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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 28, 2017 15:31:08 GMT
We want ME1. On the other hand, we don't want ME1.
As for the Nomad, I like it fine. Better than the goddamn Hammerhead. Bless the reapers for destroying it v
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 15:32:27 GMT
There's irony in this thread. The OP is warning Bioware of an overreaction, by overreacting him/herself? Ie. jumping straight from horrible UI to completely removing entire systems from the game? Which is exactly what Bioware has always done. They don't fix things, they never fix anything except combat. Anytime a feature or mechanic has been received critically, they've always just removed it and moved on to something else. The only exceptions to this rule is planet scanning and the dialogue wheel, which they actually keep around and actually try to refine.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:33:55 GMT
There's irony in this thread. The OP is warning Bioware of an overreaction, by overreacting him/herself? Ie. jumping straight from horrible UI to completely removing entire systems from the game? Which is exactly what Bioware has always done. They don't fix things, they never fix anything except combat. Anytime a feature or mechanic has been received critically, they've always just removed it and moved on to something else. The only exceptions to this rule is planet scanning and the dialogue wheel, which they actually keep around and actually try to refine. Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 28, 2017 15:34:19 GMT
I can get behind this OP. No more overhauls just improvements.
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kaisershep
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 28, 2017 15:35:44 GMT
Which is exactly what Bioware has always done. They don't fix things, they never fix anything except combat. Anytime a feature or mechanic has been received critically, they've always just removed it and moved on to something else. The only exceptions to this rule is planet scanning and the dialogue wheel, which they actually keep around and actually try to refine. Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako. But then years later you can see people going on about how great ME1 was and some people confessing their love for the Mako.
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,091 Likes: 49,937
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 15:38:22 GMT
Which is exactly what Bioware has always done. They don't fix things, they never fix anything except combat. Anytime a feature or mechanic has been received critically, they've always just removed it and moved on to something else. The only exceptions to this rule is planet scanning and the dialogue wheel, which they actually keep around and actually try to refine. Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako. <---Never hated the Mako, rather liked it in fact Also, things that were "streamlined" to a silly degree: Inventory: Clunky in ME1, entirely removed in ME2 Powers: To cumbersome in Me1, stripped to the bone in ME2
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 15:44:02 GMT
Which is exactly what Bioware has always done. They don't fix things, they never fix anything except combat. Anytime a feature or mechanic has been received critically, they've always just removed it and moved on to something else. The only exceptions to this rule is planet scanning and the dialogue wheel, which they actually keep around and actually try to refine. Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako. Except thats untrue, lots of people loved the idea of the Mako, and simply hated the tacked-on, poorly executed way the Mako was done. As a result, planet exploration was massively reduced to tiny areas, that was mostly just made up of shooting galleries and once you cleared the area the mission was over. There is ofc exceptions to this, but that was the majority of "exploration" after ME1.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:50:03 GMT
Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako. <---Never hated the Mako, rather liked it in fact Also, things that were "streamlined" to a silly degree: Inventory: Clunky in ME1, entirely removed in ME2 Powers: To cumbersome in Me1, stripped to the bone in ME2 All rectified in ME3.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:52:04 GMT
Which systems did they remove that people were lukewarm about? The ones they removed were the ones that people absolutely hated and didn't want to see return ever again - ie. The Mako. Except thats untrue, lots of people loved the idea of the Mako, and simply hated the tacked-on, poorly executed way the Mako was done. As a result, planet exploration was massively reduced to tiny areas, that was mostly just made up of shooting galleries and once you cleared the area the mission was over. There is ofc exceptions to this, but that was the majority of "exploration" after ME1. Overwhelming opinion on the Mako was that it was a piece of trash. Didn't help that exploration was equally horrible. There will always be dissenting voices that were in the minority. Can't keep everyone happy
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,091 Likes: 49,937
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 15:52:06 GMT
<---Never hated the Mako, rather liked it in fact Also, things that were "streamlined" to a silly degree: Inventory: Clunky in ME1, entirely removed in ME2 Powers: To cumbersome in Me1, stripped to the bone in ME2 All rectified in ME3. Inventory was. One of the few things I'll say ME3 did well. And MEA appears to have completely forgotten that lesson. Powers were only made slightly better by providing to extra tiers with a choice of two advancements each. Better than what ME2 gave us, but still not a lot of variety.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 15:54:29 GMT
<---Never hated the Mako, rather liked it in fact Also, things that were "streamlined" to a silly degree: Inventory: Clunky in ME1, entirely removed in ME2 Powers: To cumbersome in Me1, stripped to the bone in ME2 All rectified in ME3. Does not change the fact Bioware did what it always does, over correct. They saw ppl didn't like X Y and Z, they totally removed them. People complained X Y and Z was totally gone, they overload the game with it, like now in MEA.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 15:57:38 GMT
Except thats untrue, lots of people loved the idea of the Mako, and simply hated the tacked-on, poorly executed way the Mako was done. As a result, planet exploration was massively reduced to tiny areas, that was mostly just made up of shooting galleries and once you cleared the area the mission was over. There is ofc exceptions to this, but that was the majority of "exploration" after ME1. Overwhelming opinion on the Mako was that it was a piece of trash. Didn't help that exploration was equally horrible. There will always be dissenting voices that were in the minority. Can't keep everyone happy A large reason why the Mako was horrible, was because of how bad the planet design was, everything about their lazy, tacked on design magnified the Makos's problems, because everything was just mountains where you have to go up 85 degree angles
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:57:55 GMT
Does not change the fact Bioware did what it always does, over correct. They saw ppl didn't like X Y and Z, they totally removed them. People complained X Y and Z was totally gone, they overload the game with it, like now in MEA. Inventory and Mako were awful in ME1. They didn't overreact. They course-corrected. Removing systems that you liked, doesn't mean they overreacted. We didn't miss the Mako in 2 and 3
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 15:59:26 GMT
Overwhelming opinion on the Mako was that it was a piece of trash. Didn't help that exploration was equally horrible. There will always be dissenting voices that were in the minority. Can't keep everyone happy A large reason why the Mako was horrible, was because of how bad the planet design was, everything about their lazy, tacked on design magnified the Makos's problems, because everything was just mountains where you have to go up 85 degree angles A decade after it's release, I'm not getting into why people didn't like the Mako. Suffice to say, it had a lot more to do than just simple planet design.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 16:01:05 GMT
Hey, I did want the economy gone from the trilogy. The Alliance or Cerberus should have been picking up the tab for Shepard's equipment.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 16:05:22 GMT
I want crafting gone.
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,091 Likes: 49,937
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 16:07:42 GMT
Does not change the fact Bioware did what it always does, over correct. They saw ppl didn't like X Y and Z, they totally removed them. People complained X Y and Z was totally gone, they overload the game with it, like now in MEA. Inventory and Mako were awful in ME1. They didn't overreact. They course-corrected. Removing systems that you liked, doesn't mean they overreacted. We didn't miss the Mako in 2 and 3 No, they swung too far the other way. The answer to clunky inventory =/= get rid of inventory entirely. It's to make it better.
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#more Asari
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 16:16:50 GMT
Does not change the fact Bioware did what it always does, over correct. They saw ppl didn't like X Y and Z, they totally removed them. People complained X Y and Z was totally gone, they overload the game with it, like now in MEA. Inventory and Mako were awful in ME1. They didn't overreact. They course-corrected. Removing systems that you liked, doesn't mean they overreacted. We didn't miss the Mako in 2 and 3 I would call that overreacting. Rather than trying to actually fix them they just scrapped them entirely which just screams laziness to me. I'm glad we have an inventory system back, but it still needs work. Rather than scrapping it I'd rather they try making it less complicated and organizing it better. Same applies for the crafting system. I don't see how it's not overreacting when other games could do an inventory that worked. The mako itself was awful, it could get stuck, was required to climb large ass frickin mountains, could easily slide off those mountains and have to retry getting up it, etc etc. scrapping it was justified as it was really pointless in ME Due to the hassle and frustration it brought. The nomad is a different matter since it's built different, works better with the environments, and uses the hazard mechanic. The mako wasn't missed in 2 or 3 cuz there was no exploration to do so it would've been pointless to add it.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 16:23:47 GMT
Inventory and Mako were awful in ME1. They didn't overreact. They course-corrected. Removing systems that you liked, doesn't mean they overreacted. We didn't miss the Mako in 2 and 3 I would call that overreacting. Rather than trying to actually fix them they just scrapped them entirely which just screams laziness to me. I'm glad we have an inventory system back, but it still needs work. Rather than scrapping it I'd rather they try making it less complicated and organizing it better. Same applies for the crafting system. I don't see how it's not overreacting when other games could do an inventory that worked. I think it's a trade off. They got rid of systems, but sigificantly improved so many others. ME2 represented an improvement, in almost every way, from ME1. I can't think of a single element or feature in ME2 that wasn't an upgrade over ME1. I didn't mind the streamlined inventory, because ME1's was just a mess.
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I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Mar 28, 2017 16:33:26 GMT
Why? You don't have to use it. Anyway, I agree with the sentiment that Bioware needs to look deeply at the criticism, because they have an unfortunate history of doing a complete 180° when faced with criticism about a topic; nuking it rather than trying to improve it. It would be funny if it wasn't so annoying
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 16:34:28 GMT
I would call that overreacting. Rather than trying to actually fix them they just scrapped them entirely which just screams laziness to me. I'm glad we have an inventory system back, but it still needs work. Rather than scrapping it I'd rather they try making it less complicated and organizing it better. Same applies for the crafting system. I don't see how it's not overreacting when other games could do an inventory that worked. The mako itself was awful, it could get stuck, was required to climb large ass frickin mountains, could easily slide off those mountains and have to retry getting up it, etc etc. scrapping it was justified as it was really pointless in ME Due to the hassle and frustration it brought. The nomad is a different matter since it's built different, works better with the environments, and uses the hazard mechanic. The mako wasn't missed in 2 or 3 cuz there was no exploration to do so it would've been pointless to add it. The problem with "fixing" a system is that the fix usually involves pouring more resources into a system which often wasn't all that important in the first place. The ME1 UNC worlds were cheap by design. They were cheap because the devs had better places to spend their time. Remember, ME1 wasn't about exploration; it was KotOR with a thin exploration glaze on top. If cheap exploration doesn't work, it doesn't necessarily follow that expensive exploration is the answer.
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#more Asari
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 28, 2017 16:34:50 GMT
I would call that overreacting. Rather than trying to actually fix them they just scrapped them entirely which just screams laziness to me. I'm glad we have an inventory system back, but it still needs work. Rather than scrapping it I'd rather they try making it less complicated and organizing it better. Same applies for the crafting system. I don't see how it's not overreacting when other games could do an inventory that worked. I think it's a trade off. They got rid of systems, but sigificantly improved so many others. ME2 represented an improvement, in almost every way, from ME1. I can't think of a single element or feature in ME2 that wasn't an upgrade over ME1. I didn't mind the streamlined inventory, because ME1's was just a mess. I can agree with that, although I didn't like 2 and 3 going more corridor based with few open spaces like ME1 and Andromeda are. I prefer the inventory over what ME2 and 3 did cuz you have to go out if your way to find these weapons as well as being given the ability to craft them. The originals you pretty much just had to find them and you had them the rest of the game, although in ME3 you could add mods plus spend credits on them to upgrade the effectiveness of them. It was to easy if that makes sense. In andromeda it seems (keep in mind I only have 30ish hours and yet to complete the game + it's a completionist run so I'm doing everything I can) you have to pick and choose what weapons you want and you can't afford experimenting to much or else you lose the chance get a certain weapon maxed out all the way. It just feels more rewarding to me with Andromedas system even if it's an unorganized mess. You can probably get most weapons fully upgraded if you was willing to mine every mineral possible but I don't see who'd want to do that. I only do enough to get what I want and I've been using 4 weapons for the most part since getting them.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 16:37:49 GMT
I would call that overreacting. Rather than trying to actually fix them they just scrapped them entirely which just screams laziness to me. I'm glad we have an inventory system back, but it still needs work. Rather than scrapping it I'd rather they try making it less complicated and organizing it better. Same applies for the crafting system. I don't see how it's not overreacting when other games could do an inventory that worked. I think it's a trade off. They got rid of systems, but sigificantly improved so many others. ME2 represented an improvement, in almost every way, from ME1. I can't think of a single element or feature in ME2 that wasn't an upgrade over ME1. I didn't mind the streamlined inventory, because ME1's was just a mess. The main plot was inferior in every way possible, the Lazarus Project shooting the entire settings science and logic out of the airlock, the council retconned into being total morons who suddenly ignore the very thing they pledged to help with at the end of the previous game. The entire game being the Dr Phil simulator, Daddy Issues edition. Cerberus suddenly being an organization with literally infinite money and resources who does nothing right, but still somehow convinces people to come work for them, in other words, being whatever the plots needs them to be in order to advance. Really I could go on all day about how dumb ME2 really is in regards to writing and story. But people overlook all of these things, because of the companions. But don't act like ME2 is an improvement in every way possible. Because thats just laughable.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 28, 2017 16:53:36 GMT
I think it's a trade off. They got rid of systems, but sigificantly improved so many others. ME2 represented an improvement, in almost every way, from ME1. I can't think of a single element or feature in ME2 that wasn't an upgrade over ME1. I didn't mind the streamlined inventory, because ME1's was just a mess. The main plot was inferior in every way possible, the Lazarus Project shooting the entire settings science and logic out of the airlock, the council retconned into being total morons who suddenly ignore the very thing they pledged to help with at the end of the previous game. The entire game being the Dr Phil simulator, Daddy Issues edition. Cerberus suddenly being an organization with literally infinite money and resources who does nothing right, but still somehow convinces people to come work for them, in other words, being whatever the plots needs them to be in order to advance. Really I could go on all day about how dumb ME2 really is in regards to writing and story. But people overlook all of these things, because of the companions. But don't act like ME2 is an improvement in every way possible. Because thats just laughable. Combat? Better Conversations? Better Dialogue? Better Story-telling? Better Missions? Better Ending Mission? Better SIde content? Better Upgradeable elements? Better Morality system? Better THe story is subjective; I personally found the Collectors, and their link to the Protheans and the Reapers, to be far more interesting plot than chasing down Saren, which felt very ham-fisted. I totally understand your issue with the Lazarus Project, but working with Cerberus, who were up until that point, the baddies, was a really interesting twist that I really liked. Did you agree with Cerberus? Or were you using them? I liked that dichotomy. So, yeah. ME2 being a huge improvement on ME1 in almost every way. It's only laughable if you are a hater.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 16:58:13 GMT
The main plot was inferior in every way possible, the Lazarus Project shooting the entire settings science and logic out of the airlock, the council retconned into being total morons who suddenly ignore the very thing they pledged to help with at the end of the previous game. The entire game being the Dr Phil simulator, Daddy Issues edition. Cerberus suddenly being an organization with literally infinite money and resources who does nothing right, but still somehow convinces people to come work for them, in other words, being whatever the plots needs them to be in order to advance. Really I could go on all day about how dumb ME2 really is in regards to writing and story. But people overlook all of these things, because of the companions. But don't act like ME2 is an improvement in every way possible. Because thats just laughable. Combat? Better Conversations? Better Dialogue? Better Story-telling? Better Missions? Better Ending Mission? Better SIde content? Better Upgradeable elements? Better Morality system? Better THe story is subjective; I personally found the Collectors, and their link to the Protheans and the Reapers, to be far more interesting plot than chasing down Saren, which felt very ham-fisted. I totally understand your issue with the Lazarus Project, but working with Cerberus, who were up until that point, the baddies, was a really interesting twist that I really liked. Did you agree with Cerberus? Or were you using them? I liked that dichotomy. So, yeah. ME2 being a huge improvement on ME1 in almost every way. It's only laughable if you are a hater. And with that, good sir, I am done engaging you. Because that is the mindset of someone who refuses to actually have a debate, and believes they are correct no matter what. Good day.
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