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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 23:15:34 GMT
Not being able to be renegade is now streamlining? Well, kinda. It creates a clearer definition of the character's personality. An example, take Max in LiS. You can make various decisions and shift the character's morality about, but Max's personality remains fairly intact. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Personally, makes no sense that people would want to be around someone or be lead by someone stuck in super asshole mode.
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Post by erikson on May 3, 2017 23:16:52 GMT
Sometimes after reading this topic i got the feeling, that no matter what BioWare will do about are characters, no matter how limited they become - some people will always be happy with that. Even if in the next game we will have only a female character available, probably many people in here will justify that. Just face it, some people don't like the same things as you do. The whole world is not just you looking at yourself in a mirror. I can accept that you are different than me, so why can't you do the same?
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Post by erikson on May 3, 2017 23:17:36 GMT
. Even if in the next game we will have only a female character available, probably many people in here will justify that. BTW, I've never played a BW game any other way, so yeah.
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Post by vonuber on May 3, 2017 23:30:16 GMT
. Even if in the next game we will have only a female character available, probably many people in here will justify that. I suspect that it would probably not be as many as those who would justify it if it was male only.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 3, 2017 23:32:04 GMT
Got annoyed that I couldn't get back in Addison's face the way she got in my face. I remember in the trilogy when Udina or Sparatus gave Shepard crap Shepard could give it right back. I remember being near a comm buoy and having Joker ring up the Council. I'd listen to them. Then, Sparatus would make one of his racist comments and I'd hit that disconnect button. Never felt bad about it. What's odd, though, is that Shepard was never fired or reprimanded for it. Ryder is actually in a better position. The special SAM implant can't be removed without risking Ryder's life. SAM might not be okay with that, especially having been emotionally(?) attached to Alec and then the twins. They might have to do without a human pathfinder if choosing to remove Ryder from the position. And, given how advanced the Hyperion SAM is, perhaps he could even influence the other SAMs.
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Post by themikefest on May 3, 2017 23:34:36 GMT
You can put any character in that and the issue would be the same result. Zaeed could pull an actually gun on Shepard and threaten to kill them and Shepard could do jack because the sc mission was not done yet and the plot did not allow it. Sorry but ME never was a murder knife game. What were you expecting? Shepard can point a gun right back at Zaeed. The suicide mission has nothing to do with that. Zaeed can die on his loyalty mission, which only happens after the sucide mission, and that only happens if the right choices are made during the mission and dialogue are chosen
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 23:38:30 GMT
You can put any character in that and the issue would be the same result. Zaeed could pull an actually gun on Shepard and threaten to kill them and Shepard could do jack because the sc mission was not done yet and the plot did not allow it. Sorry but ME never was a murder knife game. What were you expecting? Shepard can point a gun right back at Zaeed. The suicide mission has nothing to do with that. Zaeed can die on his loyalty mission, which only happens after the sucide mission, and that only happens if the right choices are made during the mission and dialogue are chosen 1. that was scripted not roleplaying. 2.pull a gun means nothing if you can't do anything with it. 3.Do people not read this? " Shepard could not do jack because the sc mission was not done yet" ....Sc meaning suicide mission.
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Post by cypherj on May 3, 2017 23:41:10 GMT
Got annoyed that I couldn't get back in Addison's face the way she got in my face. I remember in the trilogy when Udina or Sparatus gave Shepard crap Shepard could give it right back. Yeah, you were forced to put up with too much blatant disrespect from Tann and Addison particularly. How they demeaned your accomplishments or acted like it was just beginners luck, or you'll need to do more than this to be taken seriously. It was just ridiculous. I just wanted Ryder to be able to tell them to shut the fuck up, you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Or tell them, they may not like how I became Pathfinder, but I am now, and their attitudes aren't helping, they're making the job harder. Either support me or get out my way. Something. But no, you just had to sit and take it. The scene where Tann shuts you and the Salarian Pathfinder down had me almost ready to turn the game off. Where are the days of, I can get the council on the line, should I patch them through. Hell No, I don't want to be bothered.
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 23:45:24 GMT
Got annoyed that I couldn't get back in Addison's face the way she got in my face. I remember in the trilogy when Udina or Sparatus gave Shepard crap Shepard could give it right back. Yeah, you were forced to put up with too much blatant disrespect from Tann and Addison particularly. How they demeaned your accomplishments or acted like it was just beginners luck, or you'll need to do more than this to be taken seriously. It was just ridiculous. I just wanted Ryder to be able to tell them to shut the fuck up, you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Or tell them, they may not like how I became Pathfinder, but I am now, and their attitudes aren't helping, they're making the job harder. Either support me or get out my way. Something. But no, you just had to sit and take it. The scene where Tann shuts you and the Salarian Pathfinder down had me almost ready to turn the game off. wait Addison is one thing but Tann is just a bootlicker that's cliging to power. You can call him out on his crap and curse at him...he just rolls with the punches. He's too spinless to get in your face and too ready to ride on your coat tail of you success. you say he disrespects you i ask when? Only time that he does stand his ground is when there is a legitimate risk and even then when you are done he just rides your coat tails again.
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Post by themikefest on May 3, 2017 23:46:22 GMT
1. that was scripted not roleplaying. Doesn't matter. Shepard was able to point a gun at Zaeed. You said he/she couldn't do jack, yet Shepard did regardless if it was scripted Zaeed never pointed his weapon at Shepard during the game. The only time that happens is during his loyalty mission
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Post by dmc1001 on May 3, 2017 23:46:35 GMT
The scene where Tann shuts you and the Salarian Pathfinder down had me almost ready to turn the game off. Where are the days of, I can get the council on the line, should I patch them through. Hell No, I don't want to be bothered. Sure, maybe they didn't outright tell Tann to go screw himself but they still plotted to go directly against his orders. Cora actually raises that point when Ryder mentions they're going to Meridian. Then Tann realized he'd been wrong. Ryder did the equivalent of what Shepard did in stealing the Normandy to go to Ilos.
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 23:52:32 GMT
1. that was scripted not roleplaying. Doesn't matter. Shepard was able to point a gun at Zaeed. You said he/she couldn't do jack, yet Shepard did regardless if it was scripted Zaeed never pointed his weapon at Shepard during the game. The only time that happens is during his loyalty mission 1. Yes it does. the issue of the complaint is the limit of roleplaying. And you use an explain of what is not done that was limited is an action of limiting roleplaying. 2.Oh may god.....How in dear lord do you not get that i was referencing that? I post "Zaeed could pull an actually gun on Shepard and threaten to kill them and Shepard couldn't do jack because the sc mission was not done yet and the plot did not allow it." And some how you think I'm not talking about his loyalty mission which is the only time he does it.
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Post by dreman999 on May 3, 2017 23:54:00 GMT
2.pull a gun means nothing if you can't do anything with it. Wow, we've reach a whole new level of homicidal fantasy from the local commentariat. It doesn't count if I turn a gun on a guy if I can't blow off his head. You do understand I'm taking about a scripted event where the play has no control over Shepard at all right?
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Post by cypherj on May 4, 2017 0:00:50 GMT
Yeah, you were forced to put up with too much blatant disrespect from Tann and Addison particularly. How they demeaned your accomplishments or acted like it was just beginners luck, or you'll need to do more than this to be taken seriously. It was just ridiculous. I just wanted Ryder to be able to tell them to shut the fuck up, you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Or tell them, they may not like how I became Pathfinder, but I am now, and their attitudes aren't helping, they're making the job harder. Either support me or get out my way. Something. But no, you just had to sit and take it. The scene where Tann shuts you and the Salarian Pathfinder down had me almost ready to turn the game off. wait Addison is one thing but Tann is just a bootlicker that's cliging to power. You can call him out on his crap and curse at him...he just rolls with the punches. He's too spinless to get in your face and too ready to ride on your coat tail of you success. you say he disrespects you i ask when? Only time that he does stand his ground is when there is a legitimate risk and even then when you are done he just rides your coat tails again. It's my job to make bets on people, so work out, some.... The last some being you, that don't work out.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 4, 2017 0:01:32 GMT
No thanks. I'm not interested in playing Shepard 2.0. I've already played Shepard, three times. Ryder's story is more about becoming a Pathfinder, not already being a space hero. Shouldn't be Shepard, just more badass I think. I also appreciate the fact that Ryder can't be a natural leader yet (and shouldn't be), but more balls would be nice. Maybe even stupid youthful reckless balls. Like telling Sloane off to her face and disarming Kaetus? Or getting into a bar brawl with Drack? Maybe going to Meridian against direct orders not to do so? Promotion of visiting Kadara Port while Tann is telling people to avoid it? Allowing Knight and Sloane to be assassinated? Letting Aroane be dropped into a bottomless pit? Ryder isn't Shepard. Whether or not Ryder could grow into a similar role is not the point. Ryder has a set background and the personality grows out of it. It's not like being an Earthborn Butcher of Torfan (though I've done that and played Paragon anyway). If Ryder isn't shooting allies in the back because they disagree with him it's because his role is to make things better not worse. You could argue that the seriousness of Shepard's missions allowed for more extreme measures but the same can't be said for Ryder. As I said, he could possibly grow into that role but at 22 and being forced into a role he didn't expect, it's taking some time to find his feet. I'd say the major win at the end of MEA would give him a confidence boost and should help him grow should BioWare choose to put him in MEA2.
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Post by erikson on May 4, 2017 0:03:55 GMT
Wow, we've reach a whole new level of homicidal fantasy from the local commentariat. It doesn't count if I turn a gun on a guy if I can't blow off his head. You do understand I'm taking about a scripted event where the play has no control over Shepard at all right? It occurs during a paragon run of the scene, that is a choice (unless actually manually pointing the gun is all you care about in the scene). I assume if you let the rifinery blow up it does not occur. addendum: having read more of your posts I see better what you were saying, I still say this is a choice, but I apologize for the implications in my last post. mea culpa
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Post by dreman999 on May 4, 2017 0:09:58 GMT
You do understand I'm taking about a scripted event where the play has no control over Shepard at all right? It occurs during a paragon run of the scene, that is a choice (unless actually manually pointing the gun is all you care about in the scene). I assume if you let the rifinery blow up it does not occur. Not leaving the factory works behind to die is the only way for it to happen but still Shepard pulls the gun with no player input what so ever. My comment was a counter to someone saying that a scripted action was Shepard doing something about Zaeed pull a gun on him ignoring the point that I made that you could not kick him off the ship for doing that unless you do the mission after the suicide mission.
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2017 0:10:19 GMT
Shepard can point a gun right back at Zaeed. The suicide mission has nothing to do with that. Zaeed can die on his loyalty mission, which only happens after the suicide mission, and that only happens if the right choices are made during the mission and dialogue are chosen 1. Yes it does. the issue of the complaint is the limit of roleplaying. And you use an explain of what is not done that was limited is an action of limiting roleplaying. Can you explain what you mean by "and you use an explain"? I quoted myself to show you you're wrong that I did get what you were saying. The only difference between doing his loyalty mission before the suicide mission or after is that he can be killed. As far as Zaeed threatening Shepard. Did he? All he does is turn around and point his weapon at Shepard saying "you cost me 20 years of my life" before the beam falls on him.
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Post by erikson on May 4, 2017 0:11:39 GMT
It occurs during a paragon run of the scene, that is a choice (unless actually manually pointing the gun is all you care about in the scene). I assume if you let the rifinery blow up it does not occur. Not leaving the factory works behind to die is the only way for it to happen but still Shepard pulls the gun with no player input what so ever. My comment was a counter to someone saying that a scripted action was Shepard doing something about Zaeed pull a gun on him ignoring the point that I made that you could not kick him off the ship for doing that unless you do the mission after the suicide mission. read my addendum above on my last post
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Post by cypherj on May 4, 2017 0:13:09 GMT
Shouldn't be Shepard, just more badass I think. I also appreciate the fact that Ryder can't be a natural leader yet (and shouldn't be), but more balls would be nice. Maybe even stupid youthful reckless balls. Like telling Sloane off to her face and disarming Kaetus? Or getting into a bar brawl with Drack? Maybe going to Meridian against direct orders not to do so? Promotion of visiting Kadara Port while Tann is telling people to avoid it? Allowing Knight and Sloane to be assassinated? Letting Aroane be dropped into a bottomless pit? Ryder isn't Shepard. Whether or not Ryder could grow into a similar role is not the point. Ryder has a set background and the personality grows out of it. It's not like being an Earthborn Butcher of Torfan (though I've done that and played Paragon anyway). If Ryder isn't shooting allies in the back because they disagree with him it's because his role is to make things better not worse. You could argue that the seriousness of Shepard's missions allowed for more extreme measures but the same can't be said for Ryder. As I said, he could possibly grow into that role but at 22 and being forced into a role he didn't expect, it's taking some time to find his feet. I'd say the major win at the end of MEA would give him a confidence boost and should help him grow should BioWare choose to put him in MEA2. But the game almost makes it seem like you're just Alec's kid along for the ride to Andromeda and circumstance just thrust you into the Pathfinder role, and you had never seen any kind of action. I played Sara, and she was attached to a scientific research team, had seen combat on her trips, and generally seen things. There would have been some sort of chain of command on these trips, she went through Pathfinder team training, where they would have been some structure. The whole laid back, I can't take things seriously attitude just didn't fit given what I knew about her. The professional options should have been coupled with real casual options, where it was formal, and informal. But it was mostly professional or goofy, joking, sarcastic. That is not what casual means. Professional/Casual is I talk to and address people a different way a work than I do when I'm not at work. The sarcastic, joking, whatever should have been it's own option, at least you would have known that what came out was going to be something goofy.
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Post by erikson on May 4, 2017 0:15:41 GMT
Like telling Sloane off to her face and disarming Kaetus? Or getting into a bar brawl with Drack? Maybe going to Meridian against direct orders not to do so? Promotion of visiting Kadara Port while Tann is telling people to avoid it? Allowing Knight and Sloane to be assassinated? Letting Aroane be dropped into a bottomless pit? Ryder isn't Shepard. Whether or not Ryder could grow into a similar role is not the point. Ryder has a set background and the personality grows out of it. It's not like being an Earthborn Butcher of Torfan (though I've done that and played Paragon anyway). If Ryder isn't shooting allies in the back because they disagree with him it's because his role is to make things better not worse. You could argue that the seriousness of Shepard's missions allowed for more extreme measures but the same can't be said for Ryder. As I said, he could possibly grow into that role but at 22 and being forced into a role he didn't expect, it's taking some time to find his feet. I'd say the major win at the end of MEA would give him a confidence boost and should help him grow should BioWare choose to put him in MEA2. But the game almost makes it seem like you're just Alec's kid along for the ride to Andromeda and circumstance just thrust you into the Pathfinder role, and you had never seen any kind of action. I played Sara, and she was attached to a scientific research team, had seen combat on her trips, and generally seen things. There would have been some sort of chain of command on these trips, she went through Pathfinder team training, where they would have been some structure. The whole laid back, I can't take things seriously attitude just didn't fit given what I knew about her. The professional options should have been coupled with real casual options, where it was formal, and informal. But it was mostly professional or goofy, joking, sarcastic. That is not what casual means. Professional/Casual is I talk to and address people a different way a work than I do when I'm not at work. The sarcastic, joking, whatever should have been it's own option, at least you would have known that what came out was going to be something goofy. This is not an unreasonable objection.
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Post by dreman999 on May 4, 2017 0:21:34 GMT
Like telling Sloane off to her face and disarming Kaetus? Or getting into a bar brawl with Drack? Maybe going to Meridian against direct orders not to do so? Promotion of visiting Kadara Port while Tann is telling people to avoid it? Allowing Knight and Sloane to be assassinated? Letting Aroane be dropped into a bottomless pit? Ryder isn't Shepard. Whether or not Ryder could grow into a similar role is not the point. Ryder has a set background and the personality grows out of it. It's not like being an Earthborn Butcher of Torfan (though I've done that and played Paragon anyway). If Ryder isn't shooting allies in the back because they disagree with him it's because his role is to make things better not worse. You could argue that the seriousness of Shepard's missions allowed for more extreme measures but the same can't be said for Ryder. As I said, he could possibly grow into that role but at 22 and being forced into a role he didn't expect, it's taking some time to find his feet. I'd say the major win at the end of MEA would give him a confidence boost and should help him grow should BioWare choose to put him in MEA2. But the game almost makes it seem like you're just Alec's kid along for the ride to Andromeda and circumstance just thrust you into the Pathfinder role, and you had never seen any kind of action. I played Sara, and she was attached to a scientific research team, had seen combat on her trips, and generally seen things. There would have been some sort of chain of command on these trips, she went through Pathfinder team training, where they would have been some structure. The whole laid back, I can't take things seriously attitude just didn't fit given what I knew about her. The professional options should have been coupled with real casual options, where it was formal, and informal. But it was mostly professional or goofy, joking, sarcastic. That is not what casual means. Professional/Casual is I talk to and address people a different way a work than I do when I'm not at work. The sarcastic, joking, whatever should have been it's own option, at least you would have known that what came out was going to be something goofy. 1. Alec put his kid on his own team....That is one of the most nonmilitary actions ever. Also Alec is the very top of the chain of command. 2. Wow,subjective opinions stated as objective facts....that's not going to get old and is totally new.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 4, 2017 0:21:38 GMT
But the game almost makes it seem like you're just Alec's kid along for the ride to Andromeda and circumstance just thrust you into the Pathfinder role, and you had never seen any kind of action. I played Sara, and she was attached to a scientific research team, had seen combat on her trips, and generally seen things. There would have been some sort of chain of command on these trips, she went through Pathfinder team training, where they would have been some structure. The whole laid back, I can't take things seriously attitude just didn't fit given what I knew about her. The professional options should have been coupled with real casual options, where it was formal, and informal. But it was mostly professional or goofy, joking, sarcastic. That is not what casual means. Professional/Casual is I talk to and address people a different way a work than I do when I'm not at work. The sarcastic, joking, whatever should have been it's own option, at least you would have known that what came out was going to be something goofy. In ME1, I was a loyal Alliance marine (even as a Spectre, there still seemed to be loyalty to the Alliance, especially if you did all those UNC missions). I fought Cerberus in ME1 and saw that they were terrorists. Then, in ME2, I wake up in a Cerberus facility and work for them. To me, that's a major disconnect. Where was my option to bail on Cerberus? How come I couldn't RP that?
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Post by dreman999 on May 4, 2017 0:29:41 GMT
Shepard can point a gun right back at Zaeed. The suicide mission has nothing to do with that. Zaeed can die on his loyalty mission, which only happens after the suicide mission, and that only happens if the right choices are made during the mission and dialogue are chosen 1. Yes it does. the issue of the complaint is the limit of roleplaying. And you use an explain of what is not done that was limited is an action of limiting roleplaying. Can you explain what you mean by "and you use an explain"? I quoted myself to show you you're wrong that I did get what you were saying. The only difference between doing his loyalty mission before the suicide mission or after is that he can be killed. As far as Zaeed threatening Shepard. Did he? All he does is turn around and point his weapon at Shepard saying "you cost me 20 years of my life" before the beam falls on him. 1. I mean example. 2.a.Then why point out the obvious? no point to telling me it only happens on his loyalty mission if I reference to it. b. And that is a huge difference. because you have a legitimate reason to kick him off the ship. What normally happens when someone threats there superior officer? military.findlaw.com/criminal-law/what-is-insubordination.htmlc. pointing a gun while in anger ready to fire at you is not threatening you? In most us state if you shot Zaeed there and killed him you you would get off with no charges.
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Post by dreman999 on May 4, 2017 0:30:55 GMT
But the game almost makes it seem like you're just Alec's kid along for the ride to Andromeda and circumstance just thrust you into the Pathfinder role, and you had never seen any kind of action. I played Sara, and she was attached to a scientific research team, had seen combat on her trips, and generally seen things. There would have been some sort of chain of command on these trips, she went through Pathfinder team training, where they would have been some structure. The whole laid back, I can't take things seriously attitude just didn't fit given what I knew about her. The professional options should have been coupled with real casual options, where it was formal, and informal. But it was mostly professional or goofy, joking, sarcastic. That is not what casual means. Professional/Casual is I talk to and address people a different way a work than I do when I'm not at work. The sarcastic, joking, whatever should have been it's own option, at least you would have known that what came out was going to be something goofy. In ME1, I was a loyal Alliance marine (even as a Spectre, there still seemed to be loyalty to the Alliance, especially if you did all those UNC missions). I fought Cerberus in ME1 and saw that they were terrorists. Then, in ME2, I wake up in a Cerberus facility and work for them. To me, that's a major disconnect. Where was my option to bail on Cerberus? How come I couldn't RP that?
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