Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Dec 13, 2017 18:50:13 GMT
People can leave the Qun. They become Tal'Vashoth. Someone like Gatt is in the Qun of his own free will and wants to be a part of it. You may then point out how leaving the Qun turns one into Tal'Vashoth, who are then ostracized, but then that is no different than a dwarf leaving for the surface; the Qun is not unique in that regard. Well, yeah -- but people can run away from slavery too. I'm not sure what this proves. That's why I compare being in the Qun more like being in a cult than slavery.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Dec 13, 2017 19:23:45 GMT
I really don't that much of a difference between slavery and the Qun. Yes, your respected as a cog in the machine (if your not a mage) and have the possibility of advancement under the Qun, but ultimately all sense of self-determination is taken away from you and your and body, mind and soul is forced to serve some kind of external master who kill you if you disobey. In both cases, you aren't allowed to choose your profession, your romantic partner, or vote on political matters.
Honestly, the debate between which is worst is as pointless as comparing whether Nazism or Stalinism is worst. Both in my eyes fail to even reach a basic standard of human decency and respect and thus shouldn't even exist as ideologies or forms of government.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 19:41:28 GMT
Well, tbh, it is implied that Hawke’s has quiet periods between acts in DA2, but the game resumes with him being given a new challenge. Warden can die but still can pick up in Awakening. There is a week precedent and only within confines of the parts of the same game where you are led to believe the adventure is over, while it is not. I assume a new protagonist based on the new game = new protagonist rule of the franchise, but the same rules of the franchise makes it impossible for me to see what is suggested by gervaise21 as plausible, in other words the new game’s events not largely connected to Solas vs Inquisitor stand-off. Both subsequent games inherited the plot from the major DLC of the previous game and started on the heels of the prequel.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 13, 2017 20:21:31 GMT
Warden can die but still can pick up in Awakening. This was done as a courtesy for the player and doesn't actually mean anything. One reason a player might choose to use this method, even if their Warden died, is because you can't import your choices if you use the Orlesian Warden. In that case, you will get whomever is the default ruler of Ferelden at the beginning of DAA, and if you choose to use DAA to import into DA2, the choices from DAO won't be carried over. For playing DAA, there are only two choices: use the Orlesian Warden and have a default canon, or import your Warden (dead or alive) so you can use your own canon. You're not playing with a zombie Warden, the devs simply decided to ignore the death for that instance because of the way DAA works. Also, keep in mind that, in the Keep, the Warden that played DAA is never specified, so you can have all of your choices, including the ones you made in DAA + your dead Warden and those canon choices.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 20:29:38 GMT
Warden can die but still can pick up in Awakening. This was done as a courtesy for the player and doesn't actually mean anything. One reason a player might choose to use this method, even if their Warden died, is because you can't import your choices if you use the Orlesian Warden. In that case, you will get whomever is the default ruler of Ferelden at the beginning of DAA, and if you choose to use DAA to import into DA2, the choices from DAO won't be carried over. For playing DAA, there are only two choices: use the Orlesian Warden and have a default canon, or import your Warden (dead or alive) so you can use your own canon. You're not playing with a zombie Warden, the devs simply decided to ignore the death for that instance because of the way DAA works. Also, keep in mind that, in the Keep, the Warden that played DAA is never specified, so you can have all of your choices, including the ones you made in DAA + your dead Warden and those canon choices. Well, yes, but character’s death is a stronger indication they are done adventuring than the statement: “my adventuring day’s are over”. In both cases the Warden may not be dead in some games, and the Inquisitor might not mean it or might not even say it in some games. So, if, say DA4 came out and Inquisitor is playable I am not going to be bothered by his statement in the Trespasser. I don’t think he will be, but I won’t go: that’s impossible!
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 15, 2017 8:35:11 GMT
Doesn't the Inquisitor outright say "my adventuring days are over" at the end of Trespasser? I'm pretty sure this is only said if you opt for keeping a reduced Inquisition, presumably to explain why you aren't visibly running it any more. I opted for the aggressive disband option with my canon Inquisitor and my parting shot was "now if you excuse me, I'm off to save the world again", which is anything but an indication that I consider my adventuring days over. The epilogue screens vary as well. A peaceful retirement seems implied with some of them but not others. If you join the Jennies then it makes clear the story that you are no longer active is just a deception and both you and Sera continue to make life difficult for people you don't approve of. (You are even shown with a replacement for your missing arm). A Dorian romance can be found sneaking into Minrathous to aid his Amatus, which would suggest that if any action takes place there it may be possible the Inquisitor will be seen even if not involved. At the very least Dorian ought to mention that he is active there from time to time. What is more strange about the epilogue screens is that they do seem to imply that the Inquisitor is just getting on with life as normal as though Solas wasn't the only thing worth bothering about. Only a Solas romance mentions looking for a way to "change his heart", although I'd rather just "change his mind" about destroying my world. Personally, after being told what Solas is planning, I would find it very difficult to concentrate on doing anything else but that is only when I am in character as the Inquisitor. Which is why I suggest that a new PC might initially know nothing about the greater danger and may spend some time dealing with local issues before they are drawn into the Solas plot. Then, whilst as a player I might be frustrated having to wait for a resolution, for my PC it will be the same as was the case in Trespasser, they will be finding out over a period of time what I already know.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 15, 2017 11:25:32 GMT
What is more strange about the epilogue screens is that they do seem to imply that the Inquisitor is just getting on with life as normal... While that's true of some of the epilogue slides, every Inquisitor gets the final cutscene with the map stabbing into Tevinter. To me, it seems obvious that the devs consider the Inquisitor to be involved in some manner, even if they're not going to be the PC in the next game.
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Post by theascendent on Dec 15, 2017 12:14:08 GMT
Considering that Tevinter is at war with the Qunari and estranged from the rest of Thedas, no one wants to "officially" support them, but no one wants the Qunari to win. The Inquisition in whatever form it is in, whether disbanded or now a peace keeping force, will support them in their efforts against the Qunari and Solas. They have knowledge about Solas and the Qunari and a former member is now a Magister. They usefulness of the support will vary, depending on who is Divine, the state of the organisation at the end of Trespasser and the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas. I've no doubt that he has spies and agents on both sides of the conflict prolonging it as long as he needs to carry out his plan.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 23, 2017 20:50:00 GMT
Considering that Tevinter is at war with the Qunari and estranged from the rest of Thedas, no one wants to "officially" support them, but no one wants the Qunari to win. The Inquisition in whatever form it is in, whether disbanded or now a peace keeping force, will support them in their efforts against the Qunari and Solas. They have knowledge about Solas and the Qunari and a former member is now a Magister. They usefulness of the support will vary, depending on who is Divine, the state of the organisation at the end of Trespasser and the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas. I've no doubt that he has spies and agents on both sides of the conflict prolonging it as long as he needs to carry out his plan.He's pulling a Briala, eh? I wonder if Tevinter would even side against Solas, as a whole. Obviously Dorian and co. would, but for Tevinter people that don't know the extent of his plan (ANCIENT ELFS!!1 DESTRUCTIATION!), "bringing back the magic" probably sounds like an awesome way to beat the Qunari.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Dec 23, 2017 21:02:36 GMT
It focuses just as much on humans. Herald of Andraste, mages and Templars. You get to choose the ruler of the most powerful human nation and the leader of the main human religion. Beside that, the stuff about elves seems relatively unimportant.
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Post by duskwanderer on Dec 24, 2017 4:03:25 GMT
I thought the focus on ancient elves was more annoying than anything else.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2017 15:42:06 GMT
I wonder if Tevinter would even side against Solas, as a whole. Obviously Dorian and co. would, but for Tevinter people that don't know the extent of his plan (ANCIENT ELFS!!1 DESTRUCTIATION!), "bringing back the magic" probably sounds like an awesome way to beat the Qunari First you would need to convince them that what Solas says is true. Tevinter have cultivated the myth of their magical supremacy for so long I doubt the majority would want to admit that someone was actually superior to them in the past. So far as they are concerned they defeated the might of Arlathan and enslaved its citizens. We now know that was just a remnant and Tevinter dominance was likely built on the salvage from the civil war between the elves and the destruction wrought by Solas raising the Veil but the very fact that the ancestors of modern day Tevinter erased all cultural references to the elven civilisation that went before means they wanted to ensure no one would doubt their supremacy over everyone. Plus everyone seems to have totally forgotten that there was once a veil-less world and yet folklore of the Avvar at least would suggest they were around to witness the event. It would seem it was only after the raising of the Veil that the humans became magically gifted. What if destroying it actually stripped them of their magical ability? Of course that is not to say that there may be information in the archives of the Circle or the Black Chantry that indicate the truth but only a few select individuals would be privy to that information and they likely would want to prevent it being widely known. I doubt they would want to assist Solas in restoring the elves because they would realise that could have very bad consequences for themselves even without the anticipated "fiery chaos". It is bad enough having your entire slave workforce infiltrated and encouraged to rebel by the Qunari. Imagine if the elven slaves can suddenly outstrip you in magical deeds? Not a good idea at all.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 24, 2017 17:33:36 GMT
I wonder if Tevinter would even side against Solas, as a whole. Obviously Dorian and co. would, but for Tevinter people that don't know the extent of his plan (ANCIENT ELFS!!1 DESTRUCTIATION!), "bringing back the magic" probably sounds like an awesome way to beat the Qunari. First you would need to convince them that what Solas says is true. Tevinter have cultivated the myth of their magical supremacy for so long I doubt the majority would want to admit that someone was actually superior to them in the past. So far as they are concerned they defeated the might of Arlathan and enslaved its citizens. I got the feeling that Gomez was referring to the downtrodden slaves, primarily the elves, that might seize on any thread of hope. Solas could be counting on that to foment a rebellion. "Except this time," the slaves might think, "we'll have Solas and his power!" They might very well think that this will be different from the rebellions of old that were squashed. Heck, even the humans might go along as well; anything to escape their condition. That is why it's so dangerous. Speaking of Solas and fomenting a rebellion -- I don't recall from Trespasser -- do any of his agents call him anything? Do they know he's The Dread Wolf now? The city elves are pretty light on knowledge of the Pantheon, so it's difficult to know how they might react to a god living among them. I can see a few possibilities: they react with disbelief and don't trust the messengers he sends around, they react more positively to a mortal man with power (like Andraste herself) and what he might achieve, or they think that a god is the only one able to break the system. Even in Tevinter, the servant class will be Andrastian, just as Fenris is, and just as (after generations of forced conversation) the black slaves of America were Christian. It might be difficult to get them (elf or human) to accept The Dread Wolf. There are so many things to consider. I'm eager to see how it all plays out, and also anxious that all of this high-minded discussion we have on these forums will ultimately lead to disappointment with the final portrayal.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 25, 2017 3:27:29 GMT
Sorry Nightscrawl you give me too much credit. I wasn't referring to the elves so much as the people in power. For what it's worth I don't think any of Tevinter's elite would be eager to admit that Solas is a real, formidable threat, and they definitely wouldn't want to feel like they owe elves - elves! - if it comes down to siding with Solas versus the Qunari. But just because they'd hate it doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it. I just think it'd be neat if they were convinced, and in the end chose More Magic (Even If There's Uppity Elves) versus Savage Bestial Qunari Come To Stitch My Mouth Shut. I don't think they would grasp the full consequences. I see it as a desperate bid to save Tevinter, like Alexius allying with Corypheus for his son. gervaise21 where did you get "it was only after the raising of the Veil that the humans became magically gifted"? That never crossed my mind before. Forgive me, I'm a bit slow. As for what Solas's followers call him... I don't know? It's possible that if he is telling them he's the Dread Wolf, they just assume it's an adopted moniker. Like a really powerful mage is just trying to make himself seem even more powerful and threatening.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 25, 2017 12:10:34 GMT
where did you get "it was only after the raising of the Veil that the humans became magically gifted"? That never crossed my mind before. Forgive me, I'm a bit slow. I'll grant you that it's a bit of a stretch when it comes to assumptions. I'm really going on the fact that humans were definitely around before the Veil was created but all references to them gaining magical knowledge is found after the recorded date of the "quickening". It may well be that they did have magic pre-Veil but I wonder if eventually we will find out that it was inter-breeding between elf rebels and humans that introduced "magic" into the human race, bearing in mind that the offspring of such matings always look human. Plus it might account for why there was an initial prohibition by the elven priesthood against inter-mingling with humans because those who did rebelled against their rule and the children had magic, a double threat. Whilst being enslaved for several hundred years might explain some of the prejudice against humans, elven folklore definitely suggests there was a perceived downside to interaction before the fall of the city in Arlathan Forest that could account for why the elves withdrew totally from contact with the outside world. There is some suggestion of human diseases causing the elves to die but there is also the lore about it causing the elves to behave differently as well. It was definitely odd that the very time that elves felt their loss of immortality and presumably a loss of magical ability as well, humans are recorded as having more magical ability - it was at this time that the first human Dreamers appeared - which is why I made that connection between the two events. I don't suppose it is really a thing but you have to admit it would have been ironic if that is what happened.
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