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Post by suikoden on Apr 22, 2017 19:46:54 GMT
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 22, 2017 19:52:17 GMT
If anything is making BW loose its "heart" it is all the focus being put onto MP and the shooter style combat. I don't need super duper shooter mechanics to have a great RPG. I don't need shooter style MP at all. I do need an interesting world for the story and characters to exist in.
Drop the MP, stop re-inventing the combat, and put that time, money, and resources back into the story and the world building. If someone really cared about 'Bioware's Heart', that is the advice they would be offering.
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VanSinn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 22, 2017 19:54:15 GMT
Author said Fallout 4 and Skyrim had better side content than ME:A. Stopped reading. Same click-bait bullshit mentality.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 22, 2017 19:59:45 GMT
Right...
Well, I'm not a fan of Andromeda, but IMO Bethesda completely destroyed what Fallout used to be and I don't know if they've ever made a game with decent story.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Apr 22, 2017 19:59:55 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2017 20:00:17 GMT
Author said Fallout 4 and Skyrim had better side content than ME:A. Stopped reading. Same click-bait bullshit mentality. fun story. I did like some of the random encounters in FO 4. But as far as it goes? Yeah The world was...empty.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 22, 2017 20:02:56 GMT
Author said Fallout 4 and Skyrim had better side content than ME:A. Stopped reading. Same click-bait bullshit mentality. fun story. I did like some of the random encounters in FO 4. But as far as it goes? Yeah The world was...empty. The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2017 20:06:15 GMT
fun story. I did like some of the random encounters in FO 4. But as far as it goes? Yeah The world was...empty. The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own. exactly. I like when my RPGs are collaborations between me and the devs. Bethesda games have always been sort of 'ok go out and forge your own story...oh you have to do your own patching and improvements to the game cause we can't be arsed. Have fun consumer it's all about you!'
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 20:09:00 GMT
Right... Well, I'm not a fan of Andromeda, but IMO Bethesda completely destroyed what Fallout used to be and I don't know if they've ever made a game with decent story. Morrowind had an ok story, but the player input in the world was fairly limited in terms of dialogue. It did have more choices however. I feel like Bethesda are great at giving the player a playground to make stories in, and player choice is always at the forefront. Issues are that dialogue is lacking. They tried to solve this in Fallout 4 in the most stupid way possible, but they did actually improve on some player choice features, mainly companions. On topic - I don't believe lost its heart, i think they lost their way and they have to find a new approach under the thumb of EA. I still have faith in them, and i am very confident in Dragon Age 4.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 22, 2017 20:11:27 GMT
fun story. I did like some of the random encounters in FO 4. But as far as it goes? Yeah The world was...empty. The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own. The big difference is Bethesda finally made competent characters and story with fallout 4. It's cliche, but compared to fallout 3 it was a breath of fresh air. That does carry 4 in a lot of ways. It's the 3rd best fallout game due to that in my opinion at least, behind fallout 2 and new vegas
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2017 20:13:04 GMT
The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own. exactly. I like when my RPGs are collaborations between me and the devs. Bethesda games have always been sort of 'ok go out and forge your own story...oh you have to do your own patching and improvements to the game cause we can't be arsed. Have fun consumer it's all about you!' The thing is, Bioware hasn't let players "tell their own stories" since the days of Neverwinter Nights. So there goes the single biggest benefit of a Skyrim-style open world.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 22, 2017 20:13:32 GMT
The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own. The big difference is Bethesda finally made competent characters and story with fallout 4. It's cliche, but compared to fallout 3 it was severely lacking. Thay does carry 4. It's the 3rd best fallout game due to that in my opinion at least, behind fallout 2 and new vegas I will mostly agree. Fallout 4's main story wasn't BAD, per se, but very trite and cliche. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is high praise for Bethesda games. ( Remember, New Vegas wasn't Bethesda. )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 20:13:34 GMT
The world itself was nice, but as you say, mostly empty. Skyrim the world WAS the main draw. The characters/story/quests? Not really more than motivation to go out and see what's on the other side of that hill. Both good games if you self motivate and create your own story, but better side content than ME:A? And lumping those two games in with TW3? Yeah, I see no reason to trust his judgement over my own. The big difference is Bethesda finally made competent characters and story with fallout 4. It's cliche, but compared to fallout 3 it was a breath of fresh air. That does carry 4 in a lot of ways. It's the 3rd best fallout game due to that in my opinion at least, behind fallout 2 and new vegas That is where i would rank it aswell. Way better than Fallout 3, so they did improve on that, but sadly lacking compared to New Vegas.
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 22, 2017 20:14:16 GMT
Bioware hasn't lost anything. They've been forced to do things that they've never specialized in and have been forced to prioritize nonsense that shouldn't be prioritized in an RPG.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 22, 2017 20:15:48 GMT
New Vegas is still the best fallout game ever made, I'd argue, because it blended new mechanics with old school role playing.
Andromeda is a mixed bag but it does offer a glimpse at more abstract rp mechanics done right. It is the first mass effect game since 1 to feel like a rpg mechanically. They need to improve on the rest now.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2017 20:18:38 GMT
exactly. I like when my RPGs are collaborations between me and the devs. Bethesda games have always been sort of 'ok go out and forge your own story...oh you have to do your own patching and improvements to the game cause we can't be arsed. Have fun consumer it's all about you!' The thing is, Bioware hasn't let players "tell their own stories" since the days of Neverwinter Nights. So there goes the single biggest benefit of a Skyrim-style open world. i suppose. But again to me RPGs have never been about telling my own story but the story of my character that's what i mean by collaboration. And every BW game has let me do that I've ever played.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 22, 2017 20:21:36 GMT
The thing is, Bioware hasn't let players "tell their own stories" since the days of Neverwinter Nights. So there goes the single biggest benefit of a Skyrim-style open world. i suppose. But again to me RPGs have never been about telling my own story but the story of my character that's what i mean by collaboration. And every BW game has let me do that I've ever played. I agree. It's always following a module basically. Wit some freedom in the mix to make it feel like your own.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2017 20:22:07 GMT
The thing is, Bioware hasn't let players "tell their own stories" since the days of Neverwinter Nights. So there goes the single biggest benefit of a Skyrim-style open world. i suppose. But again to me RPGs have never been about telling my own story but the story of my character that's what i mean by collaboration. And every BW game has let me do that I've ever played. I can think of a few where that really didn't work out...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 22, 2017 20:23:03 GMT
i suppose. But again to me RPGs have never been about telling my own story but the story of my character that's what i mean by collaboration. And every BW game has let me do that I've ever played. I can think of a few where that really didn't work out... We will NOT discuss ME2 and ME3 here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 20:23:49 GMT
I love how we turned this into a Fallout discussion! You guys are great, keep it up!
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2017 20:24:01 GMT
i suppose. But again to me RPGs have never been about telling my own story but the story of my character that's what i mean by collaboration. And every BW game has let me do that I've ever played. I can think of a few where that really didn't work out... well yeah ME 3 is probably the least RPG bio has ever done. But again compared to other games on the market.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 22, 2017 20:24:10 GMT
I read through half it, so that is some credit at least to me. Normally I just skip it. He sounds like a typical hater to me just because he doesn't like open world games. The combat is also fine and not shallow. That is where I left off since at that point anything else he would say is irrelevant.
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 22, 2017 20:26:00 GMT
Stopped reading at Fallout 4 praise. If VG247 wants in on "2nd batch of negative reviews for Bioware because bandwagoning" trend, they need to avoid picking one of the worst comparsion examples possible.
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Post by Laughing_Crow on Apr 22, 2017 20:26:32 GMT
I do wonder how these various opinions may shift when we find out exactly what BioWare Edmonton has been working on for the last 5 or 6 years. Aside from something new to criticize
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2017 20:27:52 GMT
I can think of a few where that really didn't work out... We will NOT discuss ME2 and ME3 here. Wasn't going to. Discussing Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and The WItcher in a Mass Effect forum is SO much better.
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