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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 2:39:15 GMT
I'll just...leave this here.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 16, 2018 2:52:23 GMT
Canon Destroy (in 2nd place with 45 votes) and modded Destroy (in 1st place with 48 votes) are in the lead.
With Control in 3rd with 10 votes.
And Synthesis in last with only 7 votes.
Guess Casey Hudson's dream ending is not favoured by all.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 4:31:01 GMT
I'll just...leave this here. Wasn't that also back in the days when they were saying that people should keep their ME3 saves?
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 4:35:04 GMT
Canon Destroy (in 2nd place with 45 votes) and modded Destroy (in 1st place with 48 votes) are in the lead. With Control in 3rd with 10 votes. And Synthesis in last with only 7 votes. Guess Casey Hudson's dream ending is not favoured by all. MEHEM is the best ending. Synthesis? I don't know about you, but I don't want to be turned into some kind of weird cyber-human. The only AI we have right now are in computer systems, at which point we get that thing on the Citadel in ME1. To some extent, Synthesis was a "feel good" ending. But it lets the Reapers off the hook for billions of years worth of genocide. I can't accept that. Even if Shepard dies, I'd still rather send those things to hell.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 16, 2018 4:39:50 GMT
Canon Destroy (in 2nd place with 45 votes) and modded Destroy (in 1st place with 48 votes) are in the lead. With Control in 3rd with 10 votes. And Synthesis in last with only 7 votes. Guess Casey Hudson's dream ending is not favoured by all. MEHEM is the best ending. Synthesis? I don't know about you, but I don't want to be turned into some kind of weird cyber-human. The only AI we have right now are in computer systems, at which point we get that thing on the Citadel in ME1. To some extent, Synthesis was a "feel good" ending. But it lets the Reapers off the hook for billions of years worth of genocide. I can't accept that. Even if Shepard dies, I'd still rather send those things to hell.
Of course we don't like Synthesis, it turns all life in the galaxy into freaks of nature. We were just saying that Hudson's dream ending (Synthesis) is not as liked as he thinks it is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 6:18:35 GMT
I'll just...leave this here. Wasn't that also back in the days when they were saying that people should keep their ME3 saves? That tweet was said before the Extended Cut was made.
I don't think Bioware had an ME4 in the works, or even a thought of making it. If there was another Mass Effect game to be made, it was Andromeda (which comes after ME2, but before ME3).
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Post by sil on Aug 16, 2018 7:57:05 GMT
A sidequel could work for a smaller game, like Halo 3: ODST. Set it during the Reaper War on worlds we never experienced, fight the Reapers on some of the homeworlds we missed out on in ME3, perhaps fight indoctrinated enemies rather than Cerberus, maybe with the ability to play as some of the Council races rather than just humans. It could be interesting and use an imported ME1-3 save to dictate certain elements, such as what happens at the end.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 16, 2018 9:22:12 GMT
This video breaks down the disaster of ME3 and how poor the writing is. I know the video is like an hour long, but the video is worth to watch to get a fresh perspective. Yeah, it was so poorly received that Metacritic scored it 93/100 on Xbox, 93/100 on PS3, 89/100 on PC and 85/100 on WiiU. ME2 got 94/100 on PC, 94/100 PS3 and 96/100 on Xbox 360. If we go back further, to the original, it received 89/100 on PC, 85/100 on PS3 and 91/100 on Xbox 360. (For WiiU, it should be noted that the game makes little sense in the context of the trilogy. It also didn't get a lot of the DLC.) In any case, based on completion of all three games, it's clear that ratings wise it goes ME2 -> ME3 -> ME1. It's clearly not the worst game in the trilogy. People may not have liked the ending but they didn't crucify the game over it.
I'm not saying people don't have the right to dislike the endings. I don't care for it myself, which is why I use MEHEM. I just don't find it useful to complain about how much better you all are with writing than the people at BioWare. We've got some great modders out there who can alter things to their liking (not just endings but a host of things). There are enough people out there who are attached to certain endings that trying to "fix" it will piss some segment of people or other. Just leave it be and let BioWare focus on another galaxy to detach itself from those endings. It ends Shepard's story, it ends the Reapers' story and we move onto something else. Yes, MEA got low ratings, especially in comparison to the MET, but a solid writing team could fix that.
Um, you do realize the reviwers can get bribed to put good scores, right? And it still doesn't change the fact that the ending has caused a debacle of BioWare, and gamers who are pissed off about the ending. And downplaying BioWare's screwups is not going to change that. Either they get on the ball or pack up their bags and go home.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 9:33:23 GMT
Um, you do realize the reviwers can get bribed to put good scores, right? And it still doesn't change the fact that the ending has caused a debacle of BioWare, and gamers who are pissed off about the ending. And downplaying BioWare's screwups is not going to change that. Either they get on the ball or pack up their bags and go home. Then why weren't the reviewers of MEA similarly bribed? Maybe because I didn't play the MET until early 2016, I was less attached to the endings. They didn't bother me overall but I still believe MEHEM was a better alternative. I still chose Destroy regardless. Tried Synthesis and Control once. Neither appealed to me so I moved on. NBD. I can only conclude that people hated the ending because they wanted Shepard to continue in a fourth ME game. Otherwise, who cares? Nothing is preventing you from having the ending you prefer.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 17, 2018 7:50:19 GMT
Since it recently came up in the B5 thread, I have no idea how Control can be seen in anyway as a good ending.
Control not only perpetuates the enslavement of the Milky Way under the thumb of the Reapers (even if Shepard was installed as the new MCP), but justifies their existence as a necessary evil to all life in the galaxy, thereby letting them off the hook for billions of years of genocide (while profiting off their murder for technological benefit).
It says, why choose the freedom and danger of the ocean, when you can remain safe in a fishbowl for all eternity?
(Picking Control is like suggesting the fish should have stayed with the dentist in Finding Nemo?)
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Post by XJlock on Aug 18, 2018 3:19:50 GMT
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 18, 2018 8:32:09 GMT
I love the sight of Reapers being blown apart by that sweet, sweet red wave.
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Post by michaeln7 on Aug 18, 2018 17:34:55 GMT
I have to say Synthesis.
We only see the very beginning of Synthesis, what we don't see is how the knowledge and wisdom of countless previous civilizations could be tapped into. We don't see the possibility of "undoing" the damage the Reapers caused to husks, marauders, canibaals, brutes, banshees, etc., ergo returning them to their natural form. Because we only see the next few minutes proper, and then only a few years (at most) via slideshow/narration.
I am NOT saying that others cannot have their ending choice, I am NOT saying that picking a different ending makes you "dumb" or "stupid".
To be perfectly frank, I really think the best ending is "Destroy-Indoctrination Theory". It's poetically pristine, and thematically thunderous in complexity and scope, and had BioWare been allowed to do that they would have been immortalized as Paragons of storytelling.
HOWEVER, that ending doesn't exist, so while the Synthesis ending is messy, no doubts there; it has the most potential for good AND removes the reason for the Reapers to exist.
Therefore, I am destroying them physically (thereabouts, not quite literally) AND their idea, preventing the cycle from ever happening again.
Destroy just "resets" the clock, but doesn't solve the underlying problem. At best, you get to "try again" but have ultimately learned nothing. There is a great risk of repetition of the same paths that led here.
Control maybe solves the problem initially, but who's to say YOU don't reach the same conclusion as the Catalyst after eons of seeing a repeat of the same crap that led to the creation of the Catalyst in the first place?
Synthesis is the only option I've reasoned to be the one that REALLY solves the problem. It's not easy, it's not pretty, and yet again I emphasize with all haste and exuberance that I am not trying to take away one's canon nor minimize it's value.
Simply that these are among my reasons for picking Synthesis.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 19, 2018 1:22:20 GMT
HOWEVER, that ending doesn't exist, so while the Synthesis ending is messy, no doubts there; it has the most potential for good AND removes the reason for the Reapers to exist. Except they're let off the hook for billions of years of genocide. We get one genocide on Earth and it's the chopping block for them. Should we allow them to regret their actions and make amends? No, we kill them. I think, like others, that Synthesis only looks great on the surface. Any ending that allows the Reapers to continue existing is a bad ending. My take. Honestly, I'd rather lose this knowledge and learn on our own rather than be subject to the will of the Reapers. And the Reapers might decide they don't like certain things that are happening. Then what?
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Post by themikefest on Aug 19, 2018 13:37:10 GMT
I think, like others, that Synthesis only looks great on the surface. It doesn't look good on any suface. Yep They can still get the knowledge. Its possible that the knowledge could be obtained from darkspace when Shepard heads there to make sure the reapers are no longer a threat even after they're destroyed. bsn.boards.net/post/1007439/thread
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Post by Arcian on Aug 20, 2018 19:07:36 GMT
A sidequel could work for a smaller game, like Halo 3: ODST. Set it during the Reaper War on worlds we never experienced, fight the Reapers on some of the homeworlds we missed out on in ME3, perhaps fight indoctrinated enemies rather than Cerberus, maybe with the ability to play as some of the Council races rather than just humans. It could be interesting and use an imported ME1-3 save to dictate certain elements, such as what happens at the end. We've already seen the Reaper War first hand as Shepard. I'm not sure a Reaper War sidequel can tell a really new story. Any story being told would be colored by everything Shepard did thus making it an extension of ME3 rather than its own story. Not to mention having to take those goddamn endings into account, provided the sidequel doesn't end before the war does. A prequel suffers from the same problems, plus that the outcomes are always known. And any story set before humans discovered Mass Effect would obviously not involve humans as playable characters or NPCs, which would put off a lot of casual players (no matter how cool the Prothean-Reaper War, Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions would be to play through). The most interesting thing they could do is show what happened after the Reaper War ended as the galaxy rebuilds both their planets and the Mass Relays. Preferably based on a new ME3 ending that doesn't screw everything up, or if they have to choose one, Destroy minus synthetics randomly dying. In such a story, the primary antagonists could be the yahg, who have achieved spaceflight and received a bit of a tech boost from Liara's predecessor as Shadow Broker, or the now virtually unchallenged Leviathans, or even the Citadel Council as imperialist reclaimers trying to reassert control over colonies that have been independent and cut off from Citadel Space for decades or even centuries after the Reaper War, with themes of imperialism vs nationalism, civilization vs barbarism and a general setting of post-apocalyptic reconstruction and renaissance. Just my two credits. I'll just...leave this here. Wasn't that also back in the days when they were saying that people should keep their ME3 saves? I think that's more a case of future proofing than anything concrete. You know, just in case they try to build a single game based on three wildly diverging endings (although realistically they'd probably ignore those particular variables in their ME4 import system, purely for practical reasons).
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Post by sil on Aug 20, 2018 19:48:37 GMT
A sidequel could work for a smaller game, like Halo 3: ODST. Set it during the Reaper War on worlds we never experienced, fight the Reapers on some of the homeworlds we missed out on in ME3, perhaps fight indoctrinated enemies rather than Cerberus, maybe with the ability to play as some of the Council races rather than just humans. It could be interesting and use an imported ME1-3 save to dictate certain elements, such as what happens at the end. We've already seen the Reaper War first hand as Shepard. I'm not sure a Reaper War sidequel can tell a really new story. Any story being told would be colored by everything Shepard did thus making it an extension of ME3 rather than its own story. Not to mention having to take those goddamn endings into account, provided the sidequel doesn't end before the war does. We barely saw the Reaper War at all. We saw certain actions as Shepard worked to gain allies, but we're talking about a war where starships are trying to commit genocide against trillions. There are countless stories to tell, on worlds we never got to see such as Dekuuna and Irune. A short sidequel could do wonders for telling a good story, and would allow our previous game decisions, including ME3's, to influence how the story plays out.
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Post by copper on Aug 20, 2018 23:52:17 GMT
We've already seen the Reaper War first hand as Shepard. I'm not sure a Reaper War sidequel can tell a really new story. Any story being told would be colored by everything Shepard did thus making it an extension of ME3 rather than its own story. Not to mention having to take those goddamn endings into account, provided the sidequel doesn't end before the war does. We barely saw the Reaper War at all. We saw certain actions as Shepard worked to gain allies, but we're talking about a war where starships are trying to commit genocide against trillions. There are countless stories to tell, on worlds we never got to see such as Dekuuna and Irune. A short sidequel could do wonders for telling a good story, and would allow our previous game decisions, including ME3's, to influence how the story plays out. Personally that would just be milking the franchise name to me. The Reapers weren't all that interesting to be the primary antagonists for an entire trilogy imo, so having a sidequel with them would be overkill. I'd personally enjoy exploring the Mass Effect universe from a non military perspective, if it was possible to work around the trilogy's endings.
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Post by Ascend on Aug 23, 2018 16:26:03 GMT
Since it recently came up in the B5 thread, I have no idea how Control can be seen in anyway as a good ending. Control not only perpetuates the enslavement of the Milky Way under the thumb of the Reapers (even if Shepard was installed as the new MCP), How do you come that conclusion? Renegade Shepard maybe... As a Paragon Shepard, Control in no way entails enslavement of the Milky Way, and neither does Neutral... See here; FemShep Paragon starts 0:00 FemShep Renegade starts 3:48 FemShep Neutral starts 7:23 ManShep Paragon starts 11:13 ManShep Renegade starts 15:04 ManShep Neutral starts 18:39 but justifies their existence as a necessary evil to all life in the galaxy, thereby letting them off the hook for billions of years of genocide (while profiting off their murder for technological benefit). So this is about revenge then, rather than what is best for the Galaxy? This issue is practically the same as Maelon's data, the Mordin mission in ME2. Do you destroy something because it was used as something evil or acquired in an evil way, or do you preserve it and change its use for good, from the perspective that the ones that suffered didn't do so for nothing? If all that technology can be used for repair of the galaxy for starters, why destroy it? If it can protect the galaxy from the Leviathans, why destroy it? It says, why choose the freedom and danger of the ocean, when you can remain safe in a fishbowl for all eternity? (Picking Control is like suggesting the fish should have stayed with the dentist in Finding Nemo?)
Really? Not the same at all from my perspective. I'm under the impression you don't understand the Control ending. It's not about controlling the galaxy. It's about getting control over the reapers. I can trust my Shepard with that. If you can't trust your Shepard with it, I don't know what kind of psychopath you played as lol. If we take the fishbowl analogy... Destroy is killing the dentist hoping you can ultimately get out of the bowl Control is having mind control over the dentist to help you get out of the bowl Synthesis is... Fusing humans and fish together so you won't need a bowl.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 23, 2018 18:08:17 GMT
How do you come that conclusion? Renegade Shepard maybe... As a Paragon Shepard, Control in no way entails enslavement of the Milky Way, and neither does Neutral... See here; It sounds good until you realize that AI Shepard and the Reapers are actually enforcing peace. That doesn't sound like freedom to me. Note that this is not Shepard. It's an AI patterned after Shepard to give "direction". This suggests that it's something else (maybe even still the Catalyst) but is going down some other path. It's still using the Reapers, though, so who can say how different from the Catalyst it really is? So this is about revenge then, rather than what is best for the Galaxy? This issue is practically the same as Maelon's data, the Mordin mission in ME2. Do you destroy something because it was used as something evil or acquired in an evil way, or do you preserve it and change its use for good, from the perspective that the ones that suffered didn't do so for nothing? If all that technology can be used for repair of the galaxy for starters, why destroy it? If it can protect the galaxy from the Leviathans, why destroy it? Shepard AI + Reapers becomes the protector, right? Suppose war breaks out and this AI has to stop it. How do you think it accomplishes it? And if does so by simply placing some Reapers around them to stop the war, isn't the robbing them of free will? Beyond that, if a weapon still exists that weapon can still be used. Just some food for thought.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 23, 2018 18:13:55 GMT
The number one problem I have with the green and blue is the reapers are still around. Destroying them prevents that.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 23, 2018 18:45:19 GMT
The number one problem I have with the green and blue is the reapers are still around. Destroying them prevents that. Yes. Exactly. They're pardoned for killing 200 trillion people! I'm not okay with that.
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Post by Ascend on Aug 23, 2018 18:49:58 GMT
The number one problem I have with destroy is that the Leviathans are still around and there's NOTHING left to defend against them.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 23, 2018 19:00:35 GMT
The number one problem I have with destroy is that the Leviathans are still around and there's NOTHING left to defend against them. I always thought that would have been a great follow-up game. Besides, the Leviathan numbers are extremely low and we're well aware of the indoctrination artifacts and we could go out of our way to avoid them. We also know a grenade or handheld weapons are able to destroy them with ease. The Leviathan are not invincible and uniting the galaxy further to challenge them would be interesting. I won't keep the Reapers around for that.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ascend on Aug 23, 2018 19:05:40 GMT
We're well aware of the indoctrination artifacts and we could go out of our way to avoid them. Nah... Barely anyone knows about the Leviathans at all, let alone their indoctrination capabilities.
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