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Post by kenshen19 on Apr 20, 2017 16:39:23 GMT
Other than forcing her to be a crew mate why didn't the initiative just promote this girl to pathfinder and let her do her own thing? If things are as dire as everyone makes it sound then more pathfinders the better and she has been trained for the job. I am almost done with my second run through the game and I haven't found any info as to why this wouldn't happen, have I missed something that might explain this? Apologies if this is/was already discussed I didn't see a thread about this going back a few pages.
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Post by jmb4life on Apr 20, 2017 17:11:34 GMT
I believe Alec Ryder promoted his child over Cora because he wanted them to learn the truth about the Initiative as well as why he chose to go. This is information they wouldn't otherwise be able to understand if they're not a Pathfinder. I thinks its a great setup for future DLC or games with the mystery surrounding Jien Garson and Mama Ryder too.
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Grateful to have this forum. Also, a giant killjoy.
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Post by Shinobu on Apr 20, 2017 17:23:42 GMT
I think it's because each Pathfinder needs a crew and resources. The Nexus didn't have another Tempest and trained pathfinder crew to give her, and perhaps thought her experience was better spent keeping the greenhorn Ryder alive.
As for Alec promoting Sara/Scott over Cora I think it was because he was performing illegal AI research and I guess he thought it was better to force an AI into his child's head rather than Cora's. Also he was using SAM to tell the kids about the Reapers and where Mom was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 17:25:35 GMT
I think it's because each Pathfinder needs a crew and resources. The Nexus didn't have another Tempest and trained pathfinder crew to give her, and perhaps thought her experience was better spent keeping the greenhorn Ryder alive. As for Alec promoting Sara/Scott over Cora I think it was because he was performing illegal AI research and I guess he thought it was better to force an AI into his child's head rather than Cora's. Also he was using SAM to tell the kids about the Reapers and where Mom was. ^ +1 This, and I believe eventually Cora will become a Pathfinder. |
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Motor City Kitty
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Post by orchid on Apr 20, 2017 17:31:08 GMT
Can they make a new special SAM implant like each of the Pathfinders have? That might require too much resources and also cause more and more people demand to become Pathfinders. I can't see Tann &co. wanting to upset the established 1 Pathfinder per species rule.
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Post by abaris on Apr 20, 2017 17:52:16 GMT
I believe Alec Ryder promoted his child over Cora because he wanted them to learn the truth about the Initiative as well as why he chose to go. This is information they wouldn't otherwise be able to understand if they're not a Pathfinder. I thinks its a great setup for future DLC or games with the mystery surrounding Jien Garson and Mama Ryder too. Or more to the point, the developers needed you to be the pathfinder for their concept to continue. We don't see much of Alex prior to his death, but the little we see and the more we learn, the less he would have chosen his child over his trainee. That's not to say, he wouldn't have saved them, but he wouldn't have bestowed the office of pathfinder on a total newb. |
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 20, 2017 18:33:31 GMT
Cora just has the misfortune of being apart of a Bioware trend of Companions who, in any other story would have been the hero, but had to bow to player empowerment. In Jade Empire, Dawn Star's own spiritual powers could have arguably solved the ghost crisis just as readily as the Spirit Monk, but she was made too deferential. In KOTOR, Bastila could have found the Star Maps through Reven's inherited memories, but was made an upjumped Padawan. In Mass Effect, Ashley or Kaiden could have just as easily acquired the Cypher, if Shepard hadn't been so genre savy  . Alistair was technically your superior and standard fantasy hero in Dragon Age: Origins, but was made into a manchild so the Warden could take over. Cassandra was initially the primary driving force behind the Inquisition, but bowed to your Dues Ex Machina. Seriously Bioware, can we have just one ensemble where Companions aren't weakened just to make the player look good  ? |
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Post by themikefest on Apr 20, 2017 18:52:53 GMT
It could have happened differently. As he's dying, he tells the sam thing to transfer to Cora. Once Ryder wakes up, she/he learns that dad tried to transfer sam to Cora, but for some reason there was a problem. At that point, the sam thing transfers everything to Sara/Scott since there is no one else after Cora. I don't know.
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Post by derrame on Apr 20, 2017 18:58:09 GMT
if Cora becomes the pathfinder then we play as her and Ryder is just a squadmate
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 20, 2017 19:32:29 GMT
Cora admits she would suck as a pathfinder...just saying
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Post by abaris on Apr 20, 2017 19:39:30 GMT
Cora admits she would suck as a pathfinder...just saying But she has trained for the job, as opposed to any of the Ryder offspring. So her admitting to suck at the job is just another way of making you feel special about it. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 19:42:20 GMT
You need a SAM to be a pathfinder. Added, she many be great.(i did romance her and I'm am one of her biggest cheerleaders.) but she does not have rallying ability Ryder has. More she has it but Ryder does it better.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 19:43:07 GMT
Cora admits she would suck as a pathfinder...just saying She sucks now because she has a habit of fallowing. She will get better. |
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 20, 2017 19:46:07 GMT
Cora admits she would suck as a pathfinder...just saying She sucks now because she has a habit of fallowing. She will get better. would you not have someone who is ALREADY good at it? Also...some people are followers, she is one of them |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Amirit on Apr 20, 2017 19:50:39 GMT
Cora just has the misfortune of being apart of a Bioware trend of Companions who, in any other story would have been the hero, but had to bow to player empowerment. In Jade Empire, Dawn Star's own spiritual powers could have arguably solved the ghost crisis just as readily as the Spirit Monk, but she was made too deferential. In KOTOR, Bastila could have found the Star Maps through Reven's inherited memories, but was made an upjumped Padawan. In Mass Effect, Ashley or Kaiden could have just as easily acquired the Cypher, if Shepard hadn't been so genre savy . Alistair was technically your superior and standard fantasy hero in Dragon Age: Origins, but was made into a manchild so the Warden could take over. Cassandra was initially the primary driving force behind the Inquisition, but bowed to your Dues Ex Machina. Seriously Bioware, can we have just one ensemble where Companions aren't weakened just to make the player look good ? In some (and I underline some here) SWTOR stories your hero is a real one and only hero without forced overshadowing of/from his companions. Up until KOTET at least, and even there it's OK for the one story that matters - Jedi Knight. But the rest of the game... Not since Baldur's Gate  |
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 20, 2017 19:53:44 GMT
Cora admits she would suck as a pathfinder...just saying But she has trained for the job, as opposed to any of the Ryder offspring. So her admitting to suck at the job is just another way of making you feel special about it. she admits she does because she has a follower mentality. I am in sales, I am good at it because I have the kind of mentality that allows me to approach a customer correctly, no amount of teaching or practice will make up for it if someone lacks that. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 19:54:55 GMT
She sucks now because she has a habit of fallowing. She will get better. would you not have someone who is ALREADY good at it? Also...some people are followers, she is one of them 1. there is no one who would be better at it. 2. And that 's the thing about her story. It's about her learning about standing on her own. She is a follower because she is looking for acceptance. She is or was too busy doing hero worship to figure out she has all the skill and qualities to be a leader. She can lead but she does not have the mindset to do so. That's her growth as a character. She still does not have the mind set yet but she is beginning to get. She's now out of the hero worship stage but is humble enough fallow and help Ryder as they lead. She's eventually going to be a great leader but she is not there yet. |
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 20, 2017 20:00:18 GMT
I think it's exactly as SAM said, in that Alec couldn't bear the idea of no one knowing that Ellen was still alive and in stasis on the Hyperion and that the Iniative was a front for something else. There is also the fact that Cora, at that time in game, despite her training, is not good at being a leader. This is really obvious later in game right after Aya, during the meeting when she (and the rest of your crew, tbh) don't seem to see the benefit of allying with the Angara and misinterprets Jaal's motivations for joining. And that allegiances are based on give and take. Ryder shows those skills from the get go. Also because of what Alec did with SAM it's now impossible to make anyone Pathfinder without killing Scott/Sara.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 20, 2017 20:02:56 GMT
would you not have someone who is ALREADY good at it? Also...some people are followers, she is one of them 1. there is no one who would be better at it. 2. And that 's the thing about her story. It's about her learning about standing on her own. She is a follower because she is looking for acceptance. She is or was too busy doing hero worship to figure out she has all the skill and qualities to be a leader. She can lead but she does not have the mindset to do so. That's her growth as a character. She still does not have the mind set yet but she is beginning to get. She's now out of the hero worship stage but is humble enough fallow and help Ryder as they lead. She's eventually going to be a great leader but she is not there yet. no e of which you can guarantee. Some people simply DO NOT grow into it. |
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Post by abaris on Apr 20, 2017 20:09:44 GMT
But she has trained for the job, as opposed to any of the Ryder offspring. So her admitting to suck at the job is just another way of making you feel special about it. she admits she does because she has a follower mentality. I am in sales, I am good at it because I have the kind of mentality that allows me to approach a customer correctly, no amount of teaching or practice will make up for it if someone lacks that. Don't attempt to synchronize any game premise with real life. In the Elder Scrolls series, you're always the nameless prisoner rising up to greatness. In Bioware games you're forced into a job you're not suited for. Well, apart from the original trilogy where it was a bit more logical to promote the second in command. But that's as far as it goes. The spectre promotion was already pulled from the hindparts as far as logical goes. They need you to be the lonsome wolf and hero right from the get go, since it would be that much harder to write a story that still delivers a sense of achievement. Ultimately that's all there is to it. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 20:11:21 GMT
1. there is no one who would be better at it. 2. And that 's the thing about her story. It's about her learning about standing on her own. She is a follower because she is looking for acceptance. She is or was too busy doing hero worship to figure out she has all the skill and qualities to be a leader. She can lead but she does not have the mindset to do so. That's her growth as a character. She still does not have the mind set yet but she is beginning to get. She's now out of the hero worship stage but is humble enough fallow and help Ryder as they lead. She's eventually going to be a great leader but she is not there yet. no e of which you can guarantee. Some people simply DO NOT grow into it. *looks at Ryder. Sure... Added you start to see it with Cora over time, especially on her loyalty mission. the very moment Cora is there she calms Vederia's 2nd in command down and bring up her moral. Even talk her to having the courage to fight kett on her own. She has it, she just does not know she has it. |
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Post by abaris on Apr 20, 2017 23:28:52 GMT
It's just the usual suspension of disbelief that comes with so many games. I'm fine with that. It's really not worth analizing, since ultimately it boils down to an easy way to put the player in the driver's seat.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 20, 2017 23:41:26 GMT
Alec should have looked around for a container, they're usually full of helmets.
SAM could have stopped Alecs heart to prevent him breathing toxins and placed him in a Cryo pod till we can fix the damage.
Matter of fact we never saw the body did we?
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 0:47:35 GMT
Alec should have looked around for a container, they're usually full of helmets. SAM could have stopped Alecs heart to prevent him breathing toxins and placed him in a Cryo pod till we can fix the damage. Matter of fact we never saw the body did we? 1.ha 2. The problem was not toxins. It was because the planet was in a high vacuum state. Aka little air. Stopping Alec's heart would kill him for good being that an evac would take too long to come and allow a place to recover. |
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Psychedelic
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Psychedelic on Apr 21, 2017 2:10:36 GMT
The question is, why Alec Ryder needed transfer his Pathfinder status at all. What if he had been killed before he could do anything? Avitus says something along the lines "Macen must be alive because the Pathfinder status wasn't transferred to me", so SAM should be able to do that on his own.
I think our dear Alec was planning to do that the whole time, in order to save Ellen (though I doubt Cora would have let her die) and to cover up his "tweaks" to the human SAM and his implant. An AI able to control someone's body isn't going to be popular and one of his children is more likely to hush it up, especially since they have the same type of implant. Doubts about Cora's suitability as Pathfinder may have played a role, but not telling her about it would be real dick move. Maybe he just died at an inconvenient time and didn't get to that before, idk.
And last, but not least, by transferring his status he enables SAM to gain control over his offspring's vital functions to save him/her. This ability seems to be restricted to the current Pathfinder, the implant alone apparently didn't do.
Why someone has to be Pathfinder for SAM to do that and why they didn't make Cora Pathfinder after Ryder has recovered makes about as much sense as crashlanding a ship somewhere and take it as given that the crashsite belongs to you after that. So tl;dr: bad writing.
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. Alistair was technically your superior and standard fantasy hero in Dragon Age: Origins, but was made into a manchild so the Warden could take over. Cassandra was initially the primary driving force behind the Inquisition, but bowed to your Dues Ex Machina. 
?
