I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW

I hear you. I had a lot of complains about MEA but we gotta remember that there aren't any other companies that make games like Bioware does, and if everybody keeps shitting on them we won't get the games we wished for, ever.

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

osito
N2

Posts: 176 Likes: 223

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 11:58:28 GMT zipzap2000, Heimdall, and 2 more like this

Post by osito on Apr 4, 2017 11:58:28 GMT

These Internet debates always seem to degrade to a simplistic version of the truth: people who make positive comments about a game are 'fanboys'; and people who make negative comments are 'haters'. Like it or not, you'll be categorised into one of the two groups, depending on whether you were positive or negative. Unless, of course, you try to be balanced about it, in which case both groups will hate you!

So, pick a team, and fight for them!

stysiaq
N3

Gigavorcha Breeder

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Stysiaq
Posts: 839 Likes: 2,133

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:00:31 GMT Arcian and zipzap2000 like this

Post by stysiaq on Apr 4, 2017 12:00:31 GMT

It totally needed to be a thread.

The Polish Phoenix. I also did the official Biotic Mastery alternate banner with Deerber as the model.

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:13:13 GMT

Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 12:13:13 GMT

I hear you. I had a lot of complains about MEA but we gotta remember that there aren't any other companies that make games like Bioware does, and if everybody keeps shitting on them we won't get the games we wished for, ever.

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

That's why you should make your complains in a constructive way, not whining like this, In my point of view characters are what kept the game together and helped me finish the game, it's the open world and scattered quests that made it bad if it wasn't for the good characters I couldn't have done most of the game.

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:21:42 GMT pdusen, correctamundo, and 1 more like this

Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 12:21:42 GMT

I hear you. I had a lot of complains about MEA but we gotta remember that there aren't any other companies that make games like Bioware does, and if everybody keeps shitting on them we won't get the games we wished for, ever.

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

Err, nope. That's your opinion. See here bsn.boards.net/thread/6862/rank-mass-effect-games?page=8

Maybe this will help you understand...

leo3abp
N3

Posts: 250 Likes: 202

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:24:42 GMT

Post by leo3abp on Apr 4, 2017 12:24:42 GMT

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

That's why you should make your complains in a constructive way, not whining like this, In my point of view characters are what kept the game together and helped me finish the game, it's the open world and scattered quests that made it bad if it wasn't for the good characters I couldn't have done most of the game.

Speaking in your manner, how about you and other fanboys will start leading by example and start being constructive in regard to both good AND bad parts as well? Because right now there is a lot of constructive well written criticism on forum by me and other ppl, which is getting drowned in all the subjective rose-tinted praising and excuses for this game coming from the fanboys, as well as personal insults and rage aimed at those who are able to point out huge shortcomings of Andromeda.

And since you mentioned characters - thats is exactly whats wrong with this game. Character and dialogue writing is terrible and all time low for BW games, and this is first and foremost reason why Andromeda is widely considered to be a huge disappointment. If character and dialogue writing was in place, all other flaws could be overlooked, just like in all previous BW RPGs, but completely dropping the ball in the most important and traditionally strong part of the game is nothing else but inexcusable crime against BW fans.

leo3abp
N3

Posts: 250 Likes: 202

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:31:36 GMT

Post by leo3abp on Apr 4, 2017 12:31:36 GMT

Apr 4, 2017 12:21:42 GMT @frex98 said:

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

Err, nope. That's your opinion. See here bsn.boards.net/thread/6862/rank-mass-effect-games?page=8

Maybe this will help you understand...

that poll you reffer to means absolutely nothing except that Andromeda is more favorably received on this exact forum and this forum alone, which is by its nature would hold a higher concentration of fanboys. I feel almost sad for you to needing me explain things like that...

goishen
N4

twitch.tv/goishen

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: goishen
Posts: 2,360 Likes: 1,840

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:34:48 GMT Arcian and zipzap2000 like this

Post by goishen on Apr 4, 2017 12:34:48 GMT

So, now we have people telling us how to complain?

Wow.

Just.... Wow.

i really like pathfinder's setting but i REALLY don't like how focused on min/maxing the rules are. it's designed from the ground up by and for min/maxer's and autists. the rest of us normies have to play on crayon eater difficulty just to hit a target.
j00t
Fires Of Heaven
www.firesofheaven.org/

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:36:48 GMT

Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 12:36:48 GMT

That's why you should make your complains in a constructive way, not whining like this, In my point of view characters are what kept the game together and helped me finish the game, it's the open world and scattered quests that made it bad if it wasn't for the good characters I couldn't have done most of the game.

Speaking in your manner, how about you and other fanboys will start leading by example and start being constructive in regard to both good AND bad parts as well? Because right now there is a lot of constructive well written criticism on forum by me and other ppl, which is getting drowned in all the subjective rose-tinted praising and excuses for this game coming from the fanboys, as well as personal insults and rage aimed at those who are able to point out huge shortcomings of Andromeda.

And since you mentioned characters - thats is exactly whats wrong with this game. Character and dialogue writing is terrible and all time low for BW games, and this is first and foremost reason why Andromeda is widely considered to be a huge disappointment. If character and dialogue writing was in place, all other flaws could be overlooked, just like in all previous BW RPGs, but completely dropping the ball in the most important and traditionally strong part of the game is nothing else but inexcusable crime against BW fans.

I just said that quests are scattered and took my attention from the game, and if you want to hear what I didn't like fine;
-Animations when leaving/travelling/entering planets
-Fetch quests
-Facial animations (obviously)
-bugs and glitches (duh)
-Squadmates being useless in combat
-not being able to save during missions
-Scanning
-Slow opening
-Open world in general doesn't suit BW
and many others
But there is no way I'm talking shit about characters because I liked them very much and if you didn't thats your preference not a fact

osito
N2

Posts: 176 Likes: 223

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:36:52 GMT correctamundo and brad2240 like this

Post by osito on Apr 4, 2017 12:36:52 GMT

That's why you should make your complains in a constructive way, not whining like this, In my point of view characters are what kept the game together and helped me finish the game, it's the open world and scattered quests that made it bad if it wasn't for the good characters I couldn't have done most of the game.

Speaking in your manner, how about you and other fanboys will start leading by example and start being constructive in regard to both good AND bad parts as well? Because right now there is a lot of constructive well written criticism on forum by me and other ppl, which is getting drowned in all the subjective rose-tinted praising and excuses for this game coming from the fanboys, as well as personal insults and rage aimed at those who are able to point out huge shortcomings of Andromeda.

And since you mentioned characters - thats is exactly whats wrong with this game. Character and dialogue writing is terrible and all time low for BW games, and this is first and foremost reason why Andromeda is widely considered to be a huge disappointment. If character and dialogue writing was in place, all other flaws could be overlooked, just like in all previous BW RPGs, but completely dropping the ball in the most important and traditionally strong part of the game is nothing else but inexcusable crime against BW fans.

The character and dialogue stuff is still a matter of opinion.

I did an another MET playthrough last year, after a year or two away from the games. I enjoyed it, but there were frequently parts of the dialogue I considered awkward or even rubbish, and plenty of it was boring. And some of it was great.

I've just played through most of MEA and my feelings were exactly the same. There was awkward dialogue, there was rubbish, and boring stuff, and some of it was great. There is a lot more dialogue in MEA, and perhaps that is where the problem lies. Perhaps the proportion of good dialogue is lower, although I can't say I noticed.

The problem with the debate on this issue is that people with a different opinion come along and tell me I'm objectively wrong, and that my opinion shows my lack of judgement and discernment. Once you get to that point, there is no point in further debate.

Last Edit: Apr 4, 2017 12:37:45 GMT by osito

brad2240
N2

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 140 Likes: 320

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:38:17 GMT correctamundo likes this

Post by brad2240 on Apr 4, 2017 12:38:17 GMT

I hear you. I had a lot of complains about MEA but we gotta remember that there aren't any other companies that make games like Bioware does, and if everybody keeps shitting on them we won't get the games we wished for, ever.

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

No, not "objectively." That's your opinion. This is maybe my biggest problem with people on both sides of the argument, asserting their opinion as if it is concrete fact and the only one possible.

correctamundo
N5

Dr Obfuscate

Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,273

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:41:23 GMT ProbeAway likes this

Post by correctamundo on Apr 4, 2017 12:41:23 GMT

I hear you. I had a lot of complains about MEA but we gotta remember that there aren't any other companies that make games like Bioware does, and if everybody keeps shitting on them we won't get the games we wished for, ever.

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. ~~Objectively~~ subjectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

Oh boy. Words are so difficult.

Sondergaard
N3

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:43:07 GMT xochipilli likes this

Post by Sondergaard on Apr 4, 2017 12:43:07 GMT

Apr 4, 2017 12:21:42 GMT @frex98 said:

yes, but if we ignore and pretend that, for example bad writing is not bad writing, and crap is not crap, then we will not get games we wished for either. Objectively Andromeda is weakest BW game up to date, because they somehow managed to screw up two most important things that made all their other games great - character and dialogue writing. Everything can be forgiven and overlooked if those two were on par with previous BW games, because that is what BW RPG essence lies in, but with Andromeda - there is no excuses.
Think of it this way - if new season of Game of Thrones was getting a story and character cast of My Little Pony, it would be a crap Game of Thrones. Not because MLP is bad, but because from GoT ppl naturally expect GoT.

Err, nope. That's your opinion. See here bsn.boards.net/thread/6862/rank-mass-effect-games?page=8

Maybe this will help you understand...

That's a Daniel Patrick Moynihan quote, not Ricky Gervais (though I'm not surprised that self promoting narcissist has managed to take the credit).

Don't lick any poles!

leo3abp
N3

Posts: 250 Likes: 202

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:48:57 GMT

Post by leo3abp on Apr 4, 2017 12:48:57 GMT

Apr 4, 2017 12:36:52 GMT osito said:

Speaking in your manner, how about you and other fanboys will start leading by example and start being constructive in regard to both good AND bad parts as well? Because right now there is a lot of constructive well written criticism on forum by me and other ppl, which is getting drowned in all the subjective rose-tinted praising and excuses for this game coming from the fanboys, as well as personal insults and rage aimed at those who are able to point out huge shortcomings of Andromeda.

And since you mentioned characters - thats is exactly whats wrong with this game. Character and dialogue writing is terrible and all time low for BW games, and this is first and foremost reason why Andromeda is widely considered to be a huge disappointment. If character and dialogue writing was in place, all other flaws could be overlooked, just like in all previous BW RPGs, but completely dropping the ball in the most important and traditionally strong part of the game is nothing else but inexcusable crime against BW fans.

The character and dialogue stuff is still a matter of opinion.

I did an another MET playthrough last year, after a year or two away from the games. I enjoyed it, but there were frequently parts of the dialogue I considered awkward or even rubbish, and plenty of it was boring. And some of it was great.

I've just played through most of MEA and my feelings were exactly the same. There was awkward dialogue, there was rubbish, and boring stuff, and some of it was great. There is a lot more dialogue in MEA, and perhaps that is where the problem lies. Perhaps the proportion of good dialogue is lower, although I can't say I noticed.

The problem with the debate on this issue is that people with a different opinion come along and tell me I'm objectively wrong, and that my opinion shows my lack of judgement and discernment. Once you get to that point, there is no point in further debate.

Except that if you dont start it, somebody else will, and that even shows in this thread with army of fanboys mustering to defend their beloved game. So why really care if even BW doesn't, no matter how constructive or objective we get? At least unlike majority of those "this is your subjective opinion!!! game is great/terrible!!!"-boys, I can actually form and articulate my opinion in constructive and reasonable manner, and back it up by arguments and facts and explain why I think the way I do. I am content with that.
Otherwise just keep piling up and telling me about things being my opinion. At least I have one of my own.

chugster
N3

In a galaxy far, far away.....

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 302 Likes: 212

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:50:44 GMT correctamundo likes this

Post by chugster on Apr 4, 2017 12:50:44 GMT

That's why you should make your complains in a constructive way, not whining like this, In my point of view characters are what kept the game together and helped me finish the game, it's the open world and scattered quests that made it bad if it wasn't for the good characters I couldn't have done most of the game.

, as well as personal insults and rage aimed at those who are able to point out huge shortcomings of Andromeda.

.

You really didn't read my post did you? I posted this for people like you in the hopes you would read it properly and understand the difference between constructive criticsm and negative toxicity

I am not raging at people pointing out the shortcomings in MEA....I am raging at the retarded monkeys who cant do it without huge negativity and toxicity.

Please, read my post again and again and again, maybe you might actually understand it after the tenth read? If you cant see the difference then you really shouldnt be allowed on the internet

Last Edit: Apr 4, 2017 12:52:00 GMT by chugster

"Mainly the lower reaches, near the bottom"

leo3abp
N3

Posts: 250 Likes: 202

I need to clarify my position on MEA/BW Apr 4, 2017 12:54:35 GMT

Post by leo3abp on Apr 4, 2017 12:54:35 GMT

Apr 4, 2017 12:50:44 GMT chugster said: