LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,403
inherit
10314
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:33:19 GMT
12,403
LadyofNemesis
4,971
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 26, 2018 16:57:59 GMT
Went with Synthesis the first time I played because the Catalyst made it sound so beautiful (fell right into that dirty ol' trap ), and I bawled my eyes out
Every time since I've gone with Destroy, currently I'm replaying the trilogy before I'm going to play Andromeda and I'll be trying out the MEHEM mod for the first time, looking forward to it actually
as for a canon ending, I do prefer the Destroy ending over anything else, it makes the most sense from a story perspective (at least imo) and playing as Shepard, your mission first and foremost is finding a way to defeat the Reapers to quote from ME 1 "you're just a machine, and machines can be broken" though I was sad that if I pick the Destroy ending it'd also mean dooming EDI and the Geth...so yeah...Destroy with MEHEM elements would be considered my canon ending to the trilogy
|
|
inherit
3035
0
May 28, 2024 15:29:11 GMT
2,341
sil
1,551
Jan 28, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
January 2017
sil
|
Post by sil on Aug 26, 2018 20:47:30 GMT
Went with Synthesis the first time I played because the Catalyst made it sound so beautiful (fell right into that dirty ol' trap ), and I bawled my eyes out
Every time since I've gone with Destroy, currently I'm replaying the trilogy before I'm going to play Andromeda and I'll be trying out the MEHEM mod for the first time, looking forward to it actually
as for a canon ending, I do prefer the Destroy ending over anything else, it makes the most sense from a story perspective (at least imo) and playing as Shepard, your mission first and foremost is finding a way to defeat the Reapers to quote from ME 1 "you're just a machine, and machines can be broken" though I was sad that if I pick the Destroy ending it'd also mean dooming EDI and the Geth...so yeah...Destroy with MEHEM elements would be considered my canon ending to the trilogy It only dooms EDI and the Geth if it was telling the truth.
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,403
inherit
10314
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:33:19 GMT
12,403
LadyofNemesis
4,971
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 26, 2018 20:53:13 GMT
Went with Synthesis the first time I played because the Catalyst made it sound so beautiful (fell right into that dirty ol' trap ), and I bawled my eyes out
Every time since I've gone with Destroy, currently I'm replaying the trilogy before I'm going to play Andromeda and I'll be trying out the MEHEM mod for the first time, looking forward to it actually
as for a canon ending, I do prefer the Destroy ending over anything else, it makes the most sense from a story perspective (at least imo) and playing as Shepard, your mission first and foremost is finding a way to defeat the Reapers to quote from ME 1 "you're just a machine, and machines can be broken" though I was sad that if I pick the Destroy ending it'd also mean dooming EDI and the Geth...so yeah...Destroy with MEHEM elements would be considered my canon ending to the trilogy It only dooms EDI and the Geth if it was telling the truth. hm...fair enough Still going with the Destroy ending though once had this head canon where a Tech oriented Shepard (Engineer, Infiltrator or Sentinel) had written a fail safe code that EDI secretly uploaded to the Crucible team that was meant to safe the Geth and EDI should the worst come to pass (aka. having to destroy the Reapers and them with it 'cause Reaper-code) it's a silly head canon I know, but I thought it'd be neat at the time
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Aug 27, 2018 12:05:10 GMT
Went with Synthesis the first time I played because the Catalyst made it sound so beautiful (fell right into that dirty ol' trap ), and I bawled my eyes out
Every time since I've gone with Destroy, currently I'm replaying the trilogy before I'm going to play Andromeda and I'll be trying out the MEHEM mod for the first time, looking forward to it actually
as for a canon ending, I do prefer the Destroy ending over anything else, it makes the most sense from a story perspective (at least imo) and playing as Shepard, your mission first and foremost is finding a way to defeat the Reapers to quote from ME 1 "you're just a machine, and machines can be broken" though I was sad that if I pick the Destroy ending it'd also mean dooming EDI and the Geth...so yeah...Destroy with MEHEM elements would be considered my canon ending to the trilogy It only dooms EDI and the Geth if it was telling the truth. What evidence is there of the catalyst deliberately lying?
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,309
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 27, 2018 12:30:56 GMT
The thing says its something that can't be forced. That is incorrect. If Shepard chooses the green, he/she is forcing it on the galaxy.
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Aug 27, 2018 16:04:49 GMT
Great. Except being wrong does not equal deliberately lying. He clearly states they tried a similar solution to synthesis in the past and that it always failed. The reason according to it was that the organics were not ready. That is when he says it cannot be forced, because that is what they tried and they always failed. But you're missing a key part here. Shepard IS practically an interweave of organics and synthetics, which is why the Catalyst states that Shepard has altered the variables by 'being here'. That can be interpreted as being at that location there, or, being here, as in being alive after being revived by Cerberus with technology that interweaves organic and synthetic material. I suspect the latter.
And what about the part where The Catalyst says it doesn't look forward to being replaced by Shepard when using control? What about all the times that he admits he was wrong?
There is nothing to indicate that The Catalyst is deliberately lying.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,309
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 27, 2018 16:43:45 GMT
Never said it was lying. All its doing is buttering up the green. It doesn't give a crap about Shepard or any organic. The green works in its favor because green is the only one that leaves the thing still around.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 16:53:29 GMT
Never said it was lying. All its doing is buttering up the green. It doesn't give a crap about Shepard or any organic. The green works in its favor because green is the only one that leaves the thing still around. However, synthesis doesn't leave the catalyst intact. It would be every bit as much changed as anything else in the galaxy. We know that synthetics are changed by this process because we see EDI after the fact and she is changed (glowing green eyes).
Also, control doesn't necessarily destroy the Catalyst. It takes away it's power to control the reapers. It still could be "around" - in retirement.
Is there a real guarantee that destroy would also destroy the Catalyst. It says it is within Shepard's power to "destroy us" but he doesn't actually say it would destroy all of the them, including himself. He also says there would be collateral damage to other synthetics, but he does also indicate that the damage done could eventually be repaired.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
3,700
Phantom
2,668
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Aug 27, 2018 17:06:47 GMT
Refuse will piss a lot of fans off....good if Bioware wants to troll us for the backlash
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 27, 2018 17:31:39 GMT
Refuse will piss a lot of fans off....good if Bioware wants to troll us for the backlash Refuse would be a good one if they wanted to reboot the series. Allow them to set games during early space colonization, conflicts between different races and actually think out the Reaper story line from start to finish rather then on the spot.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 27, 2018 17:57:50 GMT
Refuse will piss a lot of fans off....good if Bioware wants to troll us for the backlash How about this? Things don't work out in Andromeda. Maybe the kett prove to challenging or they just don't find it to be what they expected. Either way, they take a 600+ year trip back to the MW. Since Refuse was chosen, all major MW races are wiped out and the Reapers have completed removing all artifacts about their existence. All that's left is Liara's beacons that explain everything that happened and how to prevent the Reapers from returning. They do not use the Citadel anymore, except maybe to use some of its technology to rebuild. Now knowing it's a trap they can afford to set up there.
The Crucible gets built. Plans are made to move it to the Serpent Nebula when the time for the next cycle arrives. I know that's a long time, so continuous beacons would have to be created to make sure it passes down through the generations, but all of them would require Liara's message so, over time, people still believe the Crucible is necessary.
Meanwhile, the people of the AI start bringing it all together. They use the mass relays but disconnect them from the Citadel. They also create more, as Atheyta has suggested 1200 years prior. The MW is here, but it's a whole new ballgame. Potentially, there are a random few krogan and asari around, but that's it. I doubt cryo would be useful since the Reapers would now be aware of it as a possibility.
This should satisfy returning to the MW in a way that still makes use of the AI cast. Also, by this time, we've got a seasoned crew who is ready to take on whatever comes their way. Since they'll be exploring new areas of the galaxy, they might just find out they're not alone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 18:00:21 GMT
Refuse will piss a lot of fans off....good if Bioware wants to troll us for the backlash How about this? Things don't work out in Andromeda. Maybe the kett prove to challenging or they just don't find it to be what they expected. Either way, they take a 600+ year trip back to the MW. Since Refuse was chosen, all major MW races are wiped out and the Reapers have completed removing all artifacts about their existence. All that's left is Liara's beacons that explain everything that happened and how to prevent the Reapers from returning. They do not use the Citadel anymore, except maybe to use some of its technology to rebuild. Now knowing it's a trap they can afford to set up there.
The Crucible gets built. Plans are made to move it to the Serpent Nebula when the time for the next cycle arrives. I know that's a long time, so continuous beacons would have to be created to make sure it passes down through the generations, but all of them would require Liara's message so, over time, people still believe the Crucible is necessary.
Meanwhile, the people of the AI start bringing it all together. They use the mass relays but disconnect them from the Citadel. They also create more, as Atheyta has suggested 1200 years prior. The MW is here, but it's a whole new ballgame. Potentially, there are a random few krogan and asari around, but that's it. I doubt cryo would be useful since the Reapers would now be aware of it as a possibility.
This should satisfy returning to the MW in a way that still makes use of the AI cast. Also, by this time, we've got a seasoned crew who is ready to take on whatever comes their way. Since they'll be exploring new areas of the galaxy, they might just find out they're not alone.
I like it.
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Aug 27, 2018 18:02:59 GMT
Never said it was lying. All its doing is buttering up the green. It doesn't give a crap about Shepard or any organic. The green works in its favor because green is the only one that leaves the thing still around. Then you didn't answer my question, since my question obviously was asking what evidence there was of the catalyst purposefully lying. Quoting; What evidence is there of the catalyst deliberately lying? This is an indication of when someone is arguing from emotion rather than logic... Which is what the ones that blindly support destroy do.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 27, 2018 18:04:48 GMT
How about this? Things don't work out in Andromeda. Maybe the kett prove to challenging or they just don't find it to be what they expected. Either way, they take a 600+ year trip back to the MW. Since Refuse was chosen, all major MW races are wiped out and the Reapers have completed removing all artifacts about their existence. All that's left is Liara's beacons that explain everything that happened and how to prevent the Reapers from returning. They do not use the Citadel anymore, except maybe to use some of its technology to rebuild. Now knowing it's a trap they can afford to set up there.
The Crucible gets built. Plans are made to move it to the Serpent Nebula when the time for the next cycle arrives. I know that's a long time, so continuous beacons would have to be created to make sure it passes down through the generations, but all of them would require Liara's message so, over time, people still believe the Crucible is necessary.
Meanwhile, the people of the AI start bringing it all together. They use the mass relays but disconnect them from the Citadel. They also create more, as Atheyta has suggested 1200 years prior. The MW is here, but it's a whole new ballgame. Potentially, there are a random few krogan and asari around, but that's it. I doubt cryo would be useful since the Reapers would now be aware of it as a possibility.
This should satisfy returning to the MW in a way that still makes use of the AI cast. Also, by this time, we've got a seasoned crew who is ready to take on whatever comes their way. Since they'll be exploring new areas of the galaxy, they might just find out they're not alone.
I like it. One minor addition. They might have harvested some Remnant tech that comes in handy with the rebuilding. Not necessary but a possibility.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 27, 2018 18:08:36 GMT
Never said it was lying. All its doing is buttering up the green. It doesn't give a crap about Shepard or any organic. The green works in its favor because green is the only one that leaves the thing still around. Then you didn't answer my question, since my question obviously was asking what evidence there was of the catalyst purposefully lying. Quoting; "What evidence is there of the catalyst deliberately lying?" It claimed the Citadel was a part of it. It failed to do anything useful in ME1 where it could have made sure the Citadel relay opened. That it didn't is strong evidence that it doesn't actually have control of the Citadel or the Reapers. It's lying and trying to convince you that a way useful to it is the best one. Remember, the Crucible was supposed to wipe out the Reapers. It had nothing to do with the Catalyst until it took control and re-purposed it for its own ends. Either the Reapers created the Crucible, in which case it was stringing along people from prior races, or it subverted its original purpose. Either way, the thing was lying about something.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 27, 2018 18:18:00 GMT
Never said it was lying. All its doing is buttering up the green. It doesn't give a crap about Shepard or any organic. The green works in its favor because green is the only one that leaves the thing still around. Then you didn't answer my question, since my question obviously was asking what evidence there was of the catalyst purposefully lying. Quoting; What evidence is there of the catalyst deliberately lying? This is an indication of when someone is arguing from emotion rather than logic... Which is what the ones that blindly support destroy do. Word of advice for future reference. Always treat themikefest like you would a hard core anti vaxxer in any topic of conversation. He isn't interested in any actual discussion and the second you vaugly question his world view of this game and it's lore he will bury you in gish gallop till you get annoyed then declared you voicing your annoyance as negating every point you make because you got even slightly annoyed by the constant goal post moving and avoiding answering questions that might contradict his view of the game.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 27, 2018 18:19:46 GMT
Then you didn't answer my question, since my question obviously was asking what evidence there was of the catalyst purposefully lying. Quoting; "What evidence is there of the catalyst deliberately lying?" It claimed the Citadel was a part of it. It failed to do anything useful in ME1 where it could have made sure the Citadel relay opened. That it didn't is strong evidence that it doesn't actually have control of the Citadel or the Reapers. It's lying and trying to convince you that a way useful to it is the best one. Remember, the Crucible was supposed to wipe out the Reapers. It had nothing to do with the Catalyst until it took control and re-purposed it for its own ends. Either the Reapers created the Crucible, in which case it was stringing along people from prior races, or it subverted its original purpose. Either way, the thing was lying about something. It is funny you bring up that reason when I provide counter argument and your responds it to claim the Catalyst doesn't need to be safe. Basically avoiding everything I said and answering a question I didn't ask.
I believe it is called a straw man argument.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,309
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 27, 2018 18:26:21 GMT
Then you didn't answer my question, since my question obviously was asking what evidence there was of the catalyst purposefully lying. Why are you assuming I was answering your question?
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Aug 27, 2018 20:00:23 GMT
It claimed the Citadel was a part of it. And this is a problem because...? It says the Citadel is part of it, because the reapers are also part of it, most likely the Mass Relays too. It's the intelligence that controls everything regarding the reapers, remember? You know, the ones that developed the Citadel and Mass Relays to ensure organics develop along the paths they desire? It failed to do anything useful in ME1 where it could have made sure the Citadel relay opened. That it didn't is strong evidence that it doesn't actually have control of the Citadel or the Reapers. Or maybe the Catalyst simply wasn't written at all this point. You're obviously reaching. But even if we ignore the point of BioWare most likely not thinking that far ahead (or back, depending on your perspective), most likely, the catalyst is only a consciousness. Meaning, it probably can't do physical actions. Which is why it didn't do anything with opening/closing the Citadel relay and Saren was required. Which is exactly why Shepard is required to activate the Crucible. Most likely also why the Illusive Man was required for transportation of the Citadel to Earth. It's lying and trying to convince you that a way useful to it is the best one. Why is synthesis useful to it? Wouldn't what it want be to continue the cycle? Remember, the Crucible was supposed to wipe out the Reapers. No... The Crucible was a design used by a prior civilization, in an attempt to stop the reapers. Stopping is not the same as wiping out. Not to mention the game hammers multiple times on the point that we don't really know how to Crucible works, and more importantly, what the Crucible does. Remember that? Or is your memory that selective? It had nothing to do with the Catalyst until it took control and re-purposed it for its own ends. If it took control, how come it can't fire the crucible himself? How come it can take control of the Crucible but is not in Control of the Citadel? Either the Reapers created the Crucible, in which case it was stringing along people from prior races, or it subverted its original purpose. Why would the reapers create something that could destroy them? Not likely... Why is it required that the original purpose of the Crucible is subverted by the catalyst? We never knew what the Crucible does. There is no indication at all for this. Either way, the thing was lying about something. Because you want it to be a liar, or for some better objective verifiable reason? Why are you assuming I was answering your question? Who were you replying to then? And if you're gonna claim it was no one, your timing was extremely inconvenient apparently, and it would be borderline spam.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2018 3:21:55 GMT
It claimed the Citadel was a part of it. And this is a problem because...? It says the Citadel is part of it, because the reapers are also part of it, most likely the Mass Relays too. It's the intelligence that controls everything regarding the reapers, remember? You know, the ones that developed the Citadel and Mass Relays to ensure organics develop along the paths they desire? It failed to do anything useful in ME1 where it could have made sure the Citadel relay opened. That it didn't is strong evidence that it doesn't actually have control of the Citadel or the Reapers. Or maybe the Catalyst simply wasn't written at all this point. You're obviously reaching. But even if we ignore the point of BioWare most likely not thinking that far ahead (or back, depending on your perspective), most likely, the catalyst is only a consciousness. Meaning, it probably can't do physical actions. Which is why it didn't do anything with opening/closing the Citadel relay and Saren was required. Which is exactly why Shepard is required to activate the Crucible. Most likely also why the Illusive Man was required for transportation of the Citadel to Earth. I can't respond line by line. You'll have to sort it out yourself.
Firstly, it's conjecture that the Reapers are part of the Citadel or relays. They built them, use them and possibly control them, but it doesn't make it part of them. That's just guesswork on your part.
You say the Catalyst wasn't written in ME1? That's the whole reason why it's being said that it breaks lore. Lore didn't account for the Catalyst or else ME1 would have brought a close to this cycles when all the Reapers came through the Citadel relay.
The Catalyst/Intelligence destroyed a high percentage of the Leviathans. The first Reaper hadn't even been created at that point because the Leviathan themselves were used to make Harbinger, the first Reaper. How, then, is the Catalyst so weak that it can't take action on its own?
In that case, they didn't create the Crucible, which was designed by prior race(s) to destroy the Reapers. The Catalyst had to have taken it over for its own purposes. See what I'm driving at? We also have Vendetta telling us its purpose.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2018 3:24:02 GMT
It claimed the Citadel was a part of it. It failed to do anything useful in ME1 where it could have made sure the Citadel relay opened. That it didn't is strong evidence that it doesn't actually have control of the Citadel or the Reapers. It's lying and trying to convince you that a way useful to it is the best one. Remember, the Crucible was supposed to wipe out the Reapers. It had nothing to do with the Catalyst until it took control and re-purposed it for its own ends. Either the Reapers created the Crucible, in which case it was stringing along people from prior races, or it subverted its original purpose. Either way, the thing was lying about something. It is funny you bring up that reason when I provide counter argument and your responds it to claim the Catalyst doesn't need to be safe. Basically avoiding everything I said and answering a question I didn't ask.
I believe it is called a straw man argument.
You tried to say human language can have many meanings. I said the Catalyst would be very precise but you argued that the person behind the keyboard is not so precise. Fair point, but if that's the case it's entirely open to interpretation. That means your interpretation is as likely to be wrong as mine. Happy? You think all this shit is about you when I don't even give a fuck.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 28, 2018 4:00:40 GMT
It is funny you bring up that reason when I provide counter argument and your responds it to claim the Catalyst doesn't need to be safe. Basically avoiding everything I said and answering a question I didn't ask.
I believe it is called a straw man argument.
You tried to say human language can have many meanings. I said the Catalyst would be very precise but you argued that the person behind the keyboard is not so precise. Fair point, but if that's the case it's entirely open to interpretation. That means your interpretation is as likely to be wrong as mine. Happy? You think all this shit is about you when I don't even give a fuck. No it isn't up for interpretation because it creates conflict with over all story line. And given this isn't even a choice aspect (IE Destroy best ending) the whole personal interpretation argument holds about as much water as a screen door on a submarine. This is far more like "oh the instructions want me to use piece 6 not #9"
And I didn't make this about me I made it about you. Because I'm a caring guy who thinks everyone should get the attention they deserve.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,026
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Aug 29, 2018 23:16:29 GMT
There is nothing to indicate that The Catalyst is deliberately lying. The Catalyst is a rogue AI that has been stuck for billions of years in a logical feedback loop, as a result of it's (extremely vague) primary directive coming into conflict with the reality of the situation it was meant to be dealing with.
The Catalyst was charged with preserving organic life... but organic life was building synthetics that went on to destroy them. To prevent this from occurring, the Catalyst eventually concluded that the only way for organics not to be destroyed by their own synthetics, was to construct it's own synthetics and exterminate any race who'd developed enough to (potentially) create synthetics of their own, but not before "preserving" the pulped essence of each race within a Reaper shell.
It's been stuck carrying out a systematic genocide of the galaxy for billions of years, because it's flawed programming has left it too stupid to understand that pulping species into Reapers isn't "preserving" them. Nor does it comprehend that by creating the Reapers, Citadel Mass Relays and the Cycle to serve as a giant social experiment to find a "solution", it's unwittingly tainted it's own results by railroading each species to develop along the same technological lines each time.
(If doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different result is often a sign of madness... then how crackers is the Catalyst?)
Furthermore, we have hints in both the Prothean and current Cycle that the Reapers actively influence or seek to turn synthetics against organics, thereby creating the very conflict between synthetics and organics that the Catalyst is trying not to create?
In many ways, the Catalyst's actions have only served to reinforce and create the very problem that it's trying to prevent, not realising that it's own existence (or it's Reaper proxies) happens to be the common factor in each failed Cycle.
I bring all of this up because it's shows that even if the Catalyst doesn't deliberately lie to Shepard, that doesn't mean it's not an unreliable narrator.
How are we meant to believe anything a rogue AI, working under what is fundamentally broken logic and bad programming, asserts to be the truth? The Catalyst cannot discern between exterminating life and saving it, so that provides very little rationale for taking anything it says about Control and Synthesis as factual information.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 29, 2018 23:32:12 GMT
According to the Catalyst, it's actually preserving life in the form of Reapers. That's in line with Sovereign saying each Reaper was a "nation unto our own". They consider themselves to be the only way that organic life can survive - some sort of organic/synthetic mix (sort of like Synthesis, but with extreme horror involved). If the Catalyst is to believed, the Reapers were a solution until something came along. Even the Leviathan said as much.
Now, I have issues with the Catalyst but this is the logic given.
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Aug 30, 2018 0:37:46 GMT
In many ways, the Catalyst's actions have only served to reinforce and create the very problem that it's trying to prevent, not realising that it's own existence (or it's Reaper proxies) happens to be the common factor in each failed Cycle. Doesn't that actually prove the premise of the Catalyst right?
|
|