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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 3, 2016 7:16:03 GMT
It's about time we had a place to really let our analysis skills work on even the tiniest tease or accidental photo. CSI: BSN has discovered interesting things about previous games, so let's see what we can do. The reason for starting this now is because BioWare staff are in the field at events such as Pax West. The spoiler warning is simply because we might, by being clever (or accidentally) get it right. Do you have any theories? No theory is too outlandish but evidence-based (however tenuous) please .
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 3, 2016 8:03:48 GMT
No theories (yet). Just claiming my seat.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MonkMcMueller
PSN: Monk_McMueller
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Post by Monk on Sept 3, 2016 14:26:19 GMT
Basing this on the "recruitment centers" and the N7 pins being handed out, Ryder followed through a similar recruitment center and was so impressive during her training, she partook and reached N7 ranking in record time just prior to the leaving of the Arks.
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Post by Abramsrunner on Sept 3, 2016 14:46:22 GMT
But wasn't Rider confirmed not to be a N7 operator? ^
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 15:21:26 GMT
But wasn't Rider confirmed not to be a N7 operator? ^
I think we might have heard that Ryder has something to do with the N7 but until I find the information from a member of the team I am not standing by that.
Personally, I think everything we do know would be against the idea of Ryder being a member of the N7. Ryder's story is supposedly that of becoming a hero as oppose to a hero becoming a legend as in the case of Shepard. I believe we've also heard that Ryder is green which would be at odds with the N7 program which is very much the epitome of ensuring a candidate is not green. Amongst other things, the N7 program places an emphasis on real experience. If I may sum the N program up in a bit of a joke; the N programs are a bit of a Sue academy in the sense that a graduate of the N7 program has been training in basically everything.
I'll cite the Wikipedia;
"Initially, candidates train for more than 20 hours per day, leading small combat teams through hostile terrain with little sleep or food. Trainees who do well are awarded an internal designation of N1 and are invited to return. Subsequent courses - N2 through N6 - are often held off-planet and include instruction in zero-G combat, military free-fall (parachuting), jetpack flight, combat diving, combat instruction, linguistics, and frontline trauma care for human and alien biology.
The highest grade of training, N6, provides actual combat experience in combat zones throughout the galaxy. If the trainee survives these scenarios in "admirable and effective fashion," he or she finally receives the coveted N7 designation. N7 is the only ICT designation that may be worn on field or dress uniforms.
There is little shame in failing an N course - the training is so extreme that even qualifying for N1 elevates an officer to a position of respect. The universal prestige of merely attending the academy helps to restrain trainees from taking excessive risks in pursuit of higher honors. "
To put it brief; if Ryder has been a part of the N program then Ryder would be the exact opposite of green. N1 is perhaps the only instance where I buy that they could still be considered green. This is not to say, of course, that Ryder could not achieve training similar or exact to the N program over the course of the game.
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Post by Monk on Sept 3, 2016 15:48:19 GMT
^ While the lore and what we've learned about Ryder go against the idea of at least N7 designation, Ryder could still be in the program, say as an N5 or budding, early-entry N6. The games would then act as the training towards the N7 designation.
I'll back up some regarding already having the N7 but, rereading and remembering some about Ryder, the above scenario has a possibility.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 16:01:29 GMT
^ While the lore and what we've learned about Ryder go against the idea of at least N7 designation, Ryder could still be in the program, say as an N5 or budding, early-entry N6. The games would then act as the training towards the N7 designation. I'll back up some regarding already having the N7 but, rereading and remembering some about Ryder, the above scenario has a possibility. I can see the Mass Effect team doing that so you have me convinced the possibility is there. I personally very much dislike the idea and would not consider Ryder green but that does not mean it is not a possibility.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2016 16:16:22 GMT
But wasn't Rider confirmed not to be a N7 operator? ^ The guy in the N7 armor in that first trailer was specifically said to not be the protagonist (before we heard the protagonist's name was Ryder)
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Post by goishen on Sept 3, 2016 16:20:15 GMT
I feel as though we're gonna be like an N2 and that's as far as our character wants to take it. Rising up through the ranks as the game progresses. Why are they sending us? Because we're all that they have, plus the Tempest. Which, face it, has to have the same internal heat sinks that the Normandy had. If we were going to another galaxy, I'd wanna make damn sure that our people had every advantage they could get.
I think that the Tempest edges out the Normandy, but only very slightly. The Alliance brass has seen some of the work that Shepard has done on the Normandy, and wants to start building more ships like that. Now that they have seen the turian designs, they start to make improvements of their own.
What will be interesting, however, is if the turians also design a ship that is a lot like the Tempest and send it with the arks also. Possibly that's what the second ship is, the one with the rain and all that. It will be interesting to see how it matches up against the Tempest, if this is the case. Let's face it, they showed the ship in the trailer and the leak (which was unintentional). It has to mean something.
EDIT : Possibly that could be why the N7 character and the krogan are dropping that one guy (the commander) off of the cliff/ledge. They want his ship.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 16:56:01 GMT
I should note that in the leaked technical footage at 0:13, it appears that the gas-grenade krogan and the squad exit from the same place at close proximity so they are aware of each other from the get-go.
At 0:31, we see an overhead shot of the aforementioned krogan, the squad and the now unconcious human. In the squad, a krogan can be seen as can a human that appears to be male. The third squadmate appears human and blond. I say this because all people in the technical footage appear without their helmet and the head of the human on closer inspection appear to be hair pulled in a bun or ponytail of some sort. The gender of this human I cannot say with certainty but the appearance would correspond, I believe, to a squadmate in the supposed leak. This alleged squadmate is female and blonde.
From 0:31 to 0:50, the squad move closer to the krogan and the unconcious human. At 0:50, the squad with the exception of the blonde squadmate appears to be directing their weaponry at the krogan. This would suggest a lack of trust.
Possibly that the krogan is an uncertain ally or that the krogan was not suppose to utilize the gas-weapon that he did. This is, however, speculation.
As a note, the krogan appears to be immune to the effects of the gas as said krogan shows no reaction to it despite having no helmet. Given that this is not the finished product, it is entirely possible that the krogan and the squad as well will wear helmets in the finished version. The character in the jetpack demonstration also appears to not be wearing a helmet. At 0:34, one of his ears are visible as the dark of his head is framed against the white background thus making it more noticeable.
There is a tattoo on the right cheek of the non-squad human. I tried and failed to find a symbol on the non-squad krogan. I could not any insignias or such on the non-squad characters. I will have to check to be sure but the non-squad human appear to be the same human that is dropped off a building by the N7 in different footage. In that footage, a krogan appears alongside the N7. As I have a close shot of the krogan's face, I might be able to compare to see if it is the same krogan or if it might be the squad krogan.
I should be noted that there might be placeholder characters involved in the case of the leaked footage so all of the above might not apply to the finished version.
Footage source: www.gamerspack.com/2016/04/02/mass-effect-andromeda-technical-footage-leaked/
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 17:22:13 GMT
This is about the following screenshot: images.cdn.stuff.tv/sites/stuff.tv/files/styles/big-image/public/brands/Games/Battlefield_1/mass_effect_andromeda_e3_behind_the_scenes_trailer_screenshot_1.png?itok=IN2BVrKOUpon examination of the screenshot I mentioned in the end of my above post, I believe the human being dropped is the same as the non-squad human that appears in the technical footage. I've concluded this based on how they appear to have not only the same armor but also share the same skin color, hair color and hairstyle. It would also appear the same tattoo is present but it is difficult to be sure with the dropped human. There does appear to be some black color under his right eye which would correspond with the placement of the tattoo. The place featured in the screenshot appears to be the same place as seen in the technical footage but is going by the presence of rain, the "foggy" background and the similar color as well as architecture seen in the screenshot and footage. While it does suggest that the two scenes might take place on the same mission so to speak, it does not necessarily mean that this is certain. Given that I believe we've seen places with a one-case enviroment tt is possible that this is simply a rainy planet and one of these scenes take place at a later date. In regards to the krogan seen in the screenshot, here are some of the possibilities I've considered; One possibility is that krogan that drops the human is the same non-squad krogan seen in the technical footage. This is based upon the armor which seem the same. A strike against this conclusion would be that in the technical footage, the krogan's armor was red while here it appears to be silver-like. The red on the N7's armor is visible to a degree so it would seem the krogan's armor should have appeared red as well. As the technical footage was leaked, it is possible that the color of the armor was simply changed or that the krogan changed his armor. A second possibility is that the krogan that drops the human is the same squad krogan seen in the technical footage. This is based upon the armor which appears to be silvery in the technical footage and so would match the color of the krogan's armor in the screenshot. A strike against this could be that the krogan's armor in the technical footage appears to be black below the head section which it does not appear to be in the screenshot. Screenshot and footage source: images.cdn.stuff.tv/sites/stuff.tv/files/styles/big-image/public/brands/Games/Battlefield_1/mass_effect_andromeda_e3_behind_the_scenes_trailer_screenshot_1.png?itok=IN2BVrKO & h ttp://www.gamerspack.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Screen-Shot-2016-04-03-at-5.31.24-PM-2-e1459730570534.jpg & www.gamerspack.com/2016/04/02/mass-effect-andromeda-technical-footage-leaked/
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 20:31:53 GMT
66.media.tumblr.com/0db377e9ffa41bc49a3a7500e5cabd94/tumblr_nq0igpuLBl1tcxnrzo1_500.png 66.media.tumblr.com/3af358f1dab4214edd8802ad0ae47a7f/tumblr_nq0igpuLBl1tcxnrzo2_1280.png
I cannot remember which trailer this is from but here we see a krogan in what appears to be black with white armor and a female human in white armor. They are running alongside the N7 character. They both bear a resemblence to the squadmates seen in the technical footage. The armor worn by what appeared to be the player character did not look to be N7, however.
We've had it confirmed, I believe, that the N7 character is not the player character so that does make it interesting why the N7 is seen leading what appears to be the player's squadmates. It could suggest numerous things. Three examples would be the N7 is the actual leader of Ryder's team possibly with Ryder acting as pointman in the field, that N7 becomes MIA or KIA leading to them joining Ryder or that these two squadmates of N7 join Ryder. It's very interesting and I rather like the possibility.
It should also be noted that I do not think we've ever seen the N7 character without their helmet. My theory and admittedly hope is that this is because the N7 is a part of the Ryder family and is customizable by the player or their appearance is affected by the appearance of the playable Ryder. It would additionally fit with the story supposedly being more personal.
Note: MIA means Missing in Action and KIA means Killed in Action.
Screenshot source: teeneh.tumblr.com/post/121632666685/i-wanted-to-know-if-we-caught-a-look-at-the-party
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 20:54:35 GMT
I thinking and theorising that the N7 character is going to be in antagonistic role but not necessarily be "evil" so to speak. I'm thinking that they'll start out with command of the team with Ryder possibly being the pointman in the field. Eventually the N7 either disappears or goes rogue with an eventual reveal of why they disappeared or went rogue. I would find it rather odd that the N7 appear the way they have if their role in the game is minor or if their role has them die early on in the story.
My hope is that Ryder is the young sibling who is unestablished and climbing the ranks while N7!Ryder is the older sibling who is established and has climbed the ranks. I feel this could lend itself to some good dynamics if properly executed. Admittedly, the N7!Ryder might also be a parent or an uncle but personally, I think I prefer sibling.
I know N7!Ryder not referring to Ryder by their first name would likely seem odd to a number of people so I thought of some ways around it; N7!Ryder could refer to Ryder by a nickname. This would admittedly might bother some people including myself depending on what the nickname is. That could, however, fit with the two being siblings. A second option could be that Ryder can have a name selected by the player but this may not be worth the cost. A third option could be that the N7!Ryder refers to Ryder by their rank as a way of emphasising that they put away their family relationship when they are working. Later and if following the going rogue theory then it could be a way of N7!Ryder distancing themselves from Ryder by referring to them only by their military rank.
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Post by goishen on Sept 3, 2016 22:01:59 GMT
Also, to further prove my point. In the most current trailer, starting at :29, you see someone with the same body size and shape of the guy being dropped off of the cliff/ledge. If this is the case, and he took what I believe the turian ship down there, then this is not the inside of the Tempest at all. What we're looking at is the inside of the turian ship.
But now, how do we end up seeing it? Maybe a voice recording, that we've somehow hacked together? Maybe we find his body? And then his voice recording?
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Post by shechinah on Sept 3, 2016 22:28:13 GMT
Also, to further prove my point. In the most current trailer, starting at :29, you see someone with the same body size and shape of the guy being dropped off of the cliff/ledge. If this is the case, and he took what I believe the turian ship down there, then this is not the inside of the Tempest at all. What we're looking at is the inside of the turian ship. But now, how do we end up seeing it? Maybe a voice recording, that we've somehow hacked together? Maybe we find his body? And then his voice recording? Is it the E3 2006 trailer you are referring to? Because the character at that time mark seem to be similar as well to the character used to demonstrate the jetpack in the technical footage. I think it is more likely that the character seen at the time mark is the player character especially given the presence of a krogan.
The ship's a bit of an odd case in that it resembles the Normandy but looks neither turian nor human, in my opinion. I think it is because it looks a bit like if the Normandy was flattened. The Normandy looked like it took inspiration from both turian and human ships which made sense since it was a collaboration between the two.
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Post by goishen on Sept 3, 2016 22:37:44 GMT
Is it the E3 2006 trailer you are referring to? Uhhh I think you may have mistyped 2016. If you meant 2016, yes. If you meant 2006, uhh no. EDIT : This one. EDIT x 2 : And no no. I think you have the wrong ship. You're prolly thinking of the Tempest. Which, I agree, does look like a flattened out version of the Normandy. I'm talking about the ship at 1:22 of the video.
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Post by CHRrOME on Sept 4, 2016 3:00:17 GMT
EDIT x 2 : And no no. I think you have the wrong ship. You're prolly thinking of the Tempest. Which, I agree, does look like a flattened out version of the Normandy. I'm talking about the ship at 1:22 of the video. I think that one is just a cargo ship. To me it seems to be not that much bigger than a Kodiak. I mean it's bigger, but not enough to be anything more than a small cargo vessel of sorts imo.
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Post by goishen on Sept 4, 2016 3:25:01 GMT
EDIT x 2 : And no no. I think you have the wrong ship. You're prolly thinking of the Tempest. Which, I agree, does look like a flattened out version of the Normandy. I'm talking about the ship at 1:22 of the video. I think that one is just a cargo ship. To me it seems to be not that much bigger than a Kodiak. I mean it's bigger, but not enough to be anything more than a small cargo vessel of sorts imo. I actually don't think so. I think it is much bigger than you imagine. Besides, why would BioWare go to all of the trouble to put those assets into a trailer that's two minutes long, showing us barely a minute of game play, unless it had some sort of role to play?
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Post by CHRrOME on Sept 4, 2016 12:42:35 GMT
I could be wrong of course, the fact that there's no much in the video to compare the ship size may be the reason of why I'm convinced it's a small vessel. I think some of the scenes showed have an important meaning (like the krogan and the humie throwing the other humie out of the cliff), but others are there just to "complete" the trailer (like fighting/shooting scenes).
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Post by melbella on Sept 4, 2016 17:01:19 GMT
Assuming that the N7 guy is actually an antagonist, I'm getting here a similar vibe to how Bioware handled the grey wardens in DA:I. The act of shitting on a symbol that was important to a protagonist from a previous game. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it does seem part of an overall attitude that pushes moral relativism. (I dislike preachy writers, not necessarily the actual idea)
It wouldn't be the first antagonist to be N7 though. Kai Leng was one, even if he was kicked out (and also a terrible antagonist in-game).
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Post by goishen on Sept 4, 2016 17:35:21 GMT
Assuming that the N7 guy is actually an antagonist, I'm getting here a similar vibe to how Bioware handled the grey wardens in DA:I. The act of shitting on a symbol that was important to a protagonist from a previous game. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it does seem part of an overall attitude that pushes moral relativism. (I dislike preachy writers, not necessarily the actual idea) Right, but if you're from the US... You've heard about spies working for the FBI and CIA. Doesn't shake your faith in them, right? It doesn't really push moral relativism, it just shows that anybody can do anything. It doesn't really matter what part they play in something. N7 is an ideal, not a something that is set in stone.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 4, 2016 20:36:36 GMT
This may be 'hiding in plain sight': Are the fun recruitment sessions at Pax West, this weekend Evidence that Ryder's journey in the game starts at recruitment , even if other members of the family are already with the Alliance in some capacity? Ok, it could be either alliance recruitment or N7 programme recruitment, but the sense I get is that the protagonist is well away from being 'N7 programme' ready.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 4, 2016 21:02:52 GMT
Assuming that the N7 guy is actually an antagonist, I'm getting here a similar vibe to how Bioware handled the grey wardens in DA:I. The act of shitting on a symbol that was important to a protagonist from a previous game. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it does seem part of an overall attitude that pushes moral relativism. (I dislike preachy writers, not necessarily the actual idea) This is a bit lengthier than I intended: While I do disagree about the handling of the Grey Wardens, I can still understand the criticism and your worry but I don't think you need to worry about this. I believe that the Mass Effect team prevously has basically acknowledged that they know how much the N7 insignia means to a number of Mass Effect fans and how it is seen by them as an important icon for the franchise. If the N7 is an antagonist in the game then I don't think the writers intends to portray everyone or even the majority who've earned a proficiency in N program or even the program itself negatively. If one or more N7s are in the role as antagonists then I don't necessarily consider that in itself to be the writers mishandling the N7. Now if all of the N7s act like black and red versions of Cerberus or the writers forget their own lore about the N7 then that would, of course, be something I'd consider an atrocious mishandling. The latter especially considering there's not that much to remember about the N program. If one or even a group of the N7s act xenophobic then I wouldn't consider that to be a mishandling since we know Kai Leng completed all of the Ns including the N7. If there is a screening process then it either does not scrutinize those aspects of a person's character or some simply slips through. I speculate it is likely the former due to how a somewhat xenophobic attitude towards aliens was apparently a result of the First Contact War so many including a number of veterans likely see it as normal. TL:DR - I think it basically comes to the writers providing a counter-balance so to speak; if some of the N7 are basically Ceberus but black and red then there should be other N7s that we meet who show that the former group is not indicative of the N in its entirety. Note: I sincerely hope the N7 is not like Kai Leng. I'd rather they be sympathic in their motivation: they might steal technology from the Andromeda races but they'll do it because they believe it is necessary for the survival of the Milky races. Basically, a character that does what they do because of percieved necessity rather than spite or desiring superiority for them or their race. We've had pro-human antagonists; now I'd like something else. I feel an antagonist that is motivated by necessity could help show the desperation and danger there sometimes lie in the colonisation of strange new land especially when returning to old land is not an option. We can have a sympathic antagonist and we can have a villanous antagonist in the same story; the sympathic antagonist can exemplify desperation and the villanous antagonist can exemplify danger. If we go by the supposed leak then there is a seemingly villanous faction of aliens and a non-villanous faction of aliens so this would not go right over into Unfortunate Implications.
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
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shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Sept 4, 2016 21:16:52 GMT
This may be 'hiding in plain sight': Are the fun recruitment sessions at Pax West, this weekend Evidence that Ryder's journey in the game starts at recruitment , even if other members of the family are already with the Alliance in some capacity? Ok, it could be either alliance recruitment or N7 programme recruitment, but the sense I get is that the protagonist is well away from being 'N7 programme' ready. Interesting.
I feel, however, that I should note that the N7 is the System Alliance military; the Interplanetary Combatives Training (ICT) is a premier school that teaches leadership and combat expertise. It recruits from every branch of Earth's militaries. Basically, I think it is required to be in a the System Alliance military to even qualify for an invitation to the program. The reason the non-human and non-military forces in the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer had N7 associated with them was because they were initially led by N7 commandos and so gained the nickname N7 Special Ops. Because of their efforts, however, the System Alliance allowed the unofficial name to spread as a sign of respect for the various groups' efforts regardless of whether or not they were then or now led by an N7.
I think this heavily suggests that Ryder is a part of the System Alliance military and possibly a candidate for the N program. Perhaps Ryder becomes a part of the System Alliance but it might make more sense if they already are it especially when remembering Ryder knows how to handle a gun. I suppose it is possibly they learned weaponry from their family but I feel the former is a safer bet.
Note: the reason I say N program rather than N7 program is because there are multiple "ranks" in the program before N7 and I sometimes get it muddled.
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Sept 5, 2016 12:39:53 GMT
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