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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 15:04:42 GMT
I was just wondering if the strong Elven leanings of the Inquisition made the game appealing to you?
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 15:34:04 GMT
I played first as a human mage female, and liked it just fine.
What I dislike by my 5th PT is that the game only gives true nods to the Elven and Andrastian religions, ignoring Dwarves and Kossith/Qunari as irrelevant in their preferences, unless your preference as a Dwarf is to be andrastian.
And what I mean by preference is the dialogue extras you get for race and religion. I am currently aware of exactly one racial dialogue given to dwarf and Qunari that humans and elves don't get.
As a dwarf, you can say you believe in the Stone to Josephine. As a Qunari, you can give Iron Bull a greeting in the QUn language. Which he then rejects as inappropriate.
Andrastians and Dalish get way more than that. Additionally, Trespasser, which is super elfy, was only made because of the Solasmancers pretty much. Which meant it was built for Solasmancers, who are only allowed to be female elves, so of course it's elfy.
Then I remind myself that the game was originally human only protaganist (BLEH) and their main religion. Elves are the second most popular race in Thedas, so then they were added in first after humans. So a lot of their religion made it in. Then Dwarves, and it shows. Qunari must have been last to be added and that definitely shows, you may as well be an extra tall human.
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Post by warden on Nov 27, 2017 16:39:08 GMT
for Inquisition i don't know, but for future plot, yeap i'm totally turned off and with actually no expectations, as i don't find it interesting, all this veil and Solas shit, to be honest.
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 16:49:52 GMT
for Inquisition i don't know, but for future plot, yeap i'm totally turned off and with actually no expectations, as i don't find it interesting, all this veil and Solas shit, to be honest. Although Solas is absolutely going to show up, the next installment is Tevinter/Seheron. All the races as a protaganist can be super interesting there. human Mage Noble: part of the problem, or attempting to change the system from within CITY ELF, because Dalish does not make a lick of sense here. Either a slave yourself, seeking freedom, or a free elf trying to help your brethren. Dwarf from the Ambassadoria could bring back the flavor of Origins hardcore. Qunari- either as an especially abused slave or from another country or maybe a prisoner of war turned free. I don't know, they got a lot of interesting options here. I just hope that all the options get the same treatment instead of the game content being just human and elf focused with scraps of dev time through to dwarf and Qunari But one thing it really can't be is Dalish. That would be out of place. There wouldn't be a single clan in all of Tevinter, surely.
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Post by warden on Nov 27, 2017 16:55:10 GMT
for Inquisition i don't know, but for future plot, yeap i'm totally turned off and with actually no expectations, as i don't find it interesting, all this veil and Solas shit, to be honest. human Mage Noble: part of the problem, or attempting to change the system from within i hope humans are not limited to only mages, that would totally ruin any hope i could have left.
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 17:08:48 GMT
human Mage Noble: part of the problem, or attempting to change the system from within i hope humans are not limited to only mages, that would totally ruin any hope i could have left. I guess you could be the Failure of the Family then, because that's how all non mage children are treated. Humans have always been nobles, plain and simple. And in Tevinter, if you're noble, you have magic.
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Post by warden on Nov 27, 2017 17:12:48 GMT
i hope humans are not limited to only mages, that would totally ruin any hope i could have left. I guess you could be the Failure of the Family then, because that's how all non mage children are treated. Humans have always been nobles, plain and simple. And in Tevinter, if you're noble, you have magic. and? so because you say so if i want to play human in a future installment i have to play as a mage, fantastic.
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 17:18:59 GMT
I guess you could be the Failure of the Family then, because that's how all non mage children are treated. Humans have always been nobles, plain and simple. And in Tevinter, if you're noble, you have magic. and? so because you say so if i want to play human in a future installment i have to play as a mage, fantastic. I'm a player, not a DA Dev, so what I say is irrelevant to creation of said game. What makes Thedas is what makes Thedas. I'm sure they could write in Parents that loved you anyway in spite of not having magic and let you be a human non mage. But the rest of the snobby magisters better crack a comment about your failure to measure up or Bioware is being lazy. And you'll be excluded based on class from carrying Office. Just like only human NON mages could marry Anora/ Alistair, ONLY MAGES should be allowed to marry and hold office in Tevinter. The table's turned, Tevinter is different. Why would you want it to be the same as Southern Thedas? just go replay the first three games.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 27, 2017 17:19:45 GMT
No it didn't. If it did, I wouldn't have as many playthroughs as I do.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 27, 2017 17:24:32 GMT
i hope humans are not limited to only mages, that would totally ruin any hope i could have left. I guess you could be the Failure of the Family then, because that's how all non mage children are treated. Humans have always been nobles, plain and simple. And in Tevinter, if you're noble, you have magic. Not quite. In Origins, you could either be a Noble or a Circle Mage as a human. While yes the Circle Mage comes from a noble family(though we don't learn that until DA2) they aren't a noble. So it could be like that, just reversed. That said, "I'm still hoping the Inquisitor is the PC.
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Post by theascendent on Nov 27, 2017 17:25:29 GMT
It was interesting to see a less human centric story, and my main PC was a Male Elven Mage, learning the truth about their history was quite surprising and enthralling. Was it perfect? No. But it did impact my enjoyment positively.
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 17:30:23 GMT
I guess you could be the Failure of the Family then, because that's how all non mage children are treated. Humans have always been nobles, plain and simple. And in Tevinter, if you're noble, you have magic. Not quite. In Origins, you could either be a Noble or a Circle Mage as a human. While yes the Circle Mage comes from a noble family(though we don't learn that until DA2) they aren't a noble. So it could be like that, just reversed. That said, "I'm still hoping the Inquisitor is the PC. That human mage was also a noble, Amell. Their title was stripped from them, but they are of noble blood nonetheless. The Human MAge Origin is a cousin of Hawke. Because of their circumstances, they are barred from marrying Ali/Anora just as much as an elf or dwarf would be. I also find it unlikely they'll give that many Origins options. But I suppose in DAI, you are a Trevelyan either way. With your paragraph only slightly different from the non mage. But in DAI, being a mage was irrelevant. As Solas says, "we're all apostates now." And the Inquisitor got to be whoever they wanted to be, because of the Mark leveling the playing field. We're not going to have that in Tevinter. Both mages and non mages are free and can be noble, but it's a major disappointment in the family when a child is born without magical talent. It can and will bar you from holding a Magister's seat. And I'd like them to keep the classes meaningful in this fashion. Getting to play a non mage human noble in Tevinter that everyone treats the same is like getting your cake and eating it too. I want non mage classes to suffer the same ostricism that mages suffered in three games.
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Post by warden on Nov 27, 2017 17:35:46 GMT
and? so because you say so if i want to play human in a future installment i have to play as a mage, fantastic. I'm a player, not a DA Dev, so what I say is irrelevant to creation of said game. What makes Thedas is what makes Thedas. I'm sure they could write in Parents that loved you anyway in spite of not having magic and let you be a human non mage. But the rest of the snobby magisters better crack a comment about your failure to measure up or Bioware is being lazy. And you'll be excluded based on class from carrying Office. Just like only human NON mages could marry Anora/ Alistair, ONLY MAGES should be allowed to marry and hold office in Tevinter. The table's turned, Tevinter is different. Why would you want it to be the same as Southern Thedas? just go replay the first three games. you are speculating here or assuming that what you said is what it will be? i'm kinda lost. we already been in the northen thedas though, DA2 kirkwall aka free marches. "Tevinter is different. Why would you want it to be the same as Southern Thedas?" Yes Tevinter is different and? seems you are assuming a lot here, or you have knowledge i don't possess, like for example from where the player character is from. Anyway sending me to play other games like you are giving me an order, doesn't sound cool though, if you are pissed for something, you need to cool off, it will help you.
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Post by theascendent on Nov 27, 2017 17:37:45 GMT
You have to keep in mind, that it's only human noble mages who have it (relatively) easy in Tevinter. Elves are still subject to racial persecution, commoners and slaves are taught the barest minimal to stop them from getting possessed and I doubt they even acknowledge Qunari/Tal-Vasoth as people.
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Post by snook on Nov 27, 2017 17:44:12 GMT
In a positive way, yes.
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Post by phoray on Nov 27, 2017 17:46:42 GMT
you need to cool off, it will help you. Says the person who stated that the game would be entirely unplayable and not worth buying if they can't play a non mage human. I was just reacting to what I consider an absurd requirement before the game has even been announced. I also offered my opinion of how DA Bioware could handle such a requirement from it's players while maintaining the same meaningfulness that classes have had in all three games thus far. And it's simply this: If you are a human noble with no magical talent, that the other magisters will treat you like a nobody regardless of your last name. Because that's lore appropriate. And The Free Marches have always been considered as part of "southern Thedas". Because the real divide is not about hemisphere but about Tevinter Vs Everyone Else. So, no, Kirkwall was not Northern Thedas because they are not Tevinter. It's the same reason that where I live, Kentucky, is not called "The Southeast". There's a region across an ocean that gets that name, and they aren't sharing.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 27, 2017 17:47:55 GMT
The elven part was ok, also I don't do the SOlas romance(tried it, didn't like it). But it's nice to have some nods to elven culture. I would have liked the same for dwarves. Can't say much about Qunari, becauseI never played them. But I agree with phoray, that the dwarves (and obviously the Qunari) couldhave used some race only stuff too. SOmetimes, I do like, that my little Cadsh is kind of an outsider, not involved in the andrastian church, not in the mage/templar conflict etc. But that could have been handled a bit better. warden: I don't think, that phoray wants to tell you how to play. She is speculating based on the setting and the culture of the next game. It could be two human origins (if origins are a thing again): noble for the mage class and commoner for warrior and rogue. But if the setting is Tevinter, you won't probably not be able to play a rogue noble or a warrior noble, because it would go against the lore we know so far of Tevinter. They could skip this precidament alltogether and let your character start as a slave, who escapes, so no origin stories, who knows.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 27, 2017 17:57:11 GMT
I liked the fact that we got more elven lore but there were aspects to this that actually made it less enjoyable.
First was the fact that my Dalish seemed ignorant of so many things that they should have been aware of. Then there was the fact that they altered certain lore (3 mage rule is most noticeable) and people kept saying "as you know" as though it was common knowledge when in fact it wasn't. If I said my clan did things differently, I was told (by Solas among others) that it was because the Dalish had grown apart down the years. This totally contradicted previous lore than states the Dalish make a point of getting together every 10 years in order to ensure that the lore is consistently preserved because that is their main purpose in life. How would Solas know considering he had only just woken up and his experience of the Dalish would seem confined to just one clan that chased him off and whatever misconceptions Felassan gave him, his contact being with the most un-Dalish clan possible (compared with those we previously encountered in game and in the codices).
Second was the fact that my Dalish wasn't allowed to ask more questions or show more of a reaction to what they learned. When there have been such huge revelations impacting on their religion it would be natural to want to find out more detail. This was particularly true of a male elf, a female who romanced Solas getting more scope to express their feelings.
So in a way I would have preferred it if they had let my elven protagonist be a city elf. Then their ignorance would be understandable and the revelations would have less significance to them. It actually would have made more sense for a city elf to be at the Conclave as a servant than it did for a Dalish elf to travel all the way there from the Freemarches.
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 27, 2017 19:39:03 GMT
I was just wondering if the strong Elven leanings of the Inquisition made the game appealing to you? It did, which was surprising since I usually play humans first, and I liked the idea of all 3 of my DA protagonists being human mages. They obviously wrote with a human in mind first originally, and after the races were added, tried to keep the dialog neutral enough to fit all of them, most of the time. So it wasn't perfect. There's some weirdness with the Dalish Inquisitor not knowing some of their own lore, and sometimes knowing too much about human/Andrastian lore than they probably would have. But on the other hand, lots of places that felt natural to play as an elf. It does make sense that the Inquisitor is surprising somehow in their role as the Herlad, whether because they aren't human, are male, or they are a mage, etc. It also made the story more personal for me, since a lot the themes in DAI are about religion, and I could relate to the Dalish Inquisitor's story more.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 27, 2017 19:47:04 GMT
I was just wondering if the strong Elven leanings of the Inquisition made the game appealing to you? No more or less than the strong human leaning in Origins and the completely skewed to human in DA2. I liked (or loved, depending on my mood) the game for what it was. It wasn't perfect, but no game is and the leaning towards elves wasn't something I considered to be a flaw, but merely an aspect.
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Post by House Targaryen on Nov 27, 2017 21:47:40 GMT
I think the designers had a elven Inky protagonist in mind when they made the game. Its just a feeling I get. I didn't get that feeling when I played it as a human. There are a couple glaring mistakes that make your elven Inky look ignorant to their own lore, but otherwise it just seems to be tailored to elves as a protag.
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Post by Indomito on Nov 27, 2017 22:04:34 GMT
Not really. I always play human first.
The way i see it:
JoH >> More human lore.
Descent: More Dwarven lore.
Tresspaser: More elven and a bit of Qunari lore.
It´s not an exact formula anyways. I think DAI reveal a lot of new things, from the lore perspective.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 27, 2017 22:58:13 GMT
I enjoyed playing as a dwarf and a qunari more than playing as an elf, so not really.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 27, 2017 23:20:59 GMT
I play humans, and my answer is not at all. The impact of that is really only felt in the Temple of Mythal and in Trespasser. I don't feel that I had to have an elven PC to get the most out of the game and am perfectly fine with the way things play out. I'm not really into elves or elven lore, so having it limited to that portion of the game was fine for me. I think the designers had a elven Inky protagonist in mind when they made the game. Sorry to disappoint, but the game was initially limited to a human protagonist. They only added additional races as a result of the extra year of development time the game got, in addition to having Cullen and Solas as romance options. Your feeling is also not a common one, as many people feel that, because of the heavy emphasis on the Chantry/Andraste in the main plot and the PC being the Herald of Andraste, the game leans more heavily toward human with the other races "shoehorned in" (as some say).
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 27, 2017 23:31:06 GMT
I want non mage classes to suffer the same ostricism that mages suffered in three games. While that might be seen with NPCs, it's never shown for the PC. All classes have been treated the same, aside from some spare dialogue differences, in all three games. You have never been prevented from doing something because of your status as a mage in the three games and can do everything that rogues and warriors are able to do with regard to moving about in society. PC is protected status.
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