leadintea
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Post by leadintea on Apr 11, 2017 16:33:08 GMT
Drack is old and not an LI so he'd be the easiest to get rid of with little complaints. Lexi was also really bland and unremarkable so I could see them getting rid of her as well. The rest, I think, will stay just because of LI status or having room to grow, in Kallo's case mainly.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 11, 2017 16:34:38 GMT
Drack is old and not an LI so he'd be the easiest to get rid of with little complaints. Lexi was also really bland and unremarkable so I could see them getting rid of her as well. The rest, I think, will stay just because of LI status or having room to grow, in Kallo's case mainly. Lexi's in a fairly lofty position along with Kallo, Suvi and to some extent Gil. Being non squad members allows them to stick around for as long as our protagonist does.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 11, 2017 16:38:04 GMT
Based on the banter, Drack could live at least another 20 to 30 years before he died of old age. So unless injury gets in the way, otherwise he should be fine. A person can run marathons and drop dead of some random thing tomorrow.
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Warrior DM
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 11, 2017 16:39:29 GMT
I hope at least half of the squad stays.
Drack, PB, and Jaal seem like the ones to go their own way. Drack and Jaal have obligations to their people, while PB was ready to leave almost immediately.
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Chardonney
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Post by Chardonney on Apr 11, 2017 16:45:14 GMT
Is it too much to expect they learned their lesson and won't do something this stupid again? Yeah I guess that probably is expecting too much, carry on... Agreed 100%. Let's just hope BW really isn't that stupid. Yep, they really should've gotten rid of Kaidan, Ashley, Tali, Liara, Wrex etc. right after ME1. Not.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 11, 2017 16:50:55 GMT
Is it too much to expect they learned their lesson and won't do something this stupid again? Yeah I guess that probably is expecting too much, carry on... Agreed 100%. Let's just hope BW really isn't that stupid. Yep, they really should've gotten rid of Kaidan, Ashley, Tali, Liara, Wrex etc. right after ME1. Not. Your argument it is made of straw. What I said was....
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leadintea
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Post by leadintea on Apr 11, 2017 16:53:29 GMT
Drack is old and not an LI so he'd be the easiest to get rid of with little complaints. Lexi was also really bland and unremarkable so I could see them getting rid of her as well. The rest, I think, will stay just because of LI status or having room to grow, in Kallo's case mainly. Lexi's in a fairly lofty position along with Kallo, Suvi and to some extent Gil. Being non squad members allows them to stick around for as long as our protagonist does. True, but she's pretty boring and doesn't seem to be as popular as the other characters so I could see BW letting her go for a more interesting character with little backlash.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 11, 2017 16:56:08 GMT
Maybe they should just start MEA2 with a scene of Ryder dragging them all kicking and screaming off the ship like that United guy.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 11, 2017 16:56:31 GMT
Lexi's in a fairly lofty position along with Kallo, Suvi and to some extent Gil. Being non squad members allows them to stick around for as long as our protagonist does. True, but she's pretty boring and doesn't seem to be as popular as the other characters so I could see BW letting her go for a more interesting character with little backlash. I like Lexi and think she has a lot of unrealized potential. I was disappointed she wasn't a LI.
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wittand25
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Post by wittand25 on Apr 11, 2017 16:56:47 GMT
Drack is old and not an LI so he'd be the easiest to get rid of with little complaints. Lexi was also really bland and unremarkable so I could see them getting rid of her as well. The rest, I think, will stay just because of LI status or having room to grow, in Kallo's case mainly. The LIs are the most likely to go. All squad-mates left after ME1. The only two companions that re-joined Shepard in ME2, were Tali and Garrus, the two non-romance guarantied survivors. From ME2 to ME3 all left again, with the ME1 companions joining Shepard during the game (some quite late) and other former companions showed up during side quests. Something similar will happen with the next ME game even if Ryder remains the protagonist. Keeping the old squad and crew is simply a bad design decision because it makes it harder for new players to get into the franchise or to build a relationship with the squad-mates, makes development more complicated since the status of the old NPCs must be considered during the whole game instead of being contained in a manageable environment and deprives both the writers and players to get to know new characters.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 16:59:31 GMT
They shouldn't. /thread Lexi's in a fairly lofty position along with Kallo, Suvi and to some extent Gil. Being non squad members allows them to stick around for as long as our protagonist does. True, but she's pretty boring and doesn't seem to be as popular as the other characters so I could see BW letting her go for a more interesting character with little backlash. Lexi unpopular? Every other asari in the game wants to look like her!
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2017 17:02:01 GMT
Drack aside (because it makes sense once he sees Kesh start a family and there's a home for the krogan), I don't think we need to subtract squadmates. We just add in new ones who are fresh out of cryo. If ME2 could have 12 squadmates, MEA2 can do the same. If Drack dies, that allows the addition of 7 new squadmates. No need to get rid of the other 5.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 11, 2017 17:08:25 GMT
I'm not trying to be mean, but it sounds like you kinda are. Or you could read my posts and see it is about story consistency and cohesiveness, but that wouldn't support your side of the issue I suppose. You're right, better to just invent reasons why to try and insult me, whatever works I guess. If they want to continue with the Ryders and continue with the story elements they created you don't just throw out all the supporting characters. If they want to move on to a whole new story, fine go right ahead. Jump us 500 years into the future and show us what became of all of Ryder and the team's hard work. I was definitely more attracted to the MET than the DA series, and following Shepard & Co was a big part of it. Partly that loss of existing squadmates is why I liked ME2 less. I was very happy to see their return in ME3. So I liked DAO. It was enjoyable. I wasn't a huge fan of DA2. Can't place a finger on it precisely but it's true I missed my Warden. However, I really enjoyed DAI (might be the accent of my Inquisitor that I liked, for starters) and we got references to characters from DAO and DA2, if not inclusion. Do I want Ryder back for MEA2? Yes. I also want most if not all the squadmates back. If they're unkillable then there's no reason not to bring them back. I find a recurring cast helps me become more invested in the game. Honestly, I still miss Shepard, but it's clear that Andromeda is not his territory and the mission of the AI is not the mission of a Council Spectre.
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Post by kleindropper on Apr 11, 2017 17:13:42 GMT
Krogan don't die of old age. Drack will head out to fight the Remnant Abyssal after getting a fatal prognosis of some disease from the doc.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 11, 2017 17:28:23 GMT
I wouldn't play the majority/minority game. nevertheless, there is nothing wrong with retaining a cast SO LONG as you actually expand on them. I myself would prefer a few companions to change, but I wouldn't mind them all coming back so long as Bioware feels like they can legitimately expand on them. There's no point in changing characters out if you're just going to bring in another that won't be expanded on, plus I feel a writer is even better when he adds more to an already existing character over takin the easy road and creating an entirely different character. You can't have a cast of thousands, there is barely enough time to have meaninful dialogue with 6, also voice actors and animation aren't free. I have no problem saying most. Most people like variety and new things. This reply right here proves you aren't actually reading other people's replies, try doing that first before arguing. Nothing of what you said had anything to do with what Shadow said. Shadow was saying companions changing doesn't do any good if you aren't going to expand on the character. So either expand on existing characters or bring in new companion(s) and EXPAND on them. Don't just bring in new characters to be lazy. That a good writer doesn't need to bring in a new character every story to keep things fresh or bring "variety". My own take: Expanding on a character is called growth, something that makes a good character and story. Any actual writer knows this. It is actually why the ME team doesn't do as well writing characters and world building because they lack the fundamentals of writing; character growth, world growth, it all matters. Restarting because you can't expand doesn't solve the problem it covers up your inability to make a compelling story or characters. Your way isn't the only way to do things and it isn't even the BEST way. DA team can work their system because they can keep continuity and growth within the world rather then the characters (though the characters you meet more then once do have growth!). ME team doesn't have this and their games aren't about world building as much as they are about the characters which means switching them out all the time is the worst thing they could do. They need to stop applying the DA approach if they are doing a character driven game. If they want a world building game, they need to focus on world building and less on character development. /an actual writer Now on to the question at hand: Drack, Lexi, and Kallo are really the only ones I'd remove or switch out as they have no real ties to Ryder. Anyone who could be an Li should stick around especially as we haven't had a series in which an Li develops romantically in the beginning and sticks all the way through. To me that that would be an interesting thing to explore and if done well could be very rewarding experience and story.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 11, 2017 17:32:09 GMT
You can't have a cast of thousands, there is barely enough time to have meaninful dialogue with 6, also voice actors and animation aren't free. I have no problem saying most. Most people like variety and new things. This reply right here proves you aren't actually reading other people's replies, try doing that first before arguing. Nothing of what you said had anything to do with what Shadow said. Shadow was saying companions changing doesn't do any good if you aren't going to expand on the character. So either expand on existing characters or bring in new companion(s) and EXPAND on them. Don't just bring in new characters to be lazy. That a good writer doesn't need to bring in a new character every story to keep things fresh or bring "variety". My own take: Expanding on a character is called growth, something that makes a good character and story. Any actual writer knows this. It is actually why the ME team doesn't do as well writing characters and world building because they lack the fundamentals of writing; character growth, world growth, it all matters. Restarting because you can't expand doesn't solve the problem it covers up your inability to make a compelling story or characters. Your way isn't the only way to do things and it isn't even the BEST way. DA team can work their system because they can keep continuity and growth within the world rather then the characters (though the characters you meet more then once do have growth!). ME team doesn't have this and their games aren't about world building as much as they are about the characters which means switching them out all the time is the worst thing they could do. They need to stop applying the DA approach if they are doing a character driven game. If they want a world building game, they need to focus on world building and less on character development. /an actual writer Now on to the question at hand: Drack, Lexi, and Kallo are really the only ones I'd remove or switch out as they have no real ties to Ryder. Anyone who could be an Li should stick around especially as we haven't had a series in which an Li develops romantically in the beginning and sticks all the way through. To me that that would be an interesting thing to explore and if done well could be very rewarding experience and story. Yes, I'm sure you're a real writer (one who actually makes money from it). Just like I believe all the internet goobers who claim to work in the "industry"
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sincro
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Post by sincro on Apr 11, 2017 17:39:27 GMT
Drack is old and not an LI so he'd be the easiest to get rid of with little complaints. Lexi was also really bland and unremarkable so I could see them getting rid of her as well. The rest, I think, will stay just because of LI status or having room to grow, in Kallo's case mainly. The LIs are the most likely to go. All squad-mates left after ME1. The only two companions that re-joined Shepard in ME2, were Tali and Garrus, the two non-romance guarantied survivors. From ME2 to ME3 all left again, with the ME1 companions joining Shepard during the game (some quite late) and other former companions showed up during side quests. Something similar will happen with the next ME game even if Ryder remains the protagonist. Keeping the old squad and crew is simply a bad design decision because it makes it harder for new players to get into the franchise or to build a relationship with the squad-mates, makes development more complicated since the status of the old NPCs must be considered during the whole game instead of being contained in a manageable environment and deprives both the writers and players to get to know new characters. Lets step back a moment and realize why they made the squadmate changes in those games. ME1 to ME2: Small squad to huge squad. Of that squad, 1 was guaranteed to die, and another was possible, so right at the start, they only had 4 left to work with. Of those 4, 2 made it into ME2, 1 was a squadmate you could get with your first mission after getting off the opening railroad tracks, and the other you met right away, and picked up late game. 50% retention by my math. 33% if you go with 2 of 6, instead of 2 of 4 guaranteed survivors. Of the other two, Liara gets a whole DLC dedicated to her to expand on her otherwise forgettable cameo, and the other you do meet, but they rightfully don't want to trust you because you chose to hang with a bunch of terrorists. ME2 to ME3: Huge squad back to small squad. ME2 had a massive squad, and given the opening sequence, it is extremely plausible that they are scattered to the winds and unable to be with you. Plus, don't forget, you can finish ME2 and literally have your entire squad save 2 dead. They had to account for that in ME3. But, you still get to start with one of the ME1 squaddies (Ashley or Kaiden), meet and acquire as a squaddie an original ME1 squaddie (Liara) right away, and a ME1&2 one very early (Garrus). The only other holdover who ended up in your squad was Tali, but she came far too late in the game (again) for my taste. Everyone who survived got at least a cameo, if not an integral part to a mission. And, in the end, your squad at the end of ME3 could have been darned near identical to your squad at the end of ME1. Garrus, Liara, Ash or Kaiden, and Tali. James, EDI and Javik are the newbies. And it isn't like EDI is brand new, she was in the entire ME:2. It hasn't been spoiled yet for me, so I don't actually know if it's possible for any of the ME:A squaddies to buy it in game. Which if true is too bad, a choice there to keep or kill one of them to advance the greater good would have added something to the game, and been an actual choice to think about. Given that history, I would be shocked if any follow-on to ME:A doesn't retain 33-50% of the current squad in the next game. You probably won't have access to them during the railroad tracks opening section, but you will probably get access to 1 or 2 of them almost immediately after that, with another one making an early cameo and then joining you with the game about 75% done. For the non-squad, Kallo is probably with you the whole time. Either Suvi or Lexi will be as well. Gil risks being Engineer Adamsed. But, I would be ok with all 4 as permanent Tempest crew. Sadly, we are probably stuck with SAM forever.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 11, 2017 17:39:27 GMT
This reply right here proves you aren't actually reading other people's replies, try doing that first before arguing. Nothing of what you said had anything to do with what Shadow said. Shadow was saying companions changing doesn't do any good if you aren't going to expand on the character. So either expand on existing characters or bring in new companion(s) and EXPAND on them. Don't just bring in new characters to be lazy. That a good writer doesn't need to bring in a new character every story to keep things fresh or bring "variety". My own take: Expanding on a character is called growth, something that makes a good character and story. Any actual writer knows this. It is actually why the ME team doesn't do as well writing characters and world building because they lack the fundamentals of writing; character growth, world growth, it all matters. Restarting because you can't expand doesn't solve the problem it covers up your inability to make a compelling story or characters. Your way isn't the only way to do things and it isn't even the BEST way. DA team can work their system because they can keep continuity and growth within the world rather then the characters (though the characters you meet more then once do have growth!). ME team doesn't have this and their games aren't about world building as much as they are about the characters which means switching them out all the time is the worst thing they could do. They need to stop applying the DA approach if they are doing a character driven game. If they want a world building game, they need to focus on world building and less on character development. /an actual writer Now on to the question at hand: Drack, Lexi, and Kallo are really the only ones I'd remove or switch out as they have no real ties to Ryder. Anyone who could be an Li should stick around especially as we haven't had a series in which an Li develops romantically in the beginning and sticks all the way through. To me that that would be an interesting thing to explore and if done well could be very rewarding experience and story. Yes, I'm sure you're a real writer (one who actually makes money from it). Just like I believe all the internet goobers who claim to work in the "industry" Believe what you want. I'm a biologist as my primary profession. Most of my writing now is analytical since I'm working on research projects, but before this I wrote for fantasy and horror mags (flash fiction). Either way, you are still entirely wrong and you should read replies before you actually argue. Otherwise you look ignorant and unable to follow the thought process of the thread. It also wastes the time of people who take the time to reply to you.
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wittand25
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Post by wittand25 on Apr 11, 2017 18:29:38 GMT
The LIs are the most likely to go. All squad-mates left after ME1. The only two companions that re-joined Shepard in ME2, were Tali and Garrus, the two non-romance guarantied survivors. From ME2 to ME3 all left again, with the ME1 companions joining Shepard during the game (some quite late) and other former companions showed up during side quests. Something similar will happen with the next ME game even if Ryder remains the protagonist. Keeping the old squad and crew is simply a bad design decision because it makes it harder for new players to get into the franchise or to build a relationship with the squad-mates, makes development more complicated since the status of the old NPCs must be considered during the whole game instead of being contained in a manageable environment and deprives both the writers and players to get to know new characters. Lets step back a moment and realize why they made the squadmate changes in those games. ME1 to ME2: Small squad to huge squad. Of that squad, 1 was guaranteed to die, and another was possible, so right at the start, they only had 4 left to work with. Of those 4, 2 made it into ME2, 1 was a squadmate you could get with your first mission after getting off the opening railroad tracks, and the other you met right away, and picked up late game. 50% retention by my math. 33% if you go with 2 of 6, instead of 2 of 4 guaranteed survivors. Of the other two, Liara gets a whole DLC dedicated to her to expand on her otherwise forgettable cameo, and the other you do meet, but they rightfully don't want to trust you because you chose to hang with a bunch of terrorists. ME2 to ME3: Huge squad back to small squad. ME2 had a massive squad, and given the opening sequence, it is extremely plausible that they are scattered to the winds and unable to be with you. Plus, don't forget, you can finish ME2 and literally have your entire squad save 2 dead. They had to account for that in ME3. But, you still get to start with one of the ME1 squaddies (Ashley or Kaiden), meet and acquire as a squaddie an original ME1 squaddie (Liara) right away, and a ME1&2 one very early (Garrus). The only other holdover who ended up in your squad was Tali, but she came far too late in the game (again) for my taste. Everyone who survived got at least a cameo, if not an integral part to a mission. And, in the end, your squad at the end of ME3 could have been darned near identical to your squad at the end of ME1. Garrus, Liara, Ash or Kaiden, and Tali. James, EDI and Javik are the newbies. And it isn't like EDI is brand new, she was in the entire ME:2. It hasn't been spoiled yet for me, so I don't actually know if it's possible for any of the ME:A squaddies to buy it in game. Which if true is too bad, a choice there to keep or kill one of them to advance the greater good would have added something to the game, and been an actual choice to think about. Given that history, I would be shocked if any follow-on to ME:A doesn't retain 33-50% of the current squad in the next game. You probably won't have access to them during the railroad tracks opening section, but you will probably get access to 1 or 2 of them almost immediately after that, with another one making an early cameo and then joining you with the game about 75% done. For the non-squad, Kallo is probably with you the whole time. Either Suvi or Lexi will be as well. Gil risks being Engineer Adamsed. But, I would be ok with all 4 as permanent Tempest crew. Sadly, we are probably stuck with SAM forever. All squad-mates always left in-between games, there is no reason that ME:A will handle it differently in a sequel. I don´t doubt the fixed, non-romanceable crew, that is not affected much by the player (like Joker, Chakwas, EDI in the OT) , will return as crew and that the squad will return as NPCs and temporary companions. Possibly one or at most two fan-favourites/writer´s pets will join as permanent squad-members late in the game, but most will leave and be absent for a large part of the game (safe for phone calls and emails). Assuming anything else, is given the past games, delusion. Accounting for all their possible states simply ties up too many resources and makes the entry for new players hard. It also limits the options to present new viewpoints to the players which is most effectively done using squad-members.
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N3
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 412 Likes: 633
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TaliWhacker
Negative, I am a Meat Popsicle.
412
January 2017
taliwhacker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TaliWhacker on Apr 11, 2017 18:31:20 GMT
It was all a stasis pod dream.
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Glorious Star Lord
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 11, 2017 18:48:12 GMT
Lexi's in a fairly lofty position along with Kallo, Suvi and to some extent Gil. Being non squad members allows them to stick around for as long as our protagonist does. True, but she's pretty boring and doesn't seem to be as popular as the other characters so I could see BW letting her go for a more interesting character with little backlash. I'd prefer a current fixture being improved to maintain continuity to just swapping out characters for the heck of it. I generally enjoy it more when some characters stick around to share the PC's history. Chakwas was boring, but I wouldn't have traded her for anyone else because she went through a lot with Shepard.
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The Smiling Knight
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smilesja
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August 2016
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Post by smilesja on Apr 11, 2017 19:48:26 GMT
They all died in a Tempest crash, including Ryder. So maybe in the next game we can get a good protagonist that we can relate to, great and interesting squadmates that we can care about, and a new ship that doesn't look like a dick when viewed from below.
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bigevil
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 41 Likes: 154
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bigevil
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August 2016
bigevil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by bigevil on Apr 11, 2017 20:00:45 GMT
you get to airlick his ass This completely changes the tone I think you were going for.
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cheeseandonion
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February 2017
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 11, 2017 20:06:18 GMT
A fatal kayaking incident that leaves Ryder as a traumatised Sole Survivor.
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Psi-Cop
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Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
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CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
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Post by CrutchCricket on Apr 11, 2017 20:11:30 GMT
I'm surprised some people still think "let's make the entire squad fuck off" is a valid strategy. And I'm not calling anyone out, but "they made the squad fuck off before so they definitely will this time around" smacks more of an aversion to change (on the part of the devs) than just keeping them around.
If you take Star Wars as an example, you lost Ben Kenobi at the end of the first one and temp lost Han at the end of the second one but gained Lando somewhere in between. Or Luke lost most of them in the middle there because he decided to solo it in the second one but came back around for a bit in the third only to go off and solo the final boss in the end. Which... is actually kind of what a lot of players would do if they were allowed to, come to think of it.
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