raikas
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Post by raikas on Apr 18, 2017 13:28:35 GMT
I thought they were both being ridiculous and that the idea that I needed to side with one of them and not just tell them they were being ridiculous was a failure of both creativity and sensibility on the part of the writers.
That said, I sided with Gil despite the stupidity of his mid-flight changes because Kallo's argument pretty much boiled down to "It makes me sad" (and I liked Kallo overall, so I wanted to be more sympathetic, but not when his argument was so silly). And of course they work it out in the end either way so it doesn't even matter.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 18, 2017 13:33:47 GMT
I sided with Gil and a lot of that had to do with Kallo's reasons. He didn't dislike them because he thought Gil wasn't doing something useful. He was stuck in the past and felt upgrades dishonored the sacrifices others had made. Not a good enough reason.
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DalyaTheTurtle
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Post by DalyaTheTurtle on Apr 18, 2017 15:13:50 GMT
Wish there was a scene showing just how dangerous it is to make changes to a ship mid flight, then maybe people would understand Kallo's side a bit more. Changes to the ship are fine as long as they're approved and are done while the ship is docked somewhere.
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Ianamus
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Post by Ianamus on Apr 18, 2017 15:17:27 GMT
Gil. Shepard modified the Normandy because it wouldnt hold up as it was. Ken and Gabby Adams EDI teamed up to modify the Normandy. EDI modified herself as the mission changed. The Geth upgraded their guns. Its just what you do. But that was groups of people coming up with improvements together, running them by each other and their superiors and then implementing them. Not one guy changing whatever he wants whenever he feels like it. |
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melbella
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Post by melbella on Apr 18, 2017 19:26:58 GMT
Wish there was a scene showing just how dangerous it is to make changes to a ship mid flight, then maybe people would understand Kallo's side a bit more. Changes to the ship are fine as long as they're approved and are done while the ship is docked somewhere. If that was the reason for Kallo's objections, I'd agree, but it isn't. He's worried that something he and his long-dead coworkers designed is being destroyed. It wouldn't matter if it was done in dry dock or anywhere else - he doesn't want the shipped messed with, period. And, depending on what you run into "out there," changes on the fly may be necessary in order to get away from it. |
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Apr 18, 2017 19:42:33 GMT
I side with Kallo because I don't buy into the "single genius" BS. This is the same logic used to pay Wall Street CEOs $15 million bonuses because "they are just that smart and we can't lose them." No, they aren't just that smart. Gil is smart. He's not smarter than a whole team of designers and engineers such that he can jerryrig improvements into systems while they are in operation and he's sleep deprived. Frankly, Gil can get over himself. Now, if he wants to work *with* Kallo to redesign and perfect systems: fire away. Then I have 2 people to identify catastrophes and not relying 100% on 1 guy's flyboy image of himself. Sure, Kallo is moping in the past but frankly caution born of sentimentality is safer and more useful than recklessness born of ego.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 19:46:39 GMT
I sided with Kallo, but made he and Gil work together. Sara didn't want them fighting all the time.
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sdzald
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Post by sdzald on Apr 18, 2017 19:47:53 GMT
Wish there was a scene showing just how dangerous it is to make changes to a ship mid flight, then maybe people would understand Kallo's side a bit more. Changes to the ship are fine as long as they're approved and are done while the ship is docked somewhere. Well there is that time were the Nomad 'breaks down' and the Tempest can not come pick you up because Gil has been working on something, of course Kallo makes the comment about that is why we don't mess with things when on a mission  |
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disgustednoise
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Post by disgustednoise on Apr 18, 2017 19:49:02 GMT
I side with Kallo because I don't buy into the "single genius" BS. This is the same logic used to pay Wall Street CEOs $15 million bonuses because "they are just that smart and we can't lose them." No, they aren't just that smart. Gil is smart. He's not smarter than a whole team of designers and engineers such that he can jerryrig improvements into systems while they are in operation and he's sleep deprived. Frankly, Gil can get over himself. Now, if he wants to work *with* Kallo to redesign and perfect systems: fire away. Then I have 2 people to identify catastrophes and not relying 100% on 1 guy's flyboy image of himself. So the engineer shouldn't do engineer work without the input of a pilot? Sensible. Kallo didn't design anything, he just did the test flying for different engineers that couldn't imagine a problem like the Scourge. That's my biggest problem with Kallo's argument besides the fact that it's illogical and based only on sentimentality, his job is to fly the ship. Why does his opinion about things outside of his job description and area of expertise matter? I may spend a lot of time using toilets, but that doesn't make me qualified to tell a plumber how to do his job. |
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Post by Raga on Apr 18, 2017 20:19:13 GMT
It's not explicitly stated (because I don't have the guy's CV) but it's pretty clear Kallo is not just a pilot but has engineering expertise. Heck, even Gil says the difference between them is methodological ("he's a blueprints guy") rather than being a difference in expertise/skill. If Gil's complaint was "Kallo has no training" he'd be a lot more convincing, but he doesn't use this argument because it's implicit Kallo does have training.
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 18, 2017 22:10:42 GMT
Gil. Shepard modified the Normandy because it wouldnt hold up as it was. Ken and Gabby Adams EDI teamed up to modify the Normandy. EDI modified herself as the mission changed. The Geth upgraded their guns. Its just what you do. But that was groups of people coming up with improvements together, running them by each other and their superiors and then implementing them. Not one guy changing whatever he wants whenever he feels like it. But what do you do when the other person wants nothing changed at all due to sentimentality? Was anyone like this in the OT? No, everyone was open and supportive of change. I would say Gil should have ran his ideas by Ryder. But what does Ryder know about upgrades to the Tempest? And SAM's primary job is helping Ryder on the field. Peebee is too focused on Remnant tech. And the rest of the crew is useless in this area. It's just Gil and Kallo and Kallo offers no reason why Gil shouldn't upgrade other than honoring the dead. Also, by Milky Way standards. The Tempest is a 600 year old ship, a ship that would have been discontinued ages ago for being way too outdated. For all we know, the reason why we were able to evade that flagship could have been because of Gil's upgrades. |
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Seera1024
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Post by Seera1024 on Apr 18, 2017 22:35:29 GMT
But that was groups of people coming up with improvements together, running them by each other and their superiors and then implementing them. Not one guy changing whatever he wants whenever he feels like it. But what do you do when the other person wants nothing changed at all due to sentimentality? Was anyone like this in the OT? No, everyone was open and supportive of change. I would say Gil should have ran his ideas by Ryder. But what does Ryder know about upgrades to the Tempest? And SAM's primary job is helping Ryder on the field. Peebee is too focused on Remnant tech. And the rest of the crew is useless in this area. It's just Gil and Kallo and Kallo offers no reason why Gil shouldn't upgrade other than honoring the dead. Also, by Milky Way standards. The Tempest is a 600 year old ship, a ship that would have been discontinued ages ago for being way too outdated. For all we know, the reason why we were able to evade that flagship could have been because of Gil's upgrades. They still should have been run by Ryder. Even if only due to a timing issue. "Hey, we're going to be docked at the Nexus for a while next week if things hold to plan, hold off on starting the changes until then." Because upgrades don't always go smooth and best to do it while not on a mission where possible. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 19, 2017 0:11:41 GMT
Gil. Shepard modified the Normandy because it wouldnt hold up as it was. Ken and Gabby Adams EDI teamed up to modify the Normandy. EDI modified herself as the mission changed. The Geth upgraded their guns. Its just what you do. But that was groups of people coming up with improvements together, running them by each other and their superiors and then implementing them. Not one guy changing whatever he wants whenever he feels like it. EDI is a group of people now? |
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 19, 2017 6:32:59 GMT
But what do you do when the other person wants nothing changed at all due to sentimentality? Was anyone like this in the OT? No, everyone was open and supportive of change. I would say Gil should have ran his ideas by Ryder. But what does Ryder know about upgrades to the Tempest? And SAM's primary job is helping Ryder on the field. Peebee is too focused on Remnant tech. And the rest of the crew is useless in this area. It's just Gil and Kallo and Kallo offers no reason why Gil shouldn't upgrade other than honoring the dead. Also, by Milky Way standards. The Tempest is a 600 year old ship, a ship that would have been discontinued ages ago for being way too outdated. For all we know, the reason why we were able to evade that flagship could have been because of Gil's upgrades. They still should have been run by Ryder. Even if only due to a timing issue. "Hey, we're going to be docked at the Nexus for a while next week if things hold to plan, hold off on starting the changes until then." Because upgrades don't always go smooth and best to do it while not on a mission where possible. But none of that was done during ME2 when Shepard and crew were upgrading the crap out of the Normandy SR2. Sure Shepard had some control by asking his crew what upgrades they recommend but those upgrades were also done while mid flight and/or docked at whatever place they were docked at while Shepard was on a mission. |
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Post by Eterna on Apr 19, 2017 7:01:01 GMT
Sided with Kallo, but only because Gil tampering with the ship while we are in space is bloody retarded.
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zeratul12
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Post by zeratul12 on Apr 19, 2017 7:24:21 GMT
Leeeet me get this straight There are people here who would allow someone who is described as a wrench jockey with no measurable competence in redesigning a star ship, who blatantly "acts on gut instinct now and deals with the consequences later", who is ok screwing with nav systems MID FUCKING FIGHT while the ship carries 10 other individuals and two pets (whose lives at this point I value over his) and POC putting everyone at risk over the guy who had his hands in designing the bloody ship and values its safety more than almost anything else? Yeah hell no Hey, we haven't blown up yet so he must be doing something right |
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Post by JewlieGhoulie on Apr 19, 2017 19:21:57 GMT
I sided with Kallo cause I want him to love meπ
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elegantpony
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Post by elegantpony on Aug 21, 2021 5:55:35 GMT
Kallo because what kind of moron thinks its OK to modify systems when the ship is ACTIVELY FLYING IN SPACE and WITHOUT anyone's approval!? Certainly not the kind of person who has the right to unchecked control over the goddamn ship. Also Gil has the misconception that the Tempest is his ship or his "baby".
No Gil its MY ship and you can be replaced anytime.
Attitudes like that get people in trouble IRL all the time. Also it didn't help Gils case the he was being a condescending prick the whole time.
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