Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 12, 2023 8:41:19 GMT
I think the "everything has a combat solution now" thing is very much present in Dragon Age too. In DAO we had the persuasion skill and could talk our way through some problems but starting with DA2 it was almost exclusively "go there, kill things". Remember the bunch of hucksters that sell the totally authentic ashes of Andraste in DA2? I thought that would obviously be a "just go and talk to them" quest. What did we get? ODST ninjas in several waves which made me wonder which massive crime syndicate I just pissed off.
As Mr. Gaider said years ago... they've wanted less writing for years now.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 12, 2023 5:08:49 GMT
I would hope so too, but if the leak was anything near the truth then the next DA will be so different from BG3 (action game with some light RPG elements vs turn based party game with heavy RPG elements) that it might not matter, and the vibe I'm currently getting from this troubled project is anything but "developed well". I think the best that could realistically come from BG3's success is that some other dev studio will try their hand at that kind of game. I'm way more interested in Owlcat's "Rogue Trader" than DA4 for example. I blame myself for not specifying this in my original comment. I meant to allude how successful a well-made single-player title can be. I do agree with most here that BioWare has probably moved on from wanting to make any CRPG's, and I don't know if BG3's success would really move them back into that subgenre. Ah, sorry for misunderstanding. But yes, I do think that every successful single player game reinforces the awareness that they can be great products that are totally worth the time and effort put into creating them. I never understood why everything had to be multiplayer in the first place, other than it's probably easier to use multiplayer games as a storefront for microtransactions, so it's essentially easier money for less skill and effort.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 11, 2023 20:29:04 GMT
Just out of curiosity: how do pronouns work technically in Starfield? You pick them during character generation and then every NPC somehow knows this? Or is there more to it, like some augmented reality display overlay that tells you people's pronouns when you talk to them? Are there NPCs that have special pronouns and if yes, how does your character know?
I'd genuinely like to know.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 9, 2023 10:35:55 GMT
True... I should have worded that better. In my real life roleplay club for example, their reputation isn't bad as such, it's that they and their games are mostly forgotten. I am literally the only one in that gang who seems to be aware that BioWare still exists and that they're making another game. Same among my real life colleagues who game. No one knows about DA4 and no one seems to care. Well, they apparently supported the studio with the money made by the EA Sports division, and now that EA Sports and EA Entertainment are separate entities, that source of support has ended is what I understand. At the very least, my hope is BG3s success does more to reinforce that these games can be extraordinarily popular when developed well. One other factor here that we also need to consider is that EA has branched itself into two unique sectors: EA Games and EA Sports. The factors for success may be different now then it would have been had EA stayed as it was pre-2022. I would hope so too, but if the leak was anything near the truth then the next DA will be so different from BG3 (action game with some light RPG elements vs turn based party game with heavy RPG elements) that it might not matter, and the vibe I'm currently getting from this troubled project is anything but "developed well". I think the best that could realistically come from BG3's success is that some other dev studio will try their hand at that kind of game. I'm way more interested in Owlcat's "Rogue Trader" than DA4 for example.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 8, 2023 6:57:06 GMT
True... I should have worded that better. In my real life roleplay club for example, their reputation isn't bad as such, it's that they and their games are mostly forgotten. I am literally the only one in that gang who seems to be aware that BioWare still exists and that they're making another game. Same among my real life colleagues who game. No one knows about DA4 and no one seems to care. Well, they apparently supported the studio with the money made by the EA Sports division, and now that EA Sports and EA Entertainment are separate entities, that source of support has ended is what I understand. how big is your RP group? I've got at least three co workers and one of them is very much looking forward to Dreadwolf. Point is we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on such limited data. Seven. Plus a few colleagues and some people who are in neither group. They talked about Witcher and Cyberpunk, now about Starfield and BG3... you know, RPGs that are the general gaming audience is very much aware of. I dimly recall them being very "meh" about Andromeda, and one of them keeps coming back to ME2 to make jokes about "the game with the nursing cases" (dysfunctional companions). Most of them lost interest in Dragon Age with DA2. Of course that's a small sample size, but as few as they are I think they represent the average gamer outside the social media/fandom bubble pretty well. They're all working men with families so they pick the games they spend their free time with carefully, and it's very likely not going to be anything from BioWare since they are not even aware of it.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 8, 2023 5:34:52 GMT
Given how much money EA sunk into DA4 with all its reboots and delays and what not it needs to sell really really well to make back even a part of the cost that piled up over all those years. It's not like hundreds of people at BioWare worked for free on those failed attempts. And given how their reputation is at an all time low now... well, good luck. They're going to need it. To be fair, it's not like they're supporting the studio out of charity. They either believe it to be a worthy investment and have faith in the outcome, or Bioware has some unknown leverage over EA's stakeholders. I imagine the former is far more likely. Also people here vastly overrate just how badly Bioware's reputation is. People don't actually think about BioWare that much at all. Actually if I hop on Twitter, BG3's success has people wistfully recalling Dragon Age. People are actually more likely to support a new RPG now, not less. True... I should have worded that better. In my real life roleplay club for example, their reputation isn't bad as such, it's that they and their games are mostly forgotten. I am literally the only one in that gang who seems to be aware that BioWare still exists and that they're making another game. Same among my real life colleagues who game. No one knows about DA4 and no one seems to care. Well, they apparently supported the studio with the money made by the EA Sports division, and now that EA Sports and EA Entertainment are separate entities, that source of support has ended is what I understand.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 7, 2023 19:04:18 GMT
Given how much money EA sunk into DA4 with all its reboots and delays and what not it needs to sell really really well to make back even a part of the cost that piled up over all those years. It's not like hundreds of people at BioWare worked for free on those failed attempts. And given how their reputation is at an all time low now... well, good luck. They're going to need it.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 5, 2023 22:17:35 GMT
Andromeda was good for a few laughs but the rather mediocre quality was pretty obvious from the get go. Just look at Scott's weird body proportions, how did that get through QA?
While it had the best single player combat of the ME series and played notably less clunky than any of its predecessors it just didn't manage to make me care about the story and characters. It's a respectable result given the circumstances surrounding its development, the storytelling just wasn't for me.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 5, 2023 6:28:18 GMT
The reason why BioWare tends to start their projects from scratch instead of building on useable parts of the previous ones is most likely spaghetti code. When you get a project done but know it's unneccessarily convoluted on the inside then it might be best to just scrap it and start over, because building on such a base and expand on it usually is a complete fricking nightmare.
And at least Inquisition must have been spaghetti code city - the fact that they capitulated to something like the banter bug, which is essentially a timer that plays audio files with a few conditions attached to it is very telling. And I'd be surprised if they wanted to re-use DAI's messed up hitboxes in combat. From the outside it really looks like one of those "clean up with a match and a shovel" jobs.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 3, 2023 11:43:03 GMT
During conversation he picked all the options that stated that he didn't want anything to do with this super original new plot and the NPCs kept repeating "you're a part of this now". To be fair, in most video games or indeed most tabletop campaigns, you can't really opt out of the main plot either. It's discourteous It's not like you could, say, peace out of being a Spectre and hunting Saren in ME1. True... but was there a dialogue option to even say that in ME1? The base of the plot in ME1 was that the galaxy was in danger and Shepard was the best guy/girl to handle it. In Starfield you're a miner, not someone who's out there to handle galactic threats, then some ME1 happens and you're told to come along, pronto. You can object but every NPC response walks right over you which I personally don't find a good start for an important cooperation. Of course every story based game needs some rails to get and keep the narrative going. Some implement these rails well, and some - like Starfield - have all the grace and subtlety of a six pound sledgehammer.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 3, 2023 7:54:08 GMT
A friend streamed about half an hour of the game's beginning, until he got to another planet or some such. I thought it looked nice but played underwhelming with anemic plink plink combat. During conversation he picked all the options that stated that he didn't want anything to do with this super original new plot and the NPCs kept repeating "you're a part of this now". You could pick some faction allegiance during character generation and we had no idea who those people were. Eh. Now I'm in no hurry to get it myself.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 2, 2023 21:37:30 GMT
Interesting.
I only very dimly remember the VTM V5 rules, but if they are going to use these then being an Elder coming out of a long torpor might make the protagonist just as wimpy as a neonate, it's just a wimp with a different back story. The story about the Second Inquisition is right out of V5, no? I remember an introductory scenario set in Berlin with the Second Inquisition having helicopters full of GSG9 squads after you...
Now that new dev studio doesn't seem to have too much experience with the RPG genre but some people grow with the challenge presented so let's hope the best.
EDIT: also, yeah... we're going to call this "Bloodlines 2" but we want it to be really different from Bloodlines 1...
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 29, 2023 9:34:42 GMT
I think that Mr. McKay understands business... but there doesn't seem to be much of an interface between business people like him and the design leads, to establish that their design is doable with the time and resources available, including the graphics engine they are going to use. Coding related project planning is a difficult beast. I don't work in the gaming industry but I code for a living, and there's often "that moment" when I stumble onto details during coding where there's a logical mistake in the very concept that either needs a big workaround or a redesign of at least part of that concept. And these details are often so small that I wouldn't have spotted them if I had been sitting in the design meeting. In retrospect (which is always easy, I know) maybe something smaller like Joplin would have been a good morale (and bottom line) boosting win, a stepping stone to bigger things. Alas. I'm not sure I agree with the Joplin logic per se for this very reason. BioWare's release schegule has been enough of a mess as it has been that to basically have a side game and then end up waiting even longer, which would have been the likely outcome, to wait for the proper sequel to Inquisition? Side games within the setting do have some appeal to me, but I don't think given the situation that Bioware Can develop them. True... I was just thinking "maybe a smaller thing they can do with some confidence than a bigger thing they seem to have so much trouble with". And who knows, it might have been the start of something new and good (at the cost of the Solas storyline, yes, but it's been so many years anyway...).
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 29, 2023 9:09:03 GMT
Maybe, it would be quite understandable. It is a lot of pressure, and crunch can be very demoralizing because it often means that the working rank and file suffer for the mistakes of their managers who probably collect a higher salary and still go home on time. They need some inspiring leadership that has a clear vision and who can rally them behind that vision. Good leadership in general is invaluable. But that is a rant for another time. Probably what they have been stuck with for a long time now. Clear that there is a lot of, or at least was, a lot of people with vision within the company but that ambition may've exceeded their grasp in a lot of ways and technical and business realities just keep getting in the way. BioWare seems very good at the game making side of things and its clear they have devs that are hungry to make the type of games they want to make but they keep on crashing into walls and its growing clearer and clearer no one really understands business. I think that Mr. McKay understands business... but there doesn't seem to be much of an interface between business people like him and the design leads, to establish that their design is doable with the time and resources available, including the graphics engine they are going to use. Coding related project planning is a difficult beast. I don't work in the gaming industry but I code for a living, and there's often "that moment" when I stumble onto details during coding where there's a logical mistake in the very concept that either needs a big workaround or a redesign of at least part of that concept. And these details are often so small that I wouldn't have spotted them if I had been sitting in the design meeting. In retrospect (which is always easy, I know) maybe something smaller like Joplin would have been a good morale (and bottom line) boosting win, a stepping stone to bigger things. Alas.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 29, 2023 8:41:22 GMT
I would have loved Joplin. I'm so tired of rah-rah-world-devouring-evil stories so a smaller scale would have been fantastic. Also the idea of being on my own with a small group of friends because the people in power do nothing and being an unsung hero in the end sounded very appealing. Morrison. I have no idea how they even came up with this. Anthem should have taught them that they need way more experience to do a good multiplayer game. Many dev studios are light years ahead of BioWare in this genre. It's good they went back to a singleplayer approach, but I still would have preferred Joplin I think. I'm not sure why they kept rebooting their work. To me it looks that all they know is that they want to make a game but just can't decide on the details. I think they're gun shy. Maybe, it would be quite understandable. It is a lot of pressure, and crunch can be very demoralizing because it often means that the working rank and file suffer for the mistakes of their managers who probably collect a higher salary and still go home on time. They need some inspiring leadership that has a clear vision and who can rally them behind that vision. Good leadership in general is invaluable. But that is a rant for another time.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 29, 2023 8:03:05 GMT
Oh dear.
My first game that I played a lot was PacMan on the Atari 2600, connected to my parents old black and white TV screen. After that, I played on the Commodore C64 a lot. The first game I bought and played for a long time was Microprose's "Gunship", complete with a cardboard keyboard overlay for all the keybindings.
This was followed by Dungeon Master and Battle of Britain on the Atari 1040ST, and then it was off to PC land with Wing Commander and Doom.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 29, 2023 7:50:33 GMT
I would have loved Joplin. I'm so tired of rah-rah-world-devouring-evil stories so a smaller scale would have been fantastic. Also the idea of being on my own with a small group of friends because the people in power do nothing and being an unsung hero in the end sounded very appealing.
Morrison. I have no idea how they even came up with this. Anthem should have taught them that they need way more experience to do a good multiplayer game. Many dev studios are light years ahead of BioWare in this genre.
It's good they went back to a singleplayer approach, but I still would have preferred Joplin I think.
I'm not sure why they kept rebooting their work. To me it looks that all they know is that they want to make a game but just can't decide on the details.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 28, 2023 9:16:06 GMT
Based on a recent tweet from Sheryl Chee ("They cut off my leg and expect me to run a marathon.") I would expect that crunch time is about to start or already has. I suspect that the game that was supposedly played through from start to end is a complete skeleton and lots and lots of the actual content is still missing. And if Sheryl Chee is part of the marathon crunch then that includes writing (unless she's doing other things too). It's really awful, it seems each game turns out to be a bigger development disaster than the previous one despite the all new management. But if you can play a game from start to finish. The story musst be done. Maybe some side quest. But how can you play it from start to finish if it is a skeleton. That doesn't make sense for me. If they have said we can play the game now. I would get it. But with the start to finish part i don't. I sound like EA. That's corpo speak for you. That you can play the game from start to finish just means that there's at least a placeholder for every main quest. Imagine a version of Dragon Age Inquisition where only the main story quests are implemented. You start in the first of them, going to Haven, and you can just do the next story quest from there without any power requirement and so on. While you do the quests lots of non-vital NPCs are missing and dialogues have placeholders so you can just breeze through them. You can reach the end. Congratulations, you have played through the game and the statement is true.
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Gileadan
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ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 28, 2023 8:36:06 GMT
I get the feeling that Dreadwolf's situation is completely absurd now. Supposedly, someone played it from start to end weeks ago, and Mark Darrah's Triage Games is here to help finalize it. But it might be released as late as 2025. What is that now, two years of "finalizing"? Did the meaning of that word change when I wasn't looking? I'm also beginning to wonder that when Mr. Darrah said that the game was in good hands he might actually have been referring to himself (and in that case, very likely not been wrong). What amazes me the most is that Darrah keeps emphasizing that he only advises in the area of story. The Story should be long finished. What are they doing? I fear it sound like a reboot.
Based on a recent tweet from Sheryl Chee ("They cut off my leg and expect me to run a marathon.") I would expect that crunch time is about to start or already has. I suspect that the game that was supposedly played through from start to end is a complete skeleton and lots and lots of the actual content is still missing. And if Sheryl Chee is part of the marathon crunch then that includes writing (unless she's doing other things too). It's really awful, it seems each game turns out to be a bigger development disaster than the previous one despite the all new management.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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gileadan
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ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 27, 2023 9:52:15 GMT
I think the writing has been on the wall for a while now, beginning with the "we are excited to tell you more next year" followed by BioWare remaining almost completely silent until about right now. The frankly terrible looking leak, however real that was. Outside help (Mark Darrah's Triage Games) being needed to "finalize" the game.
I've been wondering for years how a company can stay afloat without producing anything worthwhile and now we know - they mooched off EA Sports and now that's not happening anymore and they have to swim or sink based on their own products.
It remains to be seen how many of the remaining crew will actually stick around through another soul killing crunch to sacrifice their time for a company that might well axe them too as soon as their services are no longer needed. If I were employed at BioWare right now I'd be working on my exit strategy and avoid as much of the coming crunch as possible.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 25, 2023 20:00:39 GMT
I'd love an early open access for the next Dragon Age just to see where it's going but I don't think it would work with BioWare's development cycles. Open access would require a stable series of early builds and a willingness to listen to fan feedback, but BioWare seems to potter around aimlessly for a bit and then crunch out their product in 18 months. I doubt you could somehow fit open access into that given how they seem to hastily slap their game together two days before the last deadline.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 25, 2023 13:45:27 GMT
I get the feeling that Dreadwolf's situation is completely absurd now.
Supposedly, someone played it from start to end weeks ago, and Mark Darrah's Triage Games is here to help finalize it.
But it might be released as late as 2025. What is that now, two years of "finalizing"? Did the meaning of that word change when I wasn't looking? I'm also beginning to wonder that when Mr. Darrah said that the game was in good hands he might actually have been referring to himself (and in that case, very likely not been wrong).
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 25, 2023 7:14:50 GMT
Do you know what really upsets me? This couldn't happen here. In Sweden we have a law that basically says "first one hired is the last to go", meaning that the longer you worked at a place the more difficult it is for you to be let go. For example, I started my work 5 years ago at the uni, and we've hired four new administrators since - if times get tough they would have to kick out all of them before they could touch me, and even then they are compelled by the law to make a good attempt to find me a new job within the uni first. Only small businesses can sometimes make exceptions. Luke and Mary would have both been protected here, likely at least been guaranteed another job within EA, and the others would have been way more covered because the lay offs would have had to be negotiated with the unions. It fucking blows that this type of protection isn't a thing everywhere! Unionize for fuck's sake! Good law, really. I'm lucky to work at an Austrian company in Germany that greatly values long time employees. There are unwritten laws that the owners, classic benevolent patriarchs right out of the book, take care of "their people". When the great banking crisis of 2008 hit, they traveled to every plant and told people that they would do their damnedest to keep everyone on board, and they kept their word. As a result they recovered much faster than the competition. Of course there is also another unwritten law and it says "You shall not go on strike". It may look fishy but it works well - there is a big feeling of "the world is big but we're in it together" feeling going on. Unions seem very much an afterthought and there is no big interest in them.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 11:53:05 GMT
Says who? We can't know of course how anyone new would write in the 'BioWare style' will actually be able to write in that style, how good or bad at writing they will be, but other character driven stories have been writen by other companies and by other people within BioWare. It hurts but I wouldn't take this to mean anything dramatic like 'the old ways are dead'. Going to have to see a lot more evidence of this...especially considering the old ways have made more of a return. Well, I for one think that a writer of Mary Kirby's caliber won't be easy to replace. Anyone can churn out a bunch of oneliners but it takes some skill to tread the line between humour that works in a tense situation and outright comedy. But I suppose we won't know until the next project after DAD... whatever that may be, if any.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,844 Likes: 7,117
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177
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7,117
Gileadan
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gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 11:39:20 GMT
I've seen on Twitter devs from Casey Hudson's Humanoid Studios and Jenifer Hepler who works now at Thought Pennies reach out to the peeps who were laid off, encouraging them to check out their careers pages and offering to make introductions to anyone who is looking for a job and doesn't have something lined up, which is dope. Ah, that's very nice of them. Hopefully they'll find something more stable where their work will be properly appreciated. Who knows, in the long run they might better off than staying with BioWare.
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