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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 16:50:04 GMT
They didn't rewrite anything. From ME1 we know that mostly it's just male Krogan that leave Tuchanka and that they leave to become Mercs, which is why we see just see male Warriors. In ME2 we learn the following things about the Krogan: Multiple Krogan talk about how each Krogan clan has their own culture & society, so not all Krogan clans are the same. This means that we can't take everything we've seen about the Krogan in general and apply it to all clans There are such a thing as Krogan scientists and engineers Women have their own clan structure that is viewed as equal to the male clan structure (Wrex says he can hardly do anything without the approval of the female clan leader) In ME3 we learn that Krogan seem to have no issue with following a woman, given how Wrex experiences no blow back when choosing to share leadership with Eve. All MEA does is expand what we already know about Krogan and Clan Nakmor. There were also a couple of krogan warriors in Tuchanka talking about visiting the female clan, and one in particular believed that one of the youngsters was his - or wanted to believe it. He wanted more visitation, wanted to spend more time with "his" kid. It sure sounded to me like at least some of the krogan would have liked to live in family units, instead of the separate clans. Eve explains how the genophage impacted their culture and that the cure should help to restore balance. What we see in MEA is pretty much what I would expect a pre-genophage or post-genophage krogan culture to be. Some of ME3's post-game slides show krogan families along with architects and engineers planning their rebuilding. What truly flies in the face of what we've known of krogan culture is the revelation that Drack actually raised Kesh, apparently from infancy. Yet Drack is one of the most popular characters.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 28, 2017 16:56:54 GMT
What truly flies in the face of what we've known of krogan culture is the revelation that Drack actually raised Kesh, apparently from infancy. Yet Drack is one of the most popular characters. I don't quite remember all the details of the conversation you have with him about this in the Tempest sickbay but from what I understood, this was a pretty special case and he acknowladged that it was not something that would usually happen.
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Post by luke on Apr 28, 2017 16:57:11 GMT
I don't see how their lore was rewritten at all.
We know that Krogan's aren't a patriarchal society, things are fairly even between the sexes. One of the great warlords, Shiagur, was a female, and we see Eve can handle herself and lead confidently in ME3.
The only reason female krogan were separated and protected was because of the genophage. However, that isn't anywhere near as much of a problem since birthrates have increased from 0.001% to 4%, which is enormous. As Krogan reproduce so quickly, a 25-50% birthrate is probably all that's needed to rival other MW species. So we can see that the Krogan aren't really on the edge of extinction anymore.
As for their culture, clan Nakmor wanted a fresh start in Andromeda free of prejudice and the harmful cultural influences the Krogan experience in the MW. They experienced a culture shift so that they can rebuild their society to what it once was, pre-nukes.
It's a natural development.
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 28, 2017 17:22:01 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the Krogan in Andromeda come from a single clan?
Hardly all of Krogan society regardless, since the vast majority of them stayed in the Milky Way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 17:25:09 GMT
What truly flies in the face of what we've known of krogan culture is the revelation that Drack actually raised Kesh, apparently from infancy. Yet Drack is one of the most popular characters. I don't quite remember all the details of the conversation you have with him about this in the Tempest sickbay but from what I understood, this was a pretty special case and he acknowladged that it was not something that would usually happen. He tells the story when he's getting a checkup from Lexi, and it's revealed that he's lost a lot of redundant organs and has some prosthetics. Apparently, he had a lot of problems adapting to them, and it was a really dark time in his life - it sounds like he was ready to give up when Kesh was placed in his arms. The point is that Drack has had quite a different life story than many other krogan, but people don't seem to take issue with that. It's also worth noting that most of what we know about krogan culture from MET was centered on clan Urdnot, and Wrex tells us that each clan has its own unique traditions. I found reading the terminals around the Eladaan colony to be pretty enlightening and entertaining. Some of the adjustments they're going through - learning how to court, new father's groups, etc. - really illustrate a people going through some cultural shifts. The only reason female krogan were separated and protected was because of the genophage. However, that isn't anywhere near as much of a problem since birthrates have increased from 0.001% to 4%, which is enormous. As Krogan reproduce so quickly, a 25-50% birthrate is probably all that's needed to rival other MW species. So we can see that the Krogan aren't really on the edge of extinction anymore. Protected or fought over like pawns? Eve seems to think it's more of the latter. In any case, the genophage actually adjusted their viable fertility rate to a level designed to maintain their current population. Any increase in viability should allow their numbers to grow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the Krogan in Andromeda come from a single clan? Hardly all of Krogan society regardless, since the vast majority of them stayed in the Milky Way. They're mostly Nakmor, but I did talk to one Urdnot down at the bar, in the area where Morda hangs out.
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Post by kino on Apr 28, 2017 17:26:08 GMT
They didn't rewrite anything. From ME1 we know that mostly it's just male Krogan that leave Tuchanka and that they leave to become Mercs, which is why we see just see male Warriors. In ME2 we learn the following things about the Krogan: Multiple Krogan talk about how each Krogan clan has their own culture & society, so not all Krogan clans are the same. This means that we can't take everything we've seen about the Krogan in general and apply it to all clans There are such a thing as Krogan scientists and engineers Women have their own clan structure that is viewed as equal to the male clan structure (Wrex says he can hardly do anything without the approval of the female clan leader) In ME3 we learn that Krogan seem to have no issue with following a woman, given how Wrex experiences no blow back when choosing to share leadership with Eve. All MEA does is expand what we already know about Krogan and Clan Nakmor. Excellent synopsis. I'd also add Warlord Shiagur to that list as well.
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Post by luke on Apr 28, 2017 17:28:40 GMT
The only reason female krogan were separated and protected was because of the genophage. However, that isn't anywhere near as much of a problem since birthrates have increased from 0.001% to 4%, which is enormous. As Krogan reproduce so quickly, a 25-50% birthrate is probably all that's needed to rival other MW species. So we can see that the Krogan aren't really on the edge of extinction anymore. Protected or fought over like pawns? Eve seems to think it's more of the latter. In any case, the genophage actually adjusted their viable fertility rate to a level designed to maintain their current population. Any increase in viability should allow their numbers to grow. That's a fair point. If that really is the case then there's no reason female Krogan shouldn't be fighting, especially when birthrates have increased exponentially as they have done.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 28, 2017 17:35:43 GMT
Not all humans are the same. We have many different cultures. This is something that always has bothered me about the alien races of Mass Effect. They're so one-dimensional. These Krogans who we see in Andromeda, could be from a different cultural background than the ones we met in the original trilogy (but I doubt that's the case, would be pretty good explanation though).
Someone said all the aliens act just like humans in MEA. I agree. Even the Angara. It's really a disappointment.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 28, 2017 18:30:15 GMT
Bio's done this in Dragon Age a lot. You get a little information about some culture or bit of history, only to find out later that jumping to big conclusions based on the little bit you knew took you completely off track.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 28, 2017 18:43:22 GMT
We've known since me 1 that this is how krogan society works. Its just the pressure of the genophage made the males overly protective. And the intiative promised to.mitigate its effects.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 28, 2017 18:59:04 GMT
BioWare forgot everything, or maybe they hired William C. Dietz as their lore consultant?
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 28, 2017 19:05:05 GMT
I don't quite remember all the details of the conversation you have with him about this in the Tempest sickbay but from what I understood, this was a pretty special case and he acknowladged that it was not something that would usually happen. He tells the story when he's getting a checkup from Lexi, and it's revealed that he's lost a lot of redundant organs and has some prosthetics. Apparently, he had a lot of problems adapting to them, and it was a really dark time in his life - it sounds like he was ready to give up when Kesh was placed in his arms. The point is that Drack has had quite a different life story than many other krogan, but people don't seem to take issue with that. It's also worth noting that most of what we know about krogan culture from MET was centered on clan Urdnot, and Wrex tells us that each clan has its own unique traditions. Yea, that's how I remember it. But why would people take issue? Drack may have had an unusual life story but being the oldest Krogan around, he seems to have a special place in the colony now as well. So that all adds up, as far as I can see. Yea, they were nice (I think I mentioned them above as well). My favorites were the Krogan safety tips. Not that enlightening but they here hilarious.
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Post by derrame on Apr 28, 2017 19:18:35 GMT
before MEA, the male krogans were warriors and the female krogans stay at home, but now Bioware wanted to please the feminazis, so now there are females korgans warriors and rulers
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 19:35:07 GMT
Yea, that's how I remember it. But why would people take issue? Drack may have had an unusual life story but being the oldest Krogan around, he seems to have a special place in the colony now as well. So that all adds up, as far as I can see. Because it's a departure from typical expectations of male krogan warriors? Because children were raised by female clans in MET, and didn't seem to have much exposure to adult males during their upbringing? The way it's presented in-game, it almost sounds like Grandpa Drack became Kesh's primary caretaker. Whether it actually went down that way is unknown, but Drack did say that he raised her - whatever that means. I literally lol'ed at some of them. They sure sound to me like the krogan we've always known.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 28, 2017 19:58:17 GMT
Yea, that's how I remember it. But why would people take issue? Drack may have had an unusual life story but being the oldest Krogan around, he seems to have a special place in the colony now as well. So that all adds up, as far as I can see. Because it's a departure from typical expectations of male krogan warriors? Because children were raised by female clans in MET, and didn't seem to have much exposure to adult males during their upbringing? The way it's presented in-game, it almost sounds like Grandpa Drack became Kesh's primary caretaker. Whether it actually went down that way is unknown, but Drack did say that he raised her - whatever that means. Well yes but Kesh was a special case anyway, right? Drack mentions that she was an outcast of sorts IIRC and that a shaman told him either he takes care of her or she'll basically get dumped. So it wasn't a normal upbringing anyway. We don't really know how often something like this used to happen. Maybe it's rare but still an established thing, who knows? As far as I know, we also don't know how old Kesh is exactly. We do know that she was already born with the genophage, so after the Krogan rebellions but we don't really know how much after (I may be wrong on this, maybe we do know and I missed it). If it was fairly shortly after the genphage, maybe the isolation of the females and that whole segregated upbringing wasn't as well established at the time. So, I'd say there is plenty of wiggle room as to why people don't make a big deal out of it. And even if it was a big deal, IIRC, in the game, we never really see much interaction between Kesh, Drack and any other Krogan aside from Vorn, so with all the other stuff going on, maybe it's just that no one had the time to reason to bring it up in a conversation where Ryder was present.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 28, 2017 20:22:44 GMT
before MEA, the male krogans were warriors and the female krogans stay at home, but now Bioware wanted to please the feminazis, so now there are females korgans warriors and rulers 1. Hainly Abrams and Biowares pathetic groveling apology 2. Several males NPCs with female voice acting; Angaran guard on Voeld guarding the ice storage, Angaran resistance fighter trainer on Aya, Male Turian bodyguard to the Warden on Kadara. 3. The fact that Bioware specifically downgraded Sara Ryder in appearance and didn't touch Male Ryder in comparison to the model likeness used...as well as the female human face models in general being hit with the ugly stick because of "representation" ...yeah. I wouldn't put it past them that this was a driving reason behind this particular portrayal of Krogan females in this game. It would have been more acceptable if Bioware actually showed great care in preserving lore established in MET, but overall that does not seem to be the case so this sticks out way more as a result.
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Post by sevalaricgirl on Apr 28, 2017 22:32:53 GMT
And the female Krogan we do see in ME3 bears significant enough authority to put an end to Krogan bickering for when it counts. Yep, watch how fast they shut the hell up when she comes into the room and tells them to shut the hell up. Now that is Mass Effect. I just can't get into MEA.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 28, 2017 22:39:59 GMT
The female Krogan are hilarious tbh. Morda and Kesh trying to be intimidating with voices like that had me in stitches.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 28, 2017 23:02:50 GMT
before MEA, the male krogans were warriors and the female krogans stay at home, but now Bioware wanted to please the feminazis, so now there are females korgans warriors and rulers Hoping you're just trolling. Ugh.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 28, 2017 23:37:28 GMT
before MEA, the male krogans were warriors and the female krogans stay at home, but now Bioware wanted to please the feminazis, so now there are females korgans warriors and rulers Hoping you're just trolling. Ugh. Or someone who never bothered to play MET outside of the straight male renegade path and never bothered to listen too or read the codex and actually learn things, like the fact that female krogan were warlords and warriors before, during, and after the events of MET. Or just another loser man baby who is pissed because he can't get laid.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 29, 2017 0:02:12 GMT
Hoping you're just trolling. Ugh. Or someone who never bothered to play MET outside of the straight male renegade path and never bothered to listen too or read the codex and actually learn things, like the fact that female krogan were warlords and warriors before, during, and after the events of MET. Or just another loser man baby who is pissed because he can't get laid. To be fair it is hard to hear when one's head is stuck so far up one's ass.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 29, 2017 0:52:11 GMT
Actaully the female krogan have an equal say and possibly more then the male krogan do. But they are more protected and stayed on their homeworld. That's not really possible when you are going to another galaxy. But the real question people could ask is why they were both in the same clan like they were. Most seperate clans into male and female. But again they had to change things because they were leaving their galaxy
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Post by henkiedepost on Apr 29, 2017 0:59:26 GMT
They basically all seem like "egalitarian" humans now. Since when were Krogan females and males all warriors and everything in between, on equal footing? How has this been explained lore-wise? And here I am as a Dutch person, just wondering how the hell OP's name got through the moderator check when signing up.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 29, 2017 1:02:39 GMT
Watching bags full of douchebags defend Bio over this makes me question if youd enjoy a complimentary bowel scraping with your next pre order.
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Post by kino on Apr 29, 2017 1:04:12 GMT
before MEA, the male krogans were warriors and the female krogans stay at home, but now Bioware wanted to please the feminazis, so now there are females korgans warriors and rulers hah. Warlord Shiagur. Female Krogan warlord and a commonly mentioned Krogan historical figure from the Krogan Rebellion in the trilogy...which is before MEA.
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