Should Kieran play a major role in the next Dragon Age? (Spoiler)

It's not like they haven't made her suffer before. You have the option of making her literally unable to disobey a woman who abused her for years, causing lasting damage to her mind, and whose motives Morrigan constantly assumes the worst of.

Besides, Gaider's not at the top of this particular heap anymore.


It wouldn't, would it?



But if that's the handwave they used, I'm still not sure it answers my actual objection.

She does in fact betray the warden depending on the circumstances.
Even if she was romanced/befriended and the Old god soul is being denied to her, she leaves saying she has no reason to be in the party anymore.So,even if she did join the HoF under the pretense that stopping the archdemon was of prime priority she never cared about that goal. Then much later, after the PC may have learnt to be unable to escape death even in victory, she gives them a choice. A choice she had every moment in time to inform them about, but she kept it to herself for as long as she could to ensure that the PC wouldn't have a lot of time to ponder the consequences. She even does this to wardens she falls in love with.

The choice is "if you want to ensure nobody dies, let me cast this ancient magic which will save the god of the old Tevinter imperium in my belly. What this will mean for the world, I will not tell you. But I will leave if you deny me."

Turns out she lied. Stopping the archdemon was never her highest priority - in fact she prefers staying out of the fight to save her own skin over fighting the dragon. What she wants is to carry this primordial soul and nothing else AND THESE WERE'NT THE TERMS NOR THE CONDITIONS TO WHOM SHE JOINED THE PARTY.

But she wants you to, in panic to unleash this creature upon the world to ensure your individual survival.


Again, she chose to leave the choice until the last minute to manipulate the warden as well as possible. Had she told earlier, it would have been much easier to say No. But she's tricksy.

I don't think this is a stretch for how a warden could read the situation.

Actually,the lies go even deeper than that with Morrigan.

Her first major plot point is her asking you to kill Flemeth because Flemeth plans on taking over her body and she can't trust Flemeth etc. etc.

Then, after you've dealt with Flemeth, she tells you that the reason she joined you is because Flemeth and her made a plan to get an old god soul. Flemeth, the person she doesn't trust and asked you to kill. And she wants you to go through with this plan and give her the OGB for a purpose she won't tell you about (a purpose that was planned by someone who raises daughters and takes over their bodies) and if you don't do what she wants you to do she leaves you.So Yea I see her actions as a betrayal simply because she joined the party under false pretences.
PS
I hope she suffered a lot when I murder-knifed her I out all the hatred that I had in my heart when I murder knifed her and now her precious old god is nothing but dust.

Morrigan might simply not have told Riordan her true intentions. In other words, she could've simply seduced him. 

I think making Kieran canon would've been better for the storytelling, but at the same time I wouldn't want it to lessen the impact of the choice the player has. I think US is a great ending for the Hero's story. I guess there could've somehow been a way to still keep those different choices and have Kieran in the story, but like I said it didn't happen.

I would have preferred if in those worldstates where Kieran does exists, Flemeth hadn't taken away his Old God Soul, because again that seems to lessen the choice as well, even if the reasons why they did it are understandable (there are so many worldstates where Kieran doesn't even exists). 

He'd be wasting energy right before a forced march into a battle. That's a bad idea if you're doing it for any reason other than not dying.

And that assumes you can do the ritual without realizing it. If the bit where the male participant moves backwards as Morrigan comes towards him is part of the ritual, it seems like she'd probably need to explain what she was doing to get him to do it. (Especially if it's not the only thing the ritual participant needs to do aside from doing Morrigan.)

Not without somehow reworking the way the DR reworks the US. Like I said in response to Walter Black, under the rules we're given the DR doesn't seem like it could save the Old God without saving the Warden.



I think that's a little premature. It could still have an impact. We don't know that it died with Flemeth. It could have been absorbed by Solas, or pushed into the mirror with whatever energy Flemeth pushes into it in any World State. And since Solas is probably the Final Boss of the next game there's plenty of room for it to have an impact if he has it.

That's why Stroud was there. Stroud was the replacement for the scenarios where Loghain or Alistair wasn't around. The role in that case was a grey warden contact for Hawke. That it could potentially be Alistair or Loghain doesn't make those characters significant, seeing as how they could be replaced by another warden the player was only familiar with (just barely) from a small role in DA2. It's meaningful for players who made that choice to see them again, but the role that warden plays is not unique to the character; it could have been any senior warden.

In fact, I think that, considering Hawke, Stroud is the better choice, especially if their sibling was made a warden, as they will have reason to know Stroud, so the fact that he is Hawke's contact makes more sense.

I've simply stated that what you've defined as "multitude of reasons" for rejecting the ritual can be summed up in "not want to gamble the world"
same for those who have accepted it,their headcanon can be summed up in"Gambles the world for personal interests"(don't argue because doing the DR can only be explained on a selfishness basis)it is in their "right"(except that it isn't really a "right",a person isn't a property to whom one can claim a right like in the case of using this child as a lab rat) to do so simply because the game allowed such action,(even killing the elves with Caladrius is in the "right" of the players because it is simply allowed)that doesn't change the fact that what ever their reasons are on the DR they can be always summed up.

Many gamers tend to not finish games...I've learned that in time(I use to act the same way and if it wasn't for the Keep I would have been unable to "finish" DAO),they buy then they put the product on museum searching for another game.

With regard of the DR D.Gaider made it safe because he was since DAO biased towards Morrigan,also Claudia Black and son being involved can you really imagine they would have writed something gruesome as an outcome in regard of the DR(like Flemeth body jumping in the kid)?Impossible.

Push an AD soul into a fetus shouldn't result by default into a good outcome.Old gods are different you have no way to know what kind of influence they can have or even if an OGB can't be simply more evil than another due to his own mindset.

He was thought of as a god by ancient mages capable of things like the Vir Dirthara. Why would he need to use it to fight a bunch of muggles, even if he had it?

But anyway, Flemeth might have shoved it through the mirror with whatever else she shoved through; we don't necessarily see enough of the process that we'd be able to tell the difference.

And you're not wrong that she might have gotten rid of it somewhere else, in which case we should be asking where she put it and why. It is possible she destroyed it, but not likely, since if she wanted it destroyed all she had to do during DA:O was not put the DR plot in motion at all.

I don't think this is obvious as it would seem.These souls can be separated,meaning their powers can be removed from their essence.
If what Flemeth wanted were the powers she may have decided to destroy or banish the soul once she gained it's powers.

Point number 1

The series shouldn't give any more relevance NOR BENEFITS to DR-Runners.
The scene in which Kieran was involved in the fade was more cured by the writers as well as the animators compared to the scene in the Altar of Mythal and that irks me.I don't care,I DON'T CARE about how much you or any other DR-runners believe how interesting or charming his character to be,to the point of wanting more exclusive contents from it beyond what you already got(which is the very premise of this Thread),I and WE who don't have it by choice deserve as much quality content and not to be treated like second class costumers just because we didn't kiss Morrigan's ass.Gaider has writed in death punishment in DAO for his absence and then he gave exclusive contents for his presence and now people want more,enough is enough our money aren't less important than yours.


Point number 2

I don't know about what you are talking about nor how you got into that tangential of comprehension by mentioning the voice actors,but suffice to say,don't ever dare to make assumptions over me as you did by implying how rude I'm with your inflated hyperbole as I don't even know who the hell is the person of what you was talking about.
The OGB was retarded to me for his manner of speech and the dual personality it had due to the presence of the former AD soul,and I think he is messed up.I'm not going to change my mind just because you got a different impression.


Point number 3

EA cares about the plotlines of their games since it cost them money,and despite them being against the whole well of sorrow questline which they did in fact personally deleted in DA2 Gaider insisted on it in order to put Morrigan once again on the spotlight which I believe was one of the reason that got him fired under the pressure of EA.So say all you want that EA doesn't care,that doesn't make it true.