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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 28, 2017 12:45:25 GMT
There's a lot of valid and justified criticism against many aspects of Andromeda, however. It does NOT mean that you should take the same course as you did with ME2 in response to ME1 criticism. Mako got removed, explorable open maps got removed, entire economy was removed, inventory removed, customization removed etc. You took the feedback way WAY too far in ME2 and/or read it incorrectly, I really don't want this to happen in Andromeda 2/Mass Effect 5, whatever it is and whenever it comes out. 1. Clunky crafting User Interface/Menus criticism does NOT mean we want crafting gone or see it dumbed down. We want it to stay, with exactly as many great customization options as they're there. We simply want improved UI to utilize the crafting possibilites, not whole crafting gone completly or oversimplified and streamlined. Being able to turn weapons into grenade launchers, increase mod slots, add upgrades, classic heat sink is all tons of fun for those who got through the UI and managed to utilize the capabilites of the system. We do NOT want to see it gone from the sequel. 2. Open World busy-work critisicm does NOT mean we want to go back to brown, linear, claustrophobic corridors from ME2. We DO want big maps to stay. Andromeda strikes a perfect balance in the entire serie mixing large maps with smaller levels, all unique (unlike ME1) and fun to explore. Remove some of the pointless busy work like scanning specific plants/minerals. Focus on fewer but meatier large side-quest chains instead. Kadara for example has vastly better structure and side quests compared to Eos or Voeld. 3. Nomad is good, do NOT remove it because a few complained about handling, it was vastly better than Mako in ME1, it's part of the galactic exploration experience and you made it work. Continue to improve it along with improving quest structure and quality on bigger open maps instead of removing the whole thing like you did in ME2. 4. Slow galaxy map travelling and slow mining/scanning/minerals gathering does NOT mean we want to see the whole thing dumbed down or removed. Andromeda has a beautiful galaxy map, it simply needs to be turned up a bit to make the transitions faster. Scanning planets needs to yield better results than +120 Iron, same with scanning with Nomad. Don't remove either, it gives a lot of variety and freedom in ways to obtain resources, simply improve the results and fasten the whole experience (while keeping the economy balance in mind). 5. Economy criticism does NOT mean we want the economy gone compley, like you did in ME2. We want it better balanced and improved, not removed or dumbed down. ITERATE, IMPROVE, FIX. Don't recklessly remove whole systems, streamline the game beyond reason and dumb the whole experience because of some criticism. Also, tagging Tiberius
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In a galaxy far, far away.....
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Post by chugster on Mar 28, 2017 12:58:41 GMT
If only BW would actually read this contructive, useful criticism. BW can be as bad as the trolls on here with their knee-jerk, sledgehammer reactions
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 13:05:20 GMT
Thank the maker for you!
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 28, 2017 13:14:29 GMT
Nah, we don't. That one planet, I can't name due to spoilers, without nomad driving was just fine. Better than another desert with repetitive spawn points, that's for sure.
It's good for it's purpose, but the purpose is to skip empty areas faster, which we don't need to begin with.
We actually do. It gets annoying after fifth time. See what I we are doing here? Good thing BW doesn't bother with reading this forum at the moment.
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Post by Petroshenko on Mar 28, 2017 13:21:49 GMT
It's good for it's purpose, but the purpose is to skip empty areas faster, which we don't need to begin with. We don't need vast maps in a game about space exploration and colonization? Ya suuuuuure? Is small maps really the correct design choice for a game like this?
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 28, 2017 13:29:19 GMT
It's good for it's purpose, but the purpose is to skip empty areas faster, which we don't need to begin with. We don't need vast maps in a game about space exploration and colonization? Ya suuuuuure? Is small maps really the correct design choice for a game like this? Why does everything have to be all or nothing? Why does a game have to either be a huge open world or a claustrophobic corridor? I personally would rather have something in between.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 28, 2017 13:29:25 GMT
It's good for it's purpose, but the purpose is to skip empty areas faster, which we don't need to begin with. We don't need vast maps in a game about space exploration and colonization? Ya suuuuuure? Is small maps really the correct design choice for a game like this? Are we talking about common sense now? I like it. So colony outpost, Remnant Vault and Roekaar base withing five minutes of riding a jeep make sense to you? Or do you call mineral scanning exploration?
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Post by arreyanne on Mar 28, 2017 13:40:12 GMT
Agreed the UI could use an upgrade
The nomad can take a hike, give me a shuttle instead. Since I started the series with ME2 I never finished ME1 because of that stupid Mako Also regretted buying the DLC in ME2 that included that Mako and reinstalled ME2 and never added that DLC
I liked ME2 give me corridors all day
Prefer the Mass Relay scenes to what we have now as someone said earlier after the fifth time it gets a little redundant
Yes the mining could use a boost in rewards, however if they do that expect the crafting material requirement to increase the same %
And yes Im one of those that added the Mother of all mods to ME 2 and ME3 because I dont want to scan planets period
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 13:43:24 GMT
We don't need vast maps in a game about space exploration and colonization? Ya suuuuuure? Is small maps really the correct design choice for a game like this? Are we talking about common sense now? I like it. So colony outpost, Remnant Vault and Roekaar base withing five minutes of riding a jeep make sense to you? Or do you call mineral scanning exploration? Well clearly you're ignoring everything else in between then. There's various side quests, fetch quests(one people can easily ignore if they dislike them)as well as other random things to do in between points. You can gather a lot of extra tud bits of information just by doing things in between. i agree with the op, people want open world maps, huge ones at that(it's why I loved ME1 and was disappointed with ME2+3) It's up to bioware to fill them in correctly. Even then, the corridor style that ME2 and 3 had also had random stuff in between that was pointless or could be done in a matter of seconds getting there. @op: bioware truly just needs to refine this, not make drastic changes once again. The idea of what andromeda is supposed to be is wonderful, they just need to execute it better.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 28, 2017 13:54:11 GMT
Are we talking about common sense now? I like it. So colony outpost, Remnant Vault and Roekaar base withing five minutes of riding a jeep make sense to you? Or do you call mineral scanning exploration? Well clearly you're ignoring everything else in between then. There's various side quests, fetch quests(one people can easily ignore if they dislike them)as well as other random things to do in between points. You can gather a lot of extra tud bits of information just by doing things in between. I'm not ignoring them. The fact that they are scattered all around the place doesn't make areas between them any more meaningful. The part where quest giver and quest objective are 1km apart doesn't give me any thrill either. I don't, now what? Who you are to decide on people's behalf?
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 28, 2017 13:58:31 GMT
There's a lot of valid and justified criticism against many aspects of Andromeda, however. It does NOT mean that you should take the same course as you did with ME2 in response to ME1 criticism. Mako got removed, explorable open maps got removed, entire economy was removed, inventory removed, customization removed etc. You took the feedback way WAY too far in ME2 and/or read it incorrectly, I really don't want this to happen in Andromeda 2/Mass Effect 5, whatever it is and whenever it comes out. 1. Clunky crafting User Interface/Menus criticism does NOT mean we want crafting gone or see it dumbed down. We want it to stay, with exactly as many great customization options as they're there. We simply want improved UI to utilize the crafting possibilites, not whole crafting gone completly or oversimplified and streamlined. Being able to turn weapons into grenade launchers, increase mod slots, add upgrades, classic heat sink is all tons of fun for those who got through the UI and managed to utilize the capabilites of the system. We do NOT want to see it gone from the sequel. 2. Open World busy-work critisicm does NOT mean we want to go back to brown, linear, claustrophobic corridors from ME2. We DO want big maps to stay. Andromeda strikes a perfect balance in the entire serie mixing large maps with smaller levels, all unique (unlike ME1) and fun to explore. Remove some of the pointless busy work like scanning specific plants/minerals. Focus on fewer but meatier large side-quest chains instead. Kadara for example has vastly better structure and side quests compared to Eos or Voeld. 3. Nomad is good, do NOT remove it because a few complained about handling, it was vastly better than Mako in ME1, it's part of the galactic exploration experience and you made it work. Continue to improve it along with improving quest structure and quality on bigger open maps instead of removing the whole thing like you did in ME2. 4. Slow galaxy map travelling and slow mining/scanning/minerals gathering does NOT mean we want to see the whole thing dumbed down or removed. Andromeda has a beautiful galaxy map, it simply needs to be turned up a bit to make the transitions faster. Scanning planets needs to yield better results than +120 Iron, same with scanning with Nomad. Don't remove either, it gives a lot of variety and freedom in ways to obtain resources, simply improve the results and fasten the whole experience (while keeping the economy balance in mind). 5. Economy criticism does NOT mean we want the economy gone compley, like you did in ME2. We want it better balanced and improved, not removed or dumbed down. ITERATE, IMPROVE, FIX. Don't recklessly remove whole systems, streamline the game beyond reason and dumb the whole experience because of some criticism. Also, tagging Tiberius And BioWare, don't forget you are making an RPG, don't have your game design process revolve around what's cool to include! Ground your design process around what make sense in the game setting to make it more immersive, so role playing is actually rewarding.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 14:07:13 GMT
Well clearly you're ignoring everything else in between then. There's various side quests, fetch quests(one people can easily ignore if they dislike them)as well as other random things to do in between points. You can gather a lot of extra tud bits of information just by doing things in between. I'm not ignoring them. The fact that they are scattered all around the place doesn't make areas between them any more meaningful. The part where quest giver and quest objective are 1km apart doesn't give me any thrill either. I don't, now what? Who you are to decide on people's behalf? I won't argue the open spots in between points as in the end there's could be better, even then people can choose to do them or not, they're more so if a bonus anyways. the last thing you quoted me on you're just choosing to put words in my mouth. Not once did I say everyone wants open world. I said many, which is true. I've said I want it, the op said he wants it, and you can very easily look in other threads to see others do as well. I'm not going to play a minority/majority game either. You either like open world or not, I said what I said cuz you said no one wanted open world. if you dont go around bolding "we" and then making your points, and then saying I'm trying to speak for others lol. Please....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 14:12:32 GMT
OP. first they have to give us a game that isn't bugged to hell. Then start worrying about systems.
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 28, 2017 14:22:09 GMT
OP. first they have to give us a game that isn't bugged to hell. Then start worrying about systems. Haha, this is very true
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 28, 2017 14:22:32 GMT
I do agree, BioWare needs to go back and change things to refine and not always take a chainsaw to the problems. I have had problems with Andromeda, but I think it is a great start if they continue down this road they started with Andromeda.
One thing I am thinking though is to improve some areas of the game some might need to be reduced and if they get it to work go back and expand in the future. The one example that I can think of off the top of my head is the character creator. I know some people really enjoy making their own custom avatars for the world, but my belief (and I could be wrong) is that the amount of customization in the character creator impacted the other areas people had issues with as well such as the facial animations. Now I am not saying I want them to go all the way back to a fixed protagonist similar to what Prey is doing with having two set protagonists, but the idea of having a system where elements are fixed such as sizes of the elements such as eyes or the jaw and then picking different mouths, noses, hair styles, etc might be a good way to start to fix other elements without removing them.
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Post by acehilator on Mar 28, 2017 14:25:45 GMT
I have no idea why so many people seem to having trouble with the crafting interface. The only thing I don't like is that you have to use the mouse to switch between tech bases.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 14:28:19 GMT
There's a lot of valid and justified criticism against many aspects of Andromeda, however. It does NOT mean that you should take the same course as you did with ME2 in response to ME1 criticism. Mako got removed, explorable open maps got removed, entire economy was removed, inventory removed, customization removed etc. You took the feedback way WAY too far in ME2 and/or read it incorrectly, I really don't want this to happen in Andromeda 2/Mass Effect 5, whatever it is and whenever it comes out. 1. Clunky crafting User Interface/Menus criticism does NOT mean we want crafting gone or see it dumbed down. We want it to stay, with exactly as many great customization options as they're there. We simply want improved UI to utilize the crafting possibilites, not whole crafting gone completly or oversimplified and streamlined. Being able to turn weapons into grenade launchers, increase mod slots, add upgrades, classic heat sink is all tons of fun for those who got through the UI and managed to utilize the capabilites of the system. We do NOT want to see it gone from the sequel. 2. Open World busy-work critisicm does NOT mean we want to go back to brown, linear, claustrophobic corridors from ME2. We DO want big maps to stay. Andromeda strikes a perfect balance in the entire serie mixing large maps with smaller levels, all unique (unlike ME1) and fun to explore. Remove some of the pointless busy work like scanning specific plants/minerals. Focus on fewer but meatier large side-quest chains instead. Kadara for example has vastly better structure and side quests compared to Eos or Voeld. 3. Nomad is good, do NOT remove it because a few complained about handling, it was vastly better than Mako in ME1, it's part of the galactic exploration experience and you made it work. Continue to improve it along with improving quest structure and quality on bigger open maps instead of removing the whole thing like you did in ME2. 4. Slow galaxy map travelling and slow mining/scanning/minerals gathering does NOT mean we want to see the whole thing dumbed down or removed. Andromeda has a beautiful galaxy map, it simply needs to be turned up a bit to make the transitions faster. Scanning planets needs to yield better results than +120 Iron, same with scanning with Nomad. Don't remove either, it gives a lot of variety and freedom in ways to obtain resources, simply improve the results and fasten the whole experience (while keeping the economy balance in mind). 5. Economy criticism does NOT mean we want the economy gone compley, like you did in ME2. We want it better balanced and improved, not removed or dumbed down. ITERATE, IMPROVE, FIX. Don't recklessly remove whole systems, streamline the game beyond reason and dumb the whole experience because of some criticism. Also, tagging Tiberius I wish there was a post like this after ME1...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 14:30:31 GMT
Thank you OP. I feel exactly like you. BW you built a great game and solid foundations for the next game. Keep what you have done and improve on the top of it.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 14:31:11 GMT
I have no idea why so many people seem to having trouble with the crafting interface. The only thing I don't like is that you have to use the mouse to switch between tech bases. Honestly, on PS4 I had basically no problems with the crafting menu, the only actual issue that comes up with it, is the game slows down and the FPS drops after I exit the terminal, until I walk into another room, where it goes back to normal.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 14:44:14 GMT
I have no idea why so many people seem to having trouble with the crafting interface. The only thing I don't like is that you have to use the mouse to switch between tech bases. It's convoluted or complex. Complexity is fine if done correctly but this game makes it a chore instead of making things easier. One example being if I have a carnifex 5, why give me the option to make ones that are lesser? People aren't going to make lesser versions. If you scrap/delete everything below you it cleans the UI a bit and means you have less to scroll through. Its not just the crafting ui that sucks either, your iwn inventory can be a mess as well if you don't keep up with it. Why do minerals take up space? Why can't weapons be sorted out better? Andromeda has an awful UI in general, the worst one since ME1
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Post by zipzap2000 on Mar 28, 2017 14:53:52 GMT
We can only hope.
Unfortunately its more like asking for a funny looking mole to be removed because it looks funny and you're paranoid, then having the doctor walk in and chop off both your arms for it.
I'm probably being dramatic but you do never know what they've actually taken to heart.
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Post by admiralbonetopickmk2 on Mar 28, 2017 15:02:33 GMT
2. Open World busy-work critisicm does NOT mean we want to go back to brown, linear, claustrophobic corridors from ME2. We DO want big maps to stay. Andromeda strikes a perfect balance in the entire serie mixing large maps with smaller levels, all unique (unlike ME1) and fun to explore. Remove some of the pointless busy work like scanning specific plants/minerals. Focus on fewer but meatier large side-quest chains instead. Kadara for example has vastly better structure and side quests compared to Eos or Voeld. ME2 was not brown or claustrophobic. Far from it. Take its worlds or maps.. ME2 levels and hubs they were extremely atmospheric, often colourful, you really feel in some of those unknown planets and places in the far reaches of the galaxy, or inside an alien ship or even a normal outpost. The universe feels much more large, exspansive and alive, lived in as a result. I mean Illium, Omega, ME2's Citedel, the collector ship, the quarian floatilla, the geth dreadnought, Kasumi's Stolen Memory/Beckenstein, The Layer of the Shadowbroker etc... not huge open worlds, but lot of ambience, depth, context, meaningful details and still big enough to fight there, run, cover, use powers, and decisions, recruitng Garrus on Mega in ME2 for example, you can decide how to protect and attack. The suicide mission also for example, still filled with content, not so big a level, but big enough, you choose who attacks, who protects, who escapes, etc, every detail matters, meaninguful decisions and the perfect ambience and environment, or the streets of omega with sick people, the batarian preacher, no open worlds but small-normal maps dripping in atmosphere, compact with lotsa detail. You dont need the game to be open world for it to be great. Mass Effect 2 is testament to that. And the problem with huge open worlds is that more often than not they are just not interesting to begin with. The bigger something gets often the emptyier it becomes and as a result of this to combat it devs just put a ton of copy paste, shallow crap in to fill it out(as its easier, quicker and cheaper) etc.. You loose the detail and intricacy in going for this huge scope. Its very, very rare that you can go big & open and retain the atmosphere and detail of a small dense map. Bioware dont have the talent to do that imo. So continueing with these huge worlds is not a good thing for Mass Effect. 3. I feel like The Nomad really has no place in Mass Effect. Allow me to elaborate... For one thing its 2685 and beyond.. why are we still using obselete car based technology from 600 years in the past?, When a shuttle is by far the superior means of transportation/weapons platform and makes far more sense from a lore pov and much more logical from a within the mass effect universe pov. Plus a shuttle would be much more fun and immersive imo. Like the shuttle(ie the Kodiak) in my vision would be fully controlled by the player and be used how the Nomad is currently, (and hell you could even have seemless planet/upper atmosphere to surface(and vice versa) travel with a shuttle. How cool would that be to pilot through that to and from the main ship , instead of it being a cutscene or fade to black etc. Little details like that would add so much to the game, the immersion and the space faring. You'd have a lot of possibilities. What about somethling aerial/orbital combat, dogfighting or air to ground combat as well etc etc. But something like the nomad strikes me as much more 1 dimension and restrictive. Infact it does get old really quick tbh. Its dull). Yet there's so much you could do with the concept of a shuttle more so than a dune buggy. Its only there because the maps are so big and barren. Get rid of that, get Bioware back to playing to their strengths and it becomes obselete. The possibilities of a shuttle are so much greater.
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Post by fchopin on Mar 28, 2017 15:15:55 GMT
Bioware does not improve, they only chop.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:22:57 GMT
There's irony in this thread.
The OP is warning Bioware of an overreaction, by overreacting him/herself?
Ie. jumping straight from horrible UI to completely removing entire systems from the game?
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 15:28:40 GMT
2. Open World busy-work critisicm does NOT mean we want to go back to brown, linear, claustrophobic corridors from ME2. We DO want big maps to stay. Andromeda strikes a perfect balance in the entire serie mixing large maps with smaller levels, all unique (unlike ME1) and fun to explore. Remove some of the pointless busy work like scanning specific plants/minerals. Focus on fewer but meatier large side-quest chains instead. Kadara for example has vastly better structure and side quests compared to Eos or Voeld. ME2 was not brown or claustrophobic. Far from it. Take its worlds or maps.. ME2 levels and hubs they were extremely atmospheric, often colourful, you really feel in some of those unknown planets and places in the far reaches of the galaxy, or inside an alien ship or even a normal outpost. The universe feels much more large, exspansive and alive, lived in as a result. I mean Illium, Omega, ME2's Citedel, the collector ship, the quarian floatilla, the geth dreadnought, Kasumi's Stolen Memory/Beckenstein, The Layer of the Shadowbroker etc... not huge open worlds, but lot of ambience, depth, context, meaningful details and still big enough to fight there, run, cover, use powers, and decisions, recruitng Garrus on Mega in ME2 for example, you can decide how to protect and attack. The suicide mission also for example, still filled with content, not so big a level, but big enough, you choose who attacks, who protects, who escapes, etc, every detail matters, meaninguful decisions and the perfect ambience and environment, or the streets of omega with sick people, the batarian preacher, no open worlds but small-normal maps dripping in atmosphere, compact with lotsa detail. You dont need the game to be open world for it to be great. Mass Effect 2 is testament to that. And the problem with huge open worlds is that more often than not they are just not interesting to begin with. The bigger something gets often the emptyier it becomes and as a result of this to combat it devs just put a ton of copy paste, shallow crap in to fill it out(as its easier, quicker and cheaper) etc.. You loose the detail and intricacy in going for this huge scope. Its very, very rare that you can go big & open and retain the atmosphere and detail of a small dense map. Bioware dont have the talent to do that imo. So continueing with these huge worlds is not a good thing for Mass Effect. 3. I feel like The Nomad really has no place in Mass Effect. Allow me to elaborate... For one thing its 2685 and beyond.. why are we still using obselete car based technology from 600 years in the past?, When a shuttle is by far the superior means of transportation/weapons platform and makes far more sense from a lore pov and much more logical from a within the mass effect universe pov. Plus a shuttle would be much more fun and immersive imo. Like the shuttle(ie the Kodiak) in my vision would be fully controlled by the player and be used how the Nomad is currently, (and hell you could even have seemless planet/upper atmosphere to surface(and vice versa) travel with a shuttle. How cool would that be to pilot through that to and from the main ship , instead of it being a cutscene or fade to black etc. Little details like that would add so much to the game, the immersion and the space faring. You'd have a lot of possibilities. What about somethling aerial/orbital combat, dogfighting or air to ground combat as well etc etc. But something like the nomad strikes me as much more 1 dimension and restrictive. Infact it does get old really quick tbh. Its dull). Yet there's so much you could do with the concept of a shuttle more so than a dune buggy. Its only there because the maps are so big and barren. Get rid of that, get Bioware back to playing to their strengths and it becomes obselete. The possibilities of a shuttle are so much greater. I would rather have the Nomad, than Shuttle cutscenes. I say that, because I know for a fact we'll never get anymore shuttle mechanics, the one shuttle section we've gotten moved in 1 dimension just like the Nomad. We'll never get actual space combat or controls, we'll never be moving in 3 dimensions with ships or vehicles. This type of thing is not something that will ever be given that type of attention. That is simply far too much resource commitment when you factor in everything else ME has to include. You are correct from a lore POV about wheeled vehicles seeming out of place in a universe like ME, but I feel like, it's either that, or just travel cutscenes, and I would rather have the Nomad.
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