DoctorFox
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by DoctorFox on May 8, 2017 19:46:07 GMT
Bioware... what happened?
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ApocAlypsE
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on May 8, 2017 19:49:21 GMT
Game is already very hardware demanding. Couldn't keep the requirements reasonable while keeping the more detailed animations, I believe partially because FB3 is liquid shit and partially because the game is too big for its own good.
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brandoftime
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by brandoftime on May 8, 2017 19:59:49 GMT
Even the all worshiped Witcher 3 was downgraded. There was this big thing about the 'e3 controversy' and they showed images and videos of how Witcher 3 was dumbed down. It just goes with the territory, I guess.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 8, 2017 20:03:15 GMT
Even the all worshiped Witcher 3 was downgraded. There was this big thing about the 'e3 controversy' and they showed images and videos of how Witcher 3 was dumbed down. It just goes with the territory, I guess. All the complaints at Witcher III launch about the downgraded grass, I remember the wailing...
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 20:11:48 GMT
Looks like they went for a more bright and shiny look. They did this with sloane too. She has all that stupid shit makeup on her that just looks like garbage. Giving her a few scars would have sufficed but they want this futuristic look for her. A futuristic gang leader that looks like trash. I think when they redid it for whatever reason they didn't take the time to bother with facial animations. Or sabotage from within. Always a distinct possibility. LOL
Edited to add that BW's biggest plus is also their biggest failing. They listen way too much to people and care way too much about what they think and adapt way too much as a result.
They need to find their own truth. Their north star if you will. Know who they are and what they do great. Make that the heart and soul of every fucking game. Then do the rest as best as they can and go back to their roots when they were good. On that note, the one thing they had was story. DAO and ME1 had great stories. Great characters. The characters generally improved with time as did gameplay. But they are trying too damn hard to steal good ideas from other games that did well and incorporate them into their own and sometimes it is a fail. In MEA we have these things that look like they were stolen -- Playing as sibling reminds me of Ciri from W3. Some of the scanning quests remind me of W3 using his senses. It's okay-ish but they have to really be careful because even the maps feel more like them trying to be like w3 and skyrim than BW. As a result those are kind of meh. They don't do open worlds very well. The one thing they did well was interactive choices, better than other games you could see some difference. They used to do better stories with actual writers who appeared to know their craft. They used to have some great characters. Now, less depth seems required in all characters. And they are trying to damn hard to be like every other great selling or critically acclaimed game out there which makes them nothing but hacks compared to when they used to have the games that others wanted to copy. Oh how far they have fallen. Reminds me of how you see fame cause celebrities to fall apart. They might have been great at whatever their craft was once, but then fame turns them into a mess due to pressure and they lose their focus, listen to others and eventually end up dead of an overdose in a ditch somewhere. BW really needs to get back to what it does well. Not copy their own games that did well but get back to the actual roots of what they did well like craft a great story and build from there, sticking with visuals that worked for them before and saying fuck the criticisms. Maybe then things will be better.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 8, 2017 20:22:44 GMT
That's not that unusual, but downgrading facial animations is actually weird. Inquisition was using the same engine and it had way better facial animations and characters looks overall.
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Matterthief
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: morientes_n7
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Post by Matterthief on May 8, 2017 20:23:27 GMT
If anything, it's quite shocking how they failed to polish up animations for that infamous Kadara vertical slice. I mean, usually the cat's not out of the bag until the game is released.
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brandoftime
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by brandoftime on May 8, 2017 20:34:04 GMT
Even the all worshiped Witcher 3 was downgraded. There was this big thing about the 'e3 controversy' and they showed images and videos of how Witcher 3 was dumbed down. It just goes with the territory, I guess. All the complaints at Witcher III launch about the downgraded grass, I remember the wailing... And the walls, remember the time slowed footage how the walls in the town were not the same rocks as the E3 version. Horror.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 8, 2017 20:55:04 GMT
Can i get alpha build pls ?
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Post by colfoley on May 8, 2017 21:08:17 GMT
Threads like this bug the crap out of me. OF COURSE alpha 'looks better' it is far easier to render and program andv set up, and come up with a data budget for a cutscene of...in this case a minute.. Then it is for a hundred hour game driven by hundreds of cutscenes and actions and huge environments.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 8, 2017 21:28:11 GMT
And the alpha was leaked footage from a dev's resume show-reel, who knows what extra attention that had received...
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thelonelypoet
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by thelonelypoet on May 8, 2017 22:19:21 GMT
Threads like this bug the crap out of me. OF COURSE alpha 'looks better' it is far easier to render and program andv set up, and come up with a data budget for a cutscene of...in this case a minute.. Then it is for a hundred hour game driven by hundreds of cutscenes and actions and huge environments. But then how come my ME1 look better? For example the colors and the textures of the krogans and turians looked so, so much better. The bars were vibrant, the atmo was more vibrant...
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on May 8, 2017 22:33:51 GMT
And the alpha was leaked footage from a dev's resume show-reel, who knows what extra attention that had received... Given that the resume text in that footage said "Created: pollen plumes", he probably had precious little reason to touch up all the elements that he didn't create in the first place. He did the plumes, apparently. None of the models, none of the animations, not the map. Plus, when and where would he do that? At work, while still being employed at BioWare? Or did he "borrow" all the art assets and edited them at home? Both would have been problematic.
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Post by colfoley on May 8, 2017 22:39:57 GMT
Threads like this bug the crap out of me. OF COURSE alpha 'looks better' it is far easier to render and program andv set up, and come up with a data budget for a cutscene of...in this case a minute.. Then it is for a hundred hour game driven by hundreds of cutscenes and actions and huge environments. But then how come my ME1 look better? For example the colors and the textures of the krogans and turians looked so, so much better. The bars were vibrant, the atmo was more vibrant... I guess this either comes to different tastes or just me misremembering...which I find quite hard to believe since I did my last trilogy PT just before Andromeda came out...but no, it really didn't. Andromeda looked much better across the board. Maybe not in the facial animations sense. But I noticed on watching a video of ME 3 facial animations in action BioWare got away with it because the lips on their characters back then hardly moved...like at all...almost looked like a ventrilaquist act.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 8, 2017 22:46:25 GMT
Looks like they went for a more bright and shiny look. They did this with sloane too. She has all that stupid shit makeup on her that just looks like garbage. Giving her a few scars would have sufficed but they want this futuristic look for her. A futuristic gang leader that looks like trash. I think when they redid it for whatever reason they didn't take the time to bother with facial animations. Or sabotage from within. Always a distinct possibility. LOL Edited to add that BW's biggest plus is also their biggest failing. They listen way too much to people and care way too much about what they think and adapt way too much as a result. They need to find their own truth. Their north star if you will. Know who they are and what they do great. Make that the heart and soul of every fucking game. Then do the rest as best as they can and go back to their roots when they were good. On that note, the one thing they had was story. DAO and ME1 had great stories. Great characters. The characters generally improved with time as did gameplay. But they are trying too damn hard to steal good ideas from other games that did well and incorporate them into their own and sometimes it is a fail. In MEA we have these things that look like they were stolen -- Playing as sibling reminds me of Ciri from W3. Some of the scanning quests remind me of W3 using his senses. It's okay-ish but they have to really be careful because even the maps feel more like them trying to be like w3 and skyrim than BW. As a result those are kind of meh. They don't do open worlds very well. The one thing they did well was interactive choices, better than other games you could see some difference. They used to do better stories with actual writers who appeared to know their craft. They used to have some great characters. Now, less depth seems required in all characters. And they are trying to damn hard to be like every other great selling or critically acclaimed game out there which makes them nothing but hacks compared to when they used to have the games that others wanted to copy. Oh how far they have fallen. Reminds me of how you see fame cause celebrities to fall apart. They might have been great at whatever their craft was once, but then fame turns them into a mess due to pressure and they lose their focus, listen to others and eventually end up dead of an overdose in a ditch somewhere. BW really needs to get back to what it does well. Not copy their own games that did well but get back to the actual roots of what they did well like craft a great story and build from there, sticking with visuals that worked for them before and saying fuck the criticisms. Maybe then things will be better. Well said.
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 8, 2017 22:56:24 GMT
Meh, when it comes to showing scenes of a game pre-launch, you'll find various games downgrade on launch. That scene in the vid was most likely just to get hype up, had they shown a good chunk of scenes being that consistent then I could see an argument that the alpha was better, till then it's just people being unreasonable and lacking an understanding of how alpha tests and teasers go. I mean, even the concept art looks better, does that mean they intentionally downgraded though? Nah, they were merely concepts and they had to pick and choose what to make priorities, every game suffers that fate.
Ever notice why the saying "the pre-launch trailers look better than the real thing" reoccurs all the time for games? Cause anything pre-launch is made to look better since they'll only show a small fraction, why not polish that small fraction you show to an audience to give it a good impression and get people hooked? It's all bait.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 8, 2017 22:59:23 GMT
I doubt my PS4 would have been able to really pull off the considerably more detailed version. In any case, I didn't see anything in the entirety of Drack's loyalty mission sequence that looked particularly bad in any way, so…
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Post by Furisco on May 8, 2017 23:03:20 GMT
I don't think the game is terrible, but that video is really sad.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 8, 2017 23:04:06 GMT
Threads like this bug the crap out of me. OF COURSE alpha 'looks better' it is far easier to render and program andv set up, and come up with a data budget for a cutscene of...in this case a minute.. Then it is for a hundred hour game driven by hundreds of cutscenes and actions and huge environments. I agree.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 8, 2017 23:06:08 GMT
I don't think the game is terrible, but that video is really sad. I almost gave up because some dude's face was obstructing the important content for too long.
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Post by vonuber on May 8, 2017 23:07:18 GMT
I don't think the game is terrible, but that video is really sad. Sad because it showcases something that a console would never run in a month of Sundays, and yet people will moan about 'downgrading'? Yes that is sad.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 8, 2017 23:08:04 GMT
Old news. Implementation problems and overshooting the ambitions for production is my guess.
The graphical downgrade is like any other. Their target renders are built on strong pcs and when push came to shove consoles couldn't live up to that envisioned standard. Primary example is the Unreal 4 Engine demo that struggled to run on PS4, which was made a while before PS4 had even been announced. MS and Sony have been very conservative with consoles this gen which was probably part of their plan for incremental upgrades all along, which only makes sense because consoles were being sold at a loss last generation and their initial pricing points were outrageous or at least PS3. This gen they had to be conservative and a lot of developers overshot their technical expectations because of it including Andromeda which began testing its technology in pre-production around 2013 similar to DA:I which also had a much higher fidelity target render.
The animation is probably a scoping problem. They intended to have that kind of hand-touched animation throughout much more of the game but couldn't implement it in the end and we may never know why. It could be that some animators responsible left before getting even half of it done. It could be because they realized the budget would burn down too quickly with such animation across an entire game or maybe they planned on using that instead of a the dialogue system they went with which forced them to go the more conservative route of using FaceFX again.
I have a theory that Andromeda was initially planned to be more like what is in the game as in just the main plot and loyalty missions but then with auto-generated planets but none of the Dragon Age Inquisition metagame where each planet is like an open-world level but they realized the direction the game was going in was too narrow, the leadership partly changed (Chris Wynn and others left), the writers rewrote a lot of the plot to be more expansive following the former lead's departure and then once this direction was set they had to can the idea of using all-mocapped dialogue performances because it's simply unfeasible for the entire game if it's the size of content as DA:I.
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danishgambit
N3
A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 364 Likes: 367
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Post by danishgambit on May 9, 2017 2:37:10 GMT
So it's either:
- because consoles - PC render bait and switch - confusion in the studio
wonderful...
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 9, 2017 2:52:15 GMT
That's not that unusual, but downgrading facial animations is actually weird. Inquisition was using the same engine and it had way better facial animations and characters looks overall. They didn't downgrade. They just didn't finish, which is why Patch 1.05 addressed the most obvious stuff.
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RageUnderFire
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Origin: Aralakh
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Post by RageUnderFire on May 9, 2017 2:58:18 GMT
it's like their progressive degenerate employees hit the game with a neon hipster ugly stick
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