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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2017 18:21:14 GMT
From NeoGAF, posted by Madness: "I wonder if all those guys wanting BioWare to #makeJaalBi and spamming nonstop thousands of times so you cannot even read other mass effect tweets actually got to talk to him and heard his heartbreaking story about his childhood love on the farm and how she ended up marrying his more well known brother etc. I have never seen a such a concerted attempt to make someone who is clearly heterosexual in a human sense into bisexual."
This is my opinion about the chosen sexuality for any character, any criticism towards it and any accusations that BioWare is disrespecting this that or the other... EVER.
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Post by caladrius on Apr 8, 2017 18:26:53 GMT
Wow, they're right, Bioware would never make a bisexual man that talked about his ex-girlfriend. Oh wait, no, actually that's all of them. Oops.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 8, 2017 18:27:24 GMT
Personally, I think how he flirts exclusively with female NPCs is a better indication of his sexuality. He is from a culture where you're open with your feelings and where homosexual behavior is not frowned upon as far as we've seen so it's not like angara would hide an attraction. I don't see there being much to indicate that Jaal is or could be bisexual. Yes, I know that there are recorded lines between him and male Ryder but I believe I've heard that such lines have similarly been recorded in the past. I believe Sera is an example of such with a male Inquisitor?
Personally, I think it's best for Bioware to do better in the next game and maybe add a NPC romance in the DLC but I would rather that Bioware not change a character's sexuality. I'm not fond of that happening to a character no matter their sexuality.
This is rather unrelated but something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while. I rather like how that story indicates how some aspects of Jaal's personality likely developed such as his insecurity. It's an example of why I would not like to see playersexuality be implemented since we wouldn't have stories like that.
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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 8, 2017 18:31:10 GMT
That's the worst defense against #MakeJaalBi lmao, are you kidding me?! There are plenty of other good defenses against making Jaal bi, but that is NOT one of them. I don't think the person who wrote that is well informed in how bisexuality works, and in extension, I don't think you do either.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 8, 2017 18:38:43 GMT
I had no idea that Kaidan, Fenris, and Zevran are all straight. ...Oh, wait. No, it's just they were only written to be more vocally attracted to women. Anyways, aren't you the same guy who got upset over Avitus and Macen because they're gay? It doesn't sound like you're an unbiased party when it comes to gay stuff, sorry.
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Post by caladrius on Apr 8, 2017 18:46:37 GMT
I had no idea that Kaidan, Fenris, and Zevran are all straight. ...Oh, wait. No, it's just they were only written to be more vocally attracted to women. Anyways, aren't you the same guy who got upset over Avitus and Macen because they're gay? It doesn't sound like you're an unbiased party when it comes to gay stuff, sorry. Reyes talks about his ex-girlfriend and apparently still gets multiple totally platonic makeout scenes, so at least there's hope for that.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Apr 8, 2017 18:51:28 GMT
I had no idea that Kaidan, Fenris, and Zevran are all straight. ...Oh, wait. No, it's just they were only written to be more vocally attracted to women. Anyways, aren't you the same guy who got upset over Avitus and Macen because they're gay? It doesn't sound like you're an unbiased party when it comes to gay stuff, sorry. Reyes talks about his ex-girlfriend and apparently still gets multiple totally platonic makeout scenes, so at least there's hope for that. You see, he was just helping to suck out the poison from Scott's lips after he was bitten by a poisonous indigenous species while exploring. That's exactly what happened! What a good platonic buddy.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 8, 2017 18:53:22 GMT
Personally, I think if they've already recorded the lines for a m/m Jaal romance, then that means they've considered him to be bisexual so why not add it? To me, the recorded lines are the best case for making him bi.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 19:01:30 GMT
Personally, I think if they've already recorded the lines for a m/m Jaal romance, then that means they've considered him to be bisexual so why not add it? To me, the recorded lines are the best case for making him bi. I thought that they only recorded a single "I love you Jaal" line from Scott? Also, yeah, I can't believe that anyone thinks having an o/s partner in the past means that someone can't be bisexual. Really?
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Post by shechinah on Apr 8, 2017 19:03:47 GMT
Personally, I think if they've already recorded the lines for a m/m Jaal romance, then that means they've considered him to be bisexual so why not add it? To me, the recorded lines are the best case for making him bi. Except it wasn't fully recorded nor were those lines implemented. There is nothing that I've seen that indicates that Jaal is anything but straight. There is more that indicates that he is straight as he exclusively flirts with female characters. Your argument could as easily be used as a case for why Sera should be made bisexual since she has recorded lines with a male Inquisitor. The reason for why these unused lines exist is, as far as I know, because the studio do not know what the writers intend ahead of time and so record lines with multiple genders. Apparently this is less expensive because it means they don't have to call voice actors back. Basically, it's simply a cost-saving measure and not an indication of a writer's previous plans in regards to a character.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 8, 2017 20:03:07 GMT
Personally, I think if they've already recorded the lines for a m/m Jaal romance, then that means they've considered him to be bisexual so why not add it? To me, the recorded lines are the best case for making him bi. Except it wasn't fully recorded nor were those lines implemented. There is nothing that I've seen that indicates that Jaal is anything but straight. There is more that indicates that he is straight as he exclusively flirts with female characters. Your argument could as easily be used as a case for why Sera should be made bisexual since she has recorded lines with a male Inquisitor. The reason for why these unused lines exist is, as far as I know, because the studio do not know what the writers intend ahead of time and so record lines with multiple genders. Apparently this is less expensive because it means they don't have to call voice actors back. Basically, it's simply a cost-saving measure and not an indication of a writer's previous plans in regards to a character. Ahhh, I didn't realize it wasn't fully recorded. For some reason I was under the impression that there was a full Scott romance already recorded but that they just didnt implement it due to timing or whatever. That... changes things then. I mean, it doesn't bother me if they do go make him bi - spread the love, I say - but there would be less incentive to do so if they haven't recorded lines for the romance. Meh.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:07:57 GMT
Personally, I think how he flirts exclusively with female NPCs is a better indication of his sexuality. He is from a culture where you're open with your feelings and where homosexual behavior is not frowned upon as far as we've seen so it's not like angara would hide an attraction. I don't see there being much to indicate that Jaal is or could be bisexual. Yes, I know that there are recorded lines between him and male Ryder but I believe I've heard that such lines have similarly been recorded in the past. I believe Sera is an example of such with a male Inquisitor? Personally, I think it's best for Bioware to do better in the next game and maybe add a NPC romance in the DLC but I would rather that Bioware not change a character's sexuality. I'm not fond of that happening to a character no matter their sexuality. This is rather unrelated but something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while. I rather like how that story indicates how some aspects of Jaal's personality likely developed such as his insecurity. It's an example of why I would not like to see playersexuality be implemented since we wouldn't have stories like that. So true. Just playing the game changed my thoughts on the potential of him being bi. His romance is definitely meant for Sara, from the flirting based on their matching personalities and her background, to his love letters and mother's talk of children. Reyes though you could never convince me was anything but bi. There's signs. Elsariel Scott had one line. "I love you too, Jaal" and that was just in case. Cora had that too with Sara. BW does this for all characters, but there was no romance dialogue or scenes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:13:00 GMT
And I totally think he is bisexual, because the only reason I can think off for him breaking up with F!Ryder who shoots Akksul, is that if that tension between the two men was due to them being in love with each-other. So, when Ryder shoots Akksul dead, Jaal finally realizes that it was only Akksul he'd ever loved... so he can't go on romancing the PC.
I hope everyone else sees that as a definitive proof of Jaal being a bi!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:15:37 GMT
And I totally think he is bisexual, because the only reason I can think off for him breaking up with F!Ryder who shoots Akksul, is that if that tension between the two men was due to them being in love with eahc-other. So, when Ryder shoots Akksul dead, Jaal finally realizes that it was only Akksul he'd ever loved... so he can't go on romancing the PC. I hope everyone else sees that as a definitive proof of Jaal being a bi!!! LMAO! You know I like Akksul, and that email he sends me so... awww... I forgive him.
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Solona Amell
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 8, 2017 20:23:53 GMT
Personally, I think how he flirts exclusively with female NPCs is a better indication of his sexuality. He is from a culture where you're open with your feelings and where homosexual behavior is not frowned upon as far as we've seen so it's not like angara would hide an attraction. I don't see there being much to indicate that Jaal is or could be bisexual. Yes, I know that there are recorded lines between him and male Ryder but I believe I've heard that such lines have similarly been recorded in the past. I believe Sera is an example of such with a male Inquisitor? Personally, I think it's best for Bioware to do better in the next game and maybe add a NPC romance in the DLC but I would rather that Bioware not change a character's sexuality. I'm not fond of that happening to a character no matter their sexuality. This is rather unrelated but something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while. I rather like how that story indicates how some aspects of Jaal's personality likely developed such as his insecurity. It's an example of why I would not like to see playersexuality be implemented since we wouldn't have stories like that. So true. Just playing the game changed my thoughts on the potential of him being bi. His romance is definitely meant for Sara, from the flirting based on their matching personalities and her background, to his love letters and mother's talk of children. Reyes though you could never convince me was anything but bi. There's signs. Elsariel Scott had one line. "I love you too, Jaal" and that was just in case. Cora had that too with Sara. BW does this for all characters, but there was no romance dialogue or scenes. Weird that they record just one line though. Like, why bother? If you decide to make a character bi after the fact then you'll have to get the VA to go back in and record more lines anyway. Right?
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Post by sageoflife on Apr 8, 2017 20:24:40 GMT
Why do so many people forget that bisexual men are attracted to women?
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Post by lightdrago3 on Apr 8, 2017 20:26:15 GMT
So true. Just playing the game changed my thoughts on the potential of him being bi. His romance is definitely meant for Sara, from the flirting based on their matching personalities and her background, to his love letters and mother's talk of children. Reyes though you could never convince me was anything but bi. There's signs. Elsariel Scott had one line. "I love you too, Jaal" and that was just in case. Cora had that too with Sara. BW does this for all characters, but there was no romance dialogue or scenes. Weird that they record just one line though. Like, why bother? If you decide to make a character bi after the fact then you'll have to get the VA to go back in and record more lines anyway. Right? I'm pretty sure on Twitter Tom Taylorson believed Jaal was romanceable by Scott, so, like you, I also assumed they had some substantial voicing done. If it really is just that "I love you" line and nothing else, why would Taylorson think Jaal could be romanced by Scott?
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Post by Panda on Apr 8, 2017 20:26:26 GMT
Guy has childhood crush on girl who ends up with his brother. Conclusion, he is 100% hetero and will only like girls rest of his life? How is that best defense? That's not even logical conclusion to draw. Or don't any bisexual guys and girls have childhood crushes? Do they always crush on boy and girl same time?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:26:43 GMT
And I totally think he is bisexual, because the only reason I can think off for him breaking up with F!Ryder who shoots Akksul, is that if that tension between the two men was due to them being in love with eahc-other. So, when Ryder shoots Akksul dead, Jaal finally realizes that it was only Akksul he'd ever loved... so he can't go on romancing the PC. I hope everyone else sees that as a definitive proof of Jaal being a bi!!! LMAO! You know I like Akksul, and that email he sends me so... awww... I forgive him. Ah, the day I can sort out who was in love with whom in that soap opera drama, I am gonna pen a fanfiction extraordinaire... I can just see it... The young Human Girl, only 22, her feelings in disarray as she travels to a far away planet to discover two macho aliens, in interesting pastel shades. Jaal, oh so reasonable and willing to help! Akksul - oh, so intractably hostile and claiming he wants to kill her, and Jaal and all Humans! How they all SUFFER! But wait! Jaal reveals that Akksul and him were rivals from early age! And those messages from Akksul, more and more private in nature... Finally, in the very heart of the ROMANTIC ANCIENT shrine, the three young and adorably SUFFERING protagonists all stand ready to shoot each-other, while FIGHTING their FEELINGS! Is it Jaal + Akksul = TRUE LOVE, while Tishujen <3 Jaal and Akksul, and Jaal just thought he loved Tishujen? Did Tishujen just <3 Jaal? Or Akksul? Or... WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT FATEFUL MOMENT? And when the SHOT was fired, WHO did it? Akksul? Tishujen? OMG. As I said, the moment I sort out what possible combo is the hottest, I'll get right on it!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:33:45 GMT
Why do so many people forget that bisexual men are attracted to women? And it works both ways for bisexual guys too. You get, "Oh he had a girlfriend in the past? Then he's definitely straight." and you get, "Oh, he's shown any interest in guys what-so-ever? Must be a closet case." I'm pretty sure on Twitter Tom Taylorson believed Jaal was romanceable by Scott, so, like you, I also assumed they had some substantial voicing done. If it really is just that "I love you" line and nothing else, why would Taylorson think Jaal could be romanced by Scott? The VA's often record the lines acontextually. They often don't know what lines go with what other lines. So, if I were a VA and recorded a bunch of acontextual lines and one of them said, "I love you too Jaal", I'd probably assume that Jaal was romanceable. That being said, Tom never said that Jaal was bisexual. He did a bunch of <wink, wink, nudge, nudge> stuff and never confirmed or denied anything. It's part of the accusations of "queerbaiting".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:35:03 GMT
So true. Just playing the game changed my thoughts on the potential of him being bi. His romance is definitely meant for Sara, from the flirting based on their matching personalities and her background, to his love letters and mother's talk of children. Reyes though you could never convince me was anything but bi. There's signs. Elsariel Scott had one line. "I love you too, Jaal" and that was just in case. Cora had that too with Sara. BW does this for all characters, but there was no romance dialogue or scenes. Weird that they record just one line though. Like, why bother? If you decide to make a character bi after the fact then you'll have to get the VA to go back in and record more lines anyway. Right? They do that. It's common in video games, especially BW ones. Most likely they attempted to write Jaal as bi, it didn't work and they left that old file in there. That's why datamining is not reliable. A friend said they knew of the romances for a few years, and he was not bi when they were told of them.
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 8, 2017 20:37:35 GMT
There are plenty of great arguments against making Jaal bisexual. The fact that he was spurned by an ex-girlfriend is not one of them.
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Post by lightdrago3 on Apr 8, 2017 20:37:54 GMT
Why do so many people forget that bisexual men are attracted to women? And it works both ways for bisexual guys too. You get, "Oh he had a girlfriend in the past? Then he's definitely straight." and you get, "Oh, he's shown any interest in guys what-so-ever? Must be a closet case." I'm pretty sure on Twitter Tom Taylorson believed Jaal was romanceable by Scott, so, like you, I also assumed they had some substantial voicing done. If it really is just that "I love you" line and nothing else, why would Taylorson think Jaal could be romanced by Scott? The VA's often record the lines acontextually. They often don't know what lines go with what other lines. So, if I were a VA and recorded a bunch of acontextual lines and one of them said, "I love you too Jaal", I'd probably assume that Jaal was romanceable. That being said, Tom never said that Jaal was bisexual. He did a bunch of <wink, wink, nudge, nudge> stuff and never confirmed or denied anything. It's part of the accusations of "queerbaiting". Yeah, Taylorson never said he was bi pre-release. I'm petty sure though that he was just as confused as others post-release when Jaal was revealed to be only for Sara. I don't think Taylorson ever intentionally meant to queerbait anyone, though. Think he was just trying to keep hope alive for some.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 8, 2017 20:38:00 GMT
Guy has childhood crush on girl who ends up with his brother. Conclusion, he is 100% hetero and will only like girls rest of his life? How is that best defense? That's not even logical conclusion to draw. Or don't any bisexual guys and girls have childhood crushes? Do they always crush on boy and girl same time? I don't think the posts about it applied to me as well but just to clarify: I don't consider that to really be a case-closed argument against Jaal being bisexual. I've known people who've only been in relationships or in love with the opposite gender but who were bisexual. I just don't consider this to be the case with Jaal because, as I've said, he only flirts or exhibits an interest in the opposite gender.
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Post by Dirk on Apr 8, 2017 20:40:36 GMT
Guy has childhood crush on girl who ends up with his brother. Conclusion, he is 100% hetero and will only like girls rest of his life? How is that best defense? That's not even logical conclusion to draw. Or don't any bisexual guys and girls have childhood crushes? Do they always crush on boy and girl same time? I used to have a crush on girls and now I am 100% gay. Funny how attraction works. The defense that a character, who shows only attraction to girls, can't be bi is simply bisexuality erasure. The better defense would be that apart from a single line, there is no other evidence which supports that he's intended as a bi character.
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