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Post by thejuice01 on Apr 12, 2017 5:42:19 GMT
Now I've replayed Dragon Age Inquisition yet again and have had a lingering thought on my mind for a while. Does anyone else think Kieran; Morrigans son, should play a major role in the next Dragon Age or a future one?
I haven't really had my game change much on all my DAO play through's as I cant really bring myself to make Alistair perform the ritual with Morrigan, so she always performs it with the Warden. I don't know if any play through's in DAO or DAI truly effect the outcome, or Kieran but after finishing the one mission in Inquisition where you have to track him down with Morrigan and find Flemeth with him I kept wondering. Should he play a critical role in any future Dragon Age games? Either as the main protagonist, antagonist, a companion, etc.
Morrigan and Flemeth kept bringing up his "destiny" and him having the soul of an Old God, and I was just wondering what everyone thought on the matter. Personally believe after everything that happened in DAO and everything involving him and his parents so far in the story, he should have a role in later games. But what are your opinions on him making an appearance in future games? Should he have a major role or be our future hero?
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 12, 2017 5:54:57 GMT
Flemeth already took it away from Kieran and likely passed it on to Morrigan. If it ever becomes relevant (which it should be!) then it will be through her, not Kieran.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 12, 2017 6:13:13 GMT
Now I've replayed Dragon Age Inquisition yet again and have had a lingering thought on my mind for a while. Does anyone else think Kieran; Morrigans son, should play a major role in the next Dragon Age or a future one? I haven't really had my game change much on all my DAO play through's as I cant really bring myself to make Alistair perform the ritual with Morrigan, so she always performs it with the Warden. I don't know if any play through's in DAO or DAI truly effect the outcome, or Kieran but after finishing the one mission in Inquisition where you have to track him down with Morrigan and find Flemeth with him I kept wondering. Should he play a critical role in any future Dragon Age games? Either as the main protagonist, antagonist, a companion, etc. Morrigan and Flemeth kept bringing up his "destiny" and him having the soul of an Old God, and I was just wondering what everyone thought on the matter. Personally believe after everything that happened in DAO and everything involving him and his parents so far in the story, he should have a role in later games. But what are your opinions on him making an appearance in future games? Should he have a major role or be our future hero? Well, they can't have a game where the plot requires either Kieran or the Old God Soul. They don't always exist, after all. So Kieran can't be the PC, and the PC's main task and main distinguishing feature can't be anything that requires either be alive. But they could have the presence of either Kieran or the Old God Soul have a noticeable effect on the games they do release. Kieran could be a party member if he exists, or a major supporting character. Or the loss of the Old God Soul could cause him to mentally collapse and become an abomination... in World States where he had it, of course. And a future PC in a World State where the Old God Soul exists might become its host, or get to choose between becoming its host and letting Morrigan have it, or something along those lines.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 12, 2017 11:56:51 GMT
Well, they can't have a game where the plot requires either Kieran or the Old God Soul. They don't always exist, after all. So Kieran can't be the PC, and the PC's main task and main distinguishing feature can't be anything that requires either be alive. I don't understand why people never seem to consider this. This goes for anything regarding the Warden as well. Those characters are dead/non-existent for a good chunk of people. They can never have a "major" role in anything. This applies to Kieran as well. Most of those dead Wardens don't have a Kieran. The ones who romanced Morrigan but still died have a son, but he is just a normal kid, NOT the "Old God Baby."
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Post by Iddy on Apr 12, 2017 12:05:32 GMT
I still hope for a cameo featuring adult Kieran.
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Post by Marduk on Apr 12, 2017 12:40:02 GMT
Well, they can't have a game where the plot requires either Kieran or the Old God Soul. They don't always exist, after all. So Kieran can't be the PC, and the PC's main task and main distinguishing feature can't be anything that requires either be alive. I don't understand why people never seem to consider this. This goes for anything regarding the Warden as well. Those characters are dead/non-existent for a good chunk of people. They can never have a "major" role in anything. This applies to Kieran as well. Most of those dead Wardens don't have a Kieran. The ones who romanced Morrigan but still died have a son, but he is just a normal kid, NOT the "Old God Baby." Indeed although they can use save importing to allow roleplaying as for example Kieran (a normal person now) but without major affects, like allowing those that have Kieran to play as him with some NPCs calling you Kieran but act the same way they do with others with certain exceptions (like for example Morrigan having extra dialogues with those that roleplay as Kieran). Sometimes minor affects can be enough though. many that had their Alistair or Loghain had fun with the fade quest in the game. Mike doesn't seem interested to allow roleplaying as the likes of Kieran though (which is understandable business-wise) so we have to settle for cameos or having them as optional party members best case scenario.
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Post by Domakir on Apr 12, 2017 13:05:08 GMT
Well... Kieran doesn't even exists in the majority of the world states so no, he shouldn't.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 12, 2017 13:20:02 GMT
I'd love for him to be a companion in future games. And if he's an adult, i've talked to some who would love the though of romancing him.
But it really depends. If he is, it's likely said future game will have a lot to do with Elves and/or Old Gods. It also depends how far in the future the games take place. For Kieren to be an adult, we need at least another 10 years, give or take. So the chance of these story lines keeping up are not all that likely. The other chance is if Morrigan takes over from Flemeth as the puppeteer of fate and sends Kieren to help a future PC, but she seems to be against using him for her own ends.
It's also a little tricky to implement him since not everyone has him. If 50% of all wardens died then 50% of all Inquisitors never meet Kieren. Having a character that half of the players never meet can be difficult. The writers do do what they want, though, so they may write that Morrigan found another person to have him with. But, then, Morrigan is always in Inquisition no matter what the Warden does, as is Leliana even if you chop her head off or never meet her. The only other thing i can think of him being included in is a potential story of curing the blight. It can be assumed that he is immune to it as he was born with taint inside him (Morrigan says this is why the Old God Soul will seek him out) and he is helping a Grey Warden cure it. Many would be happy to be a Warden again, and i think it will be necessary if Thedas is to stop the Blights.
He's an inconsequential character now, since Flemeth took the soul. The only things that make him important are his family ties to Flemeth and Morrigan and potential fatherly ties to Alistair of the HOF.
If they do decide to give him a big role in future games, i think it could be interesting, especially if he has some differences depending on Morrigan's fate. You can help her and make her a softer, kinder person if you choose to help her have Kieren, or she can still be as manipulative as she was before if she doesn't have him with the Warden.
Never the less, i would say it is very unlikely we will see him again in more than a brief cameo or a mention. It's very fun to speculate what can be done with his character.
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Post by phoray on Apr 12, 2017 14:12:32 GMT
I still hope for a cameo featuring adult Kieran. because Connor's went so well. He's so friggen miserable, I consider killing him now just to prevent that sad self hating future.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 12, 2017 14:28:54 GMT
I still hope for a cameo featuring adult Kieran. because Connor's went so well. He's so friggen miserable, I consider killing him now just to prevent that sad self hating future. It's part of the problem of bringing back characters that have so many different fates. Connor has death, possession, save via the fade, saved via blood magic and so on. But because "Death" is on that list, the most they could give is a brief cameo because there are wardens who killed him. I mean, given what he did to Redcliffe before and what he expects the Magister will do to it now, i can understand him being less than thrilled with being there. But they couldn't offer more than "HERE'S CONNOR", because he was a minor character with many fates. Kieren has 2 fates. He's born or he is not. So a cameo with him might be easier, but it will still probably be far less than what people hope for.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 12, 2017 16:40:28 GMT
I still hope for a cameo featuring adult Kieran. because Connor's went so well. He's so friggen miserable, I consider killing him now just to prevent that sad self hating future. I can imagine OG Kieran having issues dealing with the removal of the OG soul. However, adult human Kieran should be the happiest dude that ever happied.
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Post by phoray on Apr 12, 2017 17:19:56 GMT
because Connor's went so well. He's so friggen miserable, I consider killing him now just to prevent that sad self hating future. I can imagine OG Kieran having issues dealing with the removal of the OG soul. However, adult human Kieran should be the happiest dude that ever happied. Doesn't that punish the people who chose to not have him in their world states? They were all certain it was going to mean bad things.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 12, 2017 17:20:20 GMT
In one of my current playthroughs, Kieran does not even exist. It's hard to bring a character in, that could be not born at all. Look at the crticism for bringing back Leliana or Anders, who could both be dead. At least they were always born.
And Kieran as a protagonist would mean, I have to play one single character, I could not even decide, if male or female. If I want that, I would play The Witcher. Playing as Hawke worked for me, because I liked that character, but a lot of people didn't, so I guess, it's best for DA to have the more open approach to the protagonist like in DAO or DAI. I think, most people expect that.
Depending on the imported world stat, it would be great to have a Kieran cameo (like Connors), but more than that, is problematic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 17:41:01 GMT
(Groan) No.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 12, 2017 18:24:06 GMT
That ship sailed when they took away his Old God Soul. Now he's just like any other kid and I doubt they'll ever make him an important character. I always thought they should've made Kieran a canon character... if the Warden and Alistair refuse the dark ritual, Morrigan could've just gone to Riordan.
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Post by thejuice01 on Apr 12, 2017 18:26:39 GMT
I haven't had a game where my warden died so as I said I wasn't sure if that had any effect on morrigan having a child or not and him having an old god soul. Guess I should've read into it or something a bit more. Even after I know how much a game could change I just didn't think of the fact that Kieran might not exist at all. But this is pretty enlightening as it shed some light on something i completely overlooked.
I get it though it could cause serious issues or be a completely different game if he was involved in anyway if he wasn't even born to begin with in someone's play through.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 12, 2017 19:09:40 GMT
There are three possibilities for Kieran; either he doesn't exist, he exists but is a normal person or he exists and had a somewhat traumatic childhood due to being occupied by the soul of an old god. The normal Kieran is often forgotten by people who want him to play a role. Flemeth of course is not interested in a normal Kieran but he still seems to bring out the better side of Morrigan. She expressed regret to my Inquisitor that she had parted on bad terms with his father, who was still alive because Loghain took the dive at the end of DAO.
However, if he exists, the main significance for Kieran now would be if he either was fathered by Alistair or the Cousland Warden who married Anora, as in both cases he might well have a claim on the Ferelden Throne, particularly if there are no legitimate offspring. That might have been an interesting scenario for down the line (after the Solas problem has been dealt with), except that in addition to the non-existent Kieran there would also be the half elf and half dwarf Kierans, who would have no significance with respect to the throne. So that would be a non-starter too.
Basically, Kieran was a minor character who they have dealt with and doesn't really have any real reason why he should be involved in events in the future. At best I imagine that should Morrigan reappear she will simply mention that she has a son and what he is now doing, probably living a happy normal life without her.
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Post by Max Deltree on Apr 12, 2017 19:11:29 GMT
I don't understand why Kieran couldn't exist if we did not romance Morrigan. She could have him with anyone, after all. They should just have mentioned she had a son somewhere, to make it easier to use him in a future game.
But I'm one of those people that love Dragon Age games to be interconnected, although not dependable. I wanna see previous games characters showing up, getting older and having sons and daughters and they be at large in the world. That's what makes a fictional setting alive, to me.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 13, 2017 2:14:56 GMT
They have repeatedly stated that the OGB choice will be respected, and I'm holding them to that.
Besides, what is even the point if she has some random kid with some other dude? The potential for Kieran is based on a few specific events. He either had the soul of the Old God archdemon, or he might be the son of Ferelden's king, king consort, or the Cousland Warden, which gives him ties to the throne. That's it. Having him be the normal son of some random guy means absolutely nothing except that Morrigan had a child. What would be his importance? Why would they want to "use" that child in something? Just to manipulate Morrigan via the plot, working her motherhood? Bleh, they already did that in DAI.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 13, 2017 7:41:02 GMT
That ship sailed when they took away his Old God Soul. Now he's just like any other kid and I doubt they'll ever make him an important character. I always thought they should've made Kieran a canon character... if the Warden and Alistair refuse the dark ritual, Morrigan could've just gone to Riordan. They gave a reason she couldn't do that. Though I suppose we only have her own word for that. Still, would Riordan have helped her with that?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 13, 2017 8:00:52 GMT
That ship sailed when they took away his Old God Soul. Now he's just like any other kid and I doubt they'll ever make him an important character. I always thought they should've made Kieran a canon character... if the Warden and Alistair refuse the dark ritual, Morrigan could've just gone to Riordan. They gave a reason she couldn't do that. Though I suppose we only have her own word for that. Still, would Riordan have helped her with that? Her reasoning in the game was that he is too old and not suitable. Was there some other reason stated later on by the devs? I mean, she does it with Loghain if you set it up, and he weren't no spring chicken. At any rate, the point was to give the player a choice regarding the method by which they live or die (or order someone else to die). If she had gone to Riordan regardless, the Warden would have lived. I know some people would like that because that negates any excuse for them not bringing back the Warden, but that is how it is. My canon Warden is alive because she made Alistair do the ritual, but I want them to respect that choice for all those players who heard her offer and purposely chose to refuse it for whatever reason.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 13, 2017 8:01:22 GMT
That ship sailed when they took away his Old God Soul. Now he's just like any other kid and I doubt they'll ever make him an important character. I always thought they should've made Kieran a canon character... if the Warden and Alistair refuse the dark ritual, Morrigan could've just gone to Riordan. They gave a reason she couldn't do that. Though I suppose we only have her own word for that. Still, would Riordan have helped her with that? Grey Wardens would do anything to stop the Blight. And if the reason was because Riordan had been a Grey Warden for longer, well I doubt there's any proof if that theory is actually even correct or not. And besides, if they had wanted BW surely could've re-written certain parts of the game to make Kieran canon. It's their setting and rules, after all.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 13, 2017 8:05:01 GMT
They gave a reason she couldn't do that. Though I suppose we only have her own word for that. Still, would Riordan have helped her with that? Her reasoning in the game was that he is too old and not suitable. Was there some other reason stated later on by the devs? I mean, she does it with Loghain if you set it up, and he weren't no spring chicken. At any rate, the point was to give the player a choice regarding the method by which they live or die (or order someone else to die). If she had gone to Riordan regardless, the Warden would have lived. I know some people would like that because that negates any excuse for them not bringing back the Warden, but that is how it is. My canon Warden is alive because she made Alistair do the ritual, but I want them to respect that choice for all those players who heard her offer and purposely chose to refuse it for whatever reason. It was because Riordan had been a Warden for too long (and thus infertile), not because he was old. But yes, you are right about the choice. Being able to do the sacrifice was important and good for the story. I wouldn't change that. I'm sure, if they had wanted to make Morrigan's son canon, they could've done so by re-writing certain things and still keep that choice at the end.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 13, 2017 8:06:15 GMT
But if it's just some normal kid, fathered by some guy, why is it important or meaningful?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 13, 2017 8:51:52 GMT
They gave a reason she couldn't do that. Though I suppose we only have her own word for that. Still, would Riordan have helped her with that? Grey Wardens would do anything to stop the Blight. And if the reason was because Riordan had been a Grey Warden for longer, well I doubt there's any proof if that theory is actually even correct or not. The DR doesn't help stop the Blight. It merely allows the Warden who does stop the Blight to survive. And as far as Riordan knows, the fact that the Old God who became the Fifth Archdemon survives could allow the Fifth Blight to restart some day. Hell, I don't think it's been established even to us that that can't happen. If anyone with enough combat ability to kill the Archdemon could end the Blight once Morrigan had done the DR, that would be different. At that point, the DR could help end the Blight. Or even if it just temporarily purified the Old God, and the darkspawn could just re-taint him later, anyone being able to create an interbellum is probably in balance safer than needing one of three very mortal people to live long enough to solve the problem permanently. But disregarding the fact that Gaider said that a Warden still needs to strike the final blow, Morrigan would mention if it obviated that requirement, for that very reason. True. But why would they? It would make the decisions that should have resulted in him not existing have less of an impact, and what benefit would there be?
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