Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 26, 2018 23:25:47 GMT
Before... 2020...? Though I still have zero desire to cooperate with other plays lmao. That's still too much intrusion, imo. Yep. I don't want to avenge xXGr3yWardenXx. I get it, but I didn’t find it intrusive at all because it was quite easy to ignore as I said.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 27, 2018 0:03:01 GMT
Before... 2020...? Though I still have zero desire to cooperate with other plays lmao. That's still too much intrusion, imo. Yep. I don't want to avenge xXGr3yWardenXx. ..... xXGr3yWardenXx is dead???? I...I never got a chance to say goodbye!
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Post by Frost on Jan 27, 2018 1:41:15 GMT
Gamer anger over microtransactions will have consequences for Activision, Electronic Arts: Analyst"This isn't a monopoly business ... Angering your customer with bad MTX [microtransactions] does matter." "The 'industry plans to further expand live services revenue appear to have run into some roadblocks with gamers sounding off against some recent titles, notably EA's "Star Wars Battlefront II' and Activision's 'Destiny 2' (though the issues with the latter go beyond just MTX),' he wrote. 'We think writing off angry gamers as largely irrelevant is a mistake.'" Hopefully, if there is a big enough financial impact to other games, then EA might change its mind about adding live service elements to DA4.
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Post by river82 on Jan 27, 2018 1:50:48 GMT
Gamer anger over microtransactions will have consequences for Activision, Electronic Arts: Analyst"This isn't a monopoly business ... Angering your customer with bad MTX [microtransactions] does matter." "The 'industry plans to further expand live services revenue appear to have run into some roadblocks with gamers sounding off against some recent titles, notably EA's "Star Wars Battlefront II' and Activision's 'Destiny 2' (though the issues with the latter go beyond just MTX),' he wrote. 'We think writing off angry gamers as largely irrelevant is a mistake.'" Hopefully, if there is a big enough financial impact to other games, then EA might change its mind about adding live service elements to DA4. You're equating "live service elements" with "offensive microtransaction policies". There's been live service elements in all Dragon Age games, it's a very vague term. So if you want to have no live service elements, you'd actually have to scrub out existing design philosophies from the series.
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thedarkprince
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Post by thedarkprince on Jan 27, 2018 2:04:08 GMT
So they expect us to just "trust" them? Alr3ady fell for that with Andromeda. Not happening again. I'll believe it when I see It, nothing they say carries any weight with me anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 2:45:01 GMT
Wouldn't trust a thing Cassy Hudson says, not after how he handled the backlash about the ending to a certain games series that shall not be named.
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Post by river82 on Jan 27, 2018 3:17:00 GMT
Wouldn't trust a thing Cassy Hudson says, not after how he handled the backlash about the ending to a certain games series that shall not be named. How he handled the backlash relates to his honesty, does it? Interesting. Here I thought all this time people hated him because he couldn't give the fans what they wanted. Mass Effect 3 was always going to end in an unsatisfactory manner because they only had a limited amount of time to tell the story and end a humungous intergalactic conflict against a race of Gods and they spent the entirety of Mass Effect 2 dicking around. So Mass Effect 3 had to deal with the arrival, the initial devastating onslaught, the recovery, the resistance, and the finale all in one game. They were always screwed and it's because Mass Effect 2 didn't shoulder any of the workload. The lack of effective choice and consequence relates directly to this (although your choices still mattered). Casey Hudson was just the scapegoat in what was a monumental storytelling cock up
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Post by river82 on Jan 27, 2018 3:25:17 GMT
Mac Walters, for example, was just as involved in ME3's ending as Casey was, believes only a vocal minority was upset about it, but comparatively gets a free ride. He was also the one that was parachuted into Andromeda to take charge of that game, didn't really do anything at all, and still doesn't get as much shit as Casey who, don't forget, was the project director for KOTOR; an unbelievable game.
The hate for Casey Hudson has reached ridiculous levels
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jan 27, 2018 3:29:03 GMT
Gamer anger over microtransactions will have consequences for Activision, Electronic Arts: Analyst"This isn't a monopoly business ... Angering your customer with bad MTX [microtransactions] does matter." "The 'industry plans to further expand live services revenue appear to have run into some roadblocks with gamers sounding off against some recent titles, notably EA's "Star Wars Battlefront II' and Activision's 'Destiny 2' (though the issues with the latter go beyond just MTX),' he wrote. 'We think writing off angry gamers as largely irrelevant is a mistake.'" Hopefully, if there is a big enough financial impact to other games, then EA might change its mind about adding live service elements to DA4. You're equating "live service elements" with "offensive microtransaction policies". There's been live service elements in all Dragon Age games, it's a very vague term. So if you want to have no live service elements, you'd actually have to scrub out existing design philosophies from the series. This reasoning, while mainly sensible, reminds me of the hooplah around adding multiplayer to ME3. I don't mean to knock ME3MP either. It was popular, fine.. But before it was released, people were saying "What was the big deal? Even games like Bauldur's Gate had multiplayer in it!" While true, it was an exaggeration. The BG version, iirc, of multiplayer was simply the ability to hook up several PCs on a lan and play together. it was in no way a cash making scheme for Bioware. It was as similar to ME3 multiplayer as a bicycle is to a motorbike. So yes, same basic idea but very different implementation, with very different intentions. "Live service elements" in previous games presumably means DLC or expansions in DAO like DAA or Witch Hunt. Who's to say what the modern DA4 live service will be. Bicycles to motorbikes? We don't know. Personally I'll wait for more details before making up my mind, but I'm not going to assume all is well either.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 27, 2018 4:14:25 GMT
You're equating "live service elements" with "offensive microtransaction policies". There's been live service elements in all Dragon Age games, it's a very vague term. So if you want to have no live service elements, you'd actually have to scrub out existing design philosophies from the series. This reasoning, while mainly sensible, reminds me of the hooplah around adding multiplayer to ME3. I don't mean to knock ME3MP either. It was popular, fine.. But before it was released, people were saying "What was the big deal? Even games like Bauldur's Gate had multiplayer in it!" While true, it was an exaggeration. The BG version, iirc, of multiplayer was simply the ability to hook up several PCs on a lan and play together. it was in no way a cash making scheme for Bioware. It was as similar to ME3 multiplayer as a bicycle is to a motorbike. So yes, same basic idea but very different implementation, with very different intentions. "Live service elements" in previous games presumably means DLC or expansions in DAO like DAA or Witch Hunt. Who's to say what the modern DA4 live service will be. Bicycles to motorbikes? We don't know. Personally I'll wait for more details before making up my mind, but I'm not going to assume all is well either. Well if we go that way, it's prudent to point out that many elements that have little to no connection to live services are as similar as bicycle is to a motorbike - but that's just part of more or less natural evolution of the medium or Bioware as a studio. Also - Baldur's Gate's MP was hardly the only form of multiplayer Bioware games had and, IRC, it was controversial at some point not that long ago that Bioware games *didn't* have multiplayer. Ah, how times have changed Anyway - I wouldn't be surprised if new DA had some form of more advanced live services, but part of that at least will also be a product of evolution of both games as a medium, the product as well as Bioware's own penchant to experiment. After all, it's not like shy away from it, especially in DA franchise.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 27, 2018 4:48:42 GMT
Gamer anger over microtransactions will have consequences for Activision, Electronic Arts: Analyst"This isn't a monopoly business ... Angering your customer with bad MTX [microtransactions] does matter." "The 'industry plans to further expand live services revenue appear to have run into some roadblocks with gamers sounding off against some recent titles, notably EA's "Star Wars Battlefront II' and Activision's 'Destiny 2' (though the issues with the latter go beyond just MTX),' he wrote. 'We think writing off angry gamers as largely irrelevant is a mistake.'" Hopefully, if there is a big enough financial impact to other games, then EA might change its mind about adding live service elements to DA4. There probably hasn't been, the biggest loss EA probably has seen is the loss of MTX content and we don't know how happy they were internally about it either. People seem to always forget there was another major company involved that looks at the bottom line to milk all the money involved in this as well with Disney. If you look at the reports from the stock prices EA pretty much rebounded from the loss after it was reported they were removing microtransactions from Battlefront and at least one analyst is saying that Battlefront 2 did better then the revised projections claimed it would. Live services is too vague for them not to put it in, for in its most basic terms it means updating the game after release. The Mass Effect 3 weekend events were a live service. My understanding is that even the Apex missions in Andromeda could be a live service as well since it interacts with a cellphone app. I could even see Dragon Age Keep and Mass Effect Archives being in that list. So being upset that they are including live service content just seems to be focusing on the whole instead of what exactly you might not want. (Edit:) The big thing is looking for a way to determine what a live service is that its new content to the game without patching it. In their article AskAGameDev even gave the option of having War Table Missions being part of the live service by having the change based on what people have completed and keeping them dynamic and so you aren't completing the same missions over and over again and allowing them to add new ones. Edit: Cleaned up a bad train of thought.
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Post by duckley on Jan 27, 2018 17:11:18 GMT
Okay, having calmed down a little bit, here are some thoughts on some means of “live services” I could tolerate Post release content, like say adding additional bosses or “monster hunts” in addition to story DLC. Co-op dungeons released periodically after the base game, or maybe co-op versions of dungeons in the campaign. What I really don’t want to see is a cash shop plopped into the single player or to see it turned into a fantasy version of SWTOR. I dont play on line games but I do get a kick out of Dragon's Dogma. I love to earn riftstones and gifts from players that use my pawn (level 85 Sorcerer Daniel) so I can hire bad ass pawns. I enjoy the pawn sharing. So maybe they will do something like that? The bottom line is that I love DA - the games, the lore, the characters and cant wait to play whatever version they produce. I don't know what loot boxes are but I have no problem buying armor and weapon sets/upgrades, so long as they are cheap!
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Post by mechalynx on Jan 27, 2018 17:53:05 GMT
Mac Walters, for example, was just as involved in ME3's ending as Casey was, believes only a vocal minority was upset about it, but comparatively gets a free ride. He was also the one that was parachuted into Andromeda to take charge of that game, didn't really do anything at all, and still doesn't get as much shit as Casey who, don't forget, was the project director for KOTOR; an unbelievable game. The hate for Casey Hudson has reached ridiculous levels IIrc, Mac Walters received just as much flak as Hudson at the beginning of the ME3 disaster. Unlike Hudson however, the man did not mouth off on "16 different endings" and "No ABC endings here, nosirree." Hudson't hubris is what turned me off BioWare for a good while and I was relieved when he took off for Microsoft. And now he's back and playing spin doctor again. Man, it's been almost 6 years. Will I ever be free of this butthurt?
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Post by river82 on Jan 27, 2018 19:57:00 GMT
Unlike Hudson however, the man did not mouth off on "16 different endings" and "No ABC endings here, nosirree." Hudson never mentioned "16 different endings", that's a myth. Don't believe me? Try and find a link that shows him saying it EDIT: The people on Fextralife even combed the old Bioware forums and could not find any place Casey mentioned "sixteen different endings"
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jan 27, 2018 19:57:20 GMT
I don't have a crystal ball, but my bet is 'live' means greater emphasis on online features whether it includes story or not.
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 27, 2018 20:10:18 GMT
Well, that's the reason dev's don't come out and explain what's going on. I was reading a thread the other day about the Amy Hennig Polygon interview the other day were she discusses that it costs about $100 million on a new IP linear single player game and that people keep asking to make them but don't actually buy them - it was awful the number of comments that were having a go at her past work history ot calling her a "liar" or "corporate shill". No one wants to face that, specially when it can get a whole lot worse than that. Some people just believe what they want to believe and if the person they deem evil says otherwise then clearly they’re lying. Kind of like those who wanted to believe what they want to believe regarding MEA SP DLC? Looks like Bioware just cannot catch a break. Things clearly is not looking good for the studio and Anthem will be the final nail in the coffin. RIP Bioware
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 27, 2018 20:14:21 GMT
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 27, 2018 20:26:46 GMT
Unlike Hudson however, the man did not mouth off on "16 different endings" and "No ABC endings here, nosirree." Hudson never mentioned "16 different endings", that's a myth. Don't believe me? Try and find a link that shows him saying it EDIT: The people on Fextralife even combed the old Bioware forums and could not find any place Casey mentioned "sixteen" I was around the old boards for that. What happened was that IGN published a guide laying out all the different EMS/decision combos. Their original version of the page said that there were sixteen different combinations, though they've edited that page since. (The Wayback Machine might have the original.) That seems to have been the original source of the number 16. How fans attributed that number to Bio was never clear. You'd occasionally see really daft contortions to try and make that work -- "Well, Bio had to have had approval rights over an IGN article, so they didn't stop IGN from saying it!"
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Post by githcheater on Jan 27, 2018 20:30:47 GMT
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Post by phoray on Jan 27, 2018 21:14:19 GMT
I suppose I am also concerned by Casey Hudson heading the response on this. To me, he's some Mass Effect guy that left Bioware in a frump and returned randomly.
Now he's touching my Dragon Age. I don't want to hear from Hudson that it's okay, I want to hear from Weekes that it's okay.
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Post by river82 on Jan 27, 2018 21:27:07 GMT
I suppose I am also concerned by Casey Hudson heading the response on this. To me, he's some Mass Effect guy that left Bioware in a frump and returned randomly. Now he's touching my Dragon Age. I don't want to hear from Hudson that it's okay, I want to hear from Weekes that it's okay. The next Dragon Age will be in space EDIT: [Picture removed once I read the artist's page. It's linked below, though]Picture by Shalizeh on Deviantart - shalizeh.deviantart.com/art/Advisors-514687464
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 27, 2018 21:29:33 GMT
I suppose I am also concerned by Casey Hudson heading the response on this. To me, he's some Mass Effect guy that left Bioware in a frump and returned randomly. Now he's touching my Dragon Age. I don't want to hear from Hudson that it's okay, I want to hear from Weekes that it's okay. He's the head of the company, above both Mark Darrah and Patrick Weekes and has literally worked the majority of his working life at BioWare, apart from the three years he left. Basically, what he says does matter and it's actually reasurring that he was paying attention to fans worries about Dragon Age, specially when he could have just ignored the article. Weekes is a writer, he is not going to be the one that decides the live service element of Dragon Age, it's not his job?
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Post by phoray on Jan 27, 2018 21:32:49 GMT
I suppose I am also concerned by Casey Hudson heading the response on this. To me, he's some Mass Effect guy that left Bioware in a frump and returned randomly. Now he's touching my Dragon Age. I don't want to hear from Hudson that it's okay, I want to hear from Weekes that it's okay. He's the head of the company, above both Mark Darrah and Patrick Weekes and has literally worked the majority of his working life at BioWare, apart from the three years he left. Basically, what he says does matter and it's actually reasurring that he was paying attention to fans worries about Dragon Age, specially when he could have just ignored the article. Weekes is a writer, he is not going to be the one that decides the live service element of Dragon Age, it's not his job? But Weekes will know if these live elements will affect his ability to tell the story he put in place with Dragon Age Inquisition. Casey Hudson coming on this late in a branch he never worked on means he has no attachment to the story at all and is willing to butcher Weekes story if necessary.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 27, 2018 21:40:23 GMT
He's the head of the company, above both Mark Darrah and Patrick Weekes and has literally worked the majority of his working life at BioWare, apart from the three years he left. Basically, what he says does matter and it's actually reasurring that he was paying attention to fans worries about Dragon Age, specially when he could have just ignored the article. Weekes is a writer, he is not going to be the one that decides the live service element of Dragon Age, it's not his job? But Weekes will know if these live elements will affect his ability to tell the story he put in place with Dragon Age Inquisition. Casey Hudson coming on this late in a branch he never worked on means he has no attachment to the story at all and is willing to butcher Weekes story if necessary. Casey Hudson isn't some random guy from the outside coming in and just pushing his opinion on everything, he's worked with these people for years. He has enough faith in Mark Darrah to have him on both Anthem and Dragon Age - and Mark Darrah retweeted his post as well and he's actually the person who is in charge of Dragon Age. I think you're being over worried here?
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 27, 2018 21:42:02 GMT
He's the head of the company, above both Mark Darrah and Patrick Weekes and has literally worked the majority of his working life at BioWare, apart from the three years he left. Basically, what he says does matter and it's actually reasurring that he was paying attention to fans worries about Dragon Age, specially when he could have just ignored the article. Weekes is a writer, he is not going to be the one that decides the live service element of Dragon Age, it's not his job? But Weekes will know if these live elements will affect his ability to tell the story he put in place with Dragon Age Inquisition. Casey Hudson coming on this late in a branch he never worked on means he has no attachment to the story at all and is willing to butcher Weekes story if necessary. I don't recall Gaider or Weekes confirming much of anything on their own when it comes to DA, whether it's DA4 or DLC for DAI.
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