dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on May 14, 2018 2:55:40 GMT
I'm running through an Ashley romance and finally got to the relationship-confirming scene. Shepard says something like, "You've always been there for me," and I'm like, "No. No she hasn't. WTF Shepard." He says the same thing to Liara, but at least she acknowledges she wasn't always there. But, yeah, A/K were decidedly not there for Shepard in all of ME2 and a big chunk of ME3. |
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Post by themikefest on May 16, 2018 18:55:52 GMT
When talking to Garrus, at the fob, Shepard will say, "there's no Shepard without Vakarian". If Shepard chooses not to talk with him throughout the game, Shepard will still say that line. Why would Shepard say that if he/she never talked with him until they're in London? Why I ask is because if the player doesn't talk with T'soni in the game, she will not offer her gift. If anyone is interested, here's what happens if the player doesn't talk with any of the characters in ME3 |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 19:03:46 GMT
When talking to Garrus, at the fob, Shepard will say, "there's no Shepard without Vakarian". If Shepard chooses not to talk with him throughout the game, Shepard will still say that line. Why would Shepard say that if he/she never talked with him until they're in London? Why I ask is because if the player doesn't talk with T'soni in the game, she will not offer her gift. If anyone is interested, here's what happens if the player doesn't talk with any of the characters in ME3 I agree. It's a line that should only be said, IMO, if Shepard romances Garrus. Otherwise, it's just too personal and not something a strong-minded, independent thinking Commander would say to one of his/her crew. Of course, if Shepard hasn't bothered to talk with anyone over the course of 3 games, I see no reason why he/she should start in London anyways. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 20, 2018 1:15:18 GMT
gothpunkboy89 : You don't know the difference between a veteran soldier and an archaeologist. I'm done. You are side stepping my question rather then answer it.
Garrus had basic military training before getting into police force. The entire term veteran is meaningless as all that is required is to be an ex member of the armed forces. Which means the guy that completed basic training and then spend 4 years or more as a pencil pusher and who never fired a gun outside of basic training is also considered a veteran. So trying to use the term veteran soldier is meaningless. Garrus on a whim after his arrival on Omega and seeing how it was decided on his own to recruit 12 other members and with no outside support from any government or wealthy investor they engaged in a covert war against the major 3 mercenary groups that practically run the Terminus system. And all while doing it on a major home turf while still being effective enough to unite them and only really running into a problem with one of them betrays the group. This is a massive jump in skill and capabilities far beyond what he should be capable of given we know he only had basic military boot camp then became a C-Sec investigation officer until the events of ME 1. The equivalent of having Grunt literally head butting Reapers to death. And not just the troops I mean actual Reapers.
If you don't know that if one ridiculous jump in capabilities far beyond what the character should normally be capable of is OK. Then all the ridiculous jumps in capabilities far beyond what the character should normally be capable of is equally OK. Then I guess I'm done here to.
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Post by themikefest on May 20, 2018 2:03:16 GMT
Is there any proof that Garrus only received basic military training before joining C-Sec?
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Post by KrrKs on May 20, 2018 14:13:15 GMT
Is there any proof that Garrus only received basic military training before joining C-Sec? There is no definite proof for or against that. What we know from the games:
- As all Turians, Garrus received basic military training at 15. Bootcamp last for one year, after that Turians receive the 3rd of 27 Citicenship tiers.
- Sometime during or after boot camp, Garrus was considered to receive special training for SPECTRE candidates.
- Harkin considers Garrus to be a 'hot-head', who 'still thinks he can change the world'
- Sometime during or after basic training, Garrus was stationed on board a 'Ship' (no type or designation given) and took part in a high -risk anti-pirate operation.
- In ME:3 a general salutes to Garrus. This likely means Garrus' citizenship tier is higher than that of said general.
From outside sources we know that Garrus is supposed to be 2 to 4 years younger than Shepard (being born in 2154, Shepard's age is 28 to 29 during ME1, in 2183). - (Ignoring different year lengths:) This means there are about 8 to 11 (earth) years in between the end of Garrus' basic training and his resignation as C-Sec officer.
- As by Harkin's comment and Garrus' opposition to the strict C-Sec regulations, I find it unlikely that he served the entire time since his basic training in C-Sec.
- I find it unlikely that boot-camp recruits get stationed on a warship participating in risky combat situations. (Though given the Turian militaristic culture, i might be mistaken on that.)
In my eyes, this points to Garrus serving at least some additional time in the military. Additionally: While Garrus likely received a major increase in citizenship level due to being part of the SR-1 anti Saren operation (note: Garrus is not necessarily a ME1 squadmate!), he likely did not increase his rank during his Omega and ME2 time. The six months between ME2 and ME3 don't seem like enough time to rise in citizenship tier to outrank a Menae General. This means that he already had a comparatively high citizenship tier before meeting Shepard. We know that he often argued with Executor Pallin, so he probably did not receive much credit during his C-Sec time.
All this is imho pointing towards Garrus serving at least half of the time since his bootcamp and the start of ME1 in the military and receiving a significant number of commendations. Being given the lead of the Saren investigation leads me to believe that he was at least 3 years in C-Sec. But i don't think it was much more than that (1 to 2 years, maybe). This leaves around 3 to 6 years as enlisted member.
(Sources: ME:Wiki Codex entries for Turians beginning here and Garrus
Final Remark: I can't remember there being an instance where he is referred to specifically as 'military veteran', so it may well be meaning 'C-Sec veteran' instead.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 20, 2018 18:42:15 GMT
- In ME:3 a general salutes to Garrus. This likely means Garrus' citizenship tier is higher than that of said general.
That entirely depends on how similar to real world military culture the Turian's is following. The salute is meant to show respect for the rank if not the person but you can also have higher ranks saluting lower ranks to show respect to the person. With Garrus being the only Turian who knew anything about the Reapers, particularly early in the war effort. And his lobbying efforts and subsequent work was arguably important to the early fighting after the initial invasion. His knowledge and effort would earn a salute of respect from a general that doesn't have his head up his own ass.
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Post by themikefest on May 21, 2018 20:26:09 GMT
Before arriving on Eden Prime, Shepard is talking with Anderson and Nithlus about the protheans. Nithlus will say the relays, Citadel and ship drives are base off of prothean technology. How do they know that? I don't recall anyone mentioning how the other species determined it was prothean tech.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on May 22, 2018 3:27:14 GMT
gothpunkboy89 : You don't know the difference between a veteran soldier and an archaeologist. I'm done. You are side stepping my question rather then answer it. Yes, because I've finally come to understand that all of your arguments are garbage. You sit in the corner, ranting about how all the rest of us are wrong. Fine. Keep sitting there, the only "right" person. |
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Post by opuspace on May 23, 2018 2:12:10 GMT
I'm running through an Ashley romance and finally got to the relationship-confirming scene. Shepard says something like, "You've always been there for me," and I'm like, "No. No she hasn't. WTF Shepard." He says the same thing to Liara, but at least she acknowledges she wasn't always there. But, yeah, A/K were decidedly not there for Shepard in all of ME2 and a big chunk of ME3. Not their fault a certain Asari didn't tell them... But to be honest, I still don't see Ashley or Kaidan being able to join just because they're invited to join by Shepard during ME2. I mean, seriously, just like that? They can do that, hop ships so quickly like how Ashley was transferred on Eden Prime? Actually, that one makes more sense than joining up with Cerberus. Still, would have been awesome had they been sent to join as a spy on Shepard and Cerberus to make sure Shepard's the real one. |
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2018 2:33:50 GMT
But to be honest, I still don't see Ashley or Kaidan being able to join just because they're invited to join by Shepard during ME2. I mean, seriously, just like that? I have an issue with Donnely, Daniels, Moreau and Chakwas leaving the Alliance so easily to work with Cerberus and then in ME3, be able to return to serve with the Alliance. But because of the reapers, I guess it doesn't matter since its all hands on deck to deal with the reapers. I like that. Maybe when the trilogy gets a reboot. |
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Post by melbella on May 23, 2018 2:42:09 GMT
It would be pretty funny if they ended up spying on the clone instead.  |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 23, 2018 13:13:08 GMT
You are side stepping my question rather then answer it. Yes, because I've finally come to understand that all of your arguments are garbage. You sit in the corner, ranting about how all the rest of us are wrong. Fine. Keep sitting there, the only "right" person. But you are calling my arguments garbage and sitting in your corner ranting about how I'm wrong. So why is it OK when you do it, but when I do it it is bad? It is hypocritical to complain when you do the exact same thing. This do as I say not as I do mentality is amusing to say the least, but I have now reached the point I'm genuinely curious if you haven't realized how much of a contradiction your actions are. I bring up legitimate questions and you side step around them or straight up don't answer them. How could that be taken as anything else other then someone avoiding responding to questions because they don't have an actual responds. |
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2018 16:39:22 GMT
I just started an ME2 playthrough. When encountering Jacob for the first time, Shepard is able to ask him a few questions. He says she/he was dead when he saw her/him. Will mention most of the SR1's crew survived. Will mention Pressly by name that he was killed. Also say that the squadmates survived, the asari and quarian. Why is it the player gets more information from him than from anyone else? Why can't those questions be asked to the characters that survived the SR1's destruction?
Another thing about what Jacob says. He will mention the asari by name, Liara, but not the quarians name. Why is that?
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 23, 2018 20:02:26 GMT
Are the Blue Suns supposed to be the dim bulbs of the merc world? I realize that an action RPG is always going to have "mooks," but it does kind of seem like whenever the motivation for the firefights is the weakest, the Suns are somehow involved. For example: - Why start shooting at Shepard's squad as soon as they enter the plague zone? They can't honestly think that any human they see is there to spread the plague, especially since there are human members of the Blue Suns. Harassing Mordin was also not just ill-fated but a heavily questionable use of their time considering that they're under attack from the Blood Pack. If anything, it seems like they'd have benefited by just leaving Shepard and Mordin alone, since it sounds like the slums had been a stable piece of territory for them before the plague started.
- In Zaeed's loyalty mission, Shepard's squad don't even have their weapons drawn when they first meet Vido at the gate, and yet Vido just stands there insulting Zaeed instead of opening fire on them. Not that I'm advocating shooting people who aren't posing an immediate threat, mind you, but it seems unlikely that Vido spares them out of the kindness of his heart, given that just minutes prior, we hear him threatening to kill his *own* people if they retreat.
- In the same mission, in the large room at the end where they send out pyros and the flame-throwing fuel tanks are moving around, the Suns will just walk right into the columns of fire as if they don't notice them.
- How was Warden Kuril's plan even supposed to work? For one thing, the Normandy is still docked, which means that the rest of the crew would have likely mounted a rescue mission if Shepard's squad hadn't escaped. And even if he had successfully sold them, what makes him think they would have obeyed their new "owner"? Unlike the prisoners who would have nowhere else to go if they were sold (except back to prison), Shepard's crew have other options. Even if you think they are essentially outlaws, Kuril should know that they could still go back to Cerberus or the Normandy.
- While Vido is unexpectedly patient at first, Harkin is the opposite - how can somebody as versed in the criminal underworld as he is think it's a good idea to try to kill a Spectre and Archangel just for showing up at his door when they haven't even said why they're there? (Maybe this is more Harkin being dumb than the Suns, though I have to wonder if they really care enough about protecting his operation to keep throwing themselves out there.)
Maybe it's just a coincidence that the Suns were used for the parts where Bioware happened to have the weakest rationale for the obligatory combat, but it does seem like whenever a merc group is doing something stupid, there's a pretty good chance that it's the Blue Suns. The one mention of them in ME3, where they're raiding armament shipments, also seems like a spectacularly wrong-headed thing to do in the middle of a war that they themselves would presumably like to survive. |
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Post by Phantom on May 24, 2018 1:03:00 GMT
Yes, because I've finally come to understand that all of your arguments are garbage. You sit in the corner, ranting about how all the rest of us are wrong. Fine. Keep sitting there, the only "right" person. But you are calling my arguments garbage and sitting in your corner ranting about how I'm wrong. So why is it OK when you do it, but when I do it it is bad? It is hypocritical to complain when you do the exact same thing. This do as I say not as I do mentality is amusing to say the least, but I have now reached the point I'm genuinely curious if you haven't realized how much of a contradiction your actions are. I bring up legitimate questions and you side step around them or straight up don't answer them. How could that be taken as anything else other then someone avoiding responding to questions because they don't have an actual responds. Well your arguments are not well thought out thus why people consider them to be very wrong. It is not hypocritical to bring up your bullshit. Also dmc1001's actions from what I can tell are not contradicting in nature. |
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Post by sugarless on May 24, 2018 2:57:09 GMT
Real first contact.
I haven't read any ME books or read up extensively about the lore, but I would still like to know why all of the more advanced MW races never made "first contact" prior to the "first contact war".
Surely the Asari or Turians would have been exploring the further reaches of the MW and come across the Sol cluster earlier than 2157? Was exploration limited by even their own prothean advanced technology or?
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Post by melbella on May 24, 2018 3:35:15 GMT
The relay to Sol system was covered in ice, pretending to be a moon, so they probably didn't have an easy way to get there.
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Post by sugarless on May 24, 2018 5:59:32 GMT
The relay to Sol system was covered in ice, pretending to be a moon, so they probably didn't have an easy way to get there. Really?
Cue X-files music...I would have expected all those alien abductions/sightings to be explained by ocassional, unofficial visits by the alien MW races...
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Post by dmc1001 on May 24, 2018 6:10:27 GMT
The relay to Sol system was covered in ice, pretending to be a moon, so they probably didn't have an easy way to get there. Really?
Cue X-files music...I would have expected all those alien abductions/sightings to be explained by ocassional, unofficial visits by the alien MW races...
We did get them, but long ago, by the Protheans. As for the UFO's , clearly the product of warped minds. (That said, I saw the "Phoenix Lights" back in the late 90's when they appeared. Nothing was said about what they were for days until the military claimed it was flight exercises. If so, why the delay?) |
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Post by sugarless on May 24, 2018 7:17:18 GMT
Really?
Cue X-files music...I would have expected all those alien abductions/sightings to be explained by ocassional, unofficial visits by the alien MW races...
We did get them, but long ago, by the Protheans. As for the UFO's , clearly the product of warped minds. (That said, I saw the "Phoenix Lights" back in the late 90's when they appeared. Nothing was said about what they were for days until the military claimed it was flight exercises. If so, why the delay?) Wow! I had to look that up because I had no idea. That must have been incredible to witness. I have not been fortunate enough to see any UFO like object/lights or aliens....yet 
edit: cue twilight zone music because there is a movie called The Phoenix Incident about this (made in 2015) and it stars quite a few people who have VO for Bioware: Yuri Lowenthal and Brian Bloom
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Post by melbella on May 24, 2018 12:08:29 GMT
The relay to Sol system was covered in ice, pretending to be a moon, so they probably didn't have an easy way to get there. Really?
Cue X-files music...I would have expected all those alien abductions/sightings to be explained by ocassional, unofficial visits by the alien MW races...
Yep. It's called the "Charon Relay" because it was originally thought to be Pluto's moon, Charon. I don't remember if the reveal was due to the data cache found on Mars or if the files just pointed to the general area and then when folks got there they realized it was a relay and not a moon after all.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on May 24, 2018 14:49:08 GMT
The relay to Sol system was covered in ice, pretending to be a moon, so they probably didn't have an easy way to get there. Really?
Cue X-files music...I would have expected all those alien abductions/sightings to be explained by ocassional, unofficial visits by the alien MW races...
And the salarians do have a vague resemblance to the popular image of "grey aliens." Maybe we should be glad they didn't try to "uplift" us instead of the krogan. |
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Post by AnDromedary on May 24, 2018 16:28:58 GMT
Are the Blue Suns supposed to be the dim bulbs of the merc world? I realize that an action RPG is always going to have "mooks," but it does kind of seem like whenever the motivation for the firefights is the weakest, the Suns are somehow involved. For example: - Why start shooting at Shepard's squad as soon as they enter the plague zone? They can't honestly think that any human they see is there to spread the plague, especially since there are human members of the Blue Suns. Harassing Mordin was also not just ill-fated but a heavily questionable use of their time considering that they're under attack from the Blood Pack. If anything, it seems like they'd have benefited by just leaving Shepard and Mordin alone, since it sounds like the slums had been a stable piece of territory for them before the plague started.
- In Zaeed's loyalty mission, Shepard's squad don't even have their weapons drawn when they first meet Vido at the gate, and yet Vido just stands there insulting Zaeed instead of opening fire on them. Not that I'm advocating shooting people who aren't posing an immediate threat, mind you, but it seems unlikely that Vido spares them out of the kindness of his heart, given that just minutes prior, we hear him threatening to kill his *own* people if they retreat.
- In the same mission, in the large room at the end where they send out pyros and the flame-throwing fuel tanks are moving around, the Suns will just walk right into the columns of fire as if they don't notice them.
- How was Warden Kuril's plan even supposed to work? For one thing, the Normandy is still docked, which means that the rest of the crew would have likely mounted a rescue mission if Shepard's squad hadn't escaped. And even if he had successfully sold them, what makes him think they would have obeyed their new "owner"? Unlike the prisoners who would have nowhere else to go if they were sold (except back to prison), Shepard's crew have other options. Even if you think they are essentially outlaws, Kuril should know that they could still go back to Cerberus or the Normandy.
- While Vido is unexpectedly patient at first, Harkin is the opposite - how can somebody as versed in the criminal underworld as he is think it's a good idea to try to kill a Spectre and Archangel just for showing up at his door when they haven't even said why they're there? (Maybe this is more Harkin being dumb than the Suns, though I have to wonder if they really care enough about protecting his operation to keep throwing themselves out there.)
Maybe it's just a coincidence that the Suns were used for the parts where Bioware happened to have the weakest rationale for the obligatory combat, but it does seem like whenever a merc group is doing something stupid, there's a pretty good chance that it's the Blue Suns. The one mention of them in ME3, where they're raiding armament shipments, also seems like a spectacularly wrong-headed thing to do in the middle of a war that they themselves would presumably like to survive. - It's been a while but IIRC, the mercs who shoot at you in the beginning take orders from that turian dude at the door (back in the hub area). If you convince him to let you in, they won't shoot. If you don't, they are still under orders not to let anyone in or out. They are not so worried that you intentionally will spread the plague but they are just enforcing the quarantine by gunpoint (as we've seen done in so many plaque movies). They also would already know that Shep & company don't intend to cooperate because they know what happened with the turian dude, so they shoot. As for the guys harassing Mordin, I assume they were also looking for medical supplies to hoard them for their own people and they must have figured that a salarian doctor wouldn't make a fuss. Let's face it, Mordin is not what you'd expect from such a figure.
- Well, while this might not make much sense, I guess that falls under the rule of cool and that the bad guy needed to be introduced.
- Yea but then, enemy AI is not that bright, no matter which merc group you are looking at.
- How Kuril was going to deal with the Normandy is a good question but I figure, a dedicated prison station would have means to defend pretty well against an assault from a docked vessel. As for Shepard and their squad being obedient, I doubt he planned to sell them as house slaves but rather as trophies or to some sick bastard who wanted to stage fights or someone with a grudge or whoever. When you talk to that one prisoner in the cell, you will actually find out that this is the fate of most sold prisoners. I doubt many of them would make good working slaves.
- I got the feeling that Harkin panicked when he saw Shepard, Clearly he wasn't expecting that. Besides, Harkin doesn't strike me like the sharpest tool in the shed. Doubtful he even thought that far, especially in the heat of the moment. And it's only a problem if Shepard got officially reinstated (and even then, I don't get the impression that the council made a big fuss out of that). So maybe as far as Harkin knows, Shepard is just some long dead guy who just didn't get the memo yet.  )
So personally, I don't think the blue suns are that much worse than any of the other merc groups. I mean, Look at the eclipse guys, shooting unarmed workers for Nassana Dantius on Illium, they must have known this would effectively make them outlaws in Asari space. And, if I may ask, why did they do that again? Or the Bloodpack Setting up mining operations in a chloride swamp hole that is infested with fricking fire breathing monster insects for reasons that are rather hard to figure out.
If you really go at it in depth, none of them are even very comparable to what you'd expect from mercenaries or PMCs as we know them. They are what they are, cannon fodder for a gameplay mechanic first and foremost.
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Post by themikefest on May 24, 2018 19:00:06 GMT
After talking with the groundskeeper about fish in the lake, he will say "if you get to the presidium, checkout the demel flowers across from the conduit". How does he know its a conduit? Why wouldn't he say statue or relay monument like what the squadmates in ME1 called it?
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