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Post by beholderess on May 6, 2017 18:13:16 GMT
Sloane, unfortunately. I wish I could go with Reyes instead, but in games I tend to suffer from Chronic Hero Syndrome and simply cannot stand by and allow a person to be sniped, even if it is good for everyone. If there was any other way to give Kadara to Reyes instead, I would do it. I can. Same thing happened to Knight. In fact, the only reason I have tried to save her is for the sake of her son. Besides, my Ryder is pretty handy with a sniper rifle himself. Not much difference that I can see, particularly when the shot to the head is the beginning of the fight against some Outcasts, Collective or Roekaar. I play a sniper myself, so it's not that I have much problem with sniping itself. If I was just walking around Kadara, minding my own business, and someone decided to shoot Sloane, I probably wouldn't interfere. But in that quest Sloane specifically takes Ryder along so that they would watch her back - why she thought it was a good idea is beyond me, but that's what the arrangement was. And so watch her back I will
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Post by dmc1001 on May 6, 2017 18:16:44 GMT
I can. Same thing happened to Knight. In fact, the only reason I have tried to save her is for the sake of her son. Besides, my Ryder is pretty handy with a sniper rifle himself. Not much difference that I can see, particularly when the shot to the head is the beginning of the fight against some Outcasts, Collective or Roekaar. I play a sniper myself, so it's not that I have much problem with sniping itself. If I was just walking around Kadara, minding my own business, and someone decided to shoot Sloane, I probably wouldn't interfere. But in that quest Sloane specifically takes Ryder along so that they would watch her back - why she thought it was a good idea is beyond me, but that's what the arrangement was. And so watch her back I will Yeah, valid. Like you said, it makes no sense that she would ask you given that you're at best on "not attacking each other" terms and at worst entirely antagonistic.
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Post by beholderess on May 6, 2017 18:24:08 GMT
Yes, I have no idea why she would do it in the first place - and why do you have to go along, without saying "WTF, we kind of hate each other and I am not a neutral party"
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Post by orchid on May 6, 2017 18:25:49 GMT
But in that quest Sloane specifically takes Ryder along so that they would watch her back - why she thought it was a good idea is beyond me, but that's what the arrangement was. And so watch her back I will I'd buy this if there was a choice not to join her. It's good that we get to choose between Reyes and Sloane at all, but even so the initial choice to "back her" is forced upon us. It's not like Sloane hired Ryder as a bodyguard either, so I don't think Sloane expected Ryder to be honor-bound to her to perpetuity either.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 6, 2017 18:26:29 GMT
Yes, I have no idea why she would do it in the first place - and why do you have to go along, without saying "WTF, we kind of hate each other and I am not a neutral party" Yeah, a deal should have been made right then and there. "I'll watch your back and in exchange you allow me to set up an outpost." That would have been better than her charging you to have an outpost, something that could only help Kadara Port thrive regardless.
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Post by niniel on May 6, 2017 18:47:15 GMT
Sloane. Only because I want to punch Reyes every time he opens his mouth.
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Post by theratpack55 on May 6, 2017 19:59:33 GMT
Reyes, because I honestly can't justify backing Sloane in any logical way. I wish I could, cause I like to different things on different playthroughs, but there really doesn't seem to be any way to do it here.
Sloane is clearly bent on exile independence on Kadara, has bad relations with the angara, outright threatens your potential outpost efforts, and then suddenly needs your help in settling a power play issue and doesn't take no for an answer. That's... frankly idiotic of her. Meanwhile Reyes cosies up to you from the start, is obviously happy to work with the AI and work out a mutually beneficial deal, is already working with the angaran resistance and sets up an angaran proxy when he takes power that further strengthens AI/angara relations. Also you can bang him. There are literally no downsides to siding with him, as opposed to siding with Sloane which gains you a tenuous alliance with an unstable drug dealer with a weak hold on the area. I really wish BW made this into an ambiguous situation, but the way it is now I'm just like "why would I ever support her..?".
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 23:37:02 GMT
Reyes, because I honestly can't justify backing Sloane in any logical way. I wish I could, cause I like to different things on different playthroughs, but there really doesn't seem to be any way to do it here. If you really want to have a reason to side with Sloane for a change on a new playthrough, I would suggest doing Kadara after the main mission. Cause Sloane shows up to help out on Meridian anyway. Maybe feeling you owe her one will be enough to save her.
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 7, 2017 6:30:08 GMT
There's also the fact that, however she got the position, Sloane is the accepted leader on Kadara - eliminating her solely in the name of putting someone you personally are more comfortable dealing with is easily a line to cross, because it's basically making the government you the Pathfinder want, just because you can. It's not quite playing god, but it's effectively saying that because someone is an inconvenience to you, you're going to remove them by any means necessary, and gee, doesn't that sound a lot like something Sloane Kelly would have done too?
Or it's in the name of trying to build bridges between the Exiles and the Initiative - Sloane is their leader, if you can make peace with her, maybe you can do something about this gulf between the Exiles and the Initiative that exiled them. I think there are ways to justify siding with Sloane, even if you think that Reyes is the lesser evil between the two of them.
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Post by orchid on May 7, 2017 6:48:30 GMT
One thing to consider is that once the Initiative outpost is build, their influence and power will only grow. Activate the vault and people have even less reason to care about the old Port. If Ryder has accepting attitude towards exiles, there's good chance for rehabilitation into the Initiative for those not big into being outlaws. Initiative tech is also superior. Will Kadara be really ruled by Outcasts or the Collective in the end? Maybe they keep the Port, but they can't afford to lord it over the Initiative.
I don't know about Sloane, but I believe Reyes understands this and wants to side with the inevitable winners. If you let Sloane die, Reyes mails Ryder about him making sure that Kadara "remains ours" while Ryder is doing his space hero thing.
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Post by sageoflife on May 7, 2017 10:29:54 GMT
I don't trust either of them further than I can non-biotically throw them, but at least Reyes shows himself to be less likely to put his grudges ahead of doing what's practical. I'm fully prepared to take him out later if he makes himself a problem.
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Post by fialka on May 7, 2017 14:07:46 GMT
There's also the fact that, however she got the position, Sloane is the accepted leader on Kadara - eliminating her solely in the name of putting someone you personally are more comfortable dealing with is easily a line to cross, because it's basically making the government you the Pathfinder want, just because you can. It's not quite playing god, but it's effectively saying that because someone is an inconvenience to you, you're going to remove them by any means necessary, and gee, doesn't that sound a lot like something Sloane Kelly would have done too? Or it's in the name of trying to build bridges between the Exiles and the Initiative - Sloane is their leader, if you can make peace with her, maybe you can do something about this gulf between the Exiles and the Initiative that exiled them. I think there are ways to justify siding with Sloane, even if you think that Reyes is the lesser evil between the two of them. She's only the 'accepted' leader because she put herself in charge. In the book it pretty much goes like this: she basically tells the exiles "do what I say or else" while literally choking someone to death in front of them. And this was after they all left. It's not like everyone came together and voted or anything. Nor is she going to be holding elections anytime soon. And if you talk to Kadara's people and listen to their ambient dialogue, many are unhappy with her leadership. That's pretty much what the Collective is... a group of people working together to replace her. Something they'd worked towards and would've succeeded in doing on their own had Sloane not just so happened to ask us to back her up. Which gives us the opportunity to interfere. One could just as easily make an argument to the contrary. Standing aside to let her die is simply allowing existing events to run their course. Who are we to stop it? Especially when Sloane didn't even give us the option to say we don't want to come along. And the game doesn't give us the option to not show up. Sure, Reyes used us to clear the Collective's name of those murders they were being blamed for, but I suspect they had enough support even without that. We just helped paved the way for a smoother transition after they took over. And since we did that by revealing the truth, and preventing more victims, I'm not too bothered by being 'used.' Even if I didn't support the Collective, I would've put a stop to it, and not allowed someone else to take the fall.
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Post by starlord on May 7, 2017 19:02:13 GMT
I chose Reyes because I was a fan of his in the 30 seconds he opened his mouth in the gameplay trailer. I also like the gameplay and narrative implications of dating him- if they continue to write him morally gray- some shit is about to go down and me and my romanced Ryder are like: No matter what though, I think my Ryder has a blindspot for Reyes and will ultimately defy Initiative goals to keep him happy... This is why I am so excited to see what's coming. I love Reyes and Ryder so much.
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Post by orchid on May 7, 2017 19:56:04 GMT
No matter what though, I think my Ryder has a blindspot for Reyes and will ultimately defy Initiative goals to keep him happy... This is why I am so excited to see what's coming. I love Reyes and Ryder so much. Ooh, I like that plan. I can see my Ryder starting to bend more and more rules, partly by bad influence like Reyes ( ), but he's also keen on strong, centralized Nexus hopefully rivaling the Angaran government itself... There could be some interesting conflicts of interests there.
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Post by starlord on May 7, 2017 20:15:57 GMT
No matter what though, I think my Ryder has a blindspot for Reyes and will ultimately defy Initiative goals to keep him happy... This is why I am so excited to see what's coming. I love Reyes and Ryder so much. Ooh, I like that plan. I can see my Ryder starting to bend more and more rules, partly by bad influence like Reyes ( ), but he's also keen on strong, centralized Nexus hopefully rivaling the Angaran government itself... There could be some interesting conflicts of interests there. Exactly!!! It'll be awesome, although I hope that we are still able to stay with him no matter what the consequences are of doing so. I think it would be really funny if something like this happened. Tann: "Ryder, you can't be continuing this partnership with Reyes Vidal, we are causing a lot of friction in the Nexus and even on Aya! This needs to stop now!" Ryder: *high pitched rushed response* "But, Daddy: I love him!" Liam *in between wheezes*: " you did not just fucking say that." I read a really interesting post on Tumblr, I believe? (Forgive me if I am incorrect and it was a bsn post.) Where someone said that Ryder dating an exile and a smuggler would cause a lot of controversy, so it would have to be on the DL. They said that this is why Reyes does the sneaky wink and asks for a closet rendezvous. However, they brought up that someone could get suspicious and look into Ryder's relationship which could give Reyes a heart attack in the slim chance they might uncover his Charlatan activity. (Seriously who wrote this post because it's a bomb ass idea and they deserve credit.) I know this notion might be controversial, but I'd love for Reyes to be super morally gray, but also a smidge like Garrus in upcoming dlc and sequels- secret adventures to places you shouldn't be heading off to, dances in night clubs, late night drinking sessions, "I'm so much better than you in combat teasing," dorky love talks, helping him snipe enemies, combat and leadership advice,(barely covering the obvious fact that he cares so much about you and wants you to be safe), and, I'd love him to save our asses again just once, and have an epic swagger while doing so. Also can we get a Wrex/Vega, rivalry with Reyes because that would be sick.
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Post by beholderess on May 7, 2017 22:09:41 GMT
Anyway, I think that Reyes is the canon choice no matter what we do, and he will be in charge by the next game, because Reyes cannot be killed while Sloane can.
But yes, after the outpost is there, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. If, say, Sloane kicks somebody out for not paying her fees and they aren't a cannibalistic murderer otherwise, I am sure that strings can be pulled and they'd be welcome to join the outpost instead.
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Post by starlord on May 7, 2017 22:23:39 GMT
Anyway, I think that Reyes is the canon choice no matter what we do, and he will be in charge by the next game, because Reyes cannot be killed while Sloane can. But yes, after the outpost is there, I don't think that any of that matters in the grand scheme of things. If, say, Sloane kicks somebody out for not paying her fees and they aren't a cannibalistic murderer otherwise, I am sure that strings can be pulled and they'd be welcome to join the outpost instead. That could totally happen, although I would also not be surprised if they did something like. You picked Sloane: Collective members mobilize in the Badlands to begin an assault on Kadara Port. Reyes is the ring leader and is all like You picked Reyes and Didn't Kill Kaetus: Kaetus escapes and mobilizes Outcast members to begin an assault on Kadara Port You Picked Reyes and Kaetus is Dead: Kaetus's twin brother with a mustache Saetus is getting revenge on the Collective by beginning an assault on Kadara Port.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 8, 2017 0:36:03 GMT
Anyway, I think that Reyes is the canon choice no matter what we do, and he will be in charge by the next game, because Reyes cannot be killed while Sloane can. I hope they don't force a canon choice. Or if there is a canon choice, it affects everyone equally like neither Sloane or Reyes are in charge.
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Post by peekaboo on May 8, 2017 1:02:17 GMT
Anyway, I think that Reyes is the canon choice no matter what we do, and he will be in charge by the next game, because Reyes cannot be killed while Sloane can. I hope they don't force a canon choice. Or if there is a canon choice, it affects everyone equally like neither Sloane or Reyes are in charge. I honestly see no reason why Sloane would still be in charge. Her own people are turning against her. You can't fix stupid. If Reyes will be canon you probably still get the option to shoot him, should you not like how he runs things, so everyone's happy. (But, please Bioware, please don't make me HAVE to shoot him, I...eh...MY RYDER would be utterly devastated.)
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Post by Warrior DM on May 8, 2017 1:23:21 GMT
I can't trust a word that Reyes has said. The encounters with him seemed more like a persona than anything else, and led me to believe that he is just a con-artist looking out for himself. Even so, I didn't shoot at Reyes because I'd like to believe that at least part of him was a genuine friend.
Sloane Kelly's methods are harsh, but I expect her to be straight forward with everything she does. Kelly also has the capacity to change, and will lighten up after you save her life. I think she'd be a more reliable ally for the long term.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 8, 2017 1:38:55 GMT
I hope they don't force a canon choice. Or if there is a canon choice, it affects everyone equally like neither Sloane or Reyes are in charge. I honestly see no reason why Sloane would still be in charge. Her own people are turning against her. You can't fix stupid. If Reyes will be canon you probably still get the option to shoot him, should you not like how he runs things, so everyone's happy. (But, please Bioware, please don't make me HAVE to shoot him, I...eh...MY RYDER would be utterly devastated.) Standoff like with Ash/Kaidan?
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Post by caladrius on May 8, 2017 1:50:37 GMT
There's also the fact that, however she got the position, Sloane is the accepted leader on Kadara - eliminating her solely in the name of putting someone you personally are more comfortable dealing with is easily a line to cross, because it's basically making the government you the Pathfinder want, just because you can. It's not quite playing god, but it's effectively saying that because someone is an inconvenience to you, you're going to remove them by any means necessary, and gee, doesn't that sound a lot like something Sloane Kelly would have done too? Or it's in the name of trying to build bridges between the Exiles and the Initiative - Sloane is their leader, if you can make peace with her, maybe you can do something about this gulf between the Exiles and the Initiative that exiled them. I think there are ways to justify siding with Sloane, even if you think that Reyes is the lesser evil between the two of them. I don't think this is necessarily as relevant because there's no real evidence that the majority of people in Kadara actually want Sloane as a leader. You hear from people again and again that she's not well liked at all. She only keeps control of Kadara by harsh use of force. The average Exile hates her and probably wouldn't have a great impression of you for being on page with her. Appealing to essentially a brutal dictator isn't going to win the hearts of the people. Not sure if that changes substantially with Reyes, but it definitely doesn't seem to get any worse. That isn't to mention, it's not just the Exiles, but the Angara to consider. The Angara see Sloane as an invader that took something they built by force, not a "liberator", as she likes to think. The Angara are happier in Kadara with Sloane gone. So, basically, I don't think Sloane being a leader by only force and not by the support of the people is really a positive for you to maintain.
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Post by peekaboo on May 8, 2017 3:07:13 GMT
I honestly see no reason why Sloane would still be in charge. Her own people are turning against her. You can't fix stupid. If Reyes will be canon you probably still get the option to shoot him, should you not like how he runs things, so everyone's happy. (But, please Bioware, please don't make me HAVE to shoot him, I...eh...MY RYDER would be utterly devastated.) Standoff like with Ash/Kaidan? I am sure he will have some shady greyish business you may or may not approve of again, so there should be ample opportunity. I'll be just happy if they bring Reyes back in some way and don't wreck the character... [off-topic-ish rant /on]: he kinda reminds me of game of throne's littlefinger...a genius in the books, a complete idiot in the tv show. in the books he is this friendly face character that noone sees a threat in because of his low birth and amiableness ("third-rate-smuggler") and because he provides financing and whatever they wish for for the high lords (accomplished smuggler). but in the background he pulls the strings by having everyone in his pockets and secretly and ambitiously plots to win the game. his relationship with sansa is also similar to ryder: on the one hand he uses her due to her status, on the other he genuinely cares for and helps her. alas, in the tv show he is an utter idiot who makes stupid rash decisions and loses sansas trust by "selling" her to a sadist. it is a shame, really. so...PLEASE KEEP HIM SMART AND BRING HIM BACK, BIOWARE. HE IS GREAT. [off-topic-ish rant /off]
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Post by dgcatanisiri on May 8, 2017 5:11:09 GMT
Anyway, I think that Reyes is the canon choice no matter what we do, and he will be in charge by the next game, because Reyes cannot be killed while Sloane can. I hope they don't force a canon choice. Or if there is a canon choice, it affects everyone equally like neither Sloane or Reyes are in charge. My guess is that we'll get an Exiles/Kadara focused DLC with Reyes possibly even as a companion, given that he'll survive either way the situation resolves. Given everything, seeing them bring in Reyes for a DLC would make a lot of sense, given that there are people calling for more time with him, and I honestly think the Exiles amount to a lingering plot thread that should be addressed sooner rather than later, given that the Initiative settles on Kadara, right alongside them. So that'll offer some new variables into the default state of later games.
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Zitrus
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 202 Likes: 426
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Zitrus
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May 2017
zitrus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Zitrus on May 8, 2017 8:55:03 GMT
I chose Reyes on my first playthrough. I think he handles the port business better and also has better relationships with the angara and the Initiative, even if he rules from the shadows and has a front, which could lead to problems later. He also comes across as more likeable, which is not the defining factor but it is one nonetheless. Sloane is rather rude. I know she has her reasons and comes around a bit when you save her and it is not black and white.
People say the collective tortures their prisoners and are murderers. True and it is horrible, but so are Sloane and her gang. Her prisoners are also tortured and murdered. Check the terminal in the Outcast HQ. Vehn Terev was tortured quite a lot, it says he has a high pain tolerance. Lacerta killed himself before he was judged. He was likely tortured as well or would have been. The smuggler who did not pay the cut has 3 fingers broken as punishment. And then if they are killed, sometimes (?) their heads are put on display. I wouldn't want to live in a city where you see severed heads in the streets.
It can also be seen as indirect murder when people who don't pay are thrown into the badlands. The blonde Outcast who you encounter twice in the beginning of Kadara even says so. There is aggressive wildlife, toxic water and people who kill you for the clothes on your back. Not to mention the cannibals and leftover kett.
Then there is what Dr. Nakamoto tells you if you ask him about the Outcasts. He is not a fan of either group and says his working conditions under Sloane were fine so I see his opinions as genuine. He says: "Outcast tactics are ruthless. Murder. Mutilation. Beatings. All daily occurence. I didn't sign up for that." And you see how the people are beaten if they don't pay. If you arrive one says they are not better than the Nexus and a krogan guard gets angry at that.
Oblivion was made for profit by Sloane. She tells you she satifies a demand with it. She surely uses part of the protection fees and trade cuts for protection and food and drinks for the citizens but she also uses them to make sure the Outcasts are well off. They are not a charity, Kaetus says so imself. The Collective make a very potent poison out of fungi for assasinations and do not stop the drug trade if you gave the formula to the asari. But they did not have oblivion made in the first place. Still, it's bad they don't shut it down. The asari is part of the Outcasts. They should track her down again and stop the drug production. However, in part it is Ryder's fault that it continues if they believe the lying asari.
Information from ambient dialogue. Two Collective agents on the stairs at the docks talk about stealing some crates meant for the outpost and the salarian says no, the Charlatan doesn't allow that and would notice it, even if the Initiative would not. The drunk woman at Kralla's complains that half her shipment was taken by the Collective as fee and calls them thieves. She's also been robbed 3 times since the Collective took over and says that would have never occured under Sloane. The asari at the mods merchant says the tax is higher with the Collective but the vendor is happy the protection money no longer has to be paid. Velonia on Elaaden is content with the taxes either way, no matter who rules, she says she makes good profit. The two angara and asari pirates in front of Kralla's talk about how scavengers wanted to raid the outpost and as a warning their faces were slashed ("the Charlatans smile"). The angara also says they should have put Sloane's head on a spike. But the asari says no, if they did that they might become like the Outcasts, the angara replies yes maybe. Some Outcast members are kinda unhappy about the outpost. Don't like to have playing neighbours now with Nexus folks. Sloane reinforces security to prevent more upstarts.
Sloane takes a cut from everything that comes through the port and aks for the protection fee on top. This applies to the outpost as well. The quarter master in Ditaeon is less happy with her. One crate is missing and if he wants it back he has to pay a "finder's fee". The Collective get everything he wants (plus whiskey for the mayor, lol everybody on this planet is into it) and want samples from the scientist who makes fertilizer.
No matter who you side with, everyone voices concern. Your crew is not sure Sloane will keep her part of the deal for long or if Reyes will lie again. Tate at the outpost is unsure if Sloane will be reliable after what happened on the Nexus and doesn't like to work with swindlers either.
The group that lost will always launch an attack on the outpost and will be repelled by the other.
Also interesting that both groups have mines and (stolen) surveillance satellites in other systems (Solminae, Anasa, Vaar).
They have their differences in running Kadara Port, even if the big stuff plays out the same (always an outpost, always help in the last mission etc.). Sloane's whole free drinks, food and hooking people on drugs (although people should know better by now not to touch that stuff, but producing it is still immoral) looks a bit like bread and circuses to me. I'll side with her in a later playthough to see what comes of it in a sequel/dlc but she is not my first pick. I don't like the protection money or exile, drug production, impaled heads, public beatings and rule through fear image she got going.
I have been wondering though if Reyes he will be able to keep his Charlaten identity a secret for long. There are quite a few people who know about it outside the Collective: Ryder's whole crew, Addison and if she knows, it is likely Tann, Kesh and Kandros do as well. All it takes is a someone listening in or the wrong word to the wrong person and he will be unmasked. Or the Nexus leadership could threaten him with it if they are unhappy with him? Plus, if you side against him everybody in Kadara Port talks about the fact that he is the Charlatan. So even if he comes back and tries to take over again as he mentions in his email to Ryder, he will be known and cannot rule from the shadows anymore. I wonder if he will be exposed in the future anyway, no matter who you backed.
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