenko relationship to Inquisitor/Dorian. Kaidan is more my style than Dorian. Go figure. Dorian was not my speed at all. Besides the fact that he was too much of a narcissistic playboy for my tastes, he and my inquisitor wanted very different things. My inquisitor was looking for long-term commitment, and instead Dorian laughed at the very idea before reluctantly agreeing to see how it goes (I chose the "Let's slow things down" option when Dorian came to my room trolling for sex). When we broke up at the end of the game, I was actually relieved. I'd have gone for Option B. but Iron Bull was even further away from what I wanted. After finishing ME3, I thought two options was plenty (Kaidan spoiled me). But after finishing DAI, I realized just how limiting two options really is. Gay men are the only ones that still don't know what it's like to have more than two choices of LI's in a BioWare game. I was expecting two again in Andromeda; I just didn't expect them to be two of the least developed romances in the game. That's what kills me.
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Post by auronvigo on Mar 23, 2017 15:41:25 GMT
Which is why I said most of the writers. Amusing because I preferred the mShenko relationship to Inquisitor/Dorian. Kaidan is more my style than Dorian. Go figure. I agree with you. On his own Dorian is a fine character. What Gaider tried to do was add a gay-relevant issue to his storyline. With mixed results. Some people liked it, some people thought it took away from Dorian's character. I never played Jade Empire so I can't speak about Sky's romance. I haven't finished Andromeda. so I'm sticking strictly to Dragon Age and the original trilogy here. Unfortunately all of the gay male romances in these games, with one exception, has fallen into a stereotype or trope. The only one that somehow manages to get to the end of the story while avoiding all of the typical gay male pitfalls is, believe it or not, Fenris. Kaidan, to me, is the best gay male romance they have done so far once you get to the relationship. However, for the first two games he is very much a "don't ask, don't tell" gay character. Kaidan and Shepard have to act perfectly sterile around each other and never express an attraction until game 3. The VO is there in ME, but was cut out of the game. Kaidan's romance is good. but it could have been better. So 1 or 2 romances out of this many attempts is not a good track record. What the Dragon Age writers haven't figured out yet is that they have created their own trope: The hostile female elf. Practically every substantial female elf you meet in the games (Velana, Sera, Briala) are actively hostile/rude to the main character. Merrill is passive-aggressively hostile to the main character. Unless you agree with everything she says. Then she is sweet and dopey. So if they make another female elf character they need to get out of their rut and pick a different angle for her. Same thing with the gay male romances.
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Post by Rannik on Mar 23, 2017 16:44:54 GMT
Which is why I said most of the writers. Amusing because I preferred the mShenko relationship to Inquisitor/Dorian. Kaidan is more my style than Dorian. Go figure. I'm on this boat as well, Dorian's story was way too cringy for me, even by Bioware standards. My take on Dorian is that he's either a walking meme or the product of Gaider projecting... first option offers comical relief, the second is just sad. So if he's any indication of how homosexual writers tend to write homosexual characters then please keep the keyboard away from them.
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Post by benji1123 on Mar 23, 2017 16:50:06 GMT
With gay male romance options being limited to only two non-party characters, as well as heavily censored romance scenes compared to other romance options, Mass Effect Andromeda was clearly developed with a bias against the gay male lifestyle. From the romance scene animation content, it seems clear this game was developed for straight males who would enjoy watching male-female or female-female interactions rather than offer options for anyone of the LGBT community.
While we fully support providing content that appeals to a straight audience, we believe that equal content for LGBT people could have been included without in any way negatively impacting the experience of straight players. This was simply not done out of bias - intentional or unintentional - on the part of Bioware.
We have attempted to contact Bioware for comment but they have not responded. Therefore we believe the best way to send our message is through financial means.
if you agree, we invite you to join our BOYCOTT of Mass Effect Andromeda.
If you have not already purchased Mass Effect Andromeda, please do not purchase it. If you have already purchased it and have the ability to request a refund from th store, please return it. If you have the option to request a refund from your download service, please do so. If you are asked to rate the game, please give it low scores where appropriatel (where you agree a low score is deserved).
Bioware has shown they are capable of offering equal experiences when they choose to... please help us show them it should be a standard part of their offerings and not something included when they feel like it.
#BoycottBioware #MassInequaltyAndromeda
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Post by Rannik on Mar 23, 2017 17:02:49 GMT
With gay male romance options being limited to only two non-party characters, as well as heavily censored romance scenes compared to other romance options, Mass Effect Andromeda was clearly developed with a bias against the gay male lifestyle LMAO Oh man... there's drama queening, and then there is this shit. While from a purely consumer's perspective there's a point to be made this perpetual victim complex that you decided to go with is simply pathetic, I genuinely feel bad the PR people that have to waste their time appeasing people like you, even if they're being paid to do so.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 23, 2017 17:10:35 GMT
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