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Post by dazk on Mar 4, 2019 21:32:22 GMT
Watched this video today that was quite an interesting take on Bioware and its demise in quality over the past few years but also noticed in the footage they used of MEA Vegetation I had never seen before. It's gameplay but I don't remember it from any trailers. Two shots one of vegetation I hadn't seen and one I think showing that Kadara didn't have the gateway and fence where you exit to the Forward station from the slums but I maybe wrong on that one. I have to admit that the title is kinda a clickbait, however whole video is decent (however author did one mistake - he said that Andromeda was made by BioWare Edmonton and original trilogy by BioWare Montreal which is the opposite. Andromeda - Montreal, trilogy - Edmonton Clickbait titles are ok if the content inside is good. You know, fighting with toxic YouTubers with their own weapon For decent information about BioWare I always look for Raycevick. Very good content in my opinion. This whole "Clickbait" thing intrigues me, a title is designed to grab attention, that's its whole point. The definition of clickbait is: For an article to truly be clickbait to me would mean that the Title is misrepresentative of the context of the article, that is a something that lures you in and then actually pushes a different agenda or is about something that the tile does not truly represent. The article I posted I believe and this is of course subjective clearly represents the content and what the author wrote. I'd agree that the title is "sensational" in its nature and thus trying to attract readers but I am not sure I'd call it clickbait. Am I misunderstanding the term "clickbait"? @sevitarius sorry haven't watched the video its too long for me to watch now but I will later, thanks for sharing.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by seVitarius on Mar 4, 2019 22:00:47 GMT
Am I misunderstanding the term "clickbait"? No, quite the opposite! I think that I just have bad associations with this word, that's all Maybe that's a problem - clickbait is just related in public opinion with negative feelings etc but that's only my opinion of course. @sevitarius sorry haven't watched the video its too long for me to watch now but I will later, thanks for sharing. No problem He always makes long videos (literally documentaries) about games. He did that kind of content also for ME 1,2 and 3.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 11, 2019 20:19:34 GMT
Replaying Andromeda right now and really enjoying it. With my last Trilogy playthrough more than 2 years in the past, I have a bit of an easier time disregarding all the glaring lore violations that constitute the Andromeda Initiative. I mean, I still cringe here and there but I can take it (I keep telling myself ). So that lets me enjoy the positives of the game and there are quite a few. First of all, the entire beginning of the game (all the way past discovering Aya) is really fantastic. I love the whole opening on the Hyperion. That shuttle ride to Habitat 7 is a true wonder to watch and the first steps on this truly alien looking and feeling world really make you feel like an explorer out in the deep unknown, dealing with the unexpected. The pacing - with only a small fraction of Eos accessible at first) is also really good. It was only once I was on Voeld that the pacing starts to fall somewhat apart. I do not quite understand the reasoning behind some of the design choices. I mean, I get that the devs want to open up the world a bit and give you choices but if you don't go to Hawarl first, it really is tough to justify why one should go there at all. The story always makes it seem like there are other fairly urgent priorities. It would have done the game good if - say before going after the archon - there was bit of a pause in the excitement that allows the player the peace of mind to really explore (like in ME2, when they urge you to build your team before proceeding for example). But anyway, you just have to take a break for yourself and go back to finish up tasks on Eos or Hawarl or whatever, it's not a big deal, just a small annoyance. I did rescue the Moshae already and found the traitor's transponder on Kadara. So right now, I am trying to finish up some stuff before going after the Archon's ship. Voeld, Kadara and Eos are pretty much explored completely (though I didn't choose a regime yet on Kadara). Just did Liam's LM yesterday, which really for me is the low point of the entire game (who tf wrote this BS?). Thinking of going after the Asari Ark next. The gameplay is super fun, I speced for a Vanguard this time (did an Infiltrator on my first PT 2017) and he kicks some serious ass. The synergies between Charge, Annihilation, Nova (shield powered) and siphoning strikes are pretty insane. I barely even fire my shotgun anymore. Also fits well to the slightly cocky military minded personality I go for for this male Ryder (bottom left is my default choice with some bottom right thrown in and usually the right option of I only get top options). It's interesting because my first (female) Ryder was more of a logical science oriented person. When she conversed with SAM, it felt like they were working together. With my current dude, he is so dependent for everything but the shooting, it's more like he couldn't even flush a toilet without SAM's help. My favorite quote so far was at the end of the Moshae mission, when - after a fairly lengthy explanation of what the Kett are, how exaltation works and so on and so forth - he just goes: "So, SAM, how do we shut down this horror palace?" It was auto-dialogue but it was perfect in that moment. Also, still just love the galaxy map, it's so gorgeous! Oh, but btw, I came across the most ridiculous quest in the entire ME franchise yesterday, which unfortunately reminded me about everything bad in Andomeda all at once. It's the one where you find those satellites in the GM and you have to scan three of them (yawn). Then you find a shuttle with a comm relay that lets you speak to this super smart engineer. She fled the Nexus because she wanted to become pregnant (which she is now, 8 months, no less) and the Nexus authorities wouldn't allow procreation until they had some form of stable presence. She didn't want to wait, so she defied orders, took the medicine that would counteract that contraceptives they all got in stasis, stole a shuttle and fled with her boyfriend. There is so much wrong with this quest! First, just the "gameplay" execution, which just consists of you scanning on the GM. Then the story and dialogue. I mean, the Nexus was supposed to arrive in advance of the Arks and the people there were supposed to be an explicit advanced team to construct the station and scout the area for when the Arks came along. They knew that they would be there alone for at least a while and that their job was to build, not to churn out babies. If this lady is 8 months pregnant and since we know the Nexus was there for about a year, that means that she couldn't even wait a few months? And she made all these decisions in the middle of a really dire situation, when there were basically no supplies, everyone was on rations, there was an uprising with armed conflict going on and no viable planets in sight? What kind of person is this? Then, Ryder asks the most basic question about the entire issue (to Addison), like "How long were those contraceptives supposed to last?" I mean, there are a lot of situations like this in the game but it's stuff like this that makes me think, wasn't anyone briefed before they crawled into their cryo-pods back in the Milky Way? If even top tier members of the Initiative have to ask basic questions that should be on page 2 of the brochure under the headline "general game plan", my suspension of disbelief goes out the window. This whole situation and the people, presented in this quest are just so absurd. It's stuff like this that fuels my downright schizophrenic relationship with the newer BioWare games. I really really want to like them and there are so many aspects I love but sometimes it feels like they deliberately want to kick me in the brain. Anyway, onward!
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 14, 2019 18:24:30 GMT
Finally got around to landing on Hawarl, doing all the stuff there and reactivating their vault yesterday. It's my favorite planet in Helios. Love the "blue/purple jungle at night" vibe with all the remnant ruins dotted throughout. Also, the pacing with the quests and all works really well there and I don't miss the Nomad at all. Wish Andromeda had another Hawarl or two in it.
Ah well, now it's back to hitting the dust on Elaaden.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dazk on Mar 14, 2019 23:30:00 GMT
Finally got around to landing on Hawarl, doing all the stuff there and reactivating their vault yesterday. It's my favorite planet in Helios. Love the "blue/purple jungle at night" vibe with all the remnant ruins dotted throughout. Also, the pacing with the quests and all works really well there and I don't miss the Nomad at all. Wish Andromeda had another Hawarl or two in it.
Ah well, now it's back to hitting the dust on Elaaden.
Yeah Havarl is by far my favourite planet in MEA.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 16:24:48 GMT
Finished Elaaden yesterday and went back to finish up Kadara. I am trying to make different decisions to my first playthrough, so I am making all the dumb ones. For this reason I really screwed up Elaaden. Let the angaaren water merchant keep the lake secret and gave the drive core to the initiative, thus preventing me from building an outpost. Seeing the fallout from this, it really is a stupid decision uless you really hate the krogan and bet on them not really succeeding (which it doesn't look like at the time) or to basically starve them out (without the water). But then, I also fixed the vault, so the planet should get better on it's own over time. I guess the other bet is that the drive core will provide such an advantage in research and technology, that if a war should ever break out between the krogan and the initiative, the krogan wouldn't stand a chance but that is also a very unsafe bet. All in all, I think it still makes no sense whatsoever that the initiative brought the krogan along in the first place, given all the problems that come with them, let alone trying to cure the genophage during stasis (never mind the biological inadequacies of attempting gene therapy in an stasis pod. ). It's like they tried to recreate a krogan rebellion scenario in Andromeda on purpose. Even as heavy lifters or military troops it's a really stupid idea, when you have the kind of technology the AI has, and the history we saw when someone tried to use the krogan in that sort of way. I just don't get it. Other than that, I really like how the krogan are depicted on Elaaden. It shows a lot of variety in the species, that we haven't really seen before, There are a lot of warriors, sure and everyone is a badass in their own way but there are scientists, engineers, a barkeeper and so on. It's good to see that variety and it does give you the feeling that that they are trying to make a new start. And they can be really cute. Loved it when I heard this ambient conversation by a random krogan couple: He (with super deep badass voice): "But wouldn't you love your mate just a little more if he killed the Worm?" (meaning the humongous indestructible remnant construct) She: "I love you enough without you getting stupid ideas in your head." Also the texts on the terminals are just pure hilarity. Gameplay wise, I gotta say that Elaaden is the biggest drag of the game (for me as someone who tries to be completionist). I think it's got the most forward stations, which also means the most mining zones ( ). Even worse, I can never get those 2 mining zones just south of New Tuchanka to get blue. While the giant remanent wreck and some of those white mountains look kinda cool the planet is also very similar to Eos. I feel like there is just too much sand in this game. So I am glad that's now over with and there are more shorter planetary visits and story missions to concentrate on. Anyway, then went back to Kadara and cleared up the whole Outcast/Collective situation. Last playthrough, I prevented Sloane's assassination but let Rayes go without shooting him. This time, I wanted to pick Sloane again, since she just fit way better to my military minded Ryder but I shot Rayes. Was really disappointed that he got away anyway. Now I am curious if there will be follow-up that goes beyong an email. If there isn't, I can only assume that when they made the game, they were definitely planning for a sequel and were preparing to keep Rayes around for a future plot line. I was absolutely expecting to be able to kill him though. Well, in any case, I started up the outpost on Kadara (last one!) Addison didn't seem that pleased. She really must hate the exiles because Kadara looks like it is by far the most viable planet we got. Alright, time to go on and find the asari Ark (and start of that Cora romance I got planned with this Ryder).
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 18, 2019 17:48:29 GMT
I am trying to make different decisions to my first playthrough, so I am making all the dumb ones. For this reason I really screwed up Elaaden. Let the angaaren water merchant keep the lanke secret and gave the drive core to the initiatove, thus preventing me from building an outpost. Seeing the fallout from this, it really is a stupid decision uless you really hate the krogan and bet on them not really succeeding (which it doesn't look like at the time) or to basically starve them out (without the water). But then, I also fixed the vault, so the planet should get better on it's own over time. I guess the other bet is that the drive core will provide such an advantage in research and technology, that if a war should ever break out between the krogan and the initiative, the krogan wouldn't stand a chance but that is also a very unsafe bet. All in all, I think it still makes no sense whatsoever that the initiative brought the krogan along in the first place, given all the problems that come with them, let alone trying to cure the genophage during stasis (never mind the biological inadequacies of attempting gene therapy in an stasis pod. ). It's like they tried to recreate a krogan rebellion scenario in Andromeda on purpose. Even as heavy lifters or military troops it's a really stupid idea, when you have the kind of technology the AI has, and the history we saw when someone tried to use the krogan in that sort of way. I just don't get it. Gameplay wise, I gotta say that Elaaden is the biggest drag of the game (for me as someone who tries to be completionist). I think it's got the most forward stations, which also means the most mining zones ( ). Even worse, I can never get those 2 mining zones just south of New Tuchanka to get blue. While the giant remanent wreck and some of those white mountains look kinda cool the planet is also very similar to Eos. I feel like there is just too much sand in this game. So I am glad that's now over with and there are more shorter planetary visits and story missions to concentrate on. For not giving them the drive core. They do their best to make you give it but I can see not doing so because of morda. Her entire tone about how letting you out an outpost and you’ll be friends now is not very confidence inducing. It felt more like, give us what we want then we will let you build a outpost so we don’t have to walk far when we murder everyone. But, they lean so heavily into you doing so I suspect almost everyone does and if there was a mea2 they’d have nexus negotiators do it for you behind the scenes. It’s too big of a story point to have a divergence. Though I guess if they do the krogan revolt as a story they could have mea2 open up to that outpost being wiped out by the krogan. So that would bring world states between choices in line. Either way you are at war it’s just a we lost x people vs we didn’t. And yes bringing the krogan makes 0 sense. Helping cure the genophage makes less sense. As for the gameplay drag, by itself it’s not bad imo. But you land on eos. It’s a desert. You go to voeld. It’s a ice desert. You go to H2whatever. It’s a low grav no atmosphere desert. Eladin another damn desert. At least h2etc had a cool enough gimmick to distract from the empty landscape. Eladin is late enough in the game you are just done with big open nothing environments with x environmental effect that keeps you in he nomad.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 18:21:56 GMT
Yep, still gotta go to h2whatsitsname. But IIRC, at least that one wasn't quite as big and can be done fairly quickly. Also, I did like the concept of having an asteroid (I like asteroids, already like BdtS a lot) and the atmosphere was fairly eerie as I remember. I just wish, with all these deserts, they at least didn't have two sandy ones. IMO, the best option for Elaaden would have been a volcanic environment, like in Peebee's LM. They could have basically kept everything else about it the same, just make the sinkholes into lava lakes and change the textures and lighting. Done. Could even have kept the water and heat issues the same. And how cool would it have been for the Krogan to basically settle in the caldera of some barely stable volcano. They would have bragged the shit out of that one.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 18, 2019 19:00:47 GMT
A volcanic world would have been better. But I think they needed more diversity. Maybe a mid point between hvarl and eos like forests or maybe a archipelago with land bridges available at certain tides. Or maybe a planet almost completely covered in intact but empty cities from a civilization long gone.
World design is one area where their lack of time really showed.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2019 19:12:43 GMT
Anthem sold well it seems. That's good, am yet to see figures. Has someone released actual numbers of physical sales, last I heard in the UK in its first week it sold half of what MEA did in terms of physical sales. The sales figures seem to be OK, about what you'd expect. The really bad number for Anthem is the number of Twitch streams. Kadara looks too good in those pictures. I can see why they changed it.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2019 19:14:18 GMT
And yes bringing the krogan makes 0 sense. Helping cure the genophage makes less sense. I dunno. Cannon fodder can be useful.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:01:11 GMT
Finished Elaaden yesterday and went back to finish up Kadara. I am trying to make different decisions to my first playthrough, so I am making all the dumb ones. For this reason I really screwed up Elaaden. Let the angaaren water merchant keep the lake secret and gave the drive core to the initiative, thus preventing me from building an outpost. Seeing the fallout from this, it really is a stupid decision uless you really hate the krogan and bet on them not really succeeding (which it doesn't look like at the time) or to basically starve them out (without the water). But then, I also fixed the vault, so the planet should get better on it's own over time. I guess the other bet is that the drive core will provide such an advantage in research and technology, that if a war should ever break out between the krogan and the initiative, the krogan wouldn't stand a chance but that is also a very unsafe bet. All in all, I think it still makes no sense whatsoever that the initiative brought the krogan along in the first place, given all the problems that come with them, let alone trying to cure the genophage during stasis (never mind the biological inadequacies of attempting gene therapy in an stasis pod. ). It's like they tried to recreate a krogan rebellion scenario in Andromeda on purpose. Even as heavy lifters or military troops it's a really stupid idea, when you have the kind of technology the AI has, and the history we saw when someone tried to use the krogan in that sort of way. I just don't get it. Other than that, I really like how the krogan are depicted on Elaaden. It shows a lot of variety in the species, that we haven't really seen before, There are a lot of warriors, sure and everyone is a badass in their own way but there are scientists, engineers, a barkeeper and so on. It's good to see that variety and it does give you the feeling that that they are trying to make a new start. And they can be really cute. Loved it when I heard this ambient conversation by a random krogan couple: He (with super deep badass voice): "But wouldn't you love your mate just a little more if he killed the Worm?" (meaning the humongous indestructible remnant construct) She: "I love you enough without you getting stupid ideas in your head." Also the texts on the terminals are just pure hilarity. Gameplay wise, I gotta say that Elaaden is the biggest drag of the game (for me as someone who tries to be completionist). I think it's got the most forward stations, which also means the most mining zones ( ). Even worse, I can never get those 2 mining zones just south of New Tuchanka to get blue. While the giant remanent wreck and some of those white mountains look kinda cool the planet is also very similar to Eos. I feel like there is just too much sand in this game. So I am glad that's now over with and there are more shorter planetary visits and story missions to concentrate on. Anyway, then went back to Kadara and cleared up the whole Outcast/Collective situation. Last playthrough, I prevented Sloane's assassination but let Rayes go without shooting him. This time, I wanted to pick Sloane again, since she just fit way better to my military minded Ryder but I shot Rayes. Was really disappointed that he got away anyway. Now I am curious if there will be follow-up that goes beyong an email. If there isn't, I can only assume that when they made the game, they were definitely planning for a sequel and were preparing to keep Rayes around for a future plot line. I was absolutely expecting to be able to kill him though. Well, in any case, I started up the outpost on Kadara (last one!) Addison didn't seem that pleased. She really must hate the exiles because Kadara looks like it is by far the most viable planet we got. Alright, time to go on and find the asari Ark (and start of that Cora romance I got planned with this Ryder). For me I always give the drive core to Morda (16 out of 16 times), not that I want to she is an idiot (which is a shame cause in the book she isn't she's just ruthless) but just because you give it to them doesn't mean the Initiative can't study it is my take away from it. I'd imagine SAM would already have been able to scan and replicate a schematic of it anyway before you give it to them. I actually liked Elaaden but yes being so open it is a drag being the last map I generally I do before moving on to the main story. My male Ryders (4 of them) 3 romance Cora and one PeeBee, I would have liked to have been able to do a female romance with Cora but I can kinda understand why the writers didn't go that way especially as the book sort of sets that up.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:02:45 GMT
That's good, am yet to see figures. Has someone released actual numbers of physical sales, last I heard in the UK in its first week it sold half of what MEA did in terms of physical sales. The sales figures seem to be OK, about what you'd expect. The really bad number for Anthem is the number of Twitch streams. Kadara looks too good in those pictures. I can see why they changed it. Have you heard what any of the sales figures are, have heard the game was a big hit in Japan. Yeah the trees looked good in particular.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 21:07:05 GMT
Never read the book but Morda doesn't seem too idiotic to me in the game actually (you know, given the average ). She is just really pushing for the krogan to be as independent as possible and after all the prior screw-ups with the Nexus (as depicted in the game at least) and after all the other history of the krogan, I can't really blame her for that. I mean, why would the AI people ever have thought the krogan wouldn't push for political power on the Nexus or alternatively an independent nation in Andromeda? Again, my biggest facepalm award goes to the guys who invited them along in the first place.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:07:23 GMT
I am trying to make different decisions to my first playthrough, so I am making all the dumb ones. For this reason I really screwed up Elaaden. Let the angaaren water merchant keep the lanke secret and gave the drive core to the initiatove, thus preventing me from building an outpost. Seeing the fallout from this, it really is a stupid decision uless you really hate the krogan and bet on them not really succeeding (which it doesn't look like at the time) or to basically starve them out (without the water). But then, I also fixed the vault, so the planet should get better on it's own over time. I guess the other bet is that the drive core will provide such an advantage in research and technology, that if a war should ever break out between the krogan and the initiative, the krogan wouldn't stand a chance but that is also a very unsafe bet. All in all, I think it still makes no sense whatsoever that the initiative brought the krogan along in the first place, given all the problems that come with them, let alone trying to cure the genophage during stasis (never mind the biological inadequacies of attempting gene therapy in an stasis pod. ). It's like they tried to recreate a krogan rebellion scenario in Andromeda on purpose. Even as heavy lifters or military troops it's a really stupid idea, when you have the kind of technology the AI has, and the history we saw when someone tried to use the krogan in that sort of way. I just don't get it. Gameplay wise, I gotta say that Elaaden is the biggest drag of the game (for me as someone who tries to be completionist). I think it's got the most forward stations, which also means the most mining zones ( ). Even worse, I can never get those 2 mining zones just south of New Tuchanka to get blue. While the giant remanent wreck and some of those white mountains look kinda cool the planet is also very similar to Eos. I feel like there is just too much sand in this game. So I am glad that's now over with and there are more shorter planetary visits and story missions to concentrate on. And yes bringing the krogan makes 0 sense. Helping cure the genophage makes less sense. I think it makes perfect sense, true representation of the MW species except for the Rachni I suppose but in a foreign galaxy why wouldn't you want their muscle? Plus they were perfect for the shifts awake on the trip to Andromeda. Curing the genophage, why wouldn't they. With a new start, the Krogan getting their own planets and less pressure on them in more favourable environments that might be enough for them to reduce their impetus to want/have to reproduce so much.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:23:23 GMT
Never read the book but Morda doesn't seem too idiotic to me in the game actually (you know, given the average ). She is just really pushing for the krogan to be as independent as possible and after all the prior screw-ups with the Nexus (as depicted in the game at least) and after all the other history of the krogan, I can't really blame her for that. I mean, why would the AI people ever have thought the krogan wouldn't push for political power on the Nexus or alternatively an independent nation in Andromeda? Again, my biggest facepalm award goes to the guys who invited them along in the first place. The books are worth reading if they aren't too expensive where you live. ME Initiation gives a good insight into Alec and Cora and especially why Cora could never have had a SAM and been pathfinder and makes her character more relatable in the game. ME Nexus Uprising gives the background of the uprising and an insight into what a complete stuff up it was waking Tann and shows Addison's, Spenders and Sloane's roles more clearly. It also gives more insight into Morda and why she and the krogan reacted how they did. Morda in the book is a force of nature and physically is large even compared to a male Krogan. In the game I expected her to be the 7 foot plus she is in the book but apparently that sort of height discrepancy is a hard thing to render in a video game. I think in terms of them being invited it was probably a combination of there military expertise and also an altruistic one of trying to save the genetic diversity of the whole Milky Way species. If there is an MEA 2 I'd fully expect The Geth and The Rachni to show up as well as the Quarian ark (that books a slow start but a good finish). I am a believer The Geth and SAM are The Mysterious Benfactor and the Geth didn't kill the Quarians because they couldn't calculate the implications of killing a whole species and their creators, why would they not want to save all MW species including the Krogan?
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 21:25:52 GMT
I think it makes perfect sense, true representation of the MW species except for the Rachni I suppose but in a foreign galaxy why wouldn't you want their muscle? Plus they were perfect for the shifts awake on the trip to Andromeda. Curing the genophage, why wouldn't they. With a new start, the Krogan getting their own planets and less pressure on them in more favourable environments that might be enough for them to reduce their impetus to want/have to reproduce so much. As far as I know, the AI wasn't really about equal representation of everyone. the main Arks are funded by the major races and those are the races that are primarily going. Even if the lore states somewhere that equal representation was one of the major goals of the initiative, it would make no sense within the "old" ME lore (well, most of Andromeda's stuff doesn't, so there's that but still).
I mean, in the MW, the krogans are a "problem". Without the genophage the problem was so acute that even the question whether to cure it or not in ME3 spawned huge debates on the old BW forums and here. The salarians and the turians (two major contributors to the Initiative) were the biggest proponents of keeping the krogan down, even when the frigging reapers showed up and everyone needed fighters more than ever.
Bringing them along on the very first attempt to go to another galaxy and attempting to cure the genophage (resulting in a population growth rate that is not sustainable as proven in the MW) is just crazy unless you plan to swarm Andromeda with them for some reason.
Even bringing them as some sort of labor/soldier underclass - apart from the fact that it goes against the ethics that the AI apparently was supposed to work under - would be a really dumb idea because it has been shown that that does not work by the aftermath of the rachni wars and it's what caused just about the biggest historical tragedy in the MW. And with the tech the AI went out with, the mechs, the ME tech, the biotics, the AIs that can enhance physiology and so on I'd argue that the risk of brnging the krogan with what might be considered a first wave largely outweighs any benefits and I really just cannot see any turian or salarian on the AI board going along with it.
EDIT: Ok, just read your last post and in the context of the geth being the benefactor and such, that could actually square things out a little. And it would also be a nice twist actually. Nice idea! Still the question remains, even if those were the motives of the benefactor/geth, how would they have convinced everyone who wasn't in the loop to go along with this apparent insanity (this is overall one problem I have with using the benefactor as an excuse for plot issues) but it's a good start. Might actually make that a head canon.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:35:56 GMT
I think it makes perfect sense, true representation of the MW species except for the Rachni I suppose but in a foreign galaxy why wouldn't you want their muscle? Plus they were perfect for the shifts awake on the trip to Andromeda. Curing the genophage, why wouldn't they. With a new start, the Krogan getting their own planets and less pressure on them in more favourable environments that might be enough for them to reduce their impetus to want/have to reproduce so much. As far as I know, the AI wasn't really about equal representation of everyone. the main Arks are funded by the major races and those are the races that are primarily going. Even if the lore states somewhere that equal representation was one of the major goals of the initiative, it would make no sense within the "old" ME lore (well, most of Andromeda's stuff doesn't, so there's that but still).
I mean, in the MW, the krogans are a "problem". Without the genophage the problem was so acute that even the question whether to cure it or not in ME3 spawned huge debates on the old BW forums and here. The salarians and the turians (two major contributors to the Initiative) were the biggest proponents of keeping the krogan down, even when the frigging reapers showed up and everyone needed fighters more than ever.
Bringing them along on the very first attempt to go to another galaxy and attempting to cure the genophage (resulting in a population growth rate that is not sustainable as proven in the MW) is just crazy unless you plan to swarm Andromeda with them for some reason.
Even bringing them as some sort of labor/soldier underclass - apart from the fact that it goes against the ethics that the AI apparently was supposed to work under - would be a really dumb idea because it has been shown that that does not work by the aftermath of the rachni wars and it's what caused just about the biggest historical tragedy in the MW. And with the tech the AI went out with, the mechs, the ME tech, the biotics, the AIs that can enhance physiology and so on I'd argue that the risk of brnging the krogan with what might be considered a first wave largely outweighs any benefits and I really just cannot see any turian or salarian on the AI board going along with it.
EDIT: Ok, just read your last post and in the context of the geth being the benefactor and such, that could actually square things out a little. And it would also be a nice twist actually. Nice idea! Still the question, even if those were the motives of the benefactor/geth, how would they have convinced everyone who wasn't in the loop to go along with this apparent insanity (this is overall one problem I have with using the benefactor as an excuse for plot issues) but it's a good start. Might actually make that a head canon.
Re The Krogan, I am just taking the altruistic path and giving them a second chance and the path of if we encounter a hostile species (e.g the Kett) we have a strong military species to defend the AI and now they can breed faster again!!!! Also we don't know who the Mysterious Benefactor is and what their motivations are. And as I said they may have taken an altruistic view that it was better to preserve all of the MW species.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 21:41:15 GMT
You know, I really like the geth idea actually. Would also fit perfectly with Legion's dialogue in ME2, when he tells you how the geth did interfere with organics via false transmissions and such. Since the geth are also one of the very few parties that did know just about everything about the reapers, that makes sense, too. Hell, even the weird FTL telescope they used to get Andromeda info was a geth construct that conveniently fell into the AI's lap. They also always see a somewhat larger picture and are not prone to discrimination, so one could see them wanting to include all races without prejudice.
One could use this to explain a great deal about Andromeda's inconsistencies with trilogy lore, not all (especially the technical stuff) but some (finances, why was a human so successful so quickly, etc.). Not sure I still have enough faith in BW writers to think this might have been a plot idea but as a head canon it certainly has its perks.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 18, 2019 21:53:06 GMT
As far as I know, the AI wasn't really about equal representation of everyone. the main Arks are funded by the major races and those are the races that are primarily going. Even if the lore states somewhere that equal representation was one of the major goals of the initiative, it would make no sense within the "old" ME lore (well, most of Andromeda's stuff doesn't, so there's that but still).
I mean, in the MW, the krogans are a "problem". Without the genophage the problem was so acute that even the question whether to cure it or not in ME3 spawned huge debates on the old BW forums and here. The salarians and the turians (two major contributors to the Initiative) were the biggest proponents of keeping the krogan down, even when the frigging reapers showed up and everyone needed fighters more than ever.
Bringing them along on the very first attempt to go to another galaxy and attempting to cure the genophage (resulting in a population growth rate that is not sustainable as proven in the MW) is just crazy unless you plan to swarm Andromeda with them for some reason.
Even bringing them as some sort of labor/soldier underclass - apart from the fact that it goes against the ethics that the AI apparently was supposed to work under - would be a really dumb idea because it has been shown that that does not work by the aftermath of the rachni wars and it's what caused just about the biggest historical tragedy in the MW. And with the tech the AI went out with, the mechs, the ME tech, the biotics, the AIs that can enhance physiology and so on I'd argue that the risk of brnging the krogan with what might be considered a first wave largely outweighs any benefits and I really just cannot see any turian or salarian on the AI board going along with it.
EDIT: Ok, just read your last post and in the context of the geth being the benefactor and such, that could actually square things out a little. And it would also be a nice twist actually. Nice idea! Still the question, even if those were the motives of the benefactor/geth, how would they have convinced everyone who wasn't in the loop to go along with this apparent insanity (this is overall one problem I have with using the benefactor as an excuse for plot issues) but it's a good start. Might actually make that a head canon.
Re The Krogan, I am just taking the altruistic path and giving them a second chance and the path of if we encounter a hostile species (e.g the Kett) we have a strong military species to defend the AI and now they can breed faster again!!!! Also we don't know who the Mysterious Benefactor is and what their motivations are. And as I said they may have taken an altruistic view that it was better to preserve all of the MW species. Even if you are altruistic enough to take them along unless you want the entire galaxy overrun in krogan to the point you are murdering on a massive scale just for food you wouldn’t cure the genophage. The math of their birth rate is so bad it hurts. It only works when they were stuck on one planet and did in fact murder each other at an absurd rate for food. Even then it’s a hard leap to buy it.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:55:41 GMT
You know, I really like the Geth idea actually. Would also fit perfectly with Legion's dialogue in ME2, when he tells you how the geth did interfere with organics via false transmissions and such. Since the geht are alos one of the very few parties that did know just about everything about the reapers, that makes sense, too. Hell, even the weird FTL telescope they used to get Andromeda info was a geth construct that conveniently fell into the AI's lap. They also always see a somewhat larger picture, so one could see them wanting to include all races without prejudice. One could use this to explain a great deal about Andromeda's inconsistencies with trilogy lore, not all but some. Not sure I still have enough faith in BW writers to think this might have been a plot idea but as a head canon it certainly has it's perks. Yeah I am a big fan of the Geth in conjunction with SAM being the MB, The MB says in one their speeches I think to Alec that "Your AI has the potential to help a lot of people other than just your wife) or something like that. The Geth FTL telescope was a big prompt to me re thinking about the Geth being somehow involved, especially the WHY THE HELL DID THEY BUILD it and when they did, did they see evidence of an advanced civilisation using AI (if that was at all possible) or was it ppurely that they knew the Arks would need sophisticated AI for the trip to Andromeda. I believe SAM was in some way complicit (as an agent of the Geth) because there is no way I can see Alec being able to build such an AI, even with Shadow Broker tech which could only have been Geth technology anyway.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 21:59:24 GMT
Re The Krogan, I am just taking the altruistic path and giving them a second chance and the path of if we encounter a hostile species (e.g the Kett) we have a strong military species to defend the AI and now they can breed faster again!!!! Also we don't know who the Mysterious Benefactor is and what their motivations are. And as I said they may have taken an altruistic view that it was better to preserve all of the MW species. Even if you are altruistic enough to take them along unless you want the entire galaxy overrun in krogan to the point you are murdering on a massive scale just for food you wouldn’t cure the genophage. The math of their birth rate is so bad it hurts. It only works when they were stuck on one planet and did in fact murder each other at an absurd rate for food. Even then it’s a hard leap to buy it. What was the increase they talk about in MEA, maybe a factor of four fold and remember we are not just talking Heleus but the whole Andromeda galaxy that could be populated. The Krogan had a history that wasn't always war like, was it not the Salarians uplifting them that caused most their population problems and the eventual nuking of Tuchanka. Sorry MET lore is not my strong point.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 18, 2019 22:01:57 GMT
You know, I really like the Geth idea actually. Would also fit perfectly with Legion's dialogue in ME2, when he tells you how the geth did interfere with organics via false transmissions and such. Since the geht are alos one of the very few parties that did know just about everything about the reapers, that makes sense, too. Hell, even the weird FTL telescope they used to get Andromeda info was a geth construct that conveniently fell into the AI's lap. They also always see a somewhat larger picture, so one could see them wanting to include all races without prejudice. One could use this to explain a great deal about Andromeda's inconsistencies with trilogy lore, not all but some. Not sure I still have enough faith in BW writers to think this might have been a plot idea but as a head canon it certainly has it's perks. Yeah I am a big fan of the Geth in conjunction with SAM being the MB, The MB says in one their speeches I think to Alec that "Your AI has the potential to help a lot of people other than just your wife) or something like that. The Geth FTL telescope was a big prompt to me re thinking about the Geth being somehow involved, especially the WHY THE HELL DID THEY BUILD it and when they did, did they see evidence of an advanced civilisation using AI (if that was at all possible) or was it ppurely that they knew the Arks would need sophisticated AI for the trip to Andromeda. I believe SAM was in some way complicit (as an agent of the Geth) because there is no way I can see Alec being able to build such an AI, even with Shadow Broker tech which could only have been Geth technology anyway. It would also make for an awesome plot twist in an ME:A2, to find out that the AI in your head has done this and that basically a bunch of benevolent AIs have silently and underhandedly steered the organic population to do what's best for them because they wouldn't do it on their own. You know, but they also killed Garson and made sure people didn't know about the brain deterioration risks of the prolonged stasis that we see on Elaaden because for them, the overall result is the only one that counts, not so much individuals.
Now, do you agree with SAM/the geth or not? If not, how do you live with SAM integrated into your very being (talk about the Synthesis dilemma all over again)? Even if you might agree with them, how can you still trust them? Do you tell the others? What will happen to you (hosting SAM) if you do so?
I could see some awesome moral dilemma's coming from such a revelation if done right. Now that would have me truly excited for an ME:A2.
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Post by dazk on Mar 18, 2019 22:05:54 GMT
Yeah I am a big fan of the Geth in conjunction with SAM being the MB, The MB says in one their speeches I think to Alec that "Your AI has the potential to help a lot of people other than just your wife) or something like that. The Geth FTL telescope was a big prompt to me re thinking about the Geth being somehow involved, especially the WHY THE HELL DID THEY BUILD it and when they did, did they see evidence of an advanced civilisation using AI (if that was at all possible) or was it ppurely that they knew the Arks would need sophisticated AI for the trip to Andromeda. I believe SAM was in some way complicit (as an agent of the Geth) because there is no way I can see Alec being able to build such an AI, even with Shadow Broker tech which could only have been Geth technology anyway. It would also make for an awesome plot twist in an ME:A2, to find out that the AI in your head has done this and that basically a bunch of benevolent AIs have silently and underhandedly steered the organic population to do what's best for them because they wouldn't do it on their own. You know, but they also killed Garson and made sure people didn't know about the brain deterioration risks of the prolonged stasis that we see on Elaaden because for them, the overall result is the only one that counts, not so much individuals.
Now, do you agree with SAM/the geth or not? If not, how do you live with SAM integrated into your very being (talk about the Synthesis dilemma all over again)? Even if you might agree with them, how can you still trust them? Do you tell the other? What will happen to you (hosting SAM) if you do so?
I could see some awesome moral dilemma's coming from such a revelation if done right. Now that would have me truly excited for an ME:A2.
Yeah that was another reason for me thinking SAM and the Geth were the MB, the Jien Garson murder (I was trying so hard to remember that just before!!!!) and it being covered up so the MB would not be implicated. It also fits in with a question SAM asks Ryder re there being laws established for AI in Andromeda, I think when they are at Kadara he brings it up.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 18, 2019 22:06:43 GMT
Even if you are altruistic enough to take them along unless you want the entire galaxy overrun in krogan to the point you are murdering on a massive scale just for food you wouldn’t cure the genophage. The math of their birth rate is so bad it hurts. It only works when they were stuck on one planet and did in fact murder each other at an absurd rate for food. Even then it’s a hard leap to buy it. What was the increase they talk about in MEA, maybe a factor of four fold and remember we are not just talking Heleus but the whole Andromeda galaxy that could be populated. The Krogan had a history that wasn't always war like, was it not the Salarians uplifting them that caused most their population problems and the eventual nuking of Tuchanka. Sorry MET lore is not my strong point. No, they were always warlike. They were uplifted post nukes. They had some culture beyond murder everything. But they were warlike. And theyd overwhelm all of andromeda in a 1000 years or so if they cured the genophage. Even the targeted increase during cryosleep would be unsustainable quickly.
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