The Old Guard (Ye Olde Cullen Thread v4.0 + gen discussion)

I think the only time I've done it is with Solas... gulp. As a momentary reprieve to snog Cullen between my fifty-thousand reloads of the Crestwood scene. But it was therapeutic! 

Altho, come to think of it, I may have broken up with Anders and Merrill once upon a time when they ninjamanced me out of the blue. But they weren't really my LIs. 

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I don't recall breaking up with any LI's either... unless you count murder knifing the hell out of Anders after "the incident". I will say this... as apathetic as I am about DA2, that was one moment that enraged me enough that I was ready, willing and able to shank my boyfriend without remorse. And left me wishing I could revive him just to do it again.  It was wonderful! 

On this note, how was it for the people who romanced Alistair and loved Hawke the choice in DAI? For my canon it wasn't a big deal to me because Loghain was a Warden (Alistair king), and while I really liked him, he was older and kind at the end of his life already.

I honestly prefer killing him in rivarly path, but it's not because I hate Anders, it's more about the particular situation he's in. I don't see the way the friendship part works for Anders as healthy, because he seems a bit like he was too much influenced by J/V, and if Anders will come to clash on the latter on something the Fade entity would probably overpower him as he does in the rivarly path.
In the rivarly killing him he's kind of merciful, since he's obviously not strong enough to resist J/V, and he showns some moral constraint in regards of what happened (meaning he realized he was wrong and tried to stop his plan but J/V overpowered him).
I understand the problems in killing a beloved character/LI, though I don't have this problem, in general. It depends on the type of story I want to roleplay in a particular playthrough.

It's okay to debate and disagree! As for me personally, I feel that Anders' situation is generally hopeless. That final move he (a.k.a. Justice/Vengeance... "Janders") shows how far gone he is. I'm not sure he can be saved Of course I can never kill him. I love the character too much, and I'm a wimp LOL My Hawkes who romance him are just going to basically be there for him and perhaps try to find a way to get rid of Vengeance (though it seems that's impossible).

My templar-supporting Hawke (actually one of my canons ) just told Anders to leave. He couldn't kill him. 

Well I disagree. Friendship is all about helping Anders to be more in control or at peace with Justice, rivalry is about needlessly driving a wedge between him and Justice as well as just using the spirit as a scapegoat while ignoring the real problems in Kirkwall. Anders is complicated and has his struggles, accepting him as he is and helping him to do and be better is far healthier than demon-shaming him. I really don't like this "unhealthy" viewpoint, because helping Anders to exist in his "new life" is not unhealthy.

I know what you mean; anyone says one tiny negative thing about Fenris and I lose my fucking mind

Maybe. I mean, I would hope so -- that Justice would calm down. But what he did at the end of DA2 is utterly deplorable. But the reason I can hate the act and still love Anders (and pity him, poor man) is because that wasn't him. It was "Janders." So it's a very heavy-hearted Hawke who limps out of Kirkwall with his broken love at his side, doing the best he can to keep Anders separate from the rest of the world so that he can't do any further harm. There will always be injustice in the world, and if Anders ever becomes passionate about something that isn't mage-related (as he surely must, because he's a human being, and a truly warm-hearted and caring person), then disaster could strike yet again.

It's the usual sort of unfinished thread dangling at the end of a narrative that the DA writers are known for. It sucks that they never cared to let us know what happens to Anders (or gave us the chance to influence what happens to him... beyond killing him... ourselves). Fenris is in the same boat; the man is infused with fucking lyrium for chrissakes! There's no way that's healthy, especially with no one monitoring or maintaining that lyrium. 

I wish Hawke had been the hero of a trilogy like Mass Effect. DAO I think made a fine stand alone game. I realize the writers had a vision, that the game's heart is the world and not its characters, but then they ended up writing such interesting characters that it actually hurts the story when they drop those characters like a sack of potatoes so they can move on to something else lol

I was talking about the situation in the end, on what Anders said after the bomb, not on the two path in general. Though it's not true that rivarly is about demon shaming him, be a jerk or driving a wedge between him and Justice. You can fall in the rivarly path without doing any of those thing to Anders. I didn't even talk about the spirit beign a scapegoat for the problems with Kirkwall. 


I didn't meant that rivarly is better then friendship. Helping Anders is, as a general rule, a good thing. I was just referring to the end of the path, which doesn't seem to me like Anders ans Justice find a compromise but that the former went all towards the latter's direction, and still doesn't mean the latter might not rebel or go against Anders if he does something he doesn't approve. This is just my personal opinion, you don't have to agree on that.

The rivarly, if it is as you describe it, is a bad path. But I didn't do any of those thing. It might be a game's flaw, but you don't have to be horrible to Anders to have a rivarly path.

I still prefer the rivarly for my own personal interpretation, but I didn't mean that the frienship path is bad or unheathy, I just feel that way for the way it ends.

SpiritVanguard : I understand what you meant on both accounts. I actually agree with you on the second one. Anders did want to place the bomb. The change in rivarly is that you can convince/make him realize he was wrong. and try to undone his action. That's when Justice intervenes.

I don't think anybody would say the situation in Kirkwall, in general, wasn't dramatic. Changes were needed (on all levels, since Orsino wasn't fit to lead the mages, for different reasons), but what Anders planned (because he planned it regardless of the path) wasn't the right thing to do in my opinion. For many reasons including the fact that he knew what Meredith would do, and he was willing for countless, innocent mages to die to trigger the change (which in the end was partially irrelevant, since if not for Adrian it'd have been moot).