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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 8, 2017 20:14:05 GMT
Talked to the slums guard again. Ryder: Is this still part of Kadara Port? Outcast Guard: You mean is it under Sloane's protection? No. The slums are for exiles who can't pay their protection fees. Ryder: Then why are you here? No offense. Outcast Guard: To keep the filth in the gutter. You'd be surprised how many people try to sneak up to the docks. I think you're right. He doesn't say they can't go back to the mountain if they ever have enough money again. So maybe they have that chance. Badlands is like prison without the right to come back, true. Okay, I thought so. I remember hearing the slums were like a compromise between paying the protection fees and being sent into the Badlands. That was the conversation. Thank you.
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Post by fialka on May 8, 2017 22:39:09 GMT
I agree in general that Reyes' position is risky, but not that risky. The Collective attacks are not in defiance of the Charlatan, the word just hasn't reached them. Clumsy way of explaining more enemy variety, of course, but then again Ryder needs to board the Tempest just to read a text message so I'll allow it. If Reyes didn't have even that amount of control over his people, he'd have way more severe problems than Sloane. The Warden's "oh shit" reaction to me reads not as them breaking rules, but that Ryder just wasn't supposed to see the beatings happen. This can be interpreted both ways probably. The torture den audio tape concludes with the operatives going to report to the Charlatan. With how tight reins Reyes is depicted as holding, it really unlikely that this elaborate, secretive house (so much like Reyes in character) and the operations taking place in there would've been conducted by rogue operatives. IMO there's no reason to believe that the Collective's worst deeds are done by disobeying members and that Reyes just wants to fight Sloane's oppression while making a little profit on the side. Frankly, if that turned out to be a case, I'd be disappointed. I'm waiting here for my renegade options, dammit. I think Keema might be it. She's there both under Sloane and Reyes, and is obviously power hungry. She's friendly with Reyes, but the theme is that nobody knows him except through business. Reyes would be a fool not to be on his guard, she's playing his own game. Not so much rogue operatives - just ones that bend the rules a bit. Reyes himself admits he's never been to that particular hideout, which I'm willing to believe since it'd be way risky for him to be seen openly dealing with the Collective. As of now, Reyes the third-rate smuggler isn't even a member. But if I recall what the warden there says is something along the lines of 'what the Charlatan doesn't know...' which implies they know they're doing something they shouldn't be. Of course, they're also told to be on their best behavior if the Pathfinder shows up (according to that datapad note), so they could just be covering for the Collective as a whole. As I said, Reyes' hands-off approach could well be by design. Plausible deniability and all that, if it gets out what the Collective's really been up to, the Charlatan's hands stay clean and he can continue to play the role of progressive liberator. As you say, it could be interpreted both ways. Personally, I prefer the idea that Reyes is a decent person. That he's at least being honest when he tells you he wants to be. Maybe not a good one necessarily, and that's alright and even what I prefer - but at least not the type to expressly condone torture. I guess we'll see in future games/DLC, provided we're given the opportunity to ask. I just think Reyes or Sloane not being in charge of Kadara would make sense for future content. I do think there's a reason Sloane can die where Reyes can't, so regardless of your choice we probably haven't seen the last of him. I keep coming back to this interview with Patrick Weekes where he talks about how they never take killing off a character lightly, because it so severely limits what capacity they can show up in later on. Which means if Sloane lives, she's probably not going to get much more than an extended cameo in future games. But I think having a third party be leader is more respectful of at least maintaining the illusion of player choice than having Reyes take over regardless. Keema would be good because both sides have met her and I think she's pretty inoffensive... even if you hate Reyes I think you could excuse her working with him for the Angara's sake. Though I supposed they could always make the distinction as to whether she's the 'true' ruler or not with a few lines of dialogue. Where if you chose Reyes, we have the situation as it is now, but if players chose Sloane, Keema betrayed her and took over on her own, cutting Reyes out. I guess it all depends on how a big a role they expect the leader of Kadara to play. If they're just going to sit in that chair and speak a few lines it might not matter and they could do both, but if they're actually involved in future missions and such, it might need to be the same NPC regardless.
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Star-Lord, man, legendary outlaw?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by starlord on May 8, 2017 23:56:54 GMT
I brought this up in the Reyes thread, but Reyes reminds me a lot of Minerva aka The Widow from Into the Badlands. She is kind of pissing me off right now, but I won't go into spoilery discussions just yet. What I will add is watch the show- if you like bloody, brutal violence, martial arts, and a Game of Thrones- like narrative. I love it so much. Basically, The Badlands is run by barons and each baron is more brutal than the next- the own slave workers (cogs), make opium, and oil, and basically be really shitty. The Widow is seen as a liberator- an ex-wife of a baron that she brutally murdered and took his land to do her version of good: she has an all female warrior band that basically growing to take over the Badlands to liberate the people and provide freedom- and shit. I see Reyes's narrative following what is happening now- where (I'll try to be vague, but I'll put up a spoiler warning in case- there is a threat that needs to be dealt with and The Widow ends up doubling back on promises, standards, etc. and doing some shit she would have never done to get what she wants- which is causing friction among her people. However, the Widow is seeing it as a trade in order to succeed. I could see Reyes having his hand forced like that- and getting in serious trouble with Ryder and the Initiative for it
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Post by decafhigh on May 9, 2017 0:09:36 GMT
Even people who hate her disagree with you since it isn't part of her character. Dr. Nakamoto talks numerous times how there are lines Sloane won't cross and how she keeps her word, and even Drack says, "She'll keep her word. Big on honor, that one.". There are plenty of things they protect our outpost from. Native wildlife, Roekarr, exiles who were too vile for even Kadara Port, and the Collective. Then why does he have his Collective attack the Initiative outpost if we don't side with him? So much for wanting the Initiative succeed. He only wants it to succeed when he is in a position to benefit from it. Well if Drack said it then obviously its true... She puts heads on pikes (yeah Kett heads but still how long till that is just 'anyone she disagrees with' heads), throws people into the lawless badlands to die simply for not having protection money, and generally runs Kadara like some sort of 'gansta paradise'. I wouldn't trust that woman as far as I could bioticly kick her. "There are plenty of things they protect our outpost from. Native wildlife, Roekarr, exiles who were too vile for even Kadara Port, and the Collective."
Plenty of those threats and worse on other worlds. I didn't have to pay anyone protection money on Eos and that outpost is completely surrounded by Kett forces. Obviously part of this is just the poor choices the game gives you in this whole scenario. Personally I would have told her to stuff her protection money and if she really wanted war to bring it on, I'd have rolled in there with some APEX teams, some Krogan forces (after Elladen obviously), and some Angara Resistance forces to arrest Sloane and clear the criminal forces from Kadara completely, by force if I had to. But we don't get that option. Killing her off is really all I'm left with. "Then why does he have his Collective attack the Initiative outpost if we don't side with him?"Dunno, didn't see it in my game so I can't really comment on it much. What is the reason the Collective attacked?
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Motor City Kitty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by orchid on May 9, 2017 0:38:36 GMT
<abbr class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1494283149000" title="May 9, 2017 1:39:09 GMT 3">May 9, 2017 1:39:09 GMT 3</abbr> fialka said: I just think Reyes or Sloane not being in charge of Kadara would make sense for future content. I do think there's a reason Sloane can die where Reyes can't, so regardless of your choice we probably haven't seen the last of him. I keep coming back to this interview with Patrick Weekes where he talks about how they never take killing off a character lightly, because it so severely limits what capacity they can show up in later on. Which means if Sloane lives, she's probably not going to get much more than an extended cameo in future games. But I think having a third party be leader is more respectful of at least maintaining the illusion of player choice than having Reyes take over regardless. Keema would be good because both sides have met her and I think she's pretty inoffensive... even if you hate Reyes I think you could excuse her working with him for the Angara's sake. Though I supposed they could always make the distinction as to whether she's the 'true' ruler or not with a few lines of dialogue. Where if you chose Reyes, we have the situation as it is now, but if players chose Sloane, Keema betrayed her and took over on her own, cutting Reyes out. I guess it all depends on how a big a role they expect the leader of Kadara to play. If they're just going to sit in that chair and speak a few lines it might not matter and they could do both, but if they're actually involved in future missions and such, it might need to be the same NPC regardless. Now I don't believe a second Reyes hasn't been to what is essentially the Collective HQ, but that asides I get your point. The Warden's stance is indeed hard to know, so it's true we gotta wait and see. I'd also like Reyes not to stoop into deliberate torture, but the other option is him being utterly clueless and inept as to not be aware of something as big as the hide-out's function. Even so, the torture (and stopping it) would be on him and it would merely be his incompetence causing it. If a sequel revealed Reyes as impotent puppet to several operatives going their own way, well, it would be a surprising development and could be interesting, but I'd actually like him less. Even though in real life someone being inept idiot is obviously better than being torture organizer. I'm just hoping for more of a Shadow Broker style direction. I think the torture scene is a culmination of rivalry reaching downright hatred between the gangs (Sloane's people have corresponding stuff), and as such a showcase why Reyes and Sloane need it to stop, and why Reyes organized the fake duel. Also it's possible Reyes' writer (Woods?) didn't write that specific building and it's not part of her vision for Reyes. True, it would be easier for the devs. Reyes clearly has a return planned and writing one set of dialogue would be cost-efficient. Still, the Tuchanka arc was maybe the best one in OT and Wrex's death(s) were handled well. If only they got that same amount of room for variance... If they cut either choice out (I'd be disappoint), that Keema idea is definitely the best one I'd encountered yet. I just hope they won't udina Reyes.
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Post by clips7 on May 9, 2017 4:53:12 GMT
Went with Sloane.....my thinking was that Sloane was holding everything together the only way she could and she was taking out the kett every chance she got. She was an a$$hole to Ryder at times, but at least you know where you stand with her and you know she will defend Kadara relentlessly if the kett or anybody tried to take it over.
Reyes i saw as a rebel trying to take over the establishment and just thought there would be chaos and no order if he just took over and he played Ryder for a joke, i can't trust folks like that.....Sloane even checked in on you through email afterwards as her way of saying "Thank you".....She'a a bit of a jerk, but i know she will hold down Kadara should anything jump off....Reyes seems like he would sell out once s*"*t hit the fan....
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Post by Duke Cameron on May 9, 2017 6:59:46 GMT
Sloane Sloane Sloane
Simply don't like Reyes. Took every opportunity I could get to treat him badly. Plus, I actually like Sloane.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pink Ranger on May 9, 2017 11:57:48 GMT
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Post by President of Boom on May 9, 2017 12:52:42 GMT
It's not exactly about honesty. At least not for me. It's about being used. A hypothetical quest situation: Sloane: "I have a project in mind that requires you to distract some people by drinking this Krogan-strength laxative and then getting hit by lightning? C'mon, Nexus dog, help me out here." I want to punch the smugness off her face but maybe I can somehow turn this situation to my advantage. Reyes: "HEY, RYDER, my friend! My accent is so charming and I'm so dashingly spontaneous you can trust me, my friend. So, here, let's move to that clearing over there and toast to our success with this exotic drink. Now, let me go fetch some... aaah... um, aaah... cake... yes, I need to fetch some cake so we can celebrate some more. You just stay here and hold this metal rod for me, okay, my friend. *does the Fonz thumbs up*" KILL HIM WITH FIRE! Except the way this situation plays out in game you don't get hit by lightning, you're actually getting cake, the only difference being that Sloane insults you and makes you pay for it, while Reyes is polite and gives you your cake for free. Which is why I can't find any advantage in choosing the first option. I didn't make my decision based on shoulda coulda woudas. I have no idea how Sloane is in the book and I don't know how things turn out with Reyes in power or if we romance him ( ). That's completely irrelevant to me and so is politeness, at least in this particular situation. All I know is, both of them are selling us the same exact thing, with the extremely important (to me) difference that one is being completely honest about everything and presents her situation without sugarcoating her actions and the other one lies and manipulates us with every smile and every single "friendly", buttery word he utters. To me this is a clear choice. But then again, I can't stand slippery "car salesman" types like Reyes in real life either so I could be totally biased here.
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peekaboo
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by peekaboo on May 9, 2017 13:26:31 GMT
But then again, I can't stand slippery "car salesman" types like Reyes in real life either so I could be totally biased here. *gasp* how dare you insult my shady sleazebag husband! :gasp: joking aside, i see how he comes across like that when you first meet him (while still being a tiny teeny bit hot ). but the beauty of reyes is that as soon as you get to know him better, he drops this facade (which is why he tells you "you know who i really am" if romanced) and becomes much more complex and vulnerable. which is probably why he really had me emotionally rooting for him when he sat on the roof top and gave his little "gorgeous isn't it?" and "i want to be someone" speech. comes across as earnest and real (really just beautifully written and animated). i bought that he is emotionally invested in kadara. rationally, as i mentioned before, i deduce from his economical and tactical decision making that he is simply a smarter and better leader for kadara (in the sense that he profits as long as kadara profits, so the goals are aligned here). but emotionally, he got me on that rooftop.
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