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Post by zeypher on May 7, 2017 7:51:28 GMT
Slimgrin and Costin loved the level of politics displayed in witcher 2 and that aspect is downplayed in 3. W3 is more personal rather than political and doesn't pull of the political angle as well as W2.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 7:59:42 GMT
They handled the political maneuvering and fallout real well in TW2. I need to start TW3...
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2017 12:36:50 GMT
Yes from memory I would agree that W2 had a better plot. W3 suffers especially in the third act, as so many games do. The world hopping bit was not set up well imo. Everything felt a bit rushed towards the end in general.
I much prefer W3 though because it was a personal very emotional story. It's the reason Bioware was my favorite developer foe the past ten years. Their plots are often weak but the narrative is great. W3 is a bit like that too. I mean, even W3 has a much better story and political intrigue than Bioware games but it's much closer in style than W2 was.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 12:49:52 GMT
I prefer TW2 aswell. Not that invested in the main story of TW3, also a few of the storylines i've been Interested in since the first game didn't really pan out the way i expected. The expansions for TW3 however are pure gold, love em.
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Post by slimgrin on May 7, 2017 13:10:22 GMT
It has similar impact, especially for a game of that size. But it's not pulled off with the same panache TW2 did. They had a much bigger task ahead of them and they had to move the lead writer of TW2 to Cyberpunk. So there are some major plot holes and character fuck ups in TW3. That is interesting, because I preferred the storytelling in 3 over 2. You can spoil tag if you want, but do you have examples of the problems with TW3? Mostly it's plot stuff. The white frost is handled poorly, thrown in at the last minute. I actually hate the ambiguous ending I got the first time with Geralt Committing suicide, or not? I don't think Eredin or his generals are well written, and in fact Eredin himself is a cardboard cutout character compared to the likes of Letho or Jaque from the first game. I positively hated what they did to Radovid, just making him looney for the sake of it. All that said, the game does make up for it with the quality side content, emotion and humor. They made Geralt truly relatable for the first time, and the way they alleviate the heavier themes with subtle humor is expertly done. The game never feels oppressive. Also, the expansions are amazing, so they showed when they work on a more manageable scale they can maintain the quality.
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Post by Ieldra on May 7, 2017 15:57:19 GMT
Yes from memory I would agree that W2 had a better plot. W3 suffers especially in the third act, as so many games do. The world hopping bit was not set up well imo. Everything felt a bit rushed towards the end in general. I much prefer W3 though because it was a personal very emotional story. It's the reason Bioware was my favorite developer foe the past ten years. Their plots are often weak but the narrative is great. W3 is a bit like that too. I mean, even W3 has a much better story and political intrigue than Bioware games but it's much closer in style than W2 was. A very good plot doesn't help if you're unable to finish the game because of the damned QTEs. I really wanted to see the rest of TW2, but my motivation got totally sapped in the Kayran fight. I wish I could just cheat *past* these kind of fights. Cheating *through* them isn't enough. Hmm....maybe there are mods. *Goes off to the Nexus* *Nope. No such mod*
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Post by AGECCR on May 7, 2017 16:02:56 GMT
Do we ever learn what happened with Iroveth? My only experience with The Witcher franchise was with the second game. I had a lot of fun with it (combat was awful, though), but I played Iroveth's path. Will I see anything dealing with him in the new game or its DLC's? He was the one character I wanted to see again.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2017 16:20:23 GMT
Do we ever learn what happened with Iroveth? My only experience with The Witcher franchise was with the second game. I had a lot of fun with it (combat was awful, though), but I played Iroveth's path. Will I see anything dealing with him in the new game or its DLC's? He was the one character I wanted to see again. No, he does not return... I was a bit disappointed about that. Roche returns for a pretty important questline. Even Letho does depending on your choices. Several popular book characters. But not him, sorry.
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Post by slimgrin on May 7, 2017 16:21:09 GMT
Yes from memory I would agree that W2 had a better plot. W3 suffers especially in the third act, as so many games do. The world hopping bit was not set up well imo. Everything felt a bit rushed towards the end in general. I much prefer W3 though because it was a personal very emotional story. It's the reason Bioware was my favorite developer foe the past ten years. Their plots are often weak but the narrative is great. W3 is a bit like that too. I mean, even W3 has a much better story and political intrigue than Bioware games but it's much closer in style than W2 was. A very good plot doesn't help if you're unable to finish the game because of the damned QTEs. I really wanted to see the rest of TW2, but my motivation got totally sapped in the Kayran fight. I wish I could just cheat *past* these kind of fights. Cheating *through* them isn't enough. Hmm....maybe there are mods. *Goes off to the Nexus* *Nope. No such mod* You can turn them off in the menu, or go to CDPR's site and upload a save and someone will kill it for you. There's actually a thread dedicated to it and people are still asking to have the Kayran killed. As to Iorveth, they had plans for him in the Novigrad arc but he was sadly cut from the game.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2017 16:30:14 GMT
That stupid Kayran fight was so annoying... don't recall how many attempts it took.
I almost gave up on the game right in the intro, lol. I kept dying during the very first fight inside the castle. Took me maybe ten tries to figure out how to stay alive. NEVER struggled with a game like that before. Usually the first fight is a super easy tutorial.
The game was frustratingly difficult for me at first. At some point it got better and I started enjoying the combat. LOVED combat right away in W3. The game is much easier from start to finish. Which in this case is a good thing imo.
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Post by AGECCR on May 7, 2017 16:31:34 GMT
Do we ever learn what happened with Iroveth? My only experience with The Witcher franchise was with the second game. I had a lot of fun with it (combat was awful, though), but I played Iroveth's path. Will I see anything dealing with him in the new game or its DLC's? He was the one character I wanted to see again. No, he does not return... I was a bit disappointed about that. Roche returns for a pretty important questline. Even Letho does depending on your choices. Several popular book characters. But not him, sorry. Well, crap . Thank you for the info. I'm disappointed in hearing that, as I said he was the one character I wanted to see brought forward. Was he not popular or something?
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Post by simtam on May 7, 2017 21:24:47 GMT
As far as I can tell, Iorveth in TW3 can be found only here (a bigger image at witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Where_is_Iorveth%3F ) I was under impression that the plot holes in TW3 are mostly continuity goofs with regard to the books, for example there is no word of false Ciri during Geralt's meeting with Emhyr.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 7, 2017 23:24:40 GMT
No, he does not return... I was a bit disappointed about that. Roche returns for a pretty important questline. Even Letho does depending on your choices. Several popular book characters. But not him, sorry. Well, crap . Thank you for the info. I'm disappointed in hearing that, as I said he was the one character I wanted to see brought forward. Was he not popular or something? If it makes you feel better his voice actor got plenty of work in the next game.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 7, 2017 23:39:37 GMT
No, he does not return... I was a bit disappointed about that. Roche returns for a pretty important questline. Even Letho does depending on your choices. Several popular book characters. But not him, sorry. Well, crap . Thank you for the info. I'm disappointed in hearing that, as I said he was the one character I wanted to see brought forward. Was he not popular or something? Hard to tell exactly, you can even simulate your choice from TW2 whether you sided with him or Roche, but it has no effect in the game. They probably decided to cut out some content for some reason.
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Post by erikson on May 8, 2017 1:03:30 GMT
That is interesting, because I preferred the storytelling in 3 over 2. You can spoil tag if you want, but do you have examples of the problems with TW3? Mostly it's plot stuff. The white frost is handled poorly, thrown in at the last minute. I actually hate the ambiguous ending I got the first time with Geralt Committing suicide, or not? I don't think Eredin or his generals are well written, and in fact Eredin himself is a cardboard cutout character compared to the likes of Letho or Jaque from the first game. I positively hated what they did to Radovid, just making him looney for the sake of it. All that said, the game does make up for it with the quality side content, emotion and humor. They made Geralt truly relatable for the first time, and the way they alleviate the heavier themes with subtle humor is expertly done. The game never feels oppressive. Also, the expansions are amazing, so they showed when they work on a more manageable scale they can maintain the quality. ok I get it, I probably played the game far enough after it was out to make sure that I got the best endings for the characters. Geralt was much better in this game, and 3 is the reason why I actually came to really like the character. I also agree about Erdin, he is just a standard videogame bad guy (frankly the same criticism that has been leveled at the Archon in Andromeda). I think W3 had much better antagonists in their DLC content HoS and B&W. My major issues with W2 was how episodic it felt, as well as how little agency Geralt seemed to have (always being led about by others). I also remember finding the ending terribly ant-climactic, but I haven't played the game all the way through again, so maybe I'd have a different feeling on a second try.
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Post by smilesja on May 8, 2017 1:38:20 GMT
That is interesting, because I preferred the storytelling in 3 over 2. You can spoil tag if you want, but do you have examples of the problems with TW3? Mostly it's plot stuff. The white frost is handled poorly, thrown in at the last minute. I actually hate the ambiguous ending I got the first time with Geralt Committing suicide, or not? I don't think Eredin or his generals are well written, and in fact Eredin himself is a cardboard cutout character compared to the likes of Letho or Jaque from the first game. I positively hated what they did to Radovid, just making him looney for the sake of it. All that said, the game does make up for it with the quality side content, emotion and humor. They made Geralt truly relatable for the first time, and the way they alleviate the heavier themes with subtle humor is expertly done. The game never feels oppressive. Also, the expansions are amazing, so they showed when they work on a more manageable scale they can maintain the quality. UGH! Don't even get me started on what TW3 did to Radovid. Didn't Ciri have a crush on Eredin in the books? I don't recall.
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Post by slimgrin on May 8, 2017 1:49:24 GMT
Mostly it's plot stuff. The white frost is handled poorly, thrown in at the last minute. I actually hate the ambiguous ending I got the first time with Geralt Committing suicide, or not? I don't think Eredin or his generals are well written, and in fact Eredin himself is a cardboard cutout character compared to the likes of Letho or Jaque from the first game. I positively hated what they did to Radovid, just making him looney for the sake of it. All that said, the game does make up for it with the quality side content, emotion and humor. They made Geralt truly relatable for the first time, and the way they alleviate the heavier themes with subtle humor is expertly done. The game never feels oppressive. Also, the expansions are amazing, so they showed when they work on a more manageable scale they can maintain the quality. UGH! Don't even get me started on what TW3 did to Radovid. Didn't Ciri have a crush on Eredin in the books? I don't recall. What Sapkowski did with her is equal parts brilliant and sadistic. They avoid all of it in the games, and honestly it's more palatable but much weaker writing. Ciri is never meant to be the chosen one, her offspring is...which is why everyone is trying to have her baby. The white Frost isn't meant to happen for thousands of years. Eredin isn't even a major player in the books. This is why I always thought CDPR should never have tried to tackle these plot points since Sap already did. And they should have made a more direct sequel to TW2, centering around politics and warfare. Not the Wild Hunt. One thing they did reflect in the game: everyone Ciri loves, dies.
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Post by killdren88 on May 8, 2017 2:19:36 GMT
Late to the party when it comes to this topic but all the same here's my two cents. BioWare should stop trying to mimic the Skyrim's and the witcher's of the world and go back to what they do best. What they need to realize is that they are not good at open world games. They create these massive Maps and fill it with nothing except pointless collectables. Me personally but I want them to go back to where they shined. Dragon Age Origins in Mass Effect 2 and 3. Creating detailed small Maps that ooze with atmosphere are what they are best at. Despite the plot problems that Mass Effect 3 obviously had, you can't deny that you were sucked in by that finely detailed maps. When they did this they had more time to focus on things like Story character development and many other things. Of course these are two separate apartments the writers and game design, but one can't help but wonder if the maps were more detailed I would have more focus and dedication to the story itself. The actual plot uses about only 10% of the actual map Space the game has. For me personally it made me hard to get sucked into story. I had the same problem of Inquisition. In fact I don't think I even finished my intro playthrough of the game and when I bought it. For me this is war Dragon Age Origins shined. Because you have detailed maps finite space allowing the player to I was right into the world and surroundings and characters. Every inch of space felt like I meant something. BioWare does not need to try to catch up The Witcher or Skyrim. It's clear they don't know what to do to copy their success so they should go back to what they know best. And that is intimate finely crafted world's that you can get lost in the atmosphere of in a much smaller space.
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Post by isaidlunch on May 8, 2017 2:26:20 GMT
I have to wonder what TW3 would've been like if it wasn't open-world.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 8, 2017 2:30:23 GMT
Late to the party when it comes to this topic but all the same here's my two cents. BioWare should stop trying to mimic the Skyrim's and the witcher's of the world and go back to what they do best. What they need to realize is that they are not good at open world games. They create these massive Maps and fill it with nothing except pointless collectables. Me personally but I want them to go back to where they shined. Dragon Age Origins in Mass Effect 2 and 3. Creating detailed small Maps that ooze with atmosphere are what they are best at. Despite the plot problems that Mass Effect 3 obviously had, you can't deny that you were sucked in by that finely detailed maps. When they did this they had more time to focus on things like Story character development and many other things. Of course these are two separate apartments the writers and game design, but one can't help but wonder if the maps were more detailed I would have more focus and dedication to the story itself. The actual plot uses about only 10% of the actual map Space the game has. For me personally it made me hard to get sucked into story. I had the same problem of Inquisition. In fact I don't think I even finished my intro playthrough of the game and when I bought it. For me this is war Dragon Age Origins shined. Because you have detailed maps finite space allowing the player to I was right into the world and surroundings and characters. Every inch of space felt like I meant something. BioWare does not need to try to catch up The Witcher or Skyrim. It's clear they don't know what to do to copy their success so they should go back to what they know best. And that is intimate finely crafted world's that you can get lost in the atmosphere of in a much smaller space.
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Post by killdren88 on May 8, 2017 2:32:01 GMT
Late to the party when it comes to this topic but all the same here's my two cents. BioWare should stop trying to mimic the Skyrim's and the witcher's of the world and go back to what they do best. What they need to realize is that they are not good at open world games. They create these massive Maps and fill it with nothing except pointless collectables. Me personally but I want them to go back to where they shined. Dragon Age Origins in Mass Effect 2 and 3. Creating detailed small Maps that ooze with atmosphere are what they are best at. Despite the plot problems that Mass Effect 3 obviously had, you can't deny that you were sucked in by that finely detailed maps. When they did this they had more time to focus on things like Story character development and many other things. Of course these are two separate apartments the writers and game design, but one can't help but wonder if the maps were more detailed I would have more focus and dedication to the story itself. The actual plot uses about only 10% of the actual map Space the game has. For me personally it made me hard to get sucked into story. I had the same problem of Inquisition. In fact I don't think I even finished my intro playthrough of the game and when I bought it. For me this is war Dragon Age Origins shined. Because you have detailed maps finite space allowing the player to I was right into the world and surroundings and characters. Every inch of space felt like I meant something. BioWare does not need to try to catch up The Witcher or Skyrim. It's clear they don't know what to do to copy their success so they should go back to what they know best. And that is intimate finely crafted world's that you can get lost in the atmosphere of in a much smaller space. Eh, on my phone right now... I'll edit when I get home.
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Post by simtam on May 8, 2017 5:00:32 GMT
Hmm I was listening the other day to that guy who talks so much on the youtube about video games, and he actually surprised me by saying that when he had been playing TW3, he had started making up a theory, taking the cue that wherever Wild Hunt appears there is this chill, frost, snow, ice - that somehow the very act of using portals between worlds tends to bring this drop of temperature, sucking out energy, etcaetera - and so that it hit the homeworld of the Wild Hunt the harder the more they sought a solution for it elsewhere. And that is something that I am okay with - that the phenomenon surged in recent years passing between books and games, and everybody jumped in to call it "White Frost", because there was some well-known prophecy conveniently perpetuating around, while the conjecture that it is of the same natural science origin as the Earth ice ages, well... that idea was not very well advanced among Geralt's contemporaries. And that generally suits as an extension to the book series lore; I don't even remember the book instances of Wild Hunt to freeze stuff around on scale that big. But I would hardly suspect that people would go that geeky on a video rpg game plot as this guy did.
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Post by erikson on May 9, 2017 1:55:05 GMT
UGH! Don't even get me started on what TW3 did to Radovid. Didn't Ciri have a crush on Eredin in the books? I don't recall. What Sapkowski did with her is equal parts brilliant and sadistic. They avoid all of it in the games, and honestly it's more palatable but much weaker writing. Ciri is never meant to be the chosen one, her offspring is...which is why everyone is trying to have her baby. The white Frost isn't meant to happen for thousands of years. Eredin isn't even a major player in the books. This is why I always thought CDPR should never have tried to tackle these plot points since Sap already did. And they should have made a more direct sequel to TW2, centering around politics and warfare. Not the Wild Hunt. One thing they did reflect in the game: everyone Ciri loves, dies. I can see that without having read the source material I barely understand the lore really. Question: Do you think a spin-off could be made with Cirir as the protagonist (either set after this game, inbetween the end of the books and the start of the games, or contemporaneous with the books) or do you think they have closed off that possibility?
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Post by KaiserShep on May 9, 2017 2:15:33 GMT
I have to wonder what TW3 would've been like if it wasn't open-world. Well, shorter I imagine.
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Post by erikson on May 9, 2017 2:17:38 GMT
I have to wonder what TW3 would've been like if it wasn't open-world. Well, shorter I imagine. Probably like Witcher 2, which I didn't really like very much.
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