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Post by lyravain on May 1, 2017 13:58:04 GMT
I write this 'review' of sorts having finished the Single Player and now playing Multiplayer almost exclusively (well, what can I say, it IS fun, when it works). However, aside from the animations issues that everyone complained about (which, strangely, I never encountered) there's other problems I find with Mass Effect Andromeda that I would like to hopefully bring up. So, without further ado;
I will start with the most constant one; the companions (bar Vetra and Dreck) are AGGRAVATING. We have Cora, a commando with no grasp of the concept of FUBAR and zero adaptability. We have Liam Costa, a 'crisis specialist' who creates more issues than he solves. Then we have PB, who's romance is shoved on our faces with all the grace of a warhammer -but I can't help but feel like a pedophile every time it comes up because of how childishly she acts. I mean, seriously, she calls herself a 'scientist' but considers it a 'plan' to eject an escape pod from the Tempest at terminal velocity towards a volcano. Jaal is a self-righteous moron who believes the Angara can do no wrong. Of course not Jaal, the Angara are saints, they must all have SOME reason for wanting to shoot the one guy in the cluster who has repeatedly saved them. No, really. The companions feel like caricatures with 'traits' thrown on them by someone who just openened up TVTropes and chose a bunch of random tropes, stuck them on and said 'neeeext!'. Even Ashley (from the original trilogy) had more personality than them.
Next is the weapons/powers balance. Or rather the lack thereof. Weapons VASTLY outshine powers in the game. While, yes, I do agree that Ryder is NOT a hero (like Shepard, he was a proven War Hero by the START of the trilogy and a legend by the end) but that doesn't justify having this much of a difference. Even combos are really not all that useful. Handy, yes, nifty, sure. But when it comes down to it, my PAW is FAR more effective at tearing through opposition than my three powers.
By far the most important problem with the game is the LACK OF IMAGINATION. You mean to tell me, we crossed DarkSpace, went to a COMPLETELY different GALAXY... and both sentient alien species we meet are; bipedal humanoids, with eyes, noses and a mouth, utilize weaponry that is compatible with humans, there's large lizards and mushrooms and trees... Are you KIDDING me? The first trilogy had more of a varietion on the aliens; the Hanar, the Elcor. Those were DIFFERENT. They were UNIQUE. They were IMAGINATIVE. All the Kett and Angara feel like is a damn SKIN SWAP. Seriously? You could have done ANYTHING you thought of with the ability to have 'brand new species' and you want to tell me NONE of those responcible of artistic creation so much as looked at a Spore video? You could have had metallic plants and rocky fungi, aliens that are part gas or work in hive-like states (as inspired for example by the ocean-dwelling organism called a 'Man-o-War'). Colors, textures, everything could have been tweaked and moved about. Heck, you could have at least asked Neil DeGrasse Tyson (or any biologist) for ideas and they would have given you at least the basis of an idea for a more creative, but realistic, species. Honestly, I feel gypped with this.
Finally; the Multiplayer is FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH ISSUES. Constant crashes, enemies that are absurdly tough (do I really need to empty half my Revenant magazine on a Raider to kill him? -not that I don't enjoy the challenge), there's lag, no ability to converse with teammates without VoIP, no actual Friends List (and don't even START me on the 'Origin In-Game', because it increases my ping by about 400ms every time I turn it on). For crying out loud; at least fix the crashes, I'm sick and tired of losing stuff because of this.
That said the game is NOT bad. It has great combat feel (again, there's the fact that Ryder isn't a 'war veteran', he's an explorer, and a new one at that, so we can't expect him to be a one-man-army). Love the jetpack and individual power cooldown, the crafting's cool, loads of lore and quests to keep us invested, the Nomad's fun to just drive around the sites etc. I'd have loved taking part in a space battle (who wouldn't) but hey, exploration force, having frigates and the like probably wasn't the first thing in their minds. Hoping to see that in the next installment.
Here's my advice; fix the known bugs, add creativity. More importantly; when the second installement comes, make its multiplayer compatible with this one so, even if you can't buy the second game, you can still play and enjoy it.
Thank you for reading. Despite my misgivings, I enjoyed the game and do not regret buying it. I just have a hard time enjoying it to the maximum, as it should be -and I do believe that companies as large as Bioware and EA should provide better content.
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liquidsnake
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by liquidsnake on May 1, 2017 15:10:11 GMT
I write this 'review' of sorts having finished the Single Player and now playing Multiplayer almost exclusively (well, what can I say, it IS fun, when it works). However, aside from the animations issues that everyone complained about (which, strangely, I never encountered) there's other problems I find with Mass Effect Andromeda that I would like to hopefully bring up. So, without further ado; I will start with the most constant one; the companions (bar Vetra and Dreck) are AGGRAVATING. We have Cora, a commando with no grasp of the concept of FUBAR and zero adaptability. We have Liam Costa, a 'crisis specialist' who creates more issues than he solves. Then we have PB, who's romance is shoved on our faces with all the grace of a warhammer -but I can't help but feel like a pedophile every time it comes up because of how childishly she acts. I mean, seriously, she calls herself a 'scientist' but considers it a 'plan' to eject an escape pod from the Tempest at terminal velocity towards a volcano. Jaal is a self-righteous moron who believes the Angara can do no wrong. Of course not Jaal, the Angara are saints, they must all have SOME reason for wanting to shoot the one guy in the cluster who has repeatedly saved them. No, really. The companions feel like caricatures with 'traits' thrown on them by someone who just openened up TVTropes and chose a bunch of random tropes, stuck them on and said 'neeeext!'. Even Ashley (from the original trilogy) had more personality than them. Next is the weapons/powers balance. Or rather the lack thereof. Weapons VASTLY outshine powers in the game. While, yes, I do agree that Ryder is NOT a hero (like Shepard, he was a proven War Hero by the START of the trilogy and a legend by the end) but that doesn't justify having this much of a difference. Even combos are really not all that useful. Handy, yes, nifty, sure. But when it comes down to it, my PAW is FAR more effective at tearing through opposition than my three powers. By far the most important problem with the game is the LACK OF IMAGINATION. You mean to tell me, we crossed DarkSpace, went to a COMPLETELY different GALAXY... and both sentient alien species we meet are; bipedal humanoids, with eyes, noses and a mouth, utilize weaponry that is compatible with humans, there's large lizards and mushrooms and trees... Are you KIDDING me? The first trilogy had more of a varietion on the aliens; the Hanar, the Elcor. Those were DIFFERENT. They were UNIQUE. They were IMAGINATIVE. All the Kett and Angara feel like is a damn SKIN SWAP. Seriously? You could have done ANYTHING you thought of with the ability to have 'brand new species' and you want to tell me NONE of those responcible of artistic creation so much as looked at a Spore video? You could have had metallic plants and rocky fungi, aliens that are part gas or work in hive-like states (as inspired for example by the ocean-dwelling organism called a 'Man-o-War'). Colors, textures, everything could have been tweaked and moved about. Heck, you could have at least asked Neil DeGrasse Tyson (or any biologist) for ideas and they would have given you at least the basis of an idea for a more creative, but realistic, species. Honestly, I feel gypped with this. You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to just interject some of my own thoughts to counteract. I thoroughly enjoy the game. I can't speak to the multiplayer component because I'll likely never play it. 1. Companions. I actually think Vetra is one of the more boring companions. However, go back and watch some Youtube videos of interacting with your characters in ME1. I've said this in other posts, but I think most people are thinking of the character interactions in ME3, where we had three full games of reference point to like these characters. Garrus, specifically, in ME1, was a very boring flat character. He was an ex-cop, disillusioned and depressed that it wasn't a great job. That's it. All he ever talks about is his time at C-Sec and that he was frustrated by red tape. It's not until ME2 he develops more personality that continues to build into ME3. Using Ashley as the comparison isn't representative because she's actually one of the more nuanced and more fleshed out characters in ME1. Every character consists of tropes. However, what you see as aggravation I see as developed character flaws. Cora is a professional. She's been an asari huntress (okay, okay I get the jokes), she was Alec's second to become Pathfinder, then everything changes. Talk to her and see how she's faced disappointment after disappointment and still plugs along. Actually, she does have a pretty good FUBAR skill because despite being passed over for you as Pathfinder, she accepts it and goes along willingly. She never fights it. Liam, I'll give you. He sucks. Peebee's romance isn't pushed any more than anyone else's. Certainly less so than Liara's through the entire Mass Effect trilogy. Jaal... isn't really self-righteous. In fact, he admits to flaws in his people, like the roekaar. He's the one who willingly jumps aboard the Tempest to be his people's representative with you. He has no idea anything about you and risks his life by coming along. Plus he cares about you and the crew, as seen when he's trying to make gifts for everyone to show he cares and wants to be a part of the team. 2. Biotic/weapons. I don't see what you are talking about. I feel like the biotics are sufficiently powerful. I rely on biotic detonations quite a bit and try to use them as much as I can to soften up/finish off opponents and use my guns as mop up or crowd control. For instance, singularity and detonating a throw is my bread and butter with a few Nova's thrown in to boot. I think the biotics are actually pretty powerful and they feel great to use with how fast Ryder can move. Also you can set up 4 different "favorites" of three distinct powers and change them on the fly in the weapons wheel... So you really can possibly have 12 powers (be they tech, biotic or combat) at your disposal.... 3. Meh..> I suppose personal flavor. I will concede it's unlikely to travel to a different galaxy and still have humanoid alien species. That's true. We could use some more variety in the next games. However... we needed enemies and allies that could move like us and be enemies and companions. How in the world are you going to fight a hanar opponent? The races are humanoids for practicality's sake. It's the same in the OT.... Drell, krogan, asari, turian, salarian, quarian, batarian... everything is bipedal humanoid. The ones that aren't? The hanar and the elcor? They are never more than just background noise that are maybe vendors or give you quests but they never are companions or enemies or anything and they are slowly phased out over the course of the trilogy (and by slowly I mean they pretty much vanish after ME1. It's a game. If the new species didn't have new armors and weapons we could use, people would complain and we would just have the same old stuff. They are made humanoid so we can relate to these game characters and have a proper enemy to fight that 's both new and familiar. Seriously, if we had just enemies like the elcor that aren't humanoid.... well I guess the entire game would just be fighting fiends all the time and nothing more. Honestly, it's fine that you don't like the game.. However, I don't know... some of what you said just seems like you didn't really dive deep in the game and took everything at a surface level look. If you can't objectively say that the companions have more depth of character and content given to them than the squad mates in ME1... I just don't think you actually did more than main missions and called it a day.
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RoboticWater
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by RoboticWater on May 1, 2017 15:44:14 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to just interject some of my own thoughts to counteract. I thoroughly enjoy the game. I can't speak to the multiplayer component because I'll likely never play it. 1. Companions. I actually think Vetra is one of the more boring companions. However, go back and watch some Youtube videos of interacting with your characters in ME1. I've said this in other posts, but I think most people are thinking of the character interactions in ME3, where we had three full games of reference point to like these characters. Garrus, specifically, in ME1, was a very boring flat character. He was an ex-cop, disillusioned and depressed that it wasn't a great job. That's it. All he ever talks about is his time at C-Sec and that he was frustrated by red tape. It's not until ME2 he develops more personality that continues to build into ME3. I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 15:50:32 GMT
I did not feel that powers were underperforming in the SP vs guns, but I did not have access or crafted uber-special gear.
Now, in MP, it does feel like the power characters were really put down vs guns, with the far longer CDs than the SP, and the enemies in MP being rather epic, the slow leveling speeds, and not getting the access to the full build by the time you manage to get to level 20, having to level each character separately...
Overall, I feel that they really wanted to make MP more challenging and acquisition more fun, and reward the players who are committed to it, but instead, well, it's just irritating, and for me it ended up with "Nah, I am having more fun playing in SP, why bother with MP?"
In the ME2/ME3, the MP combat and leveling was just that one notch above the SP in terms of adrenaline and pace, but now... SP is just... far faster and cooler imo.
I disagree on the imagination involved in alien design. Variety is lacking, that's true, but the world set-up and the species background imo is more interesting than in the Trilogy. It like how it is divided into the "Angaran" core planets of Havarl, Aya and Voeld, and the borderlands of the Kadara/Eladeen, and H7/Turian Would be World... finally, the Meridian that comes in the end of the game. Hanar or Elcors or Volus or Vorcha are funny, and I miss funny comic races. I also miss a hard-core race like Batarians. I wish the developers did use a leeway given by the Nexus set-up and added a few reps from those MW races. For the Helius itself though, three races presented were well tied together.
From the planetary design perspective, imo Eladeen and Kadara should have either been one world or Eladeen should have gotten a different coat of paint. I am more inclined to Kadara and Eladeen to be one world, with Eladeen being the borderlands on Kadara, it fits neatly setting-wise.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 16:01:21 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to just interject some of my own thoughts to counteract. I thoroughly enjoy the game. I can't speak to the multiplayer component because I'll likely never play it. 1. Companions. I actually think Vetra is one of the more boring companions. However, go back and watch some Youtube videos of interacting with your characters in ME1. I've said this in other posts, but I think most people are thinking of the character interactions in ME3, where we had three full games of reference point to like these characters. Garrus, specifically, in ME1, was a very boring flat character. He was an ex-cop, disillusioned and depressed that it wasn't a great job. That's it. All he ever talks about is his time at C-Sec and that he was frustrated by red tape. It's not until ME2 he develops more personality that continues to build into ME3. I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. In ME2, imo they were able to introduce the over-the top and love/hate characters because there were so many of them. And the DLCs added three more. So, it was way easier to find those that hit the OMG! LOVE IT! cord with each player.
There is only one flawlessly executed, universally appealing joinable character in the entire MET, and that's Mordin. All others are liked or disliked depending on the player who plays the game, and you can pick them apart or love them to bits etc, like in every other Bio game. Drack is close to Mordin in that it's impossible not to like him, even if you are like me, and hate Krogan. His design just works.
Andromeda's restriction to six characters is more of a flaw in its character design imo than the choice to have these specific blueprints (each character is actually rather interesting, even if you personally do not like his or her shtick; i.e. Jack is no better than Liam in that she is supposed to be hard-core and all she does is cry on your shoulder all game long). But, ME2 suffered from most of its content going into the companions. The games that imo did a better job at creating a cast and where Andromeda could take pointers are Jade Empire (a cast of 8) and Dragon Age 2 (cast of seven). If they have taken chances on expanding the cast to 7-9, they'd have a room to add at least a couple of characters that could risk infuriating a player, but also might win him or her over. Again, the decision to stick to just 4 council races hurt them there as well, because save for Vetra, we got the same old companion race-gender combos, and in a sci-fi game with a bunch of races, novelty does matter a lot, as you go from a game to game. It's not that PeeBee is a bad Asari, it is that she is yet another Asari.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on May 1, 2017 16:04:32 GMT
I disagree on the imagination involved in alien design. Variety is lacking, that's true, but the world set-up and the species background imo is more interesting than in the Trilogy. It like how it is divided into the "Angaran" core planets of Havarl, Aya and Voeld, and the borderlands of the Kadara/Eladeen, and H7/Turian Would be World... finally, the Meridian that comes in the end of the game. Hanar or Elcors or Volus or Vorcha are funny, and I miss funny comic races. I also miss a hard-core race like Batarians. I wish the developers did use a leeway given by the Nexus set-up and added a few reps from those MW races. For the Helius itself though, three races presented were well tied together. I just wanted to add a comment to this. If anything I found the Elcor, Hanar, and Volus from the first game to be nothing more then placeholders. They felt exactly like talking to Avina for they just stood there are boring conversation pieces to dump background dialogue on players. To me they added as much to the game as scanning the wildlife in Andromeda for you get background information about those specifics and very little else as well.
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Post by zeypher on May 1, 2017 16:09:45 GMT
Oh powers become useless quickly beyond level 80, even detonations. Let me know how it feels that you gotta blow up a grunt 5 times to kill it. I agree about the characters and the only reason i drag cora around is for shield boost.
I cant believe i am saying this but fallout 4 had better and more useful companions. Dont like them? use the dog, dont like that either? Build a robot to your destructive desire? want to solo? sure go ahead. So not only i had a ton more options in fallout 4 but had characters like Valentine who was awesome, Danse as well especially when he discovers the truth bout him, then there is our faithful Codsworth who over the years start gaining sentience and who again we can modify in to machine of doom, this also applies to Ada who was another companion i enjoyed and both of them were damn better AI's then bloody SAM. Finally i could outfit my companions to how i wanted and sure i would have loved new vegas style companion AI wheel, but even then fallout 4 did better companions than Bioware.
Bioware really needs to take a long hard look as in terms of writing, world building, attention to detail etc CDPR absolutely smashes them, Beth offers more role-playing and better companions and still has a better world-building with proper AI routines etc than bioware. So i wonder what exactly have bioware got left?
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Post by themikefest on May 1, 2017 16:15:44 GMT
I like what you said about the peepee asari. So I gave you a like. Its too bad there wasn't an option for Ryder to not have her on the squad
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RoboticWater
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by RoboticWater on May 1, 2017 16:30:21 GMT
I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. In ME2, imo they were able to introduce the over-the top and love/hate characters because there were so many of them. And the DLCs added three more. So, it was way easier to find those that hit the OMG! LOVE IT! cord with each player.
There is only one flawlessly executed, universally appealing joinable character in the entire MET, and that's Mordin. All others are liked or disliked depending on the player who plays the game, and you can pick them apart or love them to bits etc, like in every other Bio game. Drack is close to Mordin in that it's impossible not to like him, even if you are like me, and hate Krogan. His design just works.
Andromeda's restriction to six characters is more of a flaw in its character design imo than the choice to have these specific blueprints (each character is actually rather interesting, even if you personally do not like his or her shtick; i.e. Jack is no better than Liam in that she is supposed to be hard-core and all she does is cry on your shoulder all game long). But, ME2 suffered from most of its content going into the companions. The games that imo did a better job at creating a cast and where Andromeda could take pointers are Jade Empire (a cast of 8) and Dragon Age 2 (cast of seven). If they have taken chances on expanding the cast to 7-9, they'd have a room to add at least a couple of characters that could risk infuriating a player, but also might win him or her over. Again, the decision to stick to just 4 council races hurt them there as well, because save for Vetra, we got the same old companion race-gender combos, and in a sci-fi game with a bunch of races, novelty does matter.
Sure, ME2 took more shots, but even its hit percentage is better than Andromeda. I found all but one character in ME2 to be at least mildly enjoyable, and of that, I thought most were solid and a select two (Mordin and Legion) that were amazing. Similar with Inquisition, except I think the distribution of quality skews even higher. Andromeda has Drack and then Vetra, and then it falls off sharply from there. And with Jack's shtick, I felt that it fit her character better than it did Liam's. You're right about the character design; I think her punk style made her personality effective in a way that it isn't with Liam. And honestly, we shouldn't even need to grade in relationship to previous games. At this point, I find it more than a little disappointing that BIoWare can't do in tens of hours and hundreds (thousands?) of lines of dialog what a short story can do in mere pages. Companions are what set BioWare apart from the pack more so than just about any other feature, so it's annoying to see them fail to not only reach the heights of their previous games but to push beyond their rather archetypal portrayal of characters. Even though it worked in BioWare's previous games, I don't think the solution needs to be a bigger roster. In fact, I don't even think it should. 6 is a good number, but BioWare need to put more depth into each personality.
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Post by sungrey on May 1, 2017 16:48:11 GMT
My main gripe is the enemy scaling vs weapons and powers. The developers either need to add damage multipliers for powers and weapons when you go over level 80, or cap enemy advancement at 80-90. It shouldn't take multiple combo detonations and several clips of ammo to take down one grunt.
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Post by decafhigh on May 1, 2017 16:48:25 GMT
And honestly, we shouldn't even need to grade in relationship to previous games. At this point, I find it more than a little disappointing that BIoWare can't do in tens of hours and hundreds (thousands?) of lines of dialog what a short story can do in mere pages. Companions are what set BioWare apart from the pack more so than just about any other feature, so it's annoying to see them fail to not only reach the heights of their previous games but to push beyond their rather archetypal portrayal of characters. Even though it worked in BioWare's previous games, I don't think the solution needs to be a bigger roster. In fact, I don't even think it should. 6 is a good number, but BioWare need to put more depth into each personality. So much this.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 16:50:07 GMT
In ME2, imo they were able to introduce the over-the top and love/hate characters because there were so many of them. And the DLCs added three more. So, it was way easier to find those that hit the OMG! LOVE IT! cord with each player.
There is only one flawlessly executed, universally appealing joinable character in the entire MET, and that's Mordin. All others are liked or disliked depending on the player who plays the game, and you can pick them apart or love them to bits etc, like in every other Bio game. Drack is close to Mordin in that it's impossible not to like him, even if you are like me, and hate Krogan. His design just works.
Andromeda's restriction to six characters is more of a flaw in its character design imo than the choice to have these specific blueprints (each character is actually rather interesting, even if you personally do not like his or her shtick; i.e. Jack is no better than Liam in that she is supposed to be hard-core and all she does is cry on your shoulder all game long). But, ME2 suffered from most of its content going into the companions. The games that imo did a better job at creating a cast and where Andromeda could take pointers are Jade Empire (a cast of 8) and Dragon Age 2 (cast of seven). If they have taken chances on expanding the cast to 7-9, they'd have a room to add at least a couple of characters that could risk infuriating a player, but also might win him or her over. Again, the decision to stick to just 4 council races hurt them there as well, because save for Vetra, we got the same old companion race-gender combos, and in a sci-fi game with a bunch of races, novelty does matter.
Sure, ME2 took more shots, but even its hit percentage is better than Andromeda. I found all but one character in ME2 to be at least mildly enjoyable, and of that, I thought most were solid and a select two (Mordin and Legion) that were amazing. Similar with Inquisition, except I think the distribution of quality skews even higher. Andromeda has Drack and then Vetra, and then it falls off sharply from there. And with Jack's shtick, I felt that it fit her character better than it did Liam's. You're right about the character design; I think her punk style made her personality effective in a way that it isn't with Liam. And honestly, we shouldn't even need to grade in relationship to previous games. At this point, I find it more than a little disappointing that BIoWare can't do in tens of hours and hundreds (thousands?) of lines of dialog what a short story can do in mere pages. Companions are what set BioWare apart from the pack more so than just about any other feature, so it's annoying to see them fail to not only reach the heights of their previous games but to push beyond their rather archetypal portrayal of characters. Even though it worked in BioWare's previous games, I don't think the solution needs to be a bigger roster. In fact, I don't even think it should. 6 is a good number, but BioWare need to put more depth into each personality. I cannot relate to your PoV, because, frankly, for me Andromeda was a redemption of Inquisition in the character department. I rabidly over-the-top love ME2, but the number of hits to the heart there is very hit and miss. For me, Andromeda crew feels like it's all consisting of Garruses and Talis, chars I really like, but just not that crazy about But I can understand where you are coming from, because I got the same feeling in Inquisition, particularly because I played it after DA2.
Deth of personality might not be what you are after, because the Andromeda characters are actually far more layers and far deeper than ME2. One-dimensional is quite often a euphemism for "I did not like him/her, so I don't really care". Cora, for example, is by turns too young, and too old, by the book, not knowing if the book is really necessary; she is feeling like a pretender, then that she was not given her just due by either asari or by Alec for her talent; she is shy of her biotic nature; feeling that Alec gave her the dream, and that he duped her; being playful, being cold; and finally one odd strand that starts right at the beginning of the game with her choosing to be in hydroponics game coming to the forefront. In the end she proves herself to be a dreamer and a druid-like figure who is stifled by the very machinery and military that she tried to conform to, and what she needs is a plot of land and a garden to grow.
That's a fairly complex character to convey in the space of a few dialogues and banters, and Andromeda manages, well, it does if a player likes the character enough to listen a bit more carefully. Which is why it is risky, and it is better to make characters like HK-47 or Jack with one revelation of "that's deep, dude!" behind the OMG, so cewl façade.
The power of cool façade and of the archtype is huge. All the absolutely most favorite characters are basically that (Save for Mordin).
Lots of cool facades is what worked for ME2, JE and DA2. (And for Inquisition with at least one character for me personally). Andromeda's characters, save for Drack all are loaded with something that makes them "not cool", and that makes them less favored with the player.
Imagine Liam being a daredevil flying into battle with two Omni-blades flashing and telling how he was a hard-ass, and making his loyalty mission premise being that he found a leak while hacking through the files. Make him speak cool, not stutter and slur his words...
Imagine Cora shaking a mane of blond locks and telling you how she thinks Asari sure were cool biotics, and she learned a bunch, but she was so much better, and giggle at their dumb manuals for silly schoolgirl fans. BTW, your dad was good, but you are beyond special, young and awesome Ryder! Oh, yeah, don't forget to add killing some uppity really evil someone she had no proof was evil, so she is on the run!!!!
Imagine Vetra taking after Zaeed as an edgy merc not after Garrus inoffensive placidness with a light humor.
Imagine Jaal being Akksul, an anti-alien that speaks fast is quick to anger and gives you passionate anti-alien tirades
Imagine Gil as a Quarian with no home and a death-wish (and put him on the squad), an angst central of mysterious angst.
And, yep, PeeBee can be another Tali, poking in her tech and never ever being a pest, just a sweet little sister.
You can repackage each of them in a cooler wrapper. (Shrug) I would probably gasmed over that (and mia culpa would have done it that way, at least the males, lol - and how many male players would have hated with a burning passion my beloved awesome daredevils and angst-centrals?).
I think they might go that way with a DLC character or in the sequel. Chances are, they thought "Garrus was popular, let's try more garruses!" And when one garrus is nice, five of them, being garrus and one of them being a less successful "little roguish-mage sister".... too much.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 1, 2017 16:59:08 GMT
When i started Andromeda for the very first time, and during prologue Alec was saying about reasons to leave "some for discovery, to see the unknown - others for a new start" i was almost sure that we will get much more varied companions - when it comes to reasons. Examples: I was hoping to get a former killer, who was regretting most of the things he made he did in his life and was just trying to start a new life in the place where no one knew him /later in his loyalty mission we will find out that he was recognized by someone - something similar to Blackwall personal story in some points/; Some smuggler character, pursued by his enemies and ex-partners, who just need to run away from Milky Way as there was no place where he could hide; I was also thinking about getting a female character, sentenced to life imprisonment at Earth, but released to serve on Nexus under Alec's supervision, just because she was some kind of great tech specialist...
The thing is, almost every companion on Tempest got the same reason: i am here because i want to try something new, something different. MEH. I think story-wise will be to write into that great trip to Andromeda some characters, who don't really have any other choice - the matter of survival and being alive.
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Post by SofNascimento on May 1, 2017 17:02:02 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate.
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Post by SofNascimento on May 1, 2017 17:03:59 GMT
I like what you said about the peepee asari. So I gave you a like. Its too bad there wasn't an option for Ryder to not have her on the squad The fact that there was absolutely no repercusions for what she did with the escape pod is ridiculous. There is like one dialogue that you can show anger and that's it. Back to Ryder liking PeeBee and indulging her chieldish bahavior.
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Post by liquidsnake on May 1, 2017 17:08:18 GMT
Sure, ME2 took more shots, but even its hit percentage is better than Andromeda. I found all but one character in ME2 to be at least mildly enjoyable, and of that, I thought most were solid and a select two (Mordin and Legion) that were amazing. Similar with Inquisition, except I think the distribution of quality skews even higher. Andromeda has Drack and then Vetra, and then it falls off sharply from there. And with Jack's shtick, I felt that it fit her character better than it did Liam's. You're right about the character design; I think her punk style made her personality effective in a way that it isn't with Liam. And honestly, we shouldn't even need to grade in relationship to previous games. At this point, I find it more than a little disappointing that BIoWare can't do in tens of hours and hundreds (thousands?) of lines of dialog what a short story can do in mere pages. Companions are what set BioWare apart from the pack more so than just about any other feature, so it's annoying to see them fail to not only reach the heights of their previous games but to push beyond their rather archetypal portrayal of characters. Even though it worked in BioWare's previous games, I don't think the solution needs to be a bigger roster. In fact, I don't even think it should. 6 is a good number, but BioWare need to put more depth into each personality. I guess it's personal opinion. I like the companions in MEA. I think they are all engaging and interesting in their own right (except Liam really. I don't care for him much.) ME2 is entirely about the characters. That's the game except for three or four "story" missions. The entire game focuses on a mission to recruit a character and then a mission to secure their loyalty. Look, I love ME2, but the entire game was just focusing on this massive expanse of characters they added with very little story outside of that. Take ME2's story and stick the original Normandy crew in there as if they just joined you after the events of ME1. That's.... a very short game with very little story. The story of the game IS these characters so of course you are going to get to know them in a different way. And then they don't really appear outside of cameo missions in the final game (except for Garrus and Tali). MEA has much more in terms of story threads than JUST the characters but we still get quite a bit of individual character interaction and exploration. In ADDITION to decently sized companion specific missions and follow ups, along with the normal ship-based conversations, we also have the main story against the Kett, the main story of meeting and securing alliances with the Angara, individual story threads on each planet we visit - Eos, Voeld, Havarl, Elaaden and the Nexus - the settlement/colony/Remnant story threads AND finding the other arks that came to Andromeda with us. That's a LOT more story noise going on in MEA than the entirely companion focused ME2 story. I love the original trilogy and I'm in no way bashing it. I just think a lot of people aren't giving MEA a fair shake on the grounds that it ISN'T the main trilogy. I don't presume to know if that's what you are doing, I'm not saying it is and frankly, if you don't like it and you don't like the characters I get it. It wouldn't be a very good game if you didn't. I happen to like the characters we are introduced to and the amount of content we get in the game outside of just companions. I think they all have distinct personalities that we get exposed to quite a bit in the game and I was using ME1 as the comparison, but I suppose it works for ME2 as well.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 1, 2017 17:09:13 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Somehow i like almost all the teammates from ME2; maybe Kasumi and Jacob are bit boring at some points, but they are still way better than Liam, Cora, Gil, or Suvi. In ME2 many times i got the problem WHO SHOULD I PICK, cause i love so many of them; same problem in Andromeda, but for different reasons....
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Post by RoboticWater on May 1, 2017 17:19:52 GMT
Deth of personality might not be what you are after, because the Andromeda characters are actually far more layers and far deeper than ME2. With the exception of Mordin and Legion, I can agree to some extent. I suppose the distinction might not have come off in my post as strongly as I hoped. I think the fun yet cliched character is a crutch, but a crutch used to good effect in ME2. Like I said, I think BioWare can aim higher with their character writing, but I don't think Andromeda was a step forward in that regard. Part of the problem might be that BioWare still haven't properly integrated the companions' arcs into the central narrative of the game. Just about every RPG, BioWare's included, up to now keeps their companion narratives in this separate space than the rest of the game. Even in ME2 where the recruitment and loyalty missions are the meat of the game, those stories are still essentially unconnected to the central plot and don't always overlap with (or directly enhance) the rest of the game's themes. A short story can construct a compelling character study because its plot is often structured in tandem with the character development and they both feed into each other. This is what makes Mordin and Legion so exceptional: their stories really push forward the central themes of the series, so their character depth can enhance and be enhanced by the depth of the whole narrative. I feel like that didn't happen in Andromeda. I feel like this description is making lofty a fairly simple, and in my opinion, very uncompelling character arc. She just seems like a lot of characters I've seen before, especially in BioWare games. I probably couldn't name a specific person that's exactly like her, but what you just described seems like trope that exists in the BioWare and Joss Whedon-adjacent continuities. I can understand that, but the companions' problems often come off as so subtle that they seem mundane. I'll take superficial fun over boring depth any day.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2017 17:22:36 GMT
How would a non-humanoid companion really work in gameplay anyway?
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 1, 2017 17:23:38 GMT
How would a non-humanoid companion really work in gameplay anyway? Ask EDI.
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Post by kino on May 1, 2017 17:25:16 GMT
Companions is a personal opinion issue. OP even points this out by having a caveat for the two characters he does like. Me? I like all the companions in MEA. I understand what their personal stories are and how their loyalty quests tie in to those stories. I think the writers did a fine job of introducing the characters to a new story arc. PB's romance is no more "in your face" than Liara's, which is fine. I don't have to romance her if I don't wish to. At least with PB I didn't feel like I was ninja'd into the romance.
Weapons/power balance? I didn't see that. I use both. Matter of fact most of the missions or random encounters I couldn't survive through if I didn't use powers to stun/strip shields/crowd control and then finish off with weapons. The thought of approaching a scenario in this game solely using one or the other never even entered my mind.
As for the alien races, most likely scenario would have been to run into nothing more than fungus's and algae. Now that would have led to a damned boring scenario. So other species are a story prop, nothing more, nothing less. They make, in that context, for a damn fine story prop as well.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2017 17:25:47 GMT
How would a non-humanoid companion really work in gameplay anyway? Ask EDI. EDI was never part of the actual gameplay until she became a female android.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 17:31:32 GMT
I can understand that, but the companions' problems often come off as so subtle that they seem mundane. I'll take superficial fun over boring depth any day. And that is precisely what I was driving at with my three-mile long post. And to tell you the truth, Legion is a façade, a face quickly painted on the one f the favorite philosophical themes in the sci-fi, a great take on archtype, just like Minsc, just like HK-47. If they hit the right archtype with SAM, he'd been a hit (with the voice, it could have been the sad/depressed droid like Marvin from Hitchhickers, and so many would have went nuts over it, it's not even funny. Instead, he is carefully neutral)...
Anyway, they went for the attempt to create more complex chars instead of cool archtypes loaded with plot importance (something that DA2 and JE did the best) and it backfired.
So, what I am trying to say, less depth/cooler wrap > more depth wins the hearts. We are able to fill in better for those types of chars.
cheers, folks
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 1, 2017 17:31:33 GMT
EDI was never part of the actual gameplay until she became a female android. Android ? Sexy-bot !
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Post by Sanunes on May 1, 2017 17:32:09 GMT
How would a non-humanoid companion really work in gameplay anyway? I think that really is the crux of the decision making for BioWare. I have no idea what might be involved, but if they had to remove the holster animation to squeeze more into Mass Effect 3 at points, I could see them not wanting to make a bunch of animations that only one race can use.
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