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Post by Wynne on Feb 11, 2017 3:48:37 GMT
I chose redeem. I might always choose redeem.
It's essentially: I don't want to kill you, Solas. I want to break you. In the best way. For kind reasons, for cruel reasons, for everything you could teach us and all the good you could do, I want to upend your world like you did mine.
I still want to avenge Felassen. But that is me, not my Inquisitors. They don't know what he did. They don't know what Cole meant when he said "the slow arrow broke in the sad wolf's jaws." They either think he's a misguided extremist who could be helped or could be useful, or a complete bastard, and killing a bastard is far less satisfying than showing him a mirror.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 12, 2017 0:58:26 GMT
My Inquisitor chose to actively hunt down Solas to finish him and his genocidal plan. This Inquisitor pretty much never had Solas in the party though, and the pair simply had middling respect for each other. The Inquisitor was not an elf, not romancing Solas, and leaned towards traditional Andrastian views. He wound up pretty "elfy," with the anchor, numerous relics, friendly associations with clans, and drinking from the well, but evil, however misguided, with get repeatedly whacked by his mace and shield. My Inquisitor was a pretty charming fellow; if he shows up again, he might stumble into persuading Solas before finishing the battle.
I do have an alternate where I spent more time with Solas and was pretty friendly with him. I do think he is a pretty neat character. He just doesn't fit into my canon tapestry in any meaningful way.
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Post by The Sith Emperor on Feb 12, 2017 20:00:25 GMT
Kill. He's far outlived his natural lifespan. It's time for him and all the other Elven "gods" to be put to rest.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2017 1:10:30 GMT
Kill. He's far outlived his natural lifespan. It's time for him and all the other Elven "gods" to be put to rest. Well, here's the problem... in world of Thedas it's mortals living such short lives what's "unnatural".
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Post by xerrai on Feb 13, 2017 2:10:52 GMT
Kill. He's far outlived his natural lifespan. It's time for him and all the other Elven "gods" to be put to rest. Well, here's the problem... in world of Thedas it's mortals living such short lives what's "unnatural". For the elves perhaps, but we have little to no knowledge on the lifespans of the other mortals (qunari, humans, dwarves) prior to the veil.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2017 2:44:10 GMT
Well, here's the problem... in world of Thedas it's mortals living such short lives what's "unnatural". For the elves perhaps, but we have little to no knowledge on the lifespans of the other mortals (qunari, humans, dwarves) prior to the veil. True, we don't. But we do know that they were also different - at least in some way - back then. Otherwise Solas wouldn't have said "the Veil has cut most people's conscious connection to the Fade." And as to why we don't hear that much about mortal races... well, I have my own hypotheses about that, but it's not yet something that has a lot of hard evidence behind it.
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Post by Prince on Feb 13, 2017 8:14:05 GMT
For the elves perhaps, but we have little to no knowledge on the lifespans of the other mortals (qunari, humans, dwarves) prior to the veil. True, we don't. But we do know that they were also different - at least in some way - back then. Otherwise Solas wouldn't have said "the Veil has cut most people's conscious connection of the Fade." And as to why we don't hear that much about mortal races... well, I have my own hypotheses about that, but it's not yet something that has a lot of hard evidence behind it. Solas state that being " immortal" (In the sense of not aging)was one of the features of being elves.So I think that the other races have never been like the "immortal" elves with or without the veil they can't achieve that.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 13, 2017 15:02:37 GMT
True, we don't. But we do know that they were also different - at least in some way - back then. Otherwise Solas wouldn't have said "the Veil has cut most people's conscious connection of the Fade." And as to why we don't hear that much about mortal races... well, I have my own hypotheses about that, but it's not yet something that has a lot of hard evidence behind it. Solas state that being " immortal" (In the sense of not aging)was one of the features of being elves. So I think that the other races have never been like the "immortal" elves with or without the veil they can't achieve that. No, we don't know anything about immortality being an 'elven' feature only. In fact, just like everybody else, elves are mortal now, hence we don't know what the Veil have changed for other races, if diminishing their connection to the Fade got rid of their immortality. We also do know that multiple other races have experienced some sort of significant change from what they were before at one point or another - we know something happened to Qunari and we know something has happened to dwarves. Dwarves in fact were so different before that - according to Cole - 'even dwarves don't remember dwarves'. And the one dwarf who had her connection to the Titan restored not only regained ability to wield some kind of magic, but - according to pages from her journal that we can find in Skyhold after Descent - starts perceiving time differently, as if things that take days for her seem like they were merely hours or moments ago. While this gives no clear answers, it also happens to be how immortal ancient elves perceive the passage of time - otherwise they wouldn't be calling mortals 'quicklings'.
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Post by Prince on Feb 14, 2017 14:09:52 GMT
Solas state that being " immortal" (In the sense of not aging)was one of the features of being elves. So I think that the other races have never been like the "immortal" elves with or without the veil they can't achieve that. No, we don't know anything about immortality being an 'elven' feature only. In fact, just like everybody else, elves are mortal now, hence we don't know what the Veil have changed for other races, if diminishing their connection to the Fade got rid of their immortality. We also do know that multiple other races have experienced some sort of significant change from what they were before at one point or another - we know something happened to Qunari and we know something has happened to dwarves. Dwarves in fact were so different before that - according to Cole - 'even dwarves don't remember dwarves'. And the one dwarf who had her connection to the Titan restored not only regained ability to wield some kind of magic, but - according to pages from her journal that we can find in Skyhold after Descent - starts perceiving time differently, as if things that take days for her seem like they were merely hours or moments ago. While this gives no clear answers, it also happens to be how immortal ancient elves perceive the passage of time - otherwise they wouldn't be calling mortals 'quicklings'. Q1::The legends of elven immortality...did they use magic to increase their lifespan? Solas::No,It was simply part of being elven,the subtle beauty of their magic was the effect, not the cause of their natureThis statements seem to be clear enough,the elves were immortals and it was part of their nature,the other races were never mentioned to possess the same features.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 14, 2017 14:44:21 GMT
Q1:: The legends of elven immortality...did they use magic to increase their lifespan? Solas::No,It was simply part of being elven,the subtle beauty of their magic was the effect,not the cause of their nature This statements seem to be clear enough,the elves were immortals and it was part of their nature,the other races were never mentioned to possess the same features. The question was specifically about elven immortality - hence you're given an answer about elves and not other races. Also - the fact that elves were immortal and it was "part of their nature" didn't change the fact that this "part of their nature" got pretty much wiped by the Veil. Now the elves are living not particularly longer than other races. So - if the Veil could strip "part of their nature", question remains what it did to other races. And so far that question has been left unanswered.
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Post by Prince on Feb 14, 2017 23:25:36 GMT
Q1:: The legends of elven immortality...did they use magic to increase their lifespan? Solas::No,It was simply part of being elven,the subtle beauty of their magic was the effect,not the cause of their nature This statements seem to be clear enough,the elves were immortals and it was part of their nature,the other races were never mentioned to possess the same features. The question was specifically about elven immortality - hence you're given an answer about elves and not other races. Also - the fact that elves were immortal and it was "part of their nature" didn't change the fact that this "part of their nature" got pretty much wiped by the Veil. Now the elves are living not particularly longer than other races. So - if the Veil could strip "part of their nature", question remains what it did to other races. And so far that question has been left unanswered. The answer Solas has provided imply that being immortal was part of their nature,which imply that the absence of the veil is a necessary condition for their immortality but not a sufficient one. Solas would not have bothered to make this remark about their nature if all that it takes to be immortal is the absence of the veil,it is far more reasonable to believe that the other races weren't like the elves at all in the veiless world.
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Post by lovelypumpkin on Feb 14, 2017 23:44:56 GMT
I always go with Redeem, now that I know it's a possible option...
In my first play-through of the Trespasser DLC my Inquisitor wasn't on friendly term with Solas, rarely ever spoke/listened to him and always had a negative retort because I thought he was incredibly self-absorbed and annoying (which he is quite the opposite), so I just chose every option in the game that would piss him off even more. So pissed off that I didn't even get the option to Redeem him.
After my other play-through(s) where my Inquisitor was either his lover or bestie (aw) I realized how incredible of a character Solas had turned out to be, and since then I have never been able to choose anything but to Redeem him.
So yeah, long story short: I always redeem him, because I realized that he's too amazing of a character to choose otherwise.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 15, 2017 0:25:30 GMT
The question was specifically about elven immortality - hence you're given an answer about elves and not other races. Also - the fact that elves were immortal and it was "part of their nature" didn't change the fact that this "part of their nature" got pretty much wiped by the Veil. Now the elves are living not particularly longer than other races. So - if the Veil could strip "part of their nature", question remains what it did to other races. And so far that question has been left unanswered. The answer Solas has provided imply that being immortal was part of their nature,which imply that the absence of the veil is a necessary condition for their immortality but not a sufficient one. Solas would not have bothered to make this remark about their nature if all that it takes to be immortal is the absence of the veil,it is far more reasonable to believe that the other races weren't like the elves at all in the veiless world. You say it's far more reasonable, yet you provide no sufficient reasons for it - and no, Solas stating that elven immortality is 'part of their nature' does not follow that "the Veil is a necessary condition for their immortality but not a sufficient one". Like I said - that "part of their nature" was impacted hard and it didn't matter whether it was part of them or not - It. Was. Gone. So was "most people's conscious connection to the Fade" and the Veil is directly responsible for it. And we're still talking in the context of Inquisitor asking a specific question about specific topic - we know nothing of other races, because other races were not included in the answer focused specifically on elven immortality. Hence there's no reason whatsoever to present this exchange as something that makes any definitive statements about immortality (or lack thereof) of all races.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 15, 2017 12:44:23 GMT
If my inquisitor had a choice they'd join him but as that isn't an option kill rather than making him betray his cause.
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Post by Prince on Feb 15, 2017 21:20:21 GMT
The answer Solas has provided imply that being immortal was part of their nature,which imply that the absence of the veil is a necessary condition for their immortality but not a sufficient one. Solas would not have bothered to make this remark about their nature if all that it takes to be immortal is the absence of the veil,it is far more reasonable to believe that the other races weren't like the elves at all in the veiless world. You say it's far more reasonable, yet you provide no sufficient reasons for it - and no, Solas stating that elven immortality is 'part of their nature' does not follow that "the Veil is a necessary condition for their immortality but not a sufficient one". Like I said - that "part of their nature" was impacted hard and it didn't matter whether it was part of them or not - It. Was. Gone. So was "most people's conscious connection to the Fade" and the Veil is directly responsible for it. And we're still talking in the context of Inquisitor asking a specific question about specific topic - we know nothing of other races, because other races were not included in the answer focused specifically on elven immortality. Hence there's no reason whatsoever to present this exchange as something that makes any definitive statements about immortality (or lack thereof) of all races. How does not follow? 1)Ancient elves are by their own nature immortal. 2)If there is no veil Ancient elves are immortal. 3)There is a veil,therefore Ancient elves are not immortal. The other races such as humans,Qunari and Dwarves were never implied to be immortal in any point NOR by Solas,NOR by Abelas,NOR by Felassan,NOR by anyone who lived in the veiless world,you would expect that the word Shamlen wouldn't make any sense if everyone was like the ancient elves...in fact there is no point in the word itself if there was no difference between the lifespawn of all these different races.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2017 12:44:37 GMT
Assuming that DA4's hero and the Inquisitor will work together directly or indirectly, I don't think Lavellan (romance) can be trusted as an ally. Her feelings are bound to get in the way.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 5, 2017 15:11:35 GMT
Huh. You know, I honestly expected the "redeemers" to be a distinct minority against the "killers". Sixty votes in and around 70% wants to redeem him if possible. Personality aside, Solas has done or will do some pretty terrible things in order to achieve his goal. I expected most to kill him in their anger toward his audacity to leave thousands, if not millions of lives forfeit. Even if his reasons may be somewhat sympathetic to some. As a redeemer myself, I am a little bit surprised to see the results. I honestly thought the 'killers' would get at least 60% of the split. We need to take into account that the poll is in itself flawed because is mostly based on the votes from hardcore DA fans,by that I mean that a lot of DA players are not here at all,that's why most may want to reedem Solas,but there are others(your average player) who may not even know what Trespasser is and I'm sure there will be many who will play only DA4 thus will have no reason to care about Solas at all.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 5, 2017 15:22:51 GMT
Huh. You know, I honestly expected the "redeemers" to be a distinct minority against the "killers". Sixty votes in and around 70% wants to redeem him if possible. Personality aside, Solas has done or will do some pretty terrible things in order to achieve his goal. I expected most to kill him in their anger toward his audacity to leave thousands, if not millions of lives forfeit. Even if his reasons may be somewhat sympathetic to some. As a redeemer myself, I am a little bit surprised to see the results. I honestly thought the 'killers' would get at least 60% of the split. We need to take into account that the poll is in itself flawed because is mostly based on the votes from hardcore DA fans,by that I mean that a lot of DA players are not here at all,that's why most may want to reedem Solas,but there are others(your average player) who may not even know what Trespasser is and I'm sure there will be many who will play only DA4 thus will have no reason to care about Solas at all. A bit off, bit I just thought about: what would be the ratio of redeem–kill in the case of Anders? I feel the people hates Anders better than Solas.
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Post by oyabun on Mar 5, 2017 22:15:31 GMT
We need to take into account that the poll is in itself flawed because is mostly based on the votes from hardcore DA fans,by that I mean that a lot of DA players are not here at all,that's why most may want to reedem Solas,but there are others(your average player) who may not even know what Trespasser is and I'm sure there will be many who will play only DA4 thus will have no reason to care about Solas at all. A bit off, bit I just thought about: what would be the ratio of redeem–kill in the case of Anders? I feel the people hates Anders better than Solas. The average gamer probably did not even finished DA2 so I don't see them caring about Anders in any way.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 5, 2017 22:25:36 GMT
A bit off, bit I just thought about: what would be the ratio of redeem–kill in the case of Anders? I feel the people hates Anders better than Solas. The average gamer probably did not even finished DA2 so I don't see them caring about Anders in any way (Oh, I should have been more specific. I'm thinking specifically those who have completed the game and know who's Anders and Solas. I'm really sorry that I was not clear...)
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Post by oyabun on Mar 6, 2017 0:13:08 GMT
The average gamer probably did not even finished DA2 so I don't see them caring about Anders in any way Oh, I should have been more specific. I'm thinking specifically those who have completed the game and know who's Anders and Solas. I'm really sorry that I was not clear... I believe that the majority of players in fantasy do have a simpaty for mages,so I expect a similar outcome of this Thread for Anders.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 6, 2017 0:40:58 GMT
I don't know. Yes, probably more people feel sympathy for mages, but mages aren't Anders. I experienced, that people can redeem Solas, but what Anders did, they consider unforgivable. And I don't understand why Solas is acceptable, decent betrayer, while Anders is a rat mad mass murderer betrayer (truly among them only Solas betrayer, Anders not) – Interesting. So: I expect a different outcome.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 6, 2017 20:48:43 GMT
We need to take into account that the poll is in itself flawed because is mostly based on the votes from hardcore DA fans,by that I mean that a lot of DA players are not here at all,that's why most may want to reedem Solas,but there are others(your average player) who may not even know what Trespasser is and I'm sure there will be many who will play only DA4 thus will have no reason to care about Solas at all. A bit off, bit I just thought about: what would be the ratio of redeem–kill in the case of Anders? I feel the people hates Anders better than Solas. Wait until after Solas does something extreme. Then it will be fair comparison. Ah wait, Solas WAS responsible for something being blown up... Anyways, why not? Not like I haven't been willing to give other characters a chance. Although I support kicking Justice out of Anders after what he made Anders do.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 6, 2017 21:42:51 GMT
A bit off, bit I just thought about: what would be the ratio of redeem–kill in the case of Anders? I feel the people hates Anders better than Solas. Wait until after Solas does something extreme. Then it will be fair comparison. Ah wait, Solas WAS responsible for something being blown up...Anyways, why not? Not like I haven't been willing to give other characters a chance. Although I support kicking Justice out of Anders after what he made Anders do.Yes, Solas already responsible for much people's death. And who are Solas' people now? The modern elves adapted to the modern world, they want the ancient world back? Solas angry, if the Inquisitor behave as a god. But he? Let's clarify: I don't hate Solas. All my character in friendship with him, and I don't think, that Solas is evil. I redeemed him because on one hand the Inquisitor can't kill him at the moment, on the other hand, he can think about, what he want to do. But what he did with his ball accidentally(? ), and what he wants to do at least questionable, and dangerous for all peoples on Thedas, and can cause much more deadly damage, than this explosion and the rebellion together. Justice and Anders responsible equally, if not Anders responsible more, for the sake of the truth. So many people blame Justice, but as I see, the explosion rather Anders' method, than Justice's. Anders is not some kind cute funny boy, who corrupted by the cruel Justice. This was the result of an excellent collaboration! Justice isn't worse than Anders, and Anders isn't better than Justice. As I see. And I think Anders don't wants to kick (exorcism?) Justice. He only wants the separation, if Justice wouldn't be damage. He feels responsible for Justice (at least in friendship, if he doesn't hate himself and Justice too). Summa summarum, Solas already killed many people, just as Anders, but his cause is not real, his people already exist only in his dream, the modern elves need freedom, and a territory, where they can live in peace, not to back the world, what they never knew. Okay, perhaps I'm wrong. Solas more dangerous than Anders. Anders goals already fulfilled, so Justice calmed down, they can live in peace, and Anders not a demigod even with Justice. Why can people accept Solas more than Anders? Anders's goal was much more logical and understandable. Solas' goal a (demi)god's goal, to restore a forgotten world, with the change of the world's nature, and with unknown implications. Anders goal was the freedom. (Okay, I got it: a 1000-year-old, soft-spoken [demi]god more exciting and impressive than an angry and mannerless Abomination )
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Post by Iddy on Mar 8, 2017 15:20:12 GMT
Wait until after Solas does something extreme. Then it will be fair comparison. Ah wait, Solas WAS responsible for something being blown up...Anyways, why not? Not like I haven't been willing to give other characters a chance. Although I support kicking Justice out of Anders after what he made Anders do.Yes, Solas already responsible for much people's death. And who are Solas' people now? The modern elves adapted to the modern world, they want the ancient world back? Solas angry, if the Inquisitor behave as a god. But he? Let's clarify: I don't hate Solas. All my character in friendship with him, and I don't think, that Solas is evil. I redeemed him because on one hand the Inquisitor can't kill him at the moment, on the other hand, he can think about, what he want to do. But what he did with his ball accidentally(? ), and what he wants to do at least questionable, and dangerous for all peoples on Thedas, and can cause much more deadly damage, than this explosion and the rebellion together. Justice and Anders responsible equally, if not Anders responsible more, for the sake of the truth. So many people blame Justice, but as I see, the explosion rather Anders' method, than Justice's. Anders is not some kind cute funny boy, who corrupted by the cruel Justice. This was the result of an excellent collaboration! Justice isn't worse than Anders, and Anders isn't better than Justice. As I see. And I think Anders don't wants to kick (exorcism?) Justice. He only wants the separation, if Justice wouldn't be damage. He feels responsible for Justice (at least in friendship, if he doesn't hate himself and Justice too). Summa summarum, Solas already killed many people, just as Anders, but his cause is not real, his people already exist only in his dream, the modern elves need freedom, and a territory, where they can live in peace, not to back the world, what they never knew. Okay, perhaps I'm wrong. Solas more dangerous than Anders. Anders goals already fulfilled, so Justice calmed down, they can live in peace, and Anders not a demigod even with Justice. Why can people accept Solas more than Anders? Anders's goal was much more logical and understandable. Solas' goal a (demi)god's goal, to restore a forgotten world, with the change of the world's nature, and with unknown implications. Anders goal was the freedom. (Okay, I got it: a 1000-year-old, soft-spoken [demi]god more exciting and impressive than an angry and mannerless Abomination )Solas is a lot like Corypheus. Both of them would cause the death of many just because they can't accept the fact that their time is over.
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