Who Rules Kadara Port

It's not exactly about honesty. At least not for me. It's about being used.

A hypothetical quest situation:
Sloane:  "I have a project in mind that requires you to distract some people by drinking this Krogan-strength laxative and then getting hit by lightning? C'mon, Nexus dog, help me out here." I want to punch the smugness off her face but maybe I can somehow turn this situation to my advantage.

Reyes:  "HEY, RYDER, my friend! My accent is so charming and I'm so dashingly spontaneous you can trust me, my friend. So,  here, let's move to that clearing over there and toast to our success with this exotic drink. Now, let me go fetch some... aaah... um, aaah... cake... yes,  I need to fetch some cake so we can celebrate some more.  You just stay here and hold this metal rod for me, okay, my friend. *does the Fonz thumbs up*"  
KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

Actually, is you talk to Reyes right after getting Nakamoto's quest (assuming he doesn't have something else to say that gets precedence) he'll approve of you helping him and tell you Nakamoto is one of the only honest men on Kadara (other than Reyes himself, but there's a clear change in tone where's he's not quite as serious... so the hints that you shouldn't believe him are there). So Reyes actually encourages you to stop the drug trade, albeit indirectly. You could look at it as being one of the 'thousand cuts' he mentions later, because it does negatively impact Sloane. But the Oblivion trade is crippled regardless of whether Reyes had any kind intentions here. I still think it's a point in his favor.

Otherwise I think your post does a good job of comparing the two. Neither are perfect - Reyes and the Collective have their flaws which I'm not trying to excuse. But I feel like most of the bad the Collective do, Sloane does something equivalent. Meanwhile the Collective also does good... which, by contrast, I don't see from Sloane.

As for Reyes' leadership - I think the bigger issue is that I feel his whole 'leading from the shadows' thing is going to bite him in the ass. We already see that happening if we go to the Draullir hideout in particular. We learn that the chain of command is fractured to the point where the Collective still attacks the Pathfinder despite the Charlatan's orders. We see someone posing as him to give false orders, using his anonymity to their advantage. We see the beaten prisoner, which, if you believe the Warden, is something the Charalatan wouldn't approve of but they do it anyway figuring he'll never know. For all we know that Collective torture den is something Reyes isn't aware of either. That could be by design - in that the Charlatan asks for things to get done and they do, and he gets to divest himself of responsibility. But it could also be that Collective members act regardless of orders or whatever code of conduct might be in place if there is one, because they see their 'leader' as a faceless myth they don't really have to obey 100%. So it would be all too easy for someone to take advantage of that and push Reyes aside.

That's why I think it's totally possible neither he nor Sloane will be in charge regardless of your choice. Be it Sloane or Reyes, someone within their own ranks will betray or outplay them, respectively.

Sloane Kelly isn't the same person after Ryder saves her life. That's made evident by her willingness to allow a Nexus outpost in the first place, going by a first name basis with Ryder, and her arrival in the final mission. The game establishes that the outpost is well protected, and that trade is flowing. She also isn't likely to randomly execute someone for no reason, as Dr.  Nakamoto mentions. (Despite his less than favorable opinion of her.)

Sloane Kelly treats her friends well, and is less likely to pull underhanded manipulation of trust in comparison to Reyes. As someone else mentioned in this thread before, I'd rather take a knife to front than get stabbed in the back.

Which of her people are turning against her? I don't recall anything like that. Though if that is a criteria for failure then Reyes should fail too since he has people in the Collective turning against him, there even being a quest to find one. 
I don't want to shoot him. I want to lock him up in a cell and throw away the key. I hate how in Bioware games there are only two choices: let them go or kill them. 

I can see them doing a Kadara DLC where you help Sloane and/or Reyes from a mutual threat but I can't really see them making Reyes a temporary squadmate in a way that makes sense since Ryder and Reyes could go from not trusting each other to hating each other. The only way it would work is if they force things on the player and they shouldn't do that. But other than that yeah there could be a story that helps make things have a smoother transition into future games, like after the events of the DLC the Exiles and the Initiative form a formal alliance or they are welcomed back into the fold.

Exactly. It'd be like someone you hate showing up at your house and setting up camp on your lawn. Chances are you are not going to accept that trespassing and will try to get them off. Once you prove yourself as a friend or at least not an enemy, she offers you the spot but she still expects you to pay like everyone else, so it'd be like letting the person stay on your lawn and have access to things but they have to help pay some of the bills. 

I agree in general that Reyes' position is risky, but not that risky. The Collective attacks are not in defiance of the Charlatan, the word just hasn't reached them. Clumsy way of explaining more enemy variety, of course, but then again Ryder needs to board the Tempest just to read a text message so I'll allow it. If Reyes didn't have even that amount of control over his people, he'd have way more severe problems than Sloane.

The Warden's "oh shit" reaction to me reads not as them breaking rules, but that Ryder just wasn't supposed to see the beatings happen. This can be interpreted both ways probably. The torture den audio tape concludes with the operatives going to report to the Charlatan. With how tight reins Reyes is depicted as holding, it really unlikely that this elaborate, secretive house (so much like Reyes in character) and the operations taking place in there would've been conducted by rogue operatives. IMO there's no reason to believe that the Collective's worst deeds are done by disobeying members and that Reyes just wants to fight Sloane's oppression while making a little profit on the side. Frankly, if that turned out to be a case, I'd be disappointed. I'm waiting here for my renegade options, dammit.

I think Keema might be it. She's there both under Sloane and Reyes, and is obviously power hungry. She's friendly with Reyes, but the theme is that nobody knows him except through business. Reyes would be a fool not to be on his guard, she's playing his own game.

Wasn't it her own guards that beat up Kaetus? That's why Sloane got upset, drove everybody out and stopped trusting them, and instead asked Ryder's help.


They ought to make it like Wrex/Vreav on Tuchanka in ME2. That would probably lead to less content than forcing Reyes on everybody, but that kind of negating of choice would be terrible game design. The ambassador choice will probably be useless illusion just like Udina/Anderson, but Kadara stuff has maybe the most role-playing potential in the entire game (which was marketed as RPG, in any case). BioWare really shouldn't let it go to waste.

I agree about Keema being the mutual threat if they go with an internal one. 

I saw that as more the Collective had people infiltrate the Outcasts and then when they were within the ranks they beat up Kaetus. Thus why she doesn't trust anyone within her organization with that mission. 

That would be what I would prefer. It's not like future games will spend much time in Heleus anyway. Either they should respect both choices, or if they make a canon scenario it affects everyone equally like neither being in charge. As for the ambassador choice, it's mentioned ingame as that person only being temporary until a vote is held so chances are there will be a person who wins the vote and serve as Heleus ambassador regardless of the choice but still respect the choice. 

The fact that Kelly outright tells Ryder that the outpost only exists because of that personal trust, cements the idea that she won't attempt to manipulate anyone with a pretty lie. I would find it incredibly odd if she just welcomed a Pathfinder with open arms,  while also being ready to reconnect with zero conditions.

Leading people out of a mess like that would require a personality harsher than most Exiles involved. The fact that Kadara Port isn't a smoking ruin shows that on some level, Kelly's methods workedfor the short term. These methods will have to change as the planet becomes more stable, and I believe she will adapt.

/shrug She already betrayed the Nexus and the AI once.  She made it clear she wanted nothing to do with an outpost on Kadara, going so far as to say it would be an act of war, before she was forced to ask for your help.  She then extorts tribute from your outpost for protection.  Protection from what exactly?  From her and her exiles.  Other than that the planet is no more dangerous or in need of protection that any other we placed an outpost on.  I can't imagine she is doing anything but looking for an excuse to raid that outpost the minute it becomes expedient for her to do so.

Reyes at least actually wants the AI to succeed and wants to make Kadara more than just a criminal outpost crap hole.

If you don't take the formula away and side with Reyes, the selling of Oblivion continues without Reyes trying to stop it. 
Also even with Reyes gone the soup kitchen is supported in the slums so Sloane and Reyes take care of them. The slums are still part of Kadara Port. 

Yeah, Keema seems just as ambitious as any of them. I wouldn't be surprised if she was hoping for full war to break out between the Outcasts and Collective so they weaken or wipe each other out so she can move in and take over. Since that doesn't happen, she could look for a new opening. 
Agreed. Sounds like the ones who infiltrated probably had discovered some 'lead' about the Collective so Kaetus goes to investigate only to be ambushed. 

Yes, the drug trade should be stopped. I don't like that they just let it go on. I think I'll always take it away from the asari.

Maybe he keeps supporting the soup kitchen, though? Or it just stays there for whatever reason. I have never heard the npcs talk there again indicating Sloane took it over. I think they are silent after showdown.
Doesn't the warden in the slums say it's not part of the port, they are just there to keep peace? Hmm, I think I need to check this again.

I don't know why either group tries attacks the outpost. Do they want to destroy it, take hostages, or just show you backed the wrong group who can't protect it? I mean they don't succeed but still.