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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 15:53:40 GMT
He is a Qunari. He is called that at creation. His character sheet states "The Qunari that do not live under Qun..." The game apparently even lets him say "I Was always called a Qunari" at some point in a way of apology to Bull.
And Bull apparently does not know himself a difference between a Tal-Vashoth and a Vashoth despite his stance as the portal of all knowledge of One True Qunari Lore.
And none of it changes that Bull starts with a confrontational and derisive: "You are no Qunari!" vs a more diplomatic: "A Vashoth, aren't you? How's life treating you in the South, friend?" so unlike the Dwarf the Qunari player is being rebuked, and unlike the Elven player, he cannot get even a half-hearted apology or acknowledgment of kinship.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Dec 12, 2017 16:00:42 GMT
You wouldn't necessaryily need to be bound to Mythal to get her spirit, it would just mean you are controlled by her. And I could see Morrigan accepting Mythal's spirit/power willingly, now she knows what it actually is. She's always wanted to preserve the past. I doubt it. Morrigan seems to be pretty happy about not drinking from the well once she realizes the consequences for it. She is happy because it avoids the fate she always believed Flemeth planned for her; possession and enslavement. In reality Flemeth raised Morrigan and groomed her to carry Mythal's spirit/godhood, while maintaining her free will. This is hinted at way back in DAO. I fought and "killed" Flemeth two days ago in DAO, and one of the lines was about Morrigan having misjudged Flemeth's intent. Morrigan is about two things, three if Kieran is in the picture; 1)her freedom, 2) preserving knowledge, 3) protecting her loved ones. Accepting Mythal's spirit would help her with all three.
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Post by Serza on Dec 12, 2017 16:03:46 GMT
As playing an Elf I feel all the more confident in the knowledge that I must kill Solas, no matter his excuses or his claims, he is just as bad as the Evanuris and would destroy everything in a vain attempt to fuel his ego . His murder of Mythal completely underpins any moral high ground he might have had, considering he imprisoned the other Gods for the very same crime. While I will feel conflicted, if the world is to survive Solas must die. I think his willingness to kill millions of people for the CHANCE to bring back his elven utopia costs him the moral high ground, tbh You heard it here first, folks, but it won't be the DA4 protag who nails Solas, it will be a random NPC named Ben. (Also, ELVEN GLOOOOORY)
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 12, 2017 16:17:12 GMT
I doubt it. Morrigan seems to be pretty happy about not drinking from the well once she realizes the consequences for it. She is happy because it avoids the fate she always believed Flemeth planned for her; possession and enslavement. In reality Flemeth raised Morrigan and groomed her to carry Mythal's spirit/godhood, while maintaining her free will. This is hinted at way back in DAO. I fought and "killed" Flemeth two days ago in DAO, and one of the lines was about Morrigan having misjudged Flemeth's intent. Morrigan is about two things, three if Kieran is in the picture; 1)her freedom, 2) preserving knowledge, 3) protecting her loved ones. Accepting Mythal's spirit would help her with all three. But she knows nothing of what you're saying. So in a world were Morrigan doesn't drink from the well, she is none the wiser of Flemeth/Mythal true intentions and just goes on with her life. One could say that in such scenario, Flemeth dies with her wish unfulfilled.
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Post by theascendent on Dec 12, 2017 16:22:05 GMT
But doesn't drinking from the Well bind the individual to Mythal. Kind of hard to both be the entity and the person bound to said entity at the same time. Of course that loophole could've been the point. Yet Flemeth seemed a bit disappointed when she dominated Morrigan. "Always grasping beyond your reach, despite of all that I taught you." Is what she says I believe. Still hard to know for certain considering who she is.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Dec 12, 2017 16:36:42 GMT
She is happy because it avoids the fate she always believed Flemeth planned for her; possession and enslavement. In reality Flemeth raised Morrigan and groomed her to carry Mythal's spirit/godhood, while maintaining her free will. This is hinted at way back in DAO. I fought and "killed" Flemeth two days ago in DAO, and one of the lines was about Morrigan having misjudged Flemeth's intent. Morrigan is about two things, three if Kieran is in the picture; 1)her freedom, 2) preserving knowledge, 3) protecting her loved ones. Accepting Mythal's spirit would help her with all three. But she knows nothing of what you're saying. So in a world were Morrigan doesn't drink from the well, she is none the wiser of Flemeth/Mythal true intentions and just goes on with her life. One could say that in such scenario, Flemeth dies with her wish unfulfilled. I am making a bit of a leap since we don't get a solid answer within the game but I assume Flemeth comes clean with Morrigan in a conversation via the mirror before the player is shown Solas encountering Flemeth and "killing" her. No matter who drinks from the well Flemeth passes something through the mirror, and unfortunately we have to rely on dev notes as to what Flemeth was doing(at least until DA4).
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 12, 2017 16:41:28 GMT
But she knows nothing of what you're saying. So in a world were Morrigan doesn't drink from the well, she is none the wiser of Flemeth/Mythal true intentions and just goes on with her life. One could say that in such scenario, Flemeth dies with her wish unfulfilled. I am making a bit of a leap since we don't get a solid answer within the game but I assume Flemeth comes clean with Morrigan in a conversation via the mirror before the player is shown Solas encountering Flemeth and "killing" her. No matter who drinks from the well Flemeth passes something through the mirror, and unfortunately we have to rely on dev notes as to what Flemeth was doing(at least until DA4). It doesn't necessarily have to be Flemeth who tells her. Afterall, didn't Mythal's spirit originally come to Flemeth and convince her to accept her? Mthal could just be sent to Morrigan, and then convince her to take her. Morrigan has shown to care about preserving ancient knowledge, she was willing to get pregnant and do a dark ritual to preserve the Old God Spirit, I could definitely see her willingly taking Mythal, specially as Flemeth will not be involved as she appears to be dead.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 16:54:59 GMT
So, for DA4, is the Elf who romanced Solas and Drunk from the Well the best Inquisitor because so story-involved, or the worst, because it will jarring and odd when she is going be switched to the new PC?
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Dec 12, 2017 17:29:43 GMT
So, for DA4, is the Elf who romanced Solas and Drunk from the Well the best Inquisitor because so story-involved, or the worst, because it will jarring and odd when she is going be switched to the new PC? I am hoping she shows up similar to Hawke, and the vow she makes at the end of Trespasser determines how the encounter plays out. While I look forward to a new protagonist, the inquisitor has to be involved in confronting Solas or I will be very disappointed. My canon inquisitor is heartbroken and wants to tear Solas apart, "Hell has no fury like a woman scorned." After Solas took my Lavenllan's hand, and recovering from the heartbreak, I pictured her catching up with him and strangling him one handed with a magic ethereal/ghost hand, and looking him in the eyes as he fades saying, "If only you had loved me enough." A bit dark I know but I was so beyond hurt I was almost numb. Who knew a video game could pull that off , and I knew it was coming since I found all the clues that he was Fen'Harel . Part of me hates romancing Solas, but it makes for such a good, and tragic story.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 12, 2017 17:54:10 GMT
I'm personally hoping the inquisitor's story is indeed over; it'll kill me having to face Solas as a friend since I couldn't bring myself to play a female elf.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 12, 2017 17:55:45 GMT
He is a Qunari. He is called that at creation. His character sheet states "The Qunari that do not live under Qun..." The game apparently even lets him say "I Was always called a Qunari" at some point in a way of apology to Bull. And Bull apparently does not know himself a difference between a Tal-Vashoth and a Vashoth despite his stance as the portal of all knowledge of One True Qunari Lore. And none of it changes that Bull starts with a confrontational and derisive: "You are no Qunari!" vs a more diplomatic: "A Vashoth, aren't you? How's life treating you in the South, friend?" so unlike the Dwarf the Qunari player is being rebuked, and unlike the Elven player, he cannot get even a half-hearted apology or acknowledgment of kinship. Well, that's part of the confusion between Qunari= "person who lives under the Qun and qunari="large person who might or might not have horns" And several things IB says don't really line up with what we've been told about the Qun, so I don't take everything he says as gospel Also, IB has a particular revulsion for Tal-Vashoth. Though I wish they'd finally officially define the difference between Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth. All we have right now are inferences. The Qunquisitor is sort of the ultimate outsider: not a part of the Qun, not a part of Thedas' society.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 12, 2017 17:56:38 GMT
I'm personally hoping the inquisitor's story is indeed over; it'll kill me having to face Solas as a friend since I couldn't bring myself to play a female elf. I hope the Inquisitor's story is over because I prefer Dragon Age's "one story, one hero" over Mass Effect's "run Shepard into the ground"
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 12, 2017 18:00:06 GMT
I'm personally hoping the inquisitor's story is indeed over; it'll kill me having to face Solas as a friend since I couldn't bring myself to play a female elf. I kinda hope it's over, cus I want to see a different side of Solas from a perspective of a person who has never known them or is close to them. Having the Inquisitor again would prevent that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 12, 2017 18:00:10 GMT
I hope we return as the Inquisitor in DA4. There is way more potential with them than just having another new person deal with it. It would reduce it to just another story where you have to stop a madman from destroying the world. Bow a dual protagonist system I wouldn't mind with the Inquisitor doing the Solas part and the new PC doing the Qun-Tevinter War part. And I absolutely do not want the Inquisitor returning as just a NPC. Bioware has ruined every single one of the protagonists they did that with.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 12, 2017 18:58:17 GMT
I'm personally hoping the inquisitor's story is indeed over; it'll kill me having to face Solas as a friend since I couldn't bring myself to play a female elf. I kinda hope it's over, cus I want to see a different side of Solas from a perspective of a person who has never known them or is close to them. Having the Inquisitor again would prevent that. That's a good point. But it'll be hard as a player to not put my own emotions onto my character :-s
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 12, 2017 19:19:56 GMT
Isn't everybody under the Qun forced to be some kind of slave? Yes and no. There are slaves such as the sar-qamek victims and those who cannot leave the Qun because of what might happen to them if they try. There are, however, also those who voluntarily go to the Qun, live with it and are fine with whichever role they are assigned. So the difference between being a slave and being a not-slave -- can't say "free person" in this context -- is that the not-slave is happy with what he's been ordered to do? I guess that's true.
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Post by shechinah on Dec 12, 2017 19:51:12 GMT
So the difference between being a slave and being a not-slave -- can't say "free person" in this context -- is that the not-slave is happy with what he's been ordered to do? I guess that's true. Not quite. The Qun are open about what it demands and so the people who voluntarily join the Qun know what they're in for. To some, especially vulnerable minorities like city elves, life in the Qun is better than life outside and so the loss of freedom when it comes to many things are acceptable to them. To them, they are trading certain things for certain other things both positive and negative. Let's take the aforementioned city elves. Here is what the average alienage offers them: - They have to live in squalor because they cannot live outside of the alienage least they be attacked. - They're stuck with worse jobs with little chance of moving up in the ranks. - They have few rights and are frequently preyed upon with little repercussion dealt their perpetrators. Here is what the Qun offers them: - Decent living and equality. I think free healthcare is also something the Qun practices. - Jobs based on their merit and skill, not race or birth, with the possibility for advancement within role. - Same rights as afforded all citizens of the Qun and any crime against them sees the perpetrated punished, not them. This is why the converts the Qun usually attracts are the lower rungs on society's ladder and not the higher ones because commoners already lack freedom, decent living and civil rights. This only increases the further down the ladder you go. The nobility scoffs at those below them and don't care but the Qun opens its arms to even beggars that have nothing and tells them that they can have a place where they will be treated equally and their lot in life won't be decided by birth but by skill. To some people, especially elves, life in the Qun is better than life elsewhere. To put it simply, life outside of the Qun is to many more like slavery than life inside the Qun is.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 12, 2017 20:57:57 GMT
So the difference between being a slave and being a not-slave -- can't say "free person" in this context -- is that the not-slave is happy with what he's been ordered to do? I guess that's true. People can leave the Qun. They become Tal'Vashoth. Someone like Gatt is in the Qun of his own free will and wants to be a part of it. You may then point out how leaving the Qun turns one into Tal'Vashoth, who are then ostracized, but then that is no different than a dwarf leaving for the surface; the Qun is not unique in that regard.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 12, 2017 21:14:58 GMT
So the difference between being a slave and being a not-slave -- can't say "free person" in this context -- is that the not-slave is happy with what he's been ordered to do? I guess that's true. People can leave the Qun. They become Tal'Vashoth. Someone like Gatt is in the Qun of his own free will and wants to be a part of it. You may then point out how leaving the Qun turns one into Tal'Vashoth, who are then ostracized, but then that is no different than a dwarf leaving for the surface; the Qun is not unique in that regard. Iron Bull talks about running after Tal'Vashoth as a Ben-Hassrath, so it's not really that easy to leave. If it was that easy to leave, they wouldn't have a poison to be used to basically lobotimise them and make them a complaint labourer with limited abilities.
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Post by Frost on Dec 13, 2017 2:29:05 GMT
So, for DA4, is the Elf who romanced Solas and Drunk from the Well the best Inquisitor because so story-involved, or the worst, because it will jarring and odd when she is going be switched to the new PC? Worst for DA4 if they don't bring back the Inquisitor (or only bring her back as a small cameo). It will be jarring to have someone else finish the story.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 13, 2017 17:38:23 GMT
So, for DA4, is the Elf who romanced Solas and Drunk from the Well the best Inquisitor because so story-involved, or the worst, because it will jarring and odd when she is going be switched to the new PC? Worst for DA4 if they don't bring back the Inquisitor (or only bring her back as a small cameo). It will be jarring to have someone else finish the story. This was the basic problem with the conclusion of Trespasser. Everyone I have discussed it with IRL who has played Trespasser had the reaction "so the Inquisitor will be coming back in the next game". Many of them knew nothing about the alleged one hero per game rule and thought that logically the Inquisitor's story as PC was not finished, even if it was as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas. However, I think it likely that since the next game is taking place up north, initially events will have no connection to the previous plot, except possibly the fact that their actions caused the Qun to attack Tevinter directly. It may be that ultimately the new PC will be put in touch with the old PC but the game will work towards that rather than have Solas the focus from the beginning. Which will be frustrating for the player who wants to know what happens but fine if you are looking forward to playing a new PC. I don't think romancing Solas or drinking from the Well will make that person better story-wise but will simply give you some different content, just as was the case with Kieran. I actually preferred the version of DAI that didn't have OGB Kieran as I thought the meeting at the Shrine fitted better than Kieran being able to turn the eluvian so it had direct access to the Fade, which raised a whole lot of questions in my mind that were never answered and likely never will be.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 13, 2017 18:12:18 GMT
So, for DA4, is the Elf who romanced Solas and Drunk from the Well the best Inquisitor because so story-involved, or the worst, because it will jarring and odd when she is going be switched to the new PC? Worst for DA4 if they don't bring back the Inquisitor (or only bring her back as a small cameo). It will be jarring to have someone else finish the story. This was the basic problem with the conclusion of Trespasser. Everyone I have discussed it with IRL who has played Trespasser had the reaction "so the Inquisitor will be coming back in the next game". Many of them knew nothing about the alleged one hero per game rule and thought that logically the Inquisitor's story as PC was not finished, even if it was as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas. However, I think it likely that since the next game is taking place up north, initially events will have no connection to the previous plot, except possibly the fact that their actions caused the Qun to attack Tevinter directly. It may be that ultimately the new PC will be put in touch with the old PC but the game will work towards that rather than have Solas the focus from the beginning. Which will be frustrating for the player who wants to know what happens but fine if you are looking forward to playing a new PC. I don't think romancing Solas or drinking from the Well will make that person better story-wise but will simply give you some different content, just as was the case with Kieran. I actually preferred the version of DAI that didn't have OGB Kieran as I thought the meeting at the Shrine fitted better than Kieran being able to turn the eluvian so it had direct access to the Fade, which raised a whole lot of questions in my mind that were never answered and likely never will be. Doesn't the Inquisitor outright say "my adventuring days are over" at the end of Trespasser?
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Post by shechinah on Dec 13, 2017 18:20:01 GMT
Doesn't the Inquisitor outright say "my adventuring days are over" at the end of Trespasser? No, it's something some Inquisitors say but not all. I cannot remember what affects this but I suspect it may be what you choose to say and how you choose to say it during the final hearing concerning the Inquisition. My canon Inquisitor never said any such thing during her speech or in the last scene.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 13, 2017 18:24:03 GMT
He sometimes does. Although it's not crazy to think that he was outright lying to the Council.
But the Inquisitor also tells the inner circle, in the final scene, that they need to find people Solas doesn't know because Solas is too familiar with Inquisition people and methods. I thought that made Bio's intent pretty clear.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 13, 2017 18:25:42 GMT
So the difference between being a slave and being a not-slave -- can't say "free person" in this context -- is that the not-slave is happy with what he's been ordered to do? I guess that's true. People can leave the Qun. They become Tal'Vashoth. Someone like Gatt is in the Qun of his own free will and wants to be a part of it. You may then point out how leaving the Qun turns one into Tal'Vashoth, who are then ostracized, but then that is no different than a dwarf leaving for the surface; the Qun is not unique in that regard. Well, yeah -- but people can run away from slavery too. I'm not sure what this proves.
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