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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 13:48:37 GMT
P/R system may stay where it is, but current system isn't satisfying either. They should either add "Renegade" tone or make current ones act differently in different cirsumstances, i.e. being "Professional" with exiles should differ from being "Professional" with your superiours from Nexus. And vice versa.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 2, 2017 13:48:46 GMT
That's basically it. I did like it to a certain extent. I knew they'd move on from Paragon and Renegade and I was perfectly fine with it and looked forward to a new system. But what we got in reality is just "4 shades or Paragon", how someone on here said it accurately. I know this system from Dragon Age, but even there it's with more distinct tone choices, especially in DA2. It's not that I can't live with it since before playing ME I was always a goody-two-shoes character, but ME gave me distinct choices and it was actually fun to mix those up in my playthroughs. Shaping a character with distinct options is great to have and can only benefit a protagonist's development. Others are always fine with playing Paragon, and that's okay. But it wouldn't really hurt to add some more tone choices for those who prefer to play someone a little more exciting. I'm sure they could've come up with sensible "renegade-y" tones that would still fit with MEA's story. People always say Renegade Shep felt like a psycho, but to me, most of the interrupts we got in MEA felt more psycho. It didn't feel that good to use them when Ryder is being presented as the nice guy all the time. Since this game is about colonialism let us act like it. Genocide, pillage, enslavement, not this apologia for a horrendous historic evil. Why? The reason those atrocities happened was because the people back then didn't know any better and were evil vile people. The people who went with the Initiative aren't very likely to commit those types of things. Honestly the things you mentioned not even renegade shep would go that far.
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Post by vilegrim on Apr 2, 2017 13:56:22 GMT
Since this game is about colonialism let us act like it. Genocide, pillage, enslavement, not this apologia for a horrendous historic evil. Why? The reason those atrocities happened was because the people back then didn't know any better and were evil vile people. The people who went with the Initiative aren't very likely to commit those types of things. Honestly the things you mentioned not even renegade shep would go that far. No, those things happened because they are exactly what it takes to do what the Initiative wants to do, you want to settle a new galaxy? The current occupants need to be broken, in such a way as to never challenge you again. Any other method of doing that is suicide, either go in and do it, or do not start a colonization effort. Colonialism is armed robbery writ large, that is all it has ever and can ever be.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2017 14:01:09 GMT
The whole conqueror angle is stupid. Even if the Andromeda Initiative actually sent warships alongside the arks, they would essentially be fighting 2 fronts in totally unfamiliar territory against 2 factions that have them laughably outnumbered. The angara are armed and have entrenched positions around Heleus, and they've been holding their own against an enemy that has an actual empire beyond the cluster, and we'd be fighting them as well. There is no success to be had in such a scenario, and the MW aliens would die in space.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 2, 2017 14:07:22 GMT
The whole conqueror angle is stupid. Even if the Andromeda Initiative actually sent warships alongside the arks, they would essentially be fighting 2 fronts in totally unfamiliar territory against 2 factions that have them laughably outnumbered. The angara are armed and have entrenched positions around Heleus, and they've been holding their own against an enemy that has an actual empire beyond the cluster, and we'd be fighting them as well. There is no success to be had in such a scenario, and the MW aliens would die in space. Exactly, there is no benefit to antagonizing the Angara or anything else in the system.
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Post by vilegrim on Apr 2, 2017 14:09:11 GMT
The whole conqueror angle is stupid. Even if the Andromeda Initiative actually sent warships alongside the arks, they would essentially be fighting 2 fronts in totally unfamiliar territory against 2 factions that have them laughably outnumbered. The angara are armed and have entrenched positions around Heleus, and they've been holding their own against an enemy that has an actual empire beyond the cluster, and we'd be fighting them as well. There is no success to be had in such a scenario, and the MW aliens would die in space. Yes they would, if they did it that way, if they did the 'ally with Angara then spineshank them later' they could pull it of, divide and conquer, then annihilate and rule, or in a few weeks months or maybe years they do it to you.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 14:12:49 GMT
The whole conqueror angle is stupid. Even if the Andromeda Initiative actually sent warships alongside the arks, they would essentially be fighting 2 fronts in totally unfamiliar territory against 2 factions that have them laughably outnumbered. The angara are armed and have entrenched positions around Heleus, and they've been holding their own against an enemy that has an actual empire beyond the cluster, and we'd be fighting them as well. There is no success to be had in such a scenario, and the MW aliens would die in space. Well, that's not really true. Angara weren't dealing with Kett empire, merely it's expedition force, and they kept loosing ground while doing so. Kadara is clear enough illustration on all this, the planet was lost and they couldn't even take it back. They are surely useful to have on your side, but they were doomed without Nexus assistance. P.s. outnumbered part is only applies to Kett, since angara afraid of being outnumber when all colonists wake up, I assume their numbers aren't that high. The game never gives solid numbers unfortunately.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 2, 2017 14:14:37 GMT
The whole conqueror angle is stupid. Even if the Andromeda Initiative actually sent warships alongside the arks, they would essentially be fighting 2 fronts in totally unfamiliar territory against 2 factions that have them laughably outnumbered. The angara are armed and have entrenched positions around Heleus, and they've been holding their own against an enemy that has an actual empire beyond the cluster, and we'd be fighting them as well. There is no success to be had in such a scenario, and the MW aliens would die in space. Yes they would, if they did it that way, if they did the 'ally with Angara then spineshank them later' they could pull it of, divide and conquer, then annihilate and rule. Yeah, I don't think a lot of thought was really put into how this would work, and how much could be invested in creating this branch in the narrative. The betrayal path would have to extend the story, but it would obviously be much shorter if you don't. So no, this doesn't work.
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Post by vilegrim on Apr 2, 2017 14:15:52 GMT
Yes they would, if they did it that way, if they did the 'ally with Angara then spineshank them later' they could pull it of, divide and conquer, then annihilate and rule. Yeah, I don't think a lot of thought was really put into how this would work, and how much could be invested in creating this branch in the narrative. The betrayal path would have to extend the story, but it would obviously be much shorter if you don't. So no, this doesn't work. Neither does the happy clappy narrative we have now.
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Post by fraggle on Apr 2, 2017 14:21:18 GMT
That's basically it. I did like it to a certain extent. I knew they'd move on from Paragon and Renegade and I was perfectly fine with it and looked forward to a new system. But what we got in reality is just "4 shades or Paragon", how someone on here said it accurately. I know this system from Dragon Age, but even there it's with more distinct tone choices, especially in DA2. It's not that I can't live with it since before playing ME I was always a goody-two-shoes character, but ME gave me distinct choices and it was actually fun to mix those up in my playthroughs. Shaping a character with distinct options is great to have and can only benefit a protagonist's development. Others are always fine with playing Paragon, and that's okay. But it wouldn't really hurt to add some more tone choices for those who prefer to play someone a little more exciting. I'm sure they could've come up with sensible "renegade-y" tones that would still fit with MEA's story. People always say Renegade Shep felt like a psycho, but to me, most of the interrupts we got in MEA felt more psycho. It didn't feel that good to use them when Ryder is being presented as the nice guy all the time. Yeah I could never play Shepard as renegade as it didn't fit what the type of character I wanted to play as. "4 shades of paragon' I like how you put this and I agree but if that is a case should they add 4 shades of renegade then? I never played a full Renegade either, but had a blast with Renegon or Paragade. I don't really think they should add 4 Renegade options, but out of the 4 Paragon options we currently have, they should make one sassy/sarcastic, one diplomatic/professional, one confident/aggressive and one emotional/whatever. The closest to this would be the system of Dragon Age 2, a lot of people liked it and I think those are the distinctive choices that Ryder could've benefit from. Hawke's lines changed based on which tones you select, and that's a system I would've actually liked a lot when they said they're moving away from Paragon and Renegade. But anyways, should there be a second MEA game, I hope they'll consider it this time. Until then I'm trying to have fun with my boy scout and his occasional impulsive behaviour
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 2, 2017 14:26:33 GMT
Yeah I could never play Shepard as renegade as it didn't fit what the type of character I wanted to play as. "4 shades of paragon' I like how you put this and I agree but if that is a case should they add 4 shades of renegade then? I never played a full Renegade either, but had a blast with Renegon or Paragade. I don't really think they should add 4 Renegade options, but out of the 4 Paragon options we currently have, they should make one sassy/sarcastic, one diplomatic/professional, one confident/aggressive and one emotional/whatever. The closest to this would be the system of Dragon Age 2, a lot of people liked it and I think those are the distinctive choices that Ryder could've benefit from. Hawke's lines changed based on which tones you select, and that's a system I would've actually liked a lot when they said they're moving away from Paragon and Renegade. But anyways, should there be a second MEA game, I hope they'll consider it this time. Until then I'm trying to have fun with my boy scout and his occasional impulsive behaviour Hm that could really work yeah I would like to see that system implemented in the next game.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 14:48:13 GMT
You want Bioware to copy Shepard, because that's how you make Bioware copy Shepard
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 2, 2017 14:53:11 GMT
You want Bioware to copy Shepard, because that's how you make Bioware copy Shepard Hell no, Shepard didn't have much personality outside of 'good guy' and 'prick' Ryder has much more personality than Shepard has. What I want is a middle ground where the ME:A system stays the same but has options for those who like to play "Paragon or Renegade' thats all I meant
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 14:57:25 GMT
You want Bioware to copy Shepard, because that's how you make Bioware copy Shepard Hell no, Shepard didn't have much personality outside of 'good guy' and 'prick' Ryder has much more personality than Shepard has. What I want is a middle ground where the ME:A system stays the same but has options for those who like to play "Paragon or Renegade' thats all I meant I know what you meant but if that system is restored I don't think it will work out as you hope it would
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 15:02:25 GMT
Im gonna vote yes for this, but PARTLY I dont like having points that unlock conversation options at all, but I like to be able to choose the tone of my characters... my favorite games have something similar, like DA2 with all the different types of Hawke you can get, and SWTOR with light side/dark side options... I think DA2 did it best to be honest Apart from a few combat problems, the other thing I dont really like about MEA is Ryder, and the lack of... well, anything in conversations... there are times when the options are REALLY similar, like when talking to Cora one time there were 2 slightly different worded options basically saying "Move on"... professional and emotional really doesnt have that much effect at all, and it kinda sucks But at the same time, id kinda describe Ryder as a weak-ish character, she doesnt have the same character that other protagonists have had... I havent really been able to decide what type of person she is, its like its already planned out... I think the biggest thing that explores what kind of person Ryder is is the decision whether to kill or capture a bug on the nexus, nothing else seems to express anything close to personality But its also partly down to the voice actress I think... I like her voice, but I kinda bundle the Inquisitor and Ryder together because... well... the female voices at least dont really feel to have... the right amount of strength I guess??? They dont feel like powerful, leadership type voices, they feel more suited for characters who are scared young girls... I keep choosing logical/professional options hoping for SOMETHING a little bad ass, like Shepard in ME2... I remember her saying something like "You can fight at my side or get crushed under my heel, but you wont stand in my way"... the renegade option for the Tali/Legion fight I think??? I got goosebumps, I was there like "OH MY GOD SHES SO HAWT/AMAZING" but there isnt anything close to that in MEA, and its kinda disappointing I like to have a few bad ass moments here and there, it makes me happy whether its in conversation or gameplay, like I had a diplomatic Hawke in DA2 but the end of act 2 with the fight against the Arishok, THAT was awesome... but like... a big part of an rpg is having the ability to do bad things, I dont ALWAYS do them, like I had a diplomatic Hawke in DA2, Shepard in my playthrough of the ME trilogy is like 50/50 paragon/renegade (although I think edging towards paragon in ME3 so far), my Inquisitor is generally a pretty nice person... but its still an important part to have that CHOICE and freedom in the characters I want to make, and its where Ryder/MEA falls down, I cant decide anything about Ryder... not her backstory, barely her personality, and only a little bit of her face... it just feels like I can change her makeup and her wording of things sometimes, and although the environments are very non-linear and open world, the dialogue options and basically everything else that ive encountered so far does feel very linear and pre-planned and dont let me explore the character that Ive made I feel that MEA generally draws inspiration from DAI and ME1, whereas I kinda feel that it should have gone for a more DA2/ME2 route... I love the game, but yeah, those are my thoughts so far I always say that theres 1 voice actress that Id like to see as a ME/DA protagonist, and thats Xanthe Elbrick who voiced the female sith inquisitor in SWTOR... I love her voice so much, and I think shed be great
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 2, 2017 15:45:12 GMT
I do like the current system but there are times were a clear renegade choice is needed.
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Post by code99 on Apr 2, 2017 15:53:03 GMT
I actually liked the paragon/renegade system. Currently you cant really be anything but a carebear if you know what i mean (except for few exceptions).
I want to be "bad"-ish and not kiss everyones butt ... seriously, the current system is lackluster. Im about 40 hours in and i can count on my fingers how many times i could be somewhat "mean" to other people.
At least with the renegade/paragon system you could play the way you wanted and react to situations accordingly. Everything you say in ME:A is pretty much the same, no variations.
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Post by Kimberly on Apr 2, 2017 15:54:31 GMT
I mostly like it as is. I want renegade interrupts. There were times when I thought why can't I punch you in the face? Or shoot you?
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Post by gnperdue on Apr 2, 2017 16:12:05 GMT
I prefer the new system. Paragon/Renegade was a cool idea ("process matters" vs "the ends justify the means"), but Renegade options mostly boiled down into being a bad teammate, a jerk, or downright evil. Too hard to pull off correctly.
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Post by vilegrim on Apr 2, 2017 16:16:48 GMT
I prefer the new system. Paragon/Renegade was a cool idea ("process matters" vs "the ends justify the means"), but Renegade options mostly boiled down into being a bad teammate, a jerk, or downright evil. Too hard to pull off correctly. Where as the new system involves being the mindless drudge of a LG boy scout, the least interesting alignment and personality type in fiction, oh yay capt america again...lets have that personality ruin yet another story, lets be forced into being a Paladin...well screw that I want to be as the paladins actuially WHERE the guys who slit the throats of four and a half thousand prisoners because Charlemagne ordered it all the while singing hymns and anthems, or a hero, like Odysseus and Achilles, like Jason and Hector , seriously if THIS is the best the milky way has, it would have been a better and more interesting story to play the twin in the coma, (s)he had better more varied RP choices.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 2, 2017 16:35:33 GMT
I prefer the new system. Paragon/Renegade was a cool idea ("process matters" vs "the ends justify the means"), but Renegade options mostly boiled down into being a bad teammate, a jerk, or downright evil. Too hard to pull off correctly. Where as the new system involves being the mindless drudge of a LG boy scout, the least interesting alignment and personality type in fiction, oh yay capt america again...lets have that personality ruin yet another story, lets be forced into being a Paladin...well screw that I want to be as the paladins actuially WHERE the guys who slit the throats of four and a half thousand prisoners because Charlemagne ordered it all the while singing hymns and anthems, or a hero, like Odysseus and Achilles, like Jason and Hector , seriously if THIS is the best the milky way has, it would have been a better and more interesting story to play the twin in the coma, (s)he had better more varied RP choices. Pass. We've grown up and don't act like that any more. Sure, an occasional grunt will go nuts, but you're never going to get official sanction for this sort of thing.
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 2, 2017 16:46:11 GMT
I prefer the new system. Paragon/Renegade was a cool idea ("process matters" vs "the ends justify the means"), but Renegade options mostly boiled down into being a bad teammate, a jerk, or downright evil. Too hard to pull off correctly. Where as the new system involves being the mindless drudge of a LG boy scout, the least interesting alignment and personality type in fiction, oh yay capt america again...lets have that personality ruin yet another story, lets be forced into being a Paladin...well screw that I want to be as the paladins actuially WHERE the guys who slit the throats of four and a half thousand prisoners because Charlemagne ordered it all the while singing hymns and anthems, or a hero, like Odysseus and Achilles, like Jason and Hector , seriously if THIS is the best the milky way has, it would have been a better and more interesting story to play the twin in the coma, (s)he had better more varied RP choices. Jesus dude take it down a notch will ya. Renegade is about being a badass who is a bit of a prick at times not a bloodthirsty villain.
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Post by vilegrim on Apr 2, 2017 16:50:06 GMT
Where as the new system involves being the mindless drudge of a LG boy scout, the least interesting alignment and personality type in fiction, oh yay capt america again...lets have that personality ruin yet another story, lets be forced into being a Paladin...well screw that I want to be as the paladins actuially WHERE the guys who slit the throats of four and a half thousand prisoners because Charlemagne ordered it all the while singing hymns and anthems, or a hero, like Odysseus and Achilles, like Jason and Hector , seriously if THIS is the best the milky way has, it would have been a better and more interesting story to play the twin in the coma, (s)he had better more varied RP choices. Pass. We've grown up and don't act like that any more. Sure, an occasional grunt will go nuts, but you're never going to get official sanction for this sort of thing. Then the Initiative dies. That simple. You cannot run a colonization effort without genocide, you have to go in and BREAK the locals, so that they cannot resist, either out of fear or actual subjugation. Since the Initiative is so small it would have to go with 'cut and replace' colonization, as what attempted in Australia, Thanix cannons and orbital bombardment with multi-megaton effective rail guns, then when the dust clears mop up the survivors and found the colonies. The realistic end to ME:A is the Angara slitting throats to stop the merest chance of the Initiative 'doing a Kett', in fact, that would have been an awesome end to a paragon play-thru, with naive optimism leading to failure.
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Post by auu on Apr 2, 2017 16:50:54 GMT
I would like more renegade and paragon options, but the bars and the point metagame can go take a hike.
Ryder is boring. His/her answers to conflict IS boring.
I miss being a god damn space marine.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Apr 2, 2017 17:02:20 GMT
I don't want the paragon-renegade restored. However I wish there were more options in conversations, instead of just saying "Yes" 4 different ways. Some "yes" and some "no" would be nice. It'd be nice to be able to be a dick to people, and it doesn't seem like you can really.
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