Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 19:27:30 GMT
I couldn't agree more. We're the invaders. We have to either find a diplomatic solution or become conquerors. Playing it safe and having cliched boogeyman ("You don't understand the power you're dealing with... really? We ran from the Reapers.") Anyway, playing it safe with story lines is pretty weak in my opinion. Here's the story: collider.com/mass-effect-andromeda-story-problems/
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Post by mofojokers on Apr 20, 2017 19:39:18 GMT
Very interesting read OP definitely understand and agree. Although how interesting would it have been to be Jaal or an Angaran for MEA with the milky way lot arriving.
Very interesting.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 20, 2017 19:41:10 GMT
Well, technically no one knows about the reapers, except Ryder in the end.
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Post by dazzarlok on Apr 20, 2017 19:41:31 GMT
Very interesting read OP definitely understand and agree. Although how interesting would it have been to be Jaal or an Angaran for MEA with the milky way lot arriving. Very interesting. Yeah, that could be pretty cool. Kind of wish they had done that instead.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 20, 2017 19:52:44 GMT
MEA hardly played it safe in anything it did. One of the reasons i contend some parts of the game ended up lacking 'polish' this game was very,very ambitious in everything it tried to do.
On the plot line though i actually liked it. I don't think anyone would like playing the conquerors...yet the game is clearly inspired by the classic age of exploration on Earth. So they have us the Kett.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 19:54:05 GMT
Remotely related, but:
Didn't Bioware say they didn't want the players to treat the Kett as just the bad guys, but for us to actually feel empathy for them? I didn't. Anyone did?
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Post by dazzarlok on Apr 20, 2017 20:03:10 GMT
Remotely related, but: Didn't Bioware say they didn't want the players to treat the Kett as just the bad guys, but actually feel empathy for them? I didn't. Someone did? I...guess we're supposed to feel sorry for the Kett because they are made up of a lot of aliens that were exalted against their will. I guess. I personally never felt anything for the Kett. Just another alien race that uses the whole "Our goal is beyond your comprehension" crap. Maybe Bioware will show something in the sequel that will make me care more.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Apr 20, 2017 20:04:30 GMT
No one had any idea in MEA they were running from the Reapers. It's not even a plot point until the end of the game.
My problem with the article is the fallacy that Shepard is an underdog. It's a laughable notion. Shepard's never an underdog. He/She is goddamn Shepard, already an N7 with several different hero stories to choose from. Paragon or Renegade, there's no losing a battle and that's the way it should be. Expecting that of Ryder, who, as noted in the article, fell "ass backwards" into the Pathfinder is hilarious. Part of the Ryder story is becoming a Pathfinder, not already being a Pathfinder.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 20, 2017 20:07:18 GMT
Good article, even though I wasn't dissapointed in the end as the author. Bioware tried to go the safest route possible with colonization theme, but something went wrong. They made lovey-dovey relations with natives to refute our a little ugly history, only to make native look like incompentent primitives. Ironic in a way. Remotely related, but: Didn't Bioware say they didn't want the players to treat the Kett as just the bad guys, but actually feel empathy for them? I didn't. Someone did? Oh come on. Just look at Archon's sad face in prologue. He's adorable. P.s. This article is entirely spoilerish in nature, don't you think?
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Post by sdzald on Apr 20, 2017 20:08:59 GMT
A fair view of the story. I really don't understand how anyone can think Bioware took a chance on the story. For the most part it is a carbon copy of ME1. I won't go into why I believe that as there are already several very long threads discussing it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 20:14:03 GMT
I was expecting the benevolent take on colonialism, but I also expected the dark path through the game as a traditional conquistador. But the setting of the game did not support another conquerer derived from Ryders' set up. I did not think there was a choice how to go about it without creating different background stories, like in SWTOR. A character from the Exiles would have given them more freedom in how the protagonist deals with the situation in the cluster.
One thing I do agree on is that more cooperation with Angara should have been necessary to unlock the Vaults. Aya subplot is well intergrated, and they avoided forcing Jaal in the party for all planetary stuff -it is not fun when a character is forced for important parts of the game. I found Angara interesting and cool, and I brought Jaal along 100% of the time, roleplaying partnership. But a forced comp? Not really great.
It could have been emphasized more, by providing a clearer view that you either sacrifice the Angara to serve as a distraction for the Kett to conquer their worlds behind their backs, or you cooperate with Angara closer, and establishing mixed settlements. That last one is what in the end they were trying to achieve, and it felt that Angara population is so diminished by kett predation, that the Nexus colonists are nearly the same in number at that point as the Angarans.
Unlike the author, I was okay playing a special destiny human again, though I understand the "I should have played Jaal" sentiment. I don't mind that it all ended well, and it all worked out. I did not have a chance to play an unapppologetic hero in the games for a while, and I don't think it's that bad to get a happy ending and everyone just closing the ranks behind a human unlikely hero for once. I quite enjoyed it actually.
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Post by mofojokers on Apr 20, 2017 20:38:57 GMT
Very interesting read OP definitely understand and agree. Although how interesting would it have been to be Jaal or an Angaran for MEA with the milky way lot arriving. Very interesting. Yeah, that could be pretty cool. Kind of wish they had done that instead. It would of been very interesting indeed. Not playing as human heck it would of been interesting if they let us play as another races pathfinder as well (written in) DAI style. Then again I'd love even further replay by giving us the more dark esk conquer feel as renegade story. While the current would of served as more of the play nice with natives and win as a team paragon play. Still miss these days since it's part of the reason i bought all the trilogy multiple times (steam and console) 😂:
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Apr 20, 2017 20:48:48 GMT
Not playing as human heck it would of been interesting if they let us play as another races pathfinder as well (written in) DAI style. That is something I could have completely gotten behind. I get that this is the Ryder's story, but I would have been just as invested if it had been roleplaying the part as any Pathfinder finding their way into the job.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 20, 2017 20:52:20 GMT
Annihilating and enslaving Angaran primitives sounds fun tbh.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 21:01:40 GMT
MEA hardly played it safe in anything it did. One of the reasons i contend some parts of the game ended up lacking 'polish' this game was very,very ambitious in everything it tried to do. On the plot line though i actually liked it. I don't think anyone would like playing the conquerors...yet the game is clearly inspired by the classic age of exploration on Earth. So they have us the Kett. MEA hardly played it safe in anything it did. One of the reasons i contend some parts of the game ended up lacking 'polish' this game was very,very ambitious in everything it tried to do. I totally agree, but I was referring to the main plotline. It was safe. When you come to think about it, 600 years distance, you're either going to go all self-centered survival or you're going to take the incredibly hard approach of keeping order by not injecting chaos into other races' lives. The Salarians learned the hard way with the Krogan. The Arachni were nearly annihilated by genocide and the Quarians unleashed a paranoid AI community onto the galaxy. Yet, we're bringing all that same baggage with us to Andromeda and are we going to learn from past failures and build upon past successes? Or we going to be our own version of the Reapers? Or we going to be new neighbors who share with the galaxy in a responsible manner? Or are we going to just colonize and give the races a lesser status than us? ALL OF THIS WAS MISSED. Wiff! Strike three, you're outta here!
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 20, 2017 21:09:12 GMT
From Hawke to Inquisitor and now this, (Shepard is kinda okay), I just don't think any of these criticisms are useful. BioWare has an ineptitude for learning. They'll always say "we're listening" but then they address the problem while adding two new ones. At this point I just think they should keep doing what they're doing and accept that their time has come and gone as the "Kings of storytellers" or whatever it is the journalists used to call them.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 21:16:42 GMT
From Hawke to Inquisitor and now this, (Shepard is kinda okay), I just don't think any of these criticisms are useful. BioWare has an ineptitude for learning. They'll always say "we're listening" but then they address the problem while adding two new ones. At this point I just think they should keep doing what they're doing and accept that their time has come and gone as the "Kings of storytellers" or whatever it is the journalists used to call them. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But you're right. Geralt can kiss my ass though. Shepherd, the Hero of Ferelden, the Courier and the kid from 101 all have special places in my heart.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 20, 2017 21:17:12 GMT
It was just boring.
And I'm someone who can get enjoyment from DAI's sidequests and SWTOR kill quests.
There's neat stuff that I hope can keep any future story (DLC, next games) from being so boring.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 21:19:47 GMT
Very interesting read OP definitely understand and agree. Although how interesting would it have been to be Jaal or an Angaran for MEA with the milky way lot arriving. Very interesting. Dude, that would've made heads spin. Seriously, nice idea.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 20, 2017 21:22:04 GMT
From Hawke to Inquisitor and now this, (Shepard is kinda okay), I just don't think any of these criticisms are useful. BioWare has an ineptitude for learning. They'll always say "we're listening" but then they address the problem while adding two new ones. At this point I just think they should keep doing what they're doing and accept that their time has come and gone as the "Kings of storytellers" or whatever it is the journalists used to call them. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But you're right. Geralt can kiss my ass though. Shepherd, the Hero of Ferelden, the Courier and the kid from 101 all have special places in my heart. This is not about Geralt vs BioWare heroes. It's about the fact that BioWare's stories, game-design etc. all hinder their custom-made heroes to be either good as characters or be stuck in interesting overarching plots. I'll always like the BioWare hero more I think but I just can't bring myself to say I think Inquisitor was better than Geralt or Ryder is least of all because their respective stories are really bad.
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Post by rasande on Apr 20, 2017 21:23:13 GMT
Remotely related, but: Didn't Bioware say they didn't want the players to treat the Kett as just the bad guys, but actually feel empathy for them? I didn't. Someone did? Hell no, but i got the vibe that they will probably get the Geth treatment in the next game/DLC. Anyway, i think he makes some really good points but he totally lost me when he brought up the trilogy, where it's basically the exact same deal after the first game. Where loe and behold, humanity saves the day. It's honestly getting silly how people keep praising the OT like it's the fucking Godfather. Yeah it's better written, but not by much. I feel like people have some nostalgia goggles on since the first game is now 10 years old, i have to admit when i was 10 years younger i thought it was amazing and it blew me away but replaying it now i roll my eyes marginally less than i do in Andromeda. But maybe that's just me.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 21:45:52 GMT
Good article, even though I wasn't dissapointed in the end as the author. Bioware tried to go the safest route possible with colonization theme, but something went wrong. They made lovey-dovey relations with natives to refute our a little ugly history, only to make native look like incompentent primitives. Ironic in a way. Remotely related, but: Didn't Bioware say they didn't want the players to treat the Kett as just the bad guys, but actually feel empathy for them? I didn't. Someone did? Oh come on. Just look at Archon's sad face in prologue. He's adorable. P.s. This article is entirely spoilerish in nature, don't you think? But they can't do that in the first game and it's not like it's not part of the plot already. people who say it refutes history for get that what happened with the native Americans took time. the colonist did not just jump out the boat and then started to talk over. it started out as a good relationship. both sides helping one another till one took advantage of the other. and that took time, I would not expect this till later squeal to the game. Added with the fact that they all come from a galaxy where most of the species learn to coexist already and the Argarians are equally as advance as the milkyway races. It would be impossible for the milky way races to start taking out the argarian like the settlers did with the native american. Added with the fact the the kett are doing that anyway already and some place having colonist doing that already like with Kajara. Everytime people give this complaint i wonder if they really did understand what happened with the Indians vs the colonist and why it happened and how long that it actually took to happen.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 21:56:40 GMT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But you're right. Geralt can kiss my ass though. Shepherd, the Hero of Ferelden, the Courier and the kid from 101 all have special places in my heart. This is not about Geralt vs BioWare heroes. It's about the fact that BioWare's stories, game-design etc. all hinder their custom-made heroes to be either good as characters or be stuck in interesting overarching plots. I'll always like the BioWare hero more I think but I just can't bring myself to say I think Inquisitor was better than Geralt or Ryder is least of all because their respective stories are really bad. Roger.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 20, 2017 22:02:40 GMT
Good article, even though I wasn't dissapointed in the end as the author. Bioware tried to go the safest route possible with colonization theme, but something went wrong. They made lovey-dovey relations with natives to refute our a little ugly history, only to make native look like incompentent primitives. Ironic in a way. Oh come on. Just look at Archon's sad face in prologue. He's adorable. P.s. This article is entirely spoilerish in nature, don't you think? But they can't do that in the first game and it's not like it's not part of the plot already. people who say it refutes history for get that what happened with the native Americans took time. the colonist did not just jump out the boat and then started to talk over. it started out as a good relationship. both sides helping one another till one took advantage of the other. and that took time, I would not expect this till later squeal to the game. Added with the fact that they all come from a galaxy where most of the species learn to coexist already and the Argarians are equally as advance as the milkyway races. It would be impossible for the milky way races to start taking out the argarian like the settlers did with the native american. Added with the fact the the kett are doing that anyway already and some place having colonist doing that already like with Kajara. Everytime people give this complaint i wonder if they really did understand what happened with the Indians vs the colonist and why it happened and how long that it actually took to happen. what happened with the native Americans took time. the colonist did not just jump out the boat and then started to talk over. it started out as a good relationship. both sides helping one another till one took advantage of the other.What? Where did you learn history? Wow. I'm a dickhead. I'm sorry. South America colonization? North American colonization of the West? Caribbean Islands? Australia's Aboriginals? Before that two millenium of slave trading before the new world even was first looked upon by Europeans? Things went to hell fast for some and took longer with others, but what you're saying is just another sorry excuse. Horrible.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 22:03:14 GMT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! But you're right. Geralt can kiss my ass though. Shepherd, the Hero of Ferelden, the Courier and the kid from 101 all have special places in my heart. This is not about Geralt vs BioWare heroes. It's about the fact that BioWare's stories, game-design etc. all hinder their custom-made heroes to be either good as characters or be stuck in interesting overarching plots. I'll always like the BioWare hero more I think but I just can't bring myself to say I think Inquisitor was better than Geralt or Ryder is least of all because their respective stories are really bad. I don't see how Ryder's story is bad outside of the kett and how it starts.
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