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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 17:41:13 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma.
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Post by SofNascimento on May 1, 2017 17:46:07 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. I believe you're right. I think Drack has a place on the Normandy.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2017 17:55:44 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. I always thought it was kind of ridiculous how Morinth could become a squad member. I wasn't surprised at all to learn how she was disposed of in ME3. I didn't hate Jacob, but what really ruined him was partly FemShep's writing, because she just can't say anything nice to the guy without it getting weird. As much as I like Zaeed and Kasumi, they were rather wasted opportunities both, I thought. They didn't get to say or do much once their missions were over. Miranda was pretty alright in ME2 (I say alright because I wasn't really interested in her genetic engineering), but was ruined by redoing the entire sister plot in ME3.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 17:57:32 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. Jacob was the only halfway "normal" person on a ship full of over-the-top bad@sses.
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 18:07:28 GMT
Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. Jacob was the only halfway "normal" person on a ship full of over-the-top bad@sses. What is your definition of normal? Jacob is a biotic by the way, and even if he was not. What does it have to do with his personality being boring and that he is an extremly forgetable character? Ahsley in the first mass effect was "normal" and she is way better written, not perfect, not the best character but definetely way ahead of jacob. Sokka in the last airbender is "normal" and he is a fully fleshed out character and a well written one, since when being "normal" excuses a character being uninteresting?
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 18:10:18 GMT
Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. I always thought it was kind of ridiculous how Morinth could become a squad member. I wasn't surprised at all to learn how she was disposed of in ME3. Well yeah the part where she take her mother's identity is kinda forced because many companion would be highly unconfortable with a serial killer onboard, there is no way they would have accepted her as morinth especially since she loves special minds to devour and they would have check themselves constantly.
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Post by themikefest on May 1, 2017 18:11:00 GMT
Its too bad Jacob wasn't on the Normandy as a squadmate in ME3. He did something the ME3 squadmates failed to do. He provided cover fire for Shepard. That alone makes him alright in my book.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 18:13:54 GMT
In ME2, imo they were able to introduce the over-the top and love/hate characters because there were so many of them. And the DLCs added three more. So, it was way easier to find those that hit the OMG! LOVE IT! cord with each player.
There is only one flawlessly executed, universally appealing joinable character in the entire MET, and that's Mordin. All others are liked or disliked depending on the player who plays the game, and you can pick them apart or love them to bits etc, like in every other Bio game. Drack is close to Mordin in that it's impossible not to like him, even if you are like me, and hate Krogan. His design just works.
Andromeda's restriction to six characters is more of a flaw in its character design imo than the choice to have these specific blueprints (each character is actually rather interesting, even if you personally do not like his or her shtick; i.e. Jack is no better than Liam in that she is supposed to be hard-core and all she does is cry on your shoulder all game long). But, ME2 suffered from most of its content going into the companions. The games that imo did a better job at creating a cast and where Andromeda could take pointers are Jade Empire (a cast of 8) and Dragon Age 2 (cast of seven). If they have taken chances on expanding the cast to 7-9, they'd have a room to add at least a couple of characters that could risk infuriating a player, but also might win him or her over. Again, the decision to stick to just 4 council races hurt them there as well, because save for Vetra, we got the same old companion race-gender combos, and in a sci-fi game with a bunch of races, novelty does matter.
Sure, ME2 took more shots, but even its hit percentage is better than Andromeda. I found all but one character in ME2 to be at least mildly enjoyable, and of that, I thought most were solid and a select two (Mordin and Legion) that were amazing. Similar with Inquisition, except I think the distribution of quality skews even higher. Andromeda has Drack and then Vetra, and then it falls off sharply from there. And with Jack's shtick, I felt that it fit her character better than it did Liam's. You're right about the character design; I think her punk style made her personality effective in a way that it isn't with Liam. And honestly, we shouldn't even need to grade in relationship to previous games. At this point, I find it more than a little disappointing that BIoWare can't do in tens of hours and hundreds (thousands?) of lines of dialog what a short story can do in mere pages. Companions are what set BioWare apart from the pack more so than just about any other feature, so it's annoying to see them fail to not only reach the heights of their previous games but to push beyond their rather archetypal portrayal of characters. Even though it worked in BioWare's previous games, I don't think the solution needs to be a bigger roster. In fact, I don't even think it should. 6 is a good number, but BioWare need to put more depth into each personality. I went to a YT channel that had recorded all of the banter between companions, both on the Tempest and out in the Nomad. I wanted to listen to all of the different banter and became...so...bored. I didn't get through more than DrackxVetra and started on PeebeexJaal but the dialogue just wasn't that interesting. If these companions had a larger word budget than the largest word budget character from ME3, they should have been more interesting.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 18:19:45 GMT
Jacob was the only halfway "normal" person on a ship full of over-the-top bad@sses. What is your definition of normal? Jacob is a biotic by the way, and even if he was not. What does it have to do with his personality being boring and that he is an extremly forgetable character? Ahsley in the first mass effect was "normal" and she is way better written, not perfect, not the best character but definetely way ahead of jacob. Sokka in the last airbender is "normal" and he is a fully fleshed out character and a well written one, since when being "normal" excuses a character being uninteresting? That's why I said he was halfway normal. What is normal? Easier to say what it's not: A genetically engineered "perfect" human a superassassin who also happened to be a member of an extremely rare species The most powerful human biotic EVAR! the most highly developed geth in the galaxy a quarian princess (and one of the best engineers in a race known for their engineering expertise) A vigilante so bad@ss can single-handedly hold off three merc armies. A scientist so genius he can rewrite the genphage The secret founder of the Blue Suns who has walked away from more explosions than Sylvester Stallone The bested thief in the galaxy! An asari ronin. Face it, thats' what she is (or her vampire succubus daughter) A krogan supersoldier So yeah, an Alliance biotic soldier who managed to survive Eden Prime, foiled a batarian attack on the Citadel, and a former Corsair looks pretty mundane in comparison. He was plenty interesting enough. His biggest problem was carrying over his romance into ME3. And lets face it, ME3 already had problems a-pleenty.
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 18:35:04 GMT
What is your definition of normal? Jacob is a biotic by the way, and even if he was not. What does it have to do with his personality being boring and that he is an extremly forgetable character? Ahsley in the first mass effect was "normal" and she is way better written, not perfect, not the best character but definetely way ahead of jacob. Sokka in the last airbender is "normal" and he is a fully fleshed out character and a well written one, since when being "normal" excuses a character being uninteresting? That's why I said he was halfway normal. What is normal? Easier to say what it's not: A genetically engineered "perfect" human a superassassin who also happened to be a member of an extremely rare species The most powerful human biotic EVAR! the most highly developed geth in the galaxy a quarian princess (and one of the best engineers in a race known for their engineering expertise) A vigilante so bad@ss can single-handedly hold off three merc armies. A scientist so genius he can rewrite the genphage The secret founder of the Blue Suns who has walked away from more explosions than Sylvester Stallone The bested thief in the galaxy! An asari ronin. Face it, thats' what she is (or her vampire succubus daughter) A krogan supersoldier So yeah, an Alliance biotic soldier who managed to survive Eden Prime, foiled a batarian attack on the Citadel, and a former Corsair looks pretty mundane in comparison. He was plenty interesting enough. His biggest problem was carrying over his romance into ME3. And lets face it, ME3 already had problems a-pleenty. Yeah ok he is a good soldier, never said he was not, but that does not make his personality better. Just having mundane accomplishment in a team of legends does not make him interesting simply because its "half normal" and then different than the other squadmates Batman does not have superpower among the justice league and is to me their best character, even if what he does is not as huge as the other heroes like arresting the mobs or small criminals. Compare to saving the world from huge alien like superman that is not as big, but his "normality" or story that happens on a smaller scale does not make him less interesting than the other god like figures of the justice league. Jacob on the other hand, is just boring. The fact that he his half normal does not make him a good chaarcter, you need personality for that, jacob is just uninteresting.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 18:37:16 GMT
Sorry, one more quick point to make before I stop bugging you all with my word count.
The bonding in Andromeda is great, apart from being done backwards.
What I mean is, first you get many banters similar to what two strangers on an over-night train/flight might tell one another about their life of nothing much, and then, in the end of the game, you get AWESOME bonding or loyalty missions.
Imo, they should have front-loaded on the AWESOME part, and dealt with the "char development and expansion" latter, when you are hooked and curious about this guy or that gal.
And, yeah, the first companions used to be the most favorite ones.
Fingers crossed they will stop being shy about it, and write the Gorgeous& Awesome Male and Female leads with epically cool problems to kick the game off next time. Then worry about shades of gray and realism. As cheap as this trick is... it's a videogame.
Bright colors, wide strokes, and lay it on thick. (yeah, my cents are adding up to a buck, and who cares anyway, so...)
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 18:52:41 GMT
That's why I said he was halfway normal. What is normal? Easier to say what it's not: A genetically engineered "perfect" human a superassassin who also happened to be a member of an extremely rare species The most powerful human biotic EVAR! the most highly developed geth in the galaxy a quarian princess (and one of the best engineers in a race known for their engineering expertise) A vigilante so bad@ss can single-handedly hold off three merc armies. A scientist so genius he can rewrite the genphage The secret founder of the Blue Suns who has walked away from more explosions than Sylvester Stallone The bested thief in the galaxy! An asari ronin. Face it, thats' what she is (or her vampire succubus daughter) A krogan supersoldier So yeah, an Alliance biotic soldier who managed to survive Eden Prime, foiled a batarian attack on the Citadel, and a former Corsair looks pretty mundane in comparison. He was plenty interesting enough. His biggest problem was carrying over his romance into ME3. And lets face it, ME3 already had problems a-pleenty. Yeah ok he is a good soldier, never said he was not, but that does not make his personality better. Just having mundane accomplishment in a team of legends does not make him interesting simply because its "half normal" and then different than the other squadmates Batman does not have superpower among the justice league and is to me their best character, even if what he does is not as huge as the other heroes like arresting the mobs or small criminals. Compare to saving the world from huge alien like superman that is not as big, but his "normality" or story that happens on a smaller scale does not make him less interesting than the other god like figures of the justice league. Jacob on the other hand, is just boring. The fact that he his half normal does not make him a good chaarcter, you need personality for that, jacob is just uninteresting. Jacob was a good soldier frustrated by bureaucracy and complacency. He's just a guy trying to do the right thing. That makes him relatable. Heck that makes him not much different from Garrus! Andyeah, Batman is a good example. Superman foiling some bank robbers is boring, unless they have kryptonite or magic at their disposal. Because, face it, ordinary bank robbers aren't going to be much challenge to the guy who's bulletproof. Batman, however, isn't. He's a great athlete, detective, and has access to all sorts of technical gizmos. But he's still just a guy in a suit. He can get hurt, even by ordinary bullets. There's tension in that fight because a moment of distraction, an error on his part, or just bad luck on his part could prove dangerous for him.
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 19:04:35 GMT
Yeah ok he is a good soldier, never said he was not, but that does not make his personality better. Just having mundane accomplishment in a team of legends does not make him interesting simply because its "half normal" and then different than the other squadmates Batman does not have superpower among the justice league and is to me their best character, even if what he does is not as huge as the other heroes like arresting the mobs or small criminals. Compare to saving the world from huge alien like superman that is not as big, but his "normality" or story that happens on a smaller scale does not make him less interesting than the other god like figures of the justice league. Jacob on the other hand, is just boring. The fact that he his half normal does not make him a good chaarcter, you need personality for that, jacob is just uninteresting. Jacob was a good soldier frustrated by bureaucracy and complacency. He's just a guy trying to do the right thing. That makes him relatable. Heck that makes him not much different from Garrus! Andyeah, Batman is a good example. Superman foiling some bank robbers is boring, unless they have kryptonite or magic at their disposal. Because, face it, ordinary bank robbers aren't going to be much challenge to the guy who's bulletproof. Batman, however, isn't. He's a great athlete, detective, and has access to all sorts of technical gizmos. But he's still just a guy in a suit. He can get hurt, even by ordinary bullets. There's tension in that fight because a moment of distraction, an error on his part, or just bad luck on his part could prove dangerous for him. So basically its a reash of garrus of ME 1 pre archangel, but bad, garrus was also was trying to do the right thing and was tired of the bureaucracy that was obstructive. But Garrus at least had good conversation about the extreme you should go to stop villains and ennemies, jacob does not have any of that, its barely conversation about him, his past, his father and whatever happens and none of them were interesting. Generic is the best term to descibe him. Since when , "trying to do the right thing" makes people interesting? The fairy in ferngully tried to do the right thing and she is still an incredibly boring character to the point we root for the villain. Being boring does not make anyone relatable. By the way I was comparing batman's accomplishment to superman's accomplishments, it had nothing to do with power. In comics, supermans fights monster more often because they are more of a threat to him, bank robbers and little criminal he do fights them from time to time but that is minimal. That's why he needs stronger ennemies that are a danger to him, so there is just as much tension in fights because the danger is way higher for him.
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Post by timebean on May 1, 2017 19:06:54 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to just interject some of my own thoughts to counteract. I thoroughly enjoy the game. I can't speak to the multiplayer component because I'll likely never play it. 1. Companions. I actually think Vetra is one of the more boring companions. However, go back and watch some Youtube videos of interacting with your characters in ME1. I've said this in other posts, but I think most people are thinking of the character interactions in ME3, where we had three full games of reference point to like these characters. Garrus, specifically, in ME1, was a very boring flat character. He was an ex-cop, disillusioned and depressed that it wasn't a great job. That's it. All he ever talks about is his time at C-Sec and that he was frustrated by red tape. It's not until ME2 he develops more personality that continues to build into ME3. I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. Well said! I am so tired of the "you can't compare three games to 1 game" defense. 1) If Bioware didn't want us to do that, then they shouldn't have put Mass Effect in the fracking title. 2) The only reason I played ME2 and ME3 was because I liked the story and characters in ME1. If they sucked so bad, then why did anyone bother with the next two games? I seriously doubt I will play MEA 2 (unless it gets some utterly amazing reviews). Why? Cause the story and characters in MEA were juvenile and boring. 3) Mordin and Thane and Legion...3 amazing and popular characters, all introduced in ME2. I loved them all then and there. I did not need anything that happened in ME3 (ie, all three of them dying ) to solidify my like of those 3 characters. My replays of ME2 prior to the release of ME3 can attest to this. But, I guess we are all just idiots who don't remember what we actually liked and disliked about the individual games when we played them. I can't argue with the "rose-colored glasses" defense of this shitty game. And if you try to compare this shitty game to other amazing games, people freak out about that too and say it is unfair. All I can say is, for myself (ie, my own dipshit opinion that I am not forcing on anyone else), and without comparing MEA's characters to either the previous ME games OR to other games, I thought they were dull. Utterly charmless and dull. ...expect for Drack...
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Post by erikson on May 1, 2017 19:08:48 GMT
I write this 'review' of sorts having finished the Single Player and now playing Multiplayer almost exclusively (well, what can I say, it IS fun, when it works). However, aside from the animations issues that everyone complained about (which, strangely, I never encountered) there's other problems I find with Mass Effect Andromeda that I would like to hopefully bring up. So, without further ado; I will start with the most constant one; the companions (bar Vetra and Dreck) are AGGRAVATING. We have Cora, a commando with no grasp of the concept of FUBAR and zero adaptability. We have Liam Costa, a 'crisis specialist' who creates more issues than he solves. Then we have PB, who's romance is shoved on our faces with all the grace of a warhammer -but I can't help but feel like a pedophile every time it comes up because of how childishly she acts. I mean, seriously, she calls herself a 'scientist' but considers it a 'plan' to eject an escape pod from the Tempest at terminal velocity towards a volcano. Jaal is a self-righteous moron who believes the Angara can do no wrong. Of course not Jaal, the Angara are saints, they must all have SOME reason for wanting to shoot the one guy in the cluster who has repeatedly saved them. No, really. The companions feel like caricatures with 'traits' thrown on them by someone who just openened up TVTropes and chose a bunch of random tropes, stuck them on and said 'neeeext!'. Even Ashley (from the original trilogy) had more personality than them. Next is the weapons/powers balance. Or rather the lack thereof. Weapons VASTLY outshine powers in the game. While, yes, I do agree that Ryder is NOT a hero (like Shepard, he was a proven War Hero by the START of the trilogy and a legend by the end) but that doesn't justify having this much of a difference. Even combos are really not all that useful. Handy, yes, nifty, sure. But when it comes down to it, my PAW is FAR more effective at tearing through opposition than my three powers. By far the most important problem with the game is the LACK OF IMAGINATION. You mean to tell me, we crossed DarkSpace, went to a COMPLETELY different GALAXY... and both sentient alien species we meet are; bipedal humanoids, with eyes, noses and a mouth, utilize weaponry that is compatible with humans, there's large lizards and mushrooms and trees... Are you KIDDING me? The first trilogy had more of a varietion on the aliens; the Hanar, the Elcor. Those were DIFFERENT. They were UNIQUE. They were IMAGINATIVE. All the Kett and Angara feel like is a damn SKIN SWAP. Seriously? You could have done ANYTHING you thought of with the ability to have 'brand new species' and you want to tell me NONE of those responcible of artistic creation so much as looked at a Spore video? You could have had metallic plants and rocky fungi, aliens that are part gas or work in hive-like states (as inspired for example by the ocean-dwelling organism called a 'Man-o-War'). Colors, textures, everything could have been tweaked and moved about. Heck, you could have at least asked Neil DeGrasse Tyson (or any biologist) for ideas and they would have given you at least the basis of an idea for a more creative, but realistic, species. Honestly, I feel gypped with this. Finally; the Multiplayer is FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH ISSUES. Constant crashes, enemies that are absurdly tough (do I really need to empty half my Revenant magazine on a Raider to kill him? -not that I don't enjoy the challenge), there's lag, no ability to converse with teammates without VoIP, no actual Friends List (and don't even START me on the 'Origin In-Game', because it increases my ping by about 400ms every time I turn it on). For crying out loud; at least fix the crashes, I'm sick and tired of losing stuff because of this. That said the game is NOT bad. It has great combat feel (again, there's the fact that Ryder isn't a 'war veteran', he's an explorer, and a new one at that, so we can't expect him to be a one-man-army). Love the jetpack and individual power cooldown, the crafting's cool, loads of lore and quests to keep us invested, the Nomad's fun to just drive around the sites etc. I'd have loved taking part in a space battle (who wouldn't) but hey, exploration force, having frigates and the like probably wasn't the first thing in their minds. Hoping to see that in the next installment. Here's my advice; fix the known bugs, add creativity. More importantly; when the second installement comes, make its multiplayer compatible with this one so, even if you can't buy the second game, you can still play and enjoy it. Thank you for reading. Despite my misgivings, I enjoyed the game and do not regret buying it. I just have a hard time enjoying it to the maximum, as it should be -and I do believe that companies as large as Bioware and EA should provide better content. Pebee's romance is forced in our face? Hmmm...not like Kaiden's at all then, or Anders in DA2, both of those guys you have to beat off with a stick to avoid. She behaves like a young woman with emotions, not a child. She is an enthusiastic explorer, not a tenured professor. To a degree I get the feeling that people just can't get past that this is not Space Marines in space doing space military stuff anymore. It's kind of more Like Lost in Space than Starship Troopers. It's fine if that isn't something you like, but that is just a matter of preference, not a substantive critique. I must admit, I don't get the issue with the Anagara. Is it that they are more or less like every other species we have seen in the series so far? What did you expect, five foot jello molds? And you bringing up a species like the Hanar doesn't work, because nobody gives a shit about the Hanar. You can't create a new species for people to grow warm to if they look like a glowing cist with tentacles. Do people really want the Angara to be Lovecraftian eldritch monsters? I would make changes to them myself, but that is based merely on my own preferences, otherwise they are basically what I expected to get. They are in line with what we see in 90% of scifi, from Star Trek to Star Wars to Green Lantern to Guardians of the Galaxy. Most scifi is about the human condition, and how that is reflected back to us through imaginary alien races and cultures, which is hard to accomplish if they species looks like fungus monster. If you have an issue with that you have an issue with most of the genre outside of a small niche, mostly horror related, part of it. I do agree, some of the planets could have had more variety to them, but as this is a new team just familiarizing themselves with a new game engine. I hope they can improve in that area next go around. The game has issues with, of course, it's bugs and animations, but also with pacing issues surrounding the side content. It's characters and alien races, are, at least for me, not a problem.
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 19:20:57 GMT
I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. Well said! I am so tired of the "you can't compare three games to 1 game" defense. 1) If Bioware didn't want us to do that, then they shouldn't have put Mass Effect in the fracking title. 2) The only reason I played ME2 and ME3 was because I liked the story and characters in ME1. If they sucked so bad, then why did anyone bother with the next two games? I seriously doubt I will play MEA 2 (unless it gets some utterly amazing reviews). Why? Cause the story and characters in MEA were juvenile and boring. 3) Mordin and Thane and Legion...3 amazing and popular characters, all introduced in ME2. I loved them all then and there. I did not need anything that happened in ME3 (ie, all three of them dying ) to solidify my like of those 3 characters. My replays of ME2 prior to the release of ME3 can attest to this. But, I guess we are all just idiots who don't remember what we actually liked and disliked about the individual games when we played them. I can't argue with the "rose-colored glasses" defense of this shitty game. And if you try to compare this shitty game to other amazing games, people freak out about that too and say it is unfair. All I can say is, for myself (ie, my own dipshit opinion that I am not forcing on anyone else), and without comparing MEA's characters to either the previous ME games OR to other games, I thought they were dull. Utterly charmless and dull. ...expect for Drack... The difference is just that when you compare squadmates from MET to a MEA, what needs to be done is to compare the companion of MET when they only had their development on one game for the comparison to be fair. For exemple : If you say tali is better than jaal, just because we have seen the tragedy of her characters, her losing her father and becoming admiral and having a hard time dealing with this responsability. That is unfair because she had 3 games of character development while jaal just had one, and did not have has much chance to shine or evolve throufht different periods of time. On the other hand, if you say that you think liara from ME 1 is better than peebee, without taking into account her becoming the shadow broker and yet having a darker personality, retrieving shepard's body after is death and her relationship with ther father. I would not agree but that is totally fine, nevertheless the comparison needs to take into account the amount of screen time and development they had the chance to get.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 19:23:28 GMT
I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. Well said! I am so tired of the "you can't compare three games to 1 game" defense. 1) If Bioware didn't want us to do that, then they shouldn't have put Mass Effect in the fracking title. 2) The only reason I played ME2 and ME3 was because I liked the story and characters in ME1. If they sucked so bad, then why did anyone bother with the next two games? I seriously doubt I will play MEA 2 (unless it gets some utterly amazing reviews). Why? Cause the story and characters in MEA were juvenile and boring. 3) Mordin and Thane and Legion...3 amazing and popular characters, all introduced in ME2. I loved them all then and there. I did not need anything that happened in ME3 (ie, all three of them dying ) to solidify my like of those 3 characters. My replays of ME2 prior to the release of ME3 can attest to this. But, I guess we are all just idiots who don't remember what we actually liked and disliked about the individual games when we played them. I can't argue with the "rose-colored glasses" defense of this shitty game. And if you try to compare this shitty game to other amazing games, people freak out about that too and say it is unfair. All I can say is, for myself (ie, my own dipshit opinion that I am not forcing on anyone else), and without comparing MEA's characters to either the previous ME games OR to other games, I thought they were dull. Utterly charmless and dull. ...expect for Drack... Ashley Williams in ME1 was one of the most fascinating characters in the entire series.
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 19:27:22 GMT
Jacob was a good soldier frustrated by bureaucracy and complacency. He's just a guy trying to do the right thing. That makes him relatable. Heck that makes him not much different from Garrus! Andyeah, Batman is a good example. Superman foiling some bank robbers is boring, unless they have kryptonite or magic at their disposal. Because, face it, ordinary bank robbers aren't going to be much challenge to the guy who's bulletproof. Batman, however, isn't. He's a great athlete, detective, and has access to all sorts of technical gizmos. But he's still just a guy in a suit. He can get hurt, even by ordinary bullets. There's tension in that fight because a moment of distraction, an error on his part, or just bad luck on his part could prove dangerous for him. So basically its a reash of garrus of ME 1 pre archangel, but bad, garrus was also was trying to do the right thing and was tired of the bureaucracy that was obstructive. But Garrus at least had good conversation about the extreme you should go to stop villains and ennemies, jacob does not have any of that, its barely conversation about him, his past, his father and whatever happens and none of them were interesting. Generic is the best term to descibe him. Since when , "trying to do the right thing" makes people interesting? The fairy in ferngully tried to do the right thing and she is still an incredibly boring character to the point we root for the villain. Being boring does not make anyone relatable. By the way I was comparing batman's accomplishment to superman's accomplishments, it had nothing to do with power. In comics, supermans fights monster more often because they are more of a threat to him, bank robbers and little criminal he do fights them from time to time but that is minimal. That's why he needs stronger ennemies that are a danger to him, so there is just as much tension in fights because the danger is way higher for him. I wanted to hear more about his time with the Corsairs. At least he didn't blow me off with "calibrations" "Trying to do the right thing" is the basis for a lot of interesting characters. Good and bad. Your entire argument against Jacob is "he's boring" You never said what is boring about him.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 19:42:27 GMT
So basically its a reash of garrus of ME 1 pre archangel, but bad, garrus was also was trying to do the right thing and was tired of the bureaucracy that was obstructive. But Garrus at least had good conversation about the extreme you should go to stop villains and ennemies, jacob does not have any of that, its barely conversation about him, his past, his father and whatever happens and none of them were interesting. Generic is the best term to descibe him. Since when , "trying to do the right thing" makes people interesting? The fairy in ferngully tried to do the right thing and she is still an incredibly boring character to the point we root for the villain. Being boring does not make anyone relatable. By the way I was comparing batman's accomplishment to superman's accomplishments, it had nothing to do with power. In comics, supermans fights monster more often because they are more of a threat to him, bank robbers and little criminal he do fights them from time to time but that is minimal. That's why he needs stronger ennemies that are a danger to him, so there is just as much tension in fights because the danger is way higher for him. I wanted to hear more about his time with the Corsairs. At least he didn't blow me off with "calibrations" "Trying to do the right thing" is the basis for a lot of interesting characters. Good and bad. Your entire argument against Jacob is "he's boring" You never said what is boring about him. He does not look as cool as Garrus. Turians look great, and Jacob is not an exceptionally attractive human. Or a crazy cool looking human. Jacob does not have an introduction of sheer almost unbelievable magnificence that Garrus gets in ME2 or a cool nickname. Jacob does not hang on every word PC utters and bonds no matter what; he actually moves on and lives a normal life, trying to save his pregnant girlfriend, while Garrus just generically fights bravely and labors to help Shepard in secret. Generic assumed awesomeness > mundane details. Garrus mission is the one of awesome revenge. Jacob's mission is discovering his dad ran an utterly disgusting slave settlement. Same character, cool wrap for Garrus the "realistic" "deep" one for Jacob. So Garrus becomes that awesome vigilante, the best bud and the leading man #1, while Jacob is a door mat that men despise and all girls avoid like the plague. That's the power of packaging and selling the same basic product, and that's exactly where Andromeda miscalculated, that need for bright, cool and awesome at least in some characters. The love at first sight types vs need to work hard to come to like eventually.
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 1, 2017 19:45:15 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to just interject some of my own thoughts to counteract. I thoroughly enjoy the game. I can't speak to the multiplayer component because I'll likely never play it. 1. Companions. I actually think Vetra is one of the more boring companions. However, go back and watch some Youtube videos of interacting with your characters in ME1. I've said this in other posts, but I think most people are thinking of the character interactions in ME3, where we had three full games of reference point to like these characters. Garrus, specifically, in ME1, was a very boring flat character. He was an ex-cop, disillusioned and depressed that it wasn't a great job. That's it. All he ever talks about is his time at C-Sec and that he was frustrated by red tape. It's not until ME2 he develops more personality that continues to build into ME3. I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. In ME1 every companion is pretty much a talking exposition dump for their race, class, politics, and etc in the ME Universe Garrus and Wrex are the best written because it's not turains and krogan it's their personal experiences and lives up to that point. Liara is easily my favorite LI in the MET but to be brutally honest if she wasn't a bisexual romance option I really doubt she would be as popular talk to her after you rescue her and after each mission her dialogue is limited and then it's back to asari and her mother. Tali is IMHO the worst written character in ME1 all she ever talks about is the quarians and the geth and it's not helped that the VA can't make a bunch of technobabble sound interesting, I mean there have been times when I would start to nod off listening to Tali's boring dialogue. In Andromeda I do understand where Vetra, Peebee, Drack, Cora, Jaal, Liam, Suvi, Kallo, Gil, SAM, and Lexi are about and I'm certainly not bored by most of their dialogue and/or VAs, which is something I can't honestly say about some of the companions of the MET. Character wise I understand what makes the crew of Tempest tick in one game where I needed two games not to be bored out of my mind listening to long winded exposition dumps and end up only to need to understand basically just a pair of companions (Tali and Garrus) in ME2 and ME3 and what the rest are up to.
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Post by zeypher on May 1, 2017 19:46:33 GMT
The worst ME2 teammate is at least as good as the best MEA teammate. Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. Now i wonder who will write Drack as the writers who worked on him already left Bioware. Ann Lemay and Ben Gelinas both left.
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Post by malgus on May 1, 2017 19:51:05 GMT
So basically its a reash of garrus of ME 1 pre archangel, but bad, garrus was also was trying to do the right thing and was tired of the bureaucracy that was obstructive. But Garrus at least had good conversation about the extreme you should go to stop villains and ennemies, jacob does not have any of that, its barely conversation about him, his past, his father and whatever happens and none of them were interesting. Generic is the best term to descibe him. Since when , "trying to do the right thing" makes people interesting? The fairy in ferngully tried to do the right thing and she is still an incredibly boring character to the point we root for the villain. Being boring does not make anyone relatable. By the way I was comparing batman's accomplishment to superman's accomplishments, it had nothing to do with power. In comics, supermans fights monster more often because they are more of a threat to him, bank robbers and little criminal he do fights them from time to time but that is minimal. That's why he needs stronger ennemies that are a danger to him, so there is just as much tension in fights because the danger is way higher for him. I wanted to hear more about his time with the Corsairs. At least he didn't blow me off with "calibrations" "Trying to do the right thing" is the basis for a lot of interesting characters. Good and bad. Your entire argument against Jacob is "he's boring" You never said what is boring about him. Oh yeah, grunt is not trying to do the right thing and he is very interesting, so no that is not the basis. Corsair might have been interesting, if he actually developped something on it, he did not. So his backstory is kinda useless, by the way I don,t care about the mobile game about the batarian terrorist because he summarize the plot in one sentence and its nevers spoken again, neither does it make for character development. So yeah is backstory is kinda generic. Contrary to the one of thane who has a very good backstory that totally ties in to his character, heck even zaeed and kasumi who don,t have real cinematic conversation have more interesting backstory to tell than jacob. Besides, Taylor is just bland, nothing he says in his conversation is memorable. I replayed Mass effect 2 fifteen times and I have more memories of Diana allers interview than I had the conversation of jacob, allers is still the worst character due to her voice acting and well, the fact that she replace the well written emily wrong. But jacob is so bland that I barely remember anything from it, I don't hate him, he is just so forgetable, even anders that I hated from DA 2 I remember something of him, Jacob did not leave anything to the table.
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Post by liquidsnake on May 1, 2017 19:51:56 GMT
I don't think I'll ever get this defense. No, Mass Effect didn't have the best characters in the series, but it wasn't because it was the first, it was because the character's weren't written very well. They were mainly glorified codex entries with token character traits. However, if we look at Mass Effect 2, it has some of the best character interactions in the series, and most of them were with characters introduced in that very game. Mordin, Legion, Jack, Grunt, and Samara were all were all well written (some more than others, obviously) additions to the team. Hell, even James was pretty good when you got to know him. Of course Andromeda's cast isn't reaching the heights of ME3, but they're not even on par with the noobies in ME2. That's the problem. Apparently, each companion has more dialog than any individual companion in the trilogy (at least, I think that was a statistic BioWare threw out), but that doesn't seem to matter. Not enough of it is put to good use. Well said! I am so tired of the "you can't compare three games to 1 game" defense. 1) If Bioware didn't want us to do that, then they shouldn't have put Mass Effect in the fracking title. 2) The only reason I played ME2 and ME3 was because I liked the story and characters in ME1. If they sucked so bad, then why did anyone bother with the next two games? I seriously doubt I will play MEA 2 (unless it gets some utterly amazing reviews). Why? Cause the story and characters in MEA were juvenile and boring. 3) Mordin and Thane and Legion...3 amazing and popular characters, all introduced in ME2. I loved them all then and there. I did not need anything that happened in ME3 (ie, all three of them dying ) to solidify my like of those 3 characters. My replays of ME2 prior to the release of ME3 can attest to this. But, I guess we are all just idiots who don't remember what we actually liked and disliked about the individual games when we played them. I can't argue with the "rose-colored glasses" defense of this shitty game. And if you try to compare this shitty game to other amazing games, people freak out about that too and say it is unfair. All I can say is, for myself (ie, my own dipshit opinion that I am not forcing on anyone else), and without comparing MEA's characters to either the previous ME games OR to other games, I thought they were dull. Utterly charmless and dull. ...expect for Drack... Fine for me but not for thee, huh? I never said you CAN'T compare characters from the trilogy to MEA, but for goodness sake do it fairly. The only fair comparison, if you'd read my other post, is between ME1 and MEA. You can't compare ME2 to MEA.. Well I suppose that you COULD but like I said in my other post, the entirety of the game of Mass Effect 2 is about building the massive roster of characters and developing them. No other ME game is like it. The actual "story" of ME2 is very minimal. It's ALL about the characters. ME1, ME3 and MEA have character development that is balanced in the midst of the games broad story and other things going on. The characters are a huge component but not the entire game's focus like ME2. I also never said you can't have an opinion so your over the top aggression isn't necessary. You can hate the game all you want, but isn't it fair to have a balancing act in posting? Or are the people who hate the game the only ones allowed to express their opinions? Also, I never said anyone doesn't know why they like the original games. In fact, I said I was a big fan myself. I like the characters in ME1. I liked the whole squad, including Kaiden who I left to die on Virmire. What I SAID was that objectively speaking, more time is spent in MEA building and developing layered characters with the most content available amongst all the other things going on. The characters in MEA are a big focus for depth and content, including "loyalty" missions, follow up missions, chatting on ports of worlds AND Citadel-esque Movie Night (which I haven't played yet, but know exists). That all didn't exist in ME1 yet because it wasn't a huge focus of Bioware. I'm saying if you are comparing MEA to the original trilogy, it's ridiculous to compare MEA to the entire trilogy as a whole. Of course MEA is going to come out behind. It's not three games worth of emotional investment and hours spent. However, go about your life. If that's how you respond again, I won't reply to you because your anger is completely unjustified. If you feel like responding again, just be constructive please.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2017 19:57:57 GMT
Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. Now i wonder who will write Drack as the writers who worked on him already left Bioware. Ann Lemay and Ben Gelinas both left. A sensible solution would be to get rid of him entirely. I love Drack, but I think his character really said all he needed to in this game. Heck I'd even have him go out in a blaze of glory somehow in the first half of the next game (maybe even sooner, like in an expansion).
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 19:59:38 GMT
Not even in a million years, jacob was an incredibly bad character, boring and forgetable, he is for me the worst companion ever, maybe except for morinth, that backstabing serial killing bitch. Drack on the other hand is just so cool and full of charisma. Now i wonder who will write Drack as the writers who worked on him already left Bioware. Ann Lemay and Ben Gelinas both left. That's not really a big deal. Replicating is fine. It's what they do with the less successful first impressions characters or what they will bring in as replacements that matters.
My prediction is that Liam and Cora will be replaced. Hopefully with something more along the line of gorgeous & awesome, the best humanity has to offer. I would rather they did not try to salvage those two. It's too hard to soup them up now. New would be better. Hells, Reyes stands ready to replace Liam, and it would be a great trade.
Peebee can be fixed, b/c I can see many folks buying into her maturing and becoming prettier, like Ashley and Kaiden transformation in ME3.
Vetra needs not to change, just get more interesting and cooler subplots along the lines of thrill-seeking and x-treme stuff, rather than sister (don't d another Miranda's sister, pls)
Jaal... gods, I hope he gets replaced or added to, because he is both curious and boring as our resident Angara on the team.
That, at least is a good part of the cast being that small.
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