Not curing the Genophage: The reason you're a heartless monster.

And that's what I am getting at. For all anyone knew, Palaven could have fell at any time and the galaxy's hopes of not all dying a horrible death would have been extinguished. Using leverage to garner a cure out everyone will mean nothing if the one species with the capabilities to fight the Reapers to a standstill goes up in flames. That's the whole core of what's wrong with the Genophage arc, how many more people would we have saved if the Krogan had been deployed immediately after the initial meeting on board the Normandy? Even if the lives of civilians are inconsequential consider how many capital ships, how many supply lines, how many resources etc. the galaxy could have preserved for further conflict with the Reapers. How long did the Tuchunka plot line take? Days? Weeks? A month maybe? And all during that time the galaxy's most effective military armada (outside of the final battle) is whittled down more and more. 

What's more, how is this going to look for situations after the war? The Krogan have their Genophage cured, but they let the rest of the galaxy burn for a while before they got involved in the collective effort to defeat the Reapers.  Are the other species going to be more or less willing to give them anymore concessions after that whole stunt? Say Wrex wants new planets for his people, is the galaxy going to do that when the delay of aid caused even more death and destruction on their home worlds than was necessary? Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that the Krogan would be the worst species in the galaxy for mucking things up for everyone else during the Reaper war; that would most likely be the Asari and Salarian governments; but they would be far from the most helpful.




Slightly off topic here, but out of all the various aliens contributing to the fight against the Reapers, I would say that the Turians and Rachni were the most willing to co-operate, and most willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause of everyone else. Humans and Quarians would be next, humans because of that whole Cerberus thing, as well as trying to take back Earth when it held absolutely no significance to the war effort, and the Quarians for deciding to embroil themselves in a war with the Geth without even bothering to tell anyone else of their plans. After them would be the Batarians and the Krogan, the Batarians for targeting the human ships and personnel out of a moronic sense of revenge and racism, and the Krogan for leaving the rest of the galaxy out to dry until the cure was deployed. And lastly, the Salairan and Asari governments, both of which held back valuable information and resources from the galaxy for petty reasons. 

One could look at it a you have, but as you said the Salarians and Asari do the same thing, so the Krogan aren't really special with regard to taking care of the their own affairs while the Turians fight for their home world. They seem as calculating and ruthless as the those other two when the need arises. For that matter, the Tuchanka bomb left for a 1000 years doesn't make the Turians look less ruthless either, just suddenly more sympathetic because they're in a position of need. The Quarians aren't that much better in this regard since they force Shepard to secure Rannoch before joining as well, almost getting Shepard killed in the process with friendly fire by firing on the Geth Dreadnaught. One could look at them as holding their fleet hostage to the Geth and Rannoch.

Using the rationale you've laid out though, the argument from the Krogan perspective it is something like, "I should go help Palaven because their fleet is worth more than my home world which is being poisoned by a Reaper, and I should trust the Salarians to develop and deliver the Genophage cure, which they stole, based on their word." If the Krogan are known for brutality, then the Salarians are known for being devious, with a leadership overtly arguing for the cure to be withheld. It seems unrealistic for a rational Krogan to accept that a cure would be deployed just based on their word.

The argument could be simplified to something like, "I need a help the Turians and Humans regardless of the fate of my own species because if they fall, my species will be wiped out." This seems unrealistic just because it is would be unbelievably idealistic and selfless for any government to take that position. Like the Quarians without Rannoch, the Krogan don't see a future without the Genophage cure, and once they have it they join the fight.

Now, before we get into a whole "well those situations are different because... reasons" your argument was the Krogan allowed Palaven to burn and lose resources. Its pretty clear that there are at least three other far more technologically capable factions that do the same thing, and decided to go do something else. Whereas I guess you think these others are doing something worthwhile while the Krogan are "twiddling their thumbs", securing intelligence on Eve, and Aralakh company operating near Rachni space are at least two examples of the Krogan government, what little of it that there is, busy handling their own business.

>"which were subsequently rendered into ecological disasters"
is there a citation or this? I didn't find anything on the wikia.

The Krogan suffered massive explosive population growth due to their species biology between 300-700 CE when they began to colonize other worlds outside the Aralakh system including former Rachni territories and former colonies ravaged by the Rachni. But before that, they've served the Salarian and Asari to fight against the Rachni for centuries. The Krogan turned against the council because over the centuries they grew frustrated with the galactic politics and the council aggravate the situation further by sending their newly made Spectres to strike against the Krogan and then striking alliance with the Turians to save their collective asses when the krogan retaliate. The Krogan could have win the war if it wasn't for the turians unleashing the genophage on Tuchanka. 

This is why it was considered a war crime. Its a very specific attack on krogan children by a highly advanced alien race that decide their entire species is worthless unless the adults are leashed and subdued. The Krogan might have been a seemingly violent race but they're very protective of their young. The genophage effectively destroyed their future, fractured their people especially the females. All these for the benefits of the Salarian and the Asari to keep their canon fodder in line for the next war and not threatening their status in galactic politics.

And it took only 30 years for humans to expand from the Alliance space to Citadel space, the Traverse and the edge of Terminus system. Many human colonies have millions and hundreds of thousands inhabitants occupying outer colonies in contested region that the council races didn't dared to live, without the convenience, resources and defenses against invaders, slavers and pirates. Humanity dominance is a threat to the galactic politics and other races became increasingly paranoid over it especially the Batarians. The incidents on Mindoir, Blitz and Eden Prime became the reason why the Alliance Systems are so desperate to put a human Spectre as consideration even if the council never accepted anyone outside Salarian, Asari and Turians since its inception. If it wasn't for the reapers, humanity could easily ended up like what they did with the krogan.

Well yes, the vast majority of the advanced species were being complete and utter morons during the time of Reaper invasion. With the exception of the Rachni and Turians, every other species capable of fighting was focused on themselves rather than the big picture. Whether that be humanity and our idiotic "Take Back Earth" spiel (prior to the Citadel being moved there), the Asari and their hiding of the beacon, the Quarians and their starting of a war with the Geth, the Krogan and their refusal to send aid until the cure was deployed, etc. It's a miracle that the allied forces survived as long as they all did with the amount of idiot balls being passed around. 

And as unfortunate as the notion might be, yes, certain species were worth more in the fight than others. The Hanar and Elcor, for example, had no effective means of combating the Reapers so they were ignored by the galaxy for the most part. They should be saved if possible of course, but what good would it have done anybody if the Elcor ambassador had coerced the council races to drop everything they were doing, and conduct a mass evacuation of Dekuna? The same logic applies to the Krogan and their situation, forcing the galaxy to cure them is only weakening the galaxy's attempts to defend itself. Boots on the ground aren't going to win the war, but it will help free up the fleets necessary to defend the Crucible and stop the Reapers, thereby saving the Krogan and Elcor and Hanar from extinction in the process.

Garvug was still rendered an ecological disaster though. It doesn't matter that it was a throwback world for the Krogan; it was still miles better than what Tuchunka had to offer; the fact of the matter is that they devastated it, used up all of its resources and then proceeded to move on 'looking for other worlds to consume'. If they can't be trusted with a second-rate planet, what makes you think that they would do any better with a pristine garden world? In addition, us humans have worked to stop or fix ecological damage to Earth, the Krogan nuked their home planet, sucked another one dry, and went about asking (see taking) more worlds without bothering to clean up their original holdings.


Yes, the strike was preemptive but talks had broken down at that point. The Krogan weren't going to budge, and any official sort of action by the Council would have lead to hostilities anyway, better to strike while they were ahead and hopefully force the Krogan to see reason. As you will note, those targets of the Spectres were primarily military targets, designed to cripple the Krogan war machine; the Krogan weren't so selective in their choice of targets.

And the Turians were turned to as allies during a time of all out war, of course there would be fighting happening. You will notice though, that the Turians didn't actively start to 'bear down' on the Krogan with the intent to stop them from ever being a threat ever again, until after they dropped asteroids on their planets. 

One would think dropping asteroids on 3 entire worlds to wipe out turian children along with the adults was explanation enough about how much the Krogan cared about what they were doing to other species. Considering the genophage wasn't deployed by a Council race, blaming them is misplaced. The Salarians built it but only intended to use it as leverage, not actually deploy it. Considering that the Turians had just had entire worlds of their people destroyed (which does count as acts of genocide by the krogan), it's not surprising they'd release something that only curbs the numbers. Before that, the Council races kept their tactics surgically focused on the enemy without causing collateral damage to the entire planet. War is ugly, but the krogan forced their hand.
And according to Okeer and the Patriarch, krogan children were only truly valued AFTER the genophage. Before, they were replaceable shock troops given shoddy armor and weapons to overwhelm enemies.

Well, You can't say the Krogans don't go all in when they actually do something. 

Civilian casualties happened. Children died horribly in war even right now at this moment. First world countries ravaging third world countries dropping bombs with a push of a button. But nobody is targeting pregnant mothers specifically as a political deterrence.

The Rebellion only lasted 300 years but since then, the Council Races specifically kill 99% of children of the species for over 1000+ years. This is a very specific attack with a clear intent.

Does this sound rational that a technologically superior society and governance reduced to continuously killing children and attacking women of a lesser undeveloped species because their babies could grow up to be an annoyance in a century. Its already a species of skewed gender ratio; 1 out of 1000 live birth are female out of 1 every 1000 of successful pregnancy.

Yeah, the design of the Krogan, biologically speaking, makes zero sense.

Really the Genophage, from a universe creation standpoint, is the only thing that keeps their insane biology down to a more realistic level. Without it, you are practically looking at Mass Effect's version of the Tyranids.

Yeah I never got what Star Trek fans find so fascinating about the Klingons; or why every show (it seems) has to have one as a notable cast member. I'm surprised that after about the second interstellar war the Klingon Empire started "because they were bored" the rest of the galaxy didn't nuke them back to the stone age; it certainly would have saved a lot of lives in the long run as well as removed about half of those episodes devoted to "Klingons have violent tendencies" plot lines.  The same could be said of the Cardasians. 


And 1,000 years is not very long to a Krogan. Wrex is only one generation removed from the Rebellions, and many more members of the population were alive during the time of the fighting. Heck, the Patriarch is a veteran of the Rachni Wars, and he's still pretty lively. The comparison to Japan is not completely actuate, as they had several generations pass from the time of the bombs being dropped to the present, plus, Japan has been a strong ally of the United States since then and a productive member of worldwide society. Not so much with the Krogan, most of them are still longing for the 'glory days' of the rebellions; with most being alive during the time of the fighting. What's more, they haven't really tried to acclimate themselves with the rest of galactic society during that time.

The Turians are what, 50 generations removed from the deploying of the Genophage? They don't even have great, great, great, great, great grandparents that can remember back that far. All they know is that they have grown up with a Krogan society that hates them. The Krogan are, at most, 2 generations removed, with many of them able to give first hand accounts of their actions during the war.

There's a difference between targeting living, breathing children who are aware of what's about to be inflicted upon them over keeping an unborn fetus from ever developing the nervous system to suffer in the first place.
Krogan mothers weren't targeted to cause emotional damage to witnesses the way the krogan intended when they dropped asteroids on entire planets. They were targeted to cut off birthing more soldiers who'd be trained to commit more atrocities upon other children. Why should Council races' progeny be given less priority over the aggressors who refused to cooperate and develop their own societies, who didn't even treasure their own kids until the genophage made them work for every birth? When the krogan didn't even care about their own kids murdering each other in clutches, why should Council races be vilified for keeping their numbers in check for them? It's not like the Krogan have been promising to change ever since, right down to clan Weyrloc still making threats to throw the entire Citadel into the sun, regardless of who's still on there.

Which, in turn, would explain why they're so violent.  It was necessary in order to survive Tuchanka.