CTPhipps
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 9, 2017 1:49:12 GMT
From NeoGAF, posted by Madness: "I wonder if all those guys wanting BioWare to #makeJaalBi and spamming nonstop thousands of times so you cannot even read other mass effect tweets actually got to talk to him and heard his heartbreaking story about his childhood love on the farm and how she ended up marrying his more well known brother etc. I have never seen a such a concerted attempt to make someone who is clearly heterosexual in a human sense into bisexual."This is my opinion about the chosen sexuality for any character, any criticism towards it and any accusations that BioWare is disrespecting this that or the other... EVER. I've had lots of bisexual, lesbian, and trans characters in my fiction. Alongside a lot more heterosexual characters because that's how the world is. However, the simple fact is that sexuality for fictional characters is just a matter of how I write them. Jaal having an ex-girlfriend he lost to his brother isn't really that tragic or innately hetero-normative. Let's face it, Zevran is as bisexual as elfily possible and yet he had a tragic dead lover backstory. Isabella had an evil husband. Leliana...okay, her backstory was about her evil ex-girlfriend. BE THAT AS IT MAY Jaal constantly talks about sex, sex with women, women in general, and hits on virtually every woman in the squad. I've heard him especially talk about Peebee. Dude needs to get laid bad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 2:03:21 GMT
Jaal constantly talks about sex, sex with women, women in general, and hits on virtually every woman in the squad. I've heard him especially talk about Peebee. Which is basically how Bioware writes their Bisexual men anyway. *Cough*BullZev*Cough*
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 13:45:47 GMT
I've seen this conversation coming up a lot recently, and wanted to share my thoughts on the subject. To be honest it makes me uneasy actually. Wanting more options is understandable but all this talk about changing sexuality from one to another is just feels wrong to me. Especially for a company like bioware who is known and praised for including all kinds of sexualities, to change it just like that, to rewrite a character based on some fans demanded it; It just seems like that would open a door that is going to be hard to close should situations like this happen in the future. Regardless of character; I am strongly against alteration of any sexuality. I don't like the principle or the implications of it. For me it's crossing a line to be honest. It shouldn't be done.
Now, I'm pissed over the fact that once again, the main the focus of the romanceable characters and their content is focused on the straight guy. I hoped that this time would be diffrent, especially when they talked about how much more romance options it was going to be in comparison with the trilogy. I however do not agree with changing an already established character sexuality, and in Jaal´s case particularly, there is no evidence of him being bi. Which leads me to the bi-code thing. Look, as writers, we often like to keep our options open in the beginning. It's understandable that such code exist because the writing process is unpredictable as shit. And sometimes even with planning, the characters may end up completely different from how you first imagined them. Jaal is written straight and there is no characterization to suggest otherwise. There should have absolutely been more gay or bi options, and the fact that it isn't is truly a shame but altering the sexuality of another character won´t make the situation any better. I understand wanting more options and representation but I don´t think it should be at the expense of someone else's. To be clear; regardless of sexuality, taking away representation in order to make a new one is not a good practice. It shouldn´t be be like that. I hope bioware will do better next time but changing sexuality of characters is not the answer...
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Pokemario
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Post by Pokemario on Apr 9, 2017 15:45:30 GMT
There's a reason it's "#MakeJaalBi" and not "#MakeJaalGay"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 15:55:47 GMT
I've seen this conversation coming up a lot recently, and wanted to share my thoughts on the subject. To be honest it makes me uneasy actually. Wanting more options is understandable but all this talk about changing sexuality from one to another is just feels wrong to me. Especially for a company like bioware who is known and praised for including all kinds of sexualities, to change it just like that, to rewrite a character based on some fans demanded it; It just seems like that would open a door that is going to be hard to close should situations like this happen in the future. Regardless of character; I am strongly against alteration of any sexuality. I don't like the principle or the implications of it. For me it's crossing a line to be honest. It shouldn't be done. Now, I'm pissed over the fact that once again, the main the focus of the romanceable characters and their content is focused on the straight guy. I hoped that this time would be diffrent, especially when they talked about how much more romance options it was going to be in comparison with the trilogy. I however do not agree with changing an already established character sexuality, and in Jaal´s case particularly, there is no evidence of him being bi. Which leads me to the bi-code thing. Look, as writers, we often like to keep our options open in the beginning. It's understandable that such code exist because the writing process is unpredictable as shit. And sometimes even with planning, the characters may end up completely different from how you first imagined them. Jaal is written straight and there is no characterization to suggest otherwise. There should have absolutely been more gay or bi options, and the fact that it isn't is truly a shame but altering the sexuality of another character won´t make the situation any better. I understand wanting more options and representation but I don´t think it should be at the expense of someone else's. To be clear; regardless of sexuality, taking away representation in order to make a new one is not a good practice. It shouldn´t be be like that. I hope bioware will do better next time but changing sexuality of characters is not the answer... Well said! I agree!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 16:01:46 GMT
There's a reason it's "#MakeJaalBi" and not "#MakeJaalGay" Exactly, making him Bi won't cut him off being romanced by females. So I'm confused at the "changing his sexuality as someone's expense." line as there will be literally no people being cut from his romance. My vote still goes for romancable Drack though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 16:05:40 GMT
There's a reason it's "#MakeJaalBi" and not "#MakeJaalGay" Exactly, making him Bi won't cut him off being romanced by females. So I'm confused at the "changing his sexuality as someone's expense." line as there will be literally no people being cut from his romance. My vote still goes for romancable Drack though. I still laugh at the "Dating Drack" option I got lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 16:09:46 GMT
Exactly, making him Bi won't cut him off being romanced by females. So I'm confused at the "changing his sexuality as someone's expense." line as there will be literally no people being cut from his romance. My vote still goes for romancable Drack though. I still laugh at the "Dating Drack" option I got lol That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 16:12:58 GMT
I still laugh at the "Dating Drack" option I got lol That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them! It would have been pretty cute! But like aeclaey said, the neglect of a m/m squad romance was wrong, and PeeBee is alright to me, but I still say she's not "bi" or "pan" so she never should have counted imo. If you have an Asari squadmate, likely you'll be able to romance them as both a male and female, so she takes a slot that could have went for a male gay/bi squadmate imo.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 16:13:52 GMT
There's a reason it's "#MakeJaalBi" and not "#MakeJaalGay" Exactly, making him Bi won't cut him off being romanced by females. So I'm confused at the "changing his sexuality as someone's expense." line as there will be literally no people being cut from his romance. My vote still goes for romancable Drack though. Apologize if my writing seems strange. English is not my first language. I mean that taking away representation in order to make a new one is not a good practice. To me it doesn't come across as a solution but would rather just be problematic in the long run.
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Post by Panda on Apr 9, 2017 16:54:10 GMT
I still laugh at the "Dating Drack" option I got lol That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them! Actually that could work and would take some major problems away with m/m romances in terms of being both squadmate and alien so those request full-filled. And nobody could say anything worthwhile on changing LI's sexuality. I'm not personally into Krogan's at all, but it could be one possible fix to the situation.
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Post by Mihura on Apr 9, 2017 17:26:19 GMT
I still laugh at the "Dating Drack" option I got lol That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them! This would be great too, an old warrior, super badass and has a lot of empathy would be cool but it is going to trigger the bros gamers to much, it is not a safe m/m romance at all. Bioware is a chicken. I really did not get why Drack could not be bi like Vetra, what a wasted opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 17:30:28 GMT
That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! :P But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them! Actually that could work and would take some major problems away with m/m romances in terms of being both squadmate and alien so those request full-filled. And nobody could say anything worthwhile on changing LI's sexuality. I'm not personally into Krogan's at all, but it could be one possible fix to the situation. That takes away the representation of the Squadmates you can't romance for very good reasons. Honestly, if there are funds for additional dialogues/curscenes, I'd rather see investment of developer time into Reyes dialogues after Kadar subplot via ship's intercom, and allowing PC to come and visit him after the plot important points that advance crew romances.
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Post by Panda on Apr 9, 2017 17:46:16 GMT
Actually that could work and would take some major problems away with m/m romances in terms of being both squadmate and alien so those request full-filled. And nobody could say anything worthwhile on changing LI's sexuality. I'm not personally into Krogan's at all, but it could be one possible fix to the situation. That takes away the representation of the Squadmates you can't romance for very good reasons. Honestly, if there are funds for additional dialogues/curscenes, I'd rather see investment of developer time into Reyes dialogues after Kadar subplot via ship's intercom, and allowing PC to come and visit him after the plot important points that advance crew romances. I don't think "squadmates you can't romance" is just fan decided thing. It's not any real life group at least ^^; There also used to be "female squadmate you can't romance" in the squad, but nope straight Scott can bang them all, so I'd say this "squadmate you can't romance" group is not that important. The thing is that Reyes can't be squadmate or alien, he can't become to sth that would fix the all the problems with m/m romances. Expanding and fixing his romance would fix problems sure, but the outcome wouldn't still be equal : /
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 17:48:15 GMT
Adding more Reyes content would be logical, but a few days ago Tom mentioned the improved gay romances for Scott, saying he had no idea what they planned and he was not returning to the studio, so it's not likely he's recording new stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 17:50:32 GMT
That takes away the representation of the Squadmates you can't romance for very good reasons. Honestly, if there are funds for additional dialogues/curscenes, I'd rather see investment of developer time into Reyes dialogues after Kadar subplot via ship's intercom, and allowing PC to come and visit him after the plot important points that advance crew romances. I don't think "squadmates you can't romance" is just fan decided thing. It's not any real life group at least ^^; There also used to be "female squadmate you can't romance" in the squad, but nope straight Scott can bang them all, so I'd say this "squadmate you can't romance" group is not that important. The thing is that Reyes can't be squadmate or alien, he can't become to sth that would fix the all the problems with m/m romances. Expanding and fixing his romance would fix problems sure, but the outcome wouldn't still be equal : / I'd rather have a great romance that does not have all the checkmarks, than a terrible one that satisfies all the requirements. Expanding Reyes romance imo will benefit many more players. Neither is going to happen, so it's a moot point.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 9, 2017 18:30:38 GMT
Adding more Reyes content would be logical, but a few days ago Tom mentioned the improved gay romances for Scott, saying he had no idea what they planned and he was not returning to the studio, so it's not likely he's recording new stuff. I'm gonna bet this means we're getting more emails from Reyes and maybe Gil, too. I hope that's the case. I mean, I'll always want more but any extra content will make me super happy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 18:35:06 GMT
Adding more Reyes content would be logical, but a few days ago Tom mentioned the improved gay romances for Scott, saying he had no idea what they planned and he was not returning to the studio, so it's not likely he's recording new stuff. I'm gonna bet this means we're getting more emails from Reyes and maybe Gil, too. I hope that's the case. I mean, I'll always want more but any extra content will make me super happy. I think I got more emails after that last patch and they also updated your crew's feelings about you in the codex entries.
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Post by Dirk on Apr 9, 2017 18:37:57 GMT
That was Bioware teasing me! I swear! But honestly making Drack a romance option means that they won't have to change a character's orientation. He's already in the squad and has plenty of content. Plus both Ryders can hit on him and he doesn't reject them! Actually that could work and would take some major problems away with m/m romances in terms of being both squadmate and alien so those request full-filled. And nobody could say anything worthwhile on changing LI's sexuality. I'm not personally into Krogan's at all, but it could be one possible fix to the situation. If there is a gay/bi Drack LI DLC, I will be buying it without a doubt.
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Post by Obiwancomeblowme on Apr 9, 2017 18:45:54 GMT
I am so very tired of all the talk about how making Jaal bi would hinder the romance with Sara in any way. We know Bioware is lazy and that romances for Peebee are identical for both Ryders, literally nothing but pronouns are changed. Why would the story for Jaal change in any way? How would giving m/m players a squadmate hurt your story as Sara? It wouldn't.
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Post by Dirk on Apr 9, 2017 18:49:21 GMT
Exactly, making him Bi won't cut him off being romanced by females. So I'm confused at the "changing his sexuality as someone's expense." line as there will be literally no people being cut from his romance. My vote still goes for romancable Drack though. Apologize if my writing seems strange. English is not my first language. I mean that taking away representation in order to make a new one is not a good practice. To me it doesn't come across as a solution but would rather just be problematic in the long run. But straight people already have tons of representation, don't they? Taking one away barely affects anything.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 18:49:34 GMT
I am so very tired of all the talk about how making Jaal bi would hinder the romance with Sara in any way. We know Bioware is lazy and that romances for Peebee are identical for both Ryders, literally nothing but pronouns are changed. Why would the story for Jaal change in any way? How would giving m/m players a squadmate hurt your story as Sara? It wouldn't. It's not about that for me. It's how awful it would look model-wise. As for Jaal himself, it would be another guy who talks and likes females and their bodies who suddenly likes a guy too though never showed that before. Like Anders was hot for Nate in DAA, so when he was shown to be bi in DA2 it wasn't a surprise, but Jaal being bi would be like Zev saying he prefers women. It's not about Sara, it's how he is already written.
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Post by Elsariel on Apr 9, 2017 18:50:58 GMT
I'm gonna bet this means we're getting more emails from Reyes and maybe Gil, too. I hope that's the case. I mean, I'll always want more but any extra content will make me super happy. I think I got more emails after that last patch and they also updated your crew's feelings about you in the codex entries. Ooh, you got more emails? From whom?
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Post by Obiwancomeblowme on Apr 9, 2017 18:51:54 GMT
I am so very tired of all the talk about how making Jaal bi would hinder the romance with Sara in any way. We know Bioware is lazy and that romances for Peebee are identical for both Ryders, literally nothing but pronouns are changed. Why would the story for Jaal change in any way? How would giving m/m players a squadmate hurt your story as Sara? It wouldn't. It's not about that for me. It's how awful it would look model-wise. As for Jaal himself, it would be another guy who talks and likes females and their bodies who suddenly likes a guy too though never showed that before. Like Anders was hot for Nate in DAA, so when he was shown to be bi in DA2 it wasn't a surprise, but Jaal being bi would be like Zev saying he prefers women. It's not about Sara, it's how he is already written. Reyes only talks about ex girlfriends, and he is a bi option. Bisexuals can date 100 women and still end up with a man. That's just how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 18:52:29 GMT
I think I got more emails after that last patch and they also updated your crew's feelings about you in the codex entries. Ooh, you got more emails? From whom? I had one from Akksul I never got before when I played post-game. He felt bad for what he did to Jaal and said he might not ever like aliens, but he would try. And he sent an inspiring quote to Sara.
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