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Post by sdzald on Apr 3, 2017 19:29:45 GMT
A couple of things to keep in mind. Why send her on the trip just to kill her? All the leadership was not murdered, they were caught up in the Scourge, most like it was a single murder that took advantage of the chaos.
I know Alec supposedly was not wakened for 14 months after the murder but whose to say for certain, computer records that SAM controls?
How did Garson know someone was trying to kill her?
My money is on Alec as the murder, for political reasons, he may not even had meant to kill her. There was a core group of people awakened some time before reaching Andromeda. Those people were the real power behind the Initiative and some kind of power struggle or basic mission objectives became a point of contention.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 3, 2017 19:31:22 GMT
My money is on Alec as the murder, for political reasons, he may not even had meant to kill her. There was a core group of people awakened some time before reaching Andromeda. Those people were the real power behind the Initiative and some kind of power struggle or basic mission objectives became a point of contention. With all respect. Did you miss the part where Alec was light years away during the murder?
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sdzald
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Post by sdzald on Apr 3, 2017 19:57:59 GMT
My money is on Alec as the murder, for political reasons, he may not even had meant to kill her. There was a core group of people awakened some time before reaching Andromeda. Those people were the real power behind the Initiative and some kind of power struggle or basic mission objectives became a point of contention. With all respect. Did you miss the part where Alec was light years away during the murder? According to who? Computer records? Yea SAM doesn't control or manipulate them. Are we CERTAIN that the Ark Hyperion wasn't there before we were told. Look I know that is a very long stretch and would be bad story writing, but then this is Bioware and Mr. Walters we are talking about. But ok you changed my mind, maybe he didn't have any thing to do with it. Ok then my money is the Janitor because she wouldn't give him a raise.
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Post by vyndral on Apr 3, 2017 20:10:20 GMT
With all respect. Did you miss the part where Alec was light years away during the murder? According to who? Computer records? Yea SAM doesn't control or manipulate them. Are we CERTAIN that the Ark Hyperion wasn't there before we were told. Look I know that is a very long stretch and would be bad story writing, but then this is Bioware and Mr. Walters we are talking about. But ok you changed my mind, maybe he didn't have any thing to do with it. Ok then my money is the Janitor because she wouldn't give him a raise. Bah! I like your original theory. We actually know nothing of the time while we were asleep. No one would. So the Nexus arrives with a Ark right behind it. Obviously SAM is driving both. Alec crosses over to kill Jien but the rest of the crew start waking up for arrival and Alec is afraid they will be caught. So he kills Jien then Has Sam pilot the Nexus into the scourge to cover their exit. He then leaves the system and goes back into cryo so he can wake up in a couple months with everyone else! Ya-da! I know it makes no sense. But im pretty sure whatever they say did happen wont make much sense either.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 6, 2017 14:52:54 GMT
With all due respect to the writers of Nexus Uprising, which I loved, we can't rely on it at all. The events in it directly contradict how those events are recalled in the game. For instance, in the book, Sloane isn't part of the uprising. She actually goes to negotiate and then gets pulled in when she kills a krogan in self-defense. She then sticks with the rebels to keep them in line, whereas in the game, there are emails you see where people are talking about joining the uprising Sloane is starting (which was not a thing in the book.)
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Post by themikefest on Apr 6, 2017 15:01:39 GMT
Just wondering. Was there any confirmation that it was Jien? Didn't they say the body was burned bad enough they couldn't identify the body? I'm sure its wishful thinking on my part, but it would be interesting if she is alive, but held somewhere against her will for whatever reason.
If there's a sequel, or maybe a dlc, there will be a mission to find out what happened.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 6, 2017 15:02:44 GMT
Just wondering. Was there any confirmation that it was Jien? Didn't they say the body was burned bad enough they couldn't identify the body? I'm sure its wishful thinking on my part, but it would be interesting if she is alive, but held somewhere against her will for whatever reason. If there's a sequel, hopefully there will be a mission to find out what happened. I think they're pretty sure it's her. The burns are probably only used to cover up the murder until Ryder arrives.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 6, 2017 16:38:59 GMT
Well who ID'ed the body, SAM? I don't trust IT at all and I want IT out of my head NOW!
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Post by nxp5 on Apr 7, 2017 5:30:34 GMT
Hope it's not the Illusive Man / Cerberus. Also kinda doesn't make a lot of sense since it's a multi species wise effort.
One of the SAM's would be interesting.
the original Shadow Broker or the Yagh One would be epic (best cinematic and boss fight, great DLC too)
Hope we learn more soon!
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Post by uirebhiril on Apr 7, 2017 7:36:53 GMT
A body can be identified as a particular victim in our day and age even if badly burned. All that way into the future? Unless someone was fudging scans and medical reports that I'm sure they would have taken for identification, they would know it was Jien.
But it'd be neat if she were still alive and hidden away somewhere.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 7, 2017 10:00:19 GMT
A lot actually. Debris from the crash, bodies from damaged pods, various liquids from damaged pipes, AI founders and don't forget all this dust gathered in 600 years. Poor guy. With all respect. Did you miss the part where Alec was light years away during the murder? N7's don't mess around.
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Post by Darkstarr11 on Apr 8, 2017 1:41:13 GMT
Based on what little I have read, seen...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it WASN'T Alec Ryder. Actually, I think he was a potential target. The Scourge wasn't planned...but it was an opportunity. Whoever the Benefactor was/is, they obviously have plans for the Initiative. I am curious as to what the chain of command was going to look like. Someone was in line to take over, which means that someone there was probably planted to take over after Garson's demise. This may have been scuttled after the disaster, but I'm certain that a good portion of the people who were sent to Andromeda were sent with a purpose, even if they don't know it. I'm certain several individual were marked for death.
However, that doesn't mean the Benefactor was involved in her murder. We've seen rival groups go after each other before...Cerberus and the Shadow Broker for one. It IS plausible that a rival organization decided to eliminate Garson to deliver a blow to whoever was behind the AI. Their screening process has huge glaring flaws, as we've seen. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that someone else would have gotten involved. The Citadel, perhaps? There ARE those who would frown upon their use of artificial intelligence, and might even take steps to eliminate it. After all, how did so many ex-Cerberus personnel join up? We don't know, but it IS intriguing.
I REALLY hope this isn't a red herring, and ends up going nowhere. I'm...not as confident in the ME teams ability to tie a cohesive story together. Still, for now, I'll give them the benny of a doubt.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 8, 2017 9:56:06 GMT
I think before we get to "who" we need to tackle "why".
"She knew too much" seems to be the popular theory, even in game, but I'm skeptical. What, exactly, did she know? That the initiative was funded by an anonymous benefactor and that the Reapers were coming imminently by the time they left.
But the first part is kind of irrelevant 600 years later and 2.5 million lightyears away. And as to the second, what, exactly, is the worst case scenario of that information getting out? Mass panic, I suppose. But one wonders if that really would have been any worse than the result of depriving the Initiative of effective leadership in a crisis situation. Not to mention that given we have no reason to believe Garson would have blabbed about it. So one has to wonder about the risk assessment abilities of the murderer if they believed that any chance of Garson going public with the Reapers made killing her worth the fallout.
And of course, as others have mentioned, Alec would need to be targeted as well given that he knew everything Jein knew and the Benefactor knew that he knew. But we don't see any evidence of a plan being in place to kill Alec when he showed up. Granted, he was 14 months late and any plan to kill him ended up being moot, regardless. But he was N7 and if you intend on murdering an N7 you damn well better have a plan in place to do it. I do think we can safely rule Alec out as the murderer as the timeline doesn't seem to allow for it and we're given absolutely no hints at Alec being a murderous individual, or of him seeing Garson as any kind of threat.
But yeah, I'm more curious about the motivation vs the specific identity of the murderer.
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Post by Phantom on Apr 9, 2017 1:31:35 GMT
Hope it's not the Illusive Man / Cerberus. Also kinda doesn't make a lot of sense since it's a multi species wise effort. One of the SAM's would be interesting. the original Shadow Broker or the Yagh One would be epic (best cinematic and boss fight, great DLC too) Hope we learn more soon! Cerberus is about Human Survival First then Human Power second. Even T.I.M has a few Asari girlfriends.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 9, 2017 12:56:26 GMT
I think before we get to "who" we need to tackle "why". "She knew too much" seems to be the popular theory, even in game, but I'm skeptical. What, exactly, did she know? That the initiative was funded by an anonymous benefactor and that the Reapers were coming imminently by the time they left. But the first part is kind of irrelevant 600 years later and 2.5 million lightyears away. And as to the second, what, exactly, is the worst case scenario of that information getting out? Mass panic, I suppose. But one wonders if that really would have been any worse than the result of depriving the Initiative of effective leadership in a crisis situation. Not to mention that given we have no reason to believe Garson would have blabbed about it. So one has to wonder about the risk assessment abilities of the murderer if they believed that any chance of Garson going public with the Reapers made killing her worth the fallout. And of course, as others have mentioned, Alec would need to be targeted as well given that he knew everything Jein knew and the Benefactor knew that he knew. But we don't see any evidence of a plan being in place to kill Alec when he showed up. Granted, he was 14 months late and any plan to kill him ended up being moot, regardless. But he was N7 and if you intend on murdering an N7 you damn well better have a plan in place to do it. I do think we can safely rule Alec out as the murderer as the timeline doesn't seem to allow for it and we're given absolutely no hints at Alec being a murderous individual, or of him seeing Garson as any kind of threat. But yeah, I'm more curious about the motivation vs the specific identity of the murderer. But in the end, she knows very little. She doesn't even know who the Benefactor was. So the Benefactor had a reason to kill Garson on arrival in Andromeda, but didn't take over power. He prefered the Initiative to fall into chaos, than to have Garson in charge. Perhaps killing Garson quickly on arrival was step one of the plan. Step two might be on the Hyperion and arrived 14 months late.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 9, 2017 13:16:23 GMT
I think before we get to "who" we need to tackle "why". "She knew too much" seems to be the popular theory, even in game, but I'm skeptical. What, exactly, did she know? That the initiative was funded by an anonymous benefactor and that the Reapers were coming imminently by the time they left. But the first part is kind of irrelevant 600 years later and 2.5 million lightyears away. And as to the second, what, exactly, is the worst case scenario of that information getting out? Mass panic, I suppose. But one wonders if that really would have been any worse than the result of depriving the Initiative of effective leadership in a crisis situation. Not to mention that given we have no reason to believe Garson would have blabbed about it. So one has to wonder about the risk assessment abilities of the murderer if they believed that any chance of Garson going public with the Reapers made killing her worth the fallout. And of course, as others have mentioned, Alec would need to be targeted as well given that he knew everything Jein knew and the Benefactor knew that he knew. But we don't see any evidence of a plan being in place to kill Alec when he showed up. Granted, he was 14 months late and any plan to kill him ended up being moot, regardless. But he was N7 and if you intend on murdering an N7 you damn well better have a plan in place to do it. I do think we can safely rule Alec out as the murderer as the timeline doesn't seem to allow for it and we're given absolutely no hints at Alec being a murderous individual, or of him seeing Garson as any kind of threat. But yeah, I'm more curious about the motivation vs the specific identity of the murderer. I hope BW did write the whole thing beforehand and aren't brainstorming same question as we are. For the question "why" we should know what exactly Jien's death changed. Option 1 - she was supposed to be replaced by someone from Benefactor's group, but that person died from the Scourge. I think it's within possibilities, but killers did a poor job then, if they didn't check on that person first. Option 2 - Tann's appointment was part of the plan. Succession chain indeed looks strange, since some accountant is higher than Chief Security or Director of Colonization, but that's weird. What exactly Tann gives to Initiative (or Benefactor's vision of it)? He's less sentimental than other higher-ups, but here his positive points end - he's just as incompetent as others in AI. Option 3 - Chaos. I can't imagine the possible use of it, but it wasn't hard to predict, since a lot of people on Nexus were personally loyal to Jien.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 9, 2017 14:48:54 GMT
If Tann taking over either was the plan or was deemed an acceptable if unfortunate outcome to risk then I think Cerberus being the culprit is unlikely. Not impossible, it's not disqualifying, especially given the chaotic circumstance. But killing Garson when everyone above Tann in the leadership resulted in Addison, a notable incompetent, being the only human left in Initiative Leadership. Since this happened before the uprising it's possible that they figured Sloane at least would remain in a leadership position but Sloane, for all her faults, definitely isn't a Cerberus sympathizer.
I'm becoming more convinced that whoever did the killing was either aiming for chaos as the result - and short of it being an indoctrinated sleeper agent hoping that we all die I can't actually figure out why they'd be trying for that - or nothing went according to plan.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 9, 2017 16:08:43 GMT
I don't think Cerberus is involved surely they'd want an influential and competent human to be head of the initiative?
Despite her suspicious activity at the start of the novel I don't see it being Addison either. There are chapters from Addisons point of view where she laments Jiens death.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 9, 2017 20:48:29 GMT
If Tann taking over either was the plan or was deemed an acceptable if unfortunate outcome to risk then I think Cerberus being the culprit is unlikely. Not impossible, it's not disqualifying, especially given the chaotic circumstance. But killing Garson when everyone above Tann in the leadership resulted in Addison, a notable incompetent, being the only human left in Initiative Leadership. Since this happened before the uprising it's possible that they figured Sloane at least would remain in a leadership position but Sloane, for all her faults, definitely isn't a Cerberus sympathizer. I'm becoming more convinced that whoever did the killing was either aiming for chaos as the result - and short of it being an indoctrinated sleeper agent hoping that we all die I can't actually figure out why they'd be trying for that - or nothing went according to plan. The writers write from Tann's perspective in the novel, he is as surprised as anyone. Couldn't have been a member of a conspiracy. He thinks himself that Garson put him high on the list because he's a boring dude that just analyses the bigger picture all the time, instead of doing anything ipulsive.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 9, 2017 20:54:11 GMT
I don't think Tann himself was in on it. But that doesn't mean that the person who did the killing wasn't aware that Tann was going to be the one inheriting the position. Assuming they knew Tann was next in line due to the Scourge deaths - which, admittedly, is a big assumption - him coming into power was part of the plan, or him coming into power was an unfortunate but acceptable consequence.
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 10, 2017 22:39:34 GMT
*snip* Voice: “This is Jien Garson, I don’t have much time, I’ve been hiding in the sealed-off sections of the Nexus since we got here. Someone’s trying to kill me. And now I can hear them down in the hydroponics area – they’re coming. I’ve embedded what I know in my VI in the Cultural Center. This log has the code. And whatever happens – oh god, they’re outside the door!” *snip* Jien Garson was last seen alive at Operations, just before the Scourge hit the Nexus. After that she hid in her apartment, fearing for her life. One or multiple killers ( she’s talking about her murderers in plural) tracked her down and killed her, making it look like another Scourge casualty. There is – in theory – a 27 hour window in which this could’ve happened. Just a little thing: I don't think she was talking about them in plural. If I was hiding in a closet and heard a single person outside, I would be much more likely to say "They are here" instead of "He or she is here". I think it was a single person, but she did not know if it was a man or a woman. Thanks for laying all this out, BTW!
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Post by Wheeljack on Apr 11, 2017 0:15:44 GMT
Plot twist: It was Reyes. The Charlatan, the Benefactor. He likes nicknames.
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Post by vyndral on Apr 11, 2017 6:54:55 GMT
Plot twist: It was Reyes. The Charlatan, the Benefactor. He likes nicknames. That cant be true! He said no more secrets between us! And He seems like an honest chap....
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Post by themikefest on Apr 11, 2017 12:50:42 GMT
Just a little thing: I don't think she was talking about them in plural. If I was hiding in a closet and heard a single person outside, I would be much more likely to say "They are here" instead of "He or she is here". I think it was a single person, but she did not know if it was a man or a woman. Thanks for laying all this out, BTW! She could say someone is after me or someone is here to kill me.
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 11, 2017 13:11:10 GMT
Just a little thing: I don't think she was talking about them in plural. If I was hiding in a closet and heard a single person outside, I would be much more likely to say "They are here" instead of "He or she is here". I think it was a single person, but she did not know if it was a man or a woman. Thanks for laying all this out, BTW! She could say someone is after me or someone is here to kill me. Hmm...good point...
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