inherit
118
0
6,166
The Hype Himself
Proud Sponsor of Swingin' Seamen Charter Fishing: My Live Bait Will Catch Your Fish Every Time!
4,023
August 2016
hawkeyegod
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by The Hype Himself on Mar 22, 2018 23:28:30 GMT
It goes beyond mere 'anti-feminism.' It basically states that the 'ideal' relationship a young woman can hope for is to be an object for a man who is emotionally and mentally abusive and controlling (he physically disables her car so that she can't hang out with other people and this is portrayed as romantic,) physically intimidating (the guy is a stalker that breaks into her house without her permission and watches her sleep at night (once again, it's portrayed as 'romantic,') and that the girl is supposed to drop everything, every wish and desire in her life for the glory of her boyfriend/man. I'll be honest, I think of Mormonism as little more than a cult, and I am very critical of many aspects of the religion, and how it really comes off in the series. I've not read it, but I've read enough material on it to understand how a lot of what is portrayed is just terrible and in many ways shills Mormon lifestyles.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Mar 23, 2018 1:32:27 GMT
It goes beyond mere 'anti-feminism.' It basically states that the 'ideal' relationship a young woman can hope for is to be an object for a man who is emotionally and mentally abusive and controlling (he physically disables her car so that she can't hang out with other people and this is portrayed as romantic,) physically intimidating (the guy is a stalker that breaks into her house without her permission and watches her sleep at night (once again, it's portrayed as 'romantic,') and that the girl is supposed to drop everything, every wish and desire in her life for the glory of her boyfriend/man. I'll be honest, I think of Mormonism as little more than a cult, and I am very critical of many aspects of the religion, and how it really comes off in the series. I've not read it, but I've read enough material on it to understand how a lot of what is portrayed is just terrible and in many ways shills Mormon lifestyles. Don’t care for the series myself, but I do try to moderate my dislike. So much of the hate for Twilight stems from the premise that it’s teaching teenage girls the wrong messages. That it normalizes unhealthy relationships. But we don’t say the same of all the “boy” media that normalizes war and violence. We understand that fantasy works about fighting are just that... fantasy. I think teenage girls are just as discerning about fantasy vs. reality as teenage boys. That is, not 100%, but pretty close. Now, we might ask why so many women seek out stories with unhealthy relationships. Well, it does go back to that religious backdrop. Especially in areas where birth control and abortion are frowned upon, girls learn to associate any inkling of desire with a deep, primal fear. If they meet a dangerous person or lose control of their impulses, even for a moment, they could be stuck with a pregnancy they’re forbidden from escaping. Their body will change over the course of months, people will shame them, and they’ll be forced to care for another human for decades. Add to that, many conservative religions also forbid divorce, so if she misjudges someone who seems nice but turns out to be abusive, she’s chained to him for life. Everything related to sex is thickly laced with danger. Since the wiring is still forming, some women get stuck with that sex=fear association even into adulthood. Buuuuut it goes two ways. Because sex is so closely associated with fear, sometimes fear gets associated with sex. Now, obviously by the time someone’s a young adult, they know it’s not safe to try to trigger that fear-to-sex pathway in real life. So roleplay or fantasy becomes a safe outlet for that impulse. Fantasy lets them imagine an extreme, almost totemic version of that monstrous man that their church and parents said would destroy their life. The monster that, during their adolesence, became the embodiment of everything related to sex. And that’s why bad guys are so hot.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
21,897
smilesja
13,738
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 23, 2018 1:36:27 GMT
It would be hard to be as bad as Anakin Skywalker from episodes 1-3 anyway. Kylo Ren
|
|
Duelist
N3
Winston/Reinhardt Main
PSN: Rogue_276
Posts: 796 Likes: 958
inherit
37
0
Dec 17, 2023 22:13:27 GMT
958
Duelist
Winston/Reinhardt Main
796
August 2016
duelist
Rogue_276
|
Post by Duelist on Mar 23, 2018 1:49:13 GMT
Batman. Seriously, fuck prep time.
|
|
inherit
401
0
1
May 21, 2024 10:35:50 GMT
41,694
DragonKingReborn
20,567
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
887
590
|
Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 23, 2018 1:51:44 GMT
Batman. Seriously, fuck prep time.
|
|
inherit
TEH EVUL CREEP
1008
0
Sept 27, 2021 23:28:25 GMT
3,757
BamBam the Destroyer
I hunt, therefore I am
2,774
August 2016
jockcranley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Mar 23, 2018 2:55:30 GMT
Where the fuck do you link Mormonism and Twilight? vs
|
|
lynroy
N6
Thief
Current Location: Washington DC
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
Prime Posts: 24,721
Prime Likes: 34,638
Posts: 7,923 Likes: 20,102
inherit
Thief
80
0
May 21, 2024 14:29:54 GMT
20,102
lynroy
Current Location: Washington DC
7,923
August 2016
lynroy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The3tWits
The3tWits
24,721
34,638
|
Post by lynroy on Mar 23, 2018 4:13:11 GMT
As a Mormon, I'm also a little confused. It goes beyond mere 'anti-feminism.' It basically states that the 'ideal' relationship a young woman can hope for is to be an object for a man who is emotionally and mentally abusive and controlling (he physically disables her car so that she can't hang out with other people and this is portrayed as romantic,) physically intimidating (the guy is a stalker that breaks into her house without her permission and watches her sleep at night (once again, it's portrayed as 'romantic,') and that the girl is supposed to drop everything, every wish and desire in her life for the glory of her boyfriend/man. I'll be honest, I think of Mormonism as little more than a cult, and I am very critical of many aspects of the religion, and how it really comes off in the series. I've not read it, but I've read enough material on it to understand how a lot of what is portrayed is just terrible and in many ways shills Mormon lifestyles. *snip* Well, it does go back to that religious backdrop. Especially in areas where birth control and abortion are frowned upon, girls learn to associate any inkling of desire with a deep, primal fear. If they meet a dangerous person or lose control of their impulses, even for a moment, they could be stuck with a pregnancy they’re forbidden from escaping. Their body will change over the course of months, people will shame them, and they’ll be forced to care for another human for decades. Add to that, many conservative religions also forbid divorce, so if she misjudges someone who seems nice but turns out to be abusive, she’s chained to him for life. Everything related to sex is thickly laced with danger. Since the wiring is still forming, some women get stuck with that sex=fear association even into adulthood. Buuuuut it goes two ways. Because sex is so closely associated with fear, sometimes fear gets associated with sex. Now, obviously by the time someone’s a young adult, they know it’s not safe to try to trigger that fear-to-sex pathway in real life. So roleplay or fantasy becomes a safe outlet for that impulse. Fantasy lets them imagine an extreme, almost totemic version of that monstrous man that their church and parents said would destroy their life. The monster that, during their adolesence, became the embodiment of everything related to sex. ....It's not like that at all. (Sorry, at work. Only able to check phone in bursts. Will share my view when I have time.) Edit: Superman is my ultimate Mary Sue.
|
|
inherit
401
0
1
May 21, 2024 10:35:50 GMT
41,694
DragonKingReborn
20,567
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
887
590
|
Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 23, 2018 5:34:57 GMT
Edit: Superman is my ultimate Mary Sue. THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION!
|
|
inherit
Mr. Rump
46
0
Apr 28, 2024 20:19:57 GMT
8,986
Lavochkin
6,786
August 2016
lavochkin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Lavochkin on Mar 23, 2018 6:21:23 GMT
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 6:42:44 GMT
But, what would be your take on the Nora, a matriarchal society filled with xenophobic Luddite assholes? Certainly more sympathetic than the Patriarchal and classist Carja who built their immense wealth off the backs of slave labour and kept order through blood sacrifice. Besides it is really only the male characters of the Nora who embody the more xenophobic aspects of the tribe with such gusto, the female members of the tribe are generally seen as more sympathetic and accepting of Aloy while the males are quick to throw stones. The Nora are clearly supposed to be the more sympathetic tribe in the region having a strong sense of honor and pride and living as one with the land not taking more than they need to survive. They also live at relative peace not fighting unless provoked or in self defense and even their legal system is set up to be more forgiving and less harsh with the most heinous of crimes being punished with the most feminist punishment of all, the silent treatment! Compared with the other tribes of the world it is pretty clear that the Nora are supposed to be the most sympathetic and good tribe which follows the games overarching theme of "matriarchy good! patriarchy bad!"
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 6:42:58 GMT
Let's be honest here. If anyone is going to create world-ending technology that runs amok and kills us all, it's going to be a dude like Ted Faro. Anyhoo, don't care. Horizon Zero Dawn is damn good gaming. But, what would be your take on the Nora, a matriarchal society filled with xenophobic Luddite assholes? Aloy doesn't meet the definition of a sue anyway. To be a Sue you have to be good at things for no particular reason. She's really good at killing stuff, but then her entire childhood was essentially being trained specifically to be a warrior by a (notably not weak) father figure, a guy who took so many levels in badass that he somehow managed to survive being declared a Legion of the Dead style suicide berserker for the most feared and barbaric tribe in the game world.
Has weaknesses too, she's whiny, a bit immature and socially dull, and extremely naïve about people. The last one frequently gets her manipulated into doing the bidding of craftier characters in the story/world or getting entrapped in their schemes (which she usually gets out of by doing the thing she's actually good at i.e. putting lots of holes in things), most of all by the Machiavellian Sylens, who basically drives the entire plot from 1/3 of the game in and onward while Aloy's takes the role of a puppet he uses to murder everyone in the way of his goals.
Well she is also really good at figuring out stuff that nobody else in the world has been capable of figuring out thus far, all it takes for her to learn how to control machines is to see a corruptor and then deduce by tying a machine component to a stick she can control machines as well, she is far more tech savvy than anyone else in the universe (except maybe Sylens, however he is a lot older and took a lot longer to learn this stuff and even he learned the control machines trick from Aloy) As for Rost it is clear he is supposed to be one of the good males, the type that accepts his place under the matriarchy and accepts the superiority of female leadership, despite being an outcast from the tribe everything he does is devoted to upholding the law of the matriarchy and assisting the tribe from the outside by taking care of any threats to the tribe. As for her weaknesses I think that comes down more to interpretation, when you say "whiny" I think the writer was more going for "strong and not afraid to speak her mind", when you say immature...... well I am not exactly what you are going for here as it is pretty clear she is supposed the wisest character in the world who knows exactly what the old relics are used for and not getting taken in by the silly superstitions the other people of the world seem to hold such as the world being flat and whatnot. And when you say "socially dull" I am pretty sure the character was written by somebody who is socially awkward themselves and mistakes what they write for Aloy as wit, I mean it is pretty clear that all the good characters in this world hang off her every word and recognize that she is the single most important person in this world. As for getting entrapped in other peoples schemes isn't that part of being a video game protagonist where you go around solving everyone's problems? Even if the quest giver tries to pull one over her she usually sees through it before she can get taken advantage of, in the case of Sylens it is more of a mutually beneficial arrangement as while Sylens is clearly taking advantage of her she also knows that working with Sylens is probably the fastest way to get to what she needs as well.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 6:47:01 GMT
Didn't Twilight start out as a HP fanfic? And 50 Shades as a Twilight fanfic? Honestly, it's all just a chain of shitty self-insert wank. That they still made multi-million dollar movies out of HP as in Harry Potter or something else? Also not seeing the link between Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey apart from maybe wishfulfillment that plays into the sexual fantasies of the writers themselves? One is a about a Girl who is the object of desire for supernatural creatures like werewolves and vampires and the other is about a girl who gets abused by her billionaire boyfriend? Is Mr Grey supposed to be a Vampire or something?
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 6:48:58 GMT
I dunno looks more like the ways the legs are bent giving more profile to the ass.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,301
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Mar 23, 2018 8:01:38 GMT
It would be hard to be as bad as Anakin Skywalker from episodes 1-3 anyway. Kylo Ren Lena Dunham
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Mar 23, 2018 12:23:28 GMT
As a Mormon, I'm also a little confused. *snip* Well, it does go back to that religious backdrop. Especially in areas where birth control and abortion are frowned upon, girls learn to associate any inkling of desire with a deep, primal fear. If they meet a dangerous person or lose control of their impulses, even for a moment, they could be stuck with a pregnancy they’re forbidden from escaping. Their body will change over the course of months, people will shame them, and they’ll be forced to care for another human for decades. Add to that, many conservative religions also forbid divorce, so if she misjudges someone who seems nice but turns out to be abusive, she’s chained to him for life. Everything related to sex is thickly laced with danger. Since the wiring is still forming, some women get stuck with that sex=fear association even into adulthood. Buuuuut it goes two ways. Because sex is so closely associated with fear, sometimes fear gets associated with sex. Now, obviously by the time someone’s a young adult, they know it’s not safe to try to trigger that fear-to-sex pathway in real life. So roleplay or fantasy becomes a safe outlet for that impulse. Fantasy lets them imagine an extreme, almost totemic version of that monstrous man that their church and parents said would destroy their life. The monster that, during their adolesence, became the embodiment of everything related to sex. ....It's not like that at all. (Sorry, at work. Only able to check phone in bursts. Will share my view when I have time.) Edit: Superman is my ultimate Mary Sue. I should clarify that I don’t think Twilight is popular due to Mormonism. Maybe the other poster does, but there... aren’t really enough Mormons to go around. Plus most Mormons are pretty chill about doctrine. I think stories like it tap into some specific emotions in people who were raised Evangelical, which was how I was raised. There are a lot more of those, and quite honestly the Evangelical view of sex and relationships is appallingly unhealthy. Add in a dash of the racism that plagues some strains of Southern Baptist thought (and despite the name, you can find “Southern Baptist” congregations all over — I wasn’t anywhere near the South, and my pastor went to the Southern Baptist conference), and there are also some really ugly hangups about sex with “the other”.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Mar 23, 2018 14:54:44 GMT
But, what would be your take on the Nora, a matriarchal society filled with xenophobic Luddite assholes? Certainly more sympathetic than the Patriarchal and classist Carja who built their immense wealth off the backs of slave labour and kept order through blood sacrifice. Besides it is really only the male characters of the Nora who embody the more xenophobic aspects of the tribe with such gusto, the female members of the tribe are generally seen as more sympathetic and accepting of Aloy while the males are quick to throw stones. The Nora are clearly supposed to be the more sympathetic tribe in the region having a strong sense of honor and pride and living as one with the land not taking more than they need to survive. They also live at relative peace not fighting unless provoked or in self defense and even their legal system is set up to be more forgiving and less harsh with the most heinous of crimes being punished with the most feminist punishment of all, the silent treatment! Compared with the other tribes of the world it is pretty clear that the Nora are supposed to be the most sympathetic and good tribe which follows the games overarching theme of "matriarchy good! patriarchy bad!" Post-revolt, the Carja under Avad don't really seem much worse. The city and its wealth may have been the product of slave labor and blood sacrifice, but its proponents were driven out anyway. The Oseram don't really seem much worse either; they're just a lot rougher around the edges, and the Banuk, well they're weird about machines, but from what we've seen in both the vanilla game and The Frozen Wilds, they seem no less sympathetic either. Heck... If anything, had Aloy been grown in a cradle facility in Banuk land, she probably would have been embraced straight away due to their worship of the Blue Light. On top of that, every other tribe fully allows people to explore as they please without being permanently barred from returning. Rost's backstory basically illustrates just how backwater their little culture is... Rost is treated like a total pariah when he should have been hailed a goddamn hero by everyone, and if the Matriarchs had their way, the story of Rost's life and how he avenged their people would be forgotten forever by an ungrateful tribe. A Carja, Oseram or Banuk would have freely slaughtered the outlanders that killed their families and be welcomed home as their reward. The reason the Nora were so sympathetic in appearance is because of just a few key characters, like Teersa, Rost, Teb, that one merchant who breaks the law selling her things, and the few NPC's desperate enough to not care about tribal law. Fair bet Varl and the rest would have treated her like shit before the Proving.
|
|
lynroy
N6
Thief
Current Location: Washington DC
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3tWits
PSN: The3tWits
Prime Posts: 24,721
Prime Likes: 34,638
Posts: 7,923 Likes: 20,102
inherit
Thief
80
0
May 21, 2024 14:29:54 GMT
20,102
lynroy
Current Location: Washington DC
7,923
August 2016
lynroy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The3tWits
The3tWits
24,721
34,638
|
Post by lynroy on Mar 23, 2018 14:58:03 GMT
I should clarify that I don’t think Twilight is popular due to Mormonism. Maybe the other poster does, but there... aren’t really enough Mormons to go around. Plus most Mormons are pretty chill about doctrine. I think stories like it tap into some specific emotions in people who were raised Evangelical, which was how I was raised. There are a lot more of those, and quite honestly the Evangelical view of sex and relationships is appallingly unhealthy. Add in a dash of the racism that plagues some strains of Southern Baptist thought (and despite the name, you can find “Southern Baptist” congregations all over — I wasn’t anywhere near the South, and my pastor went to the Southern Baptist conference), and there are also some really ugly hangups about sex with “the other”. I see. It's all good. I really just wanted to perhaps clarify how Mormons view sex. Being given the power to create human life is Divine. It is a sacred power that should only be employed between a husband and a wife in marriage. That's why there are such strict commandments with regards to its use like chastity and fidelity, and warnings against pornography, smutty literature, crude photos or jokes, etc. It is definitely not something to fear but to treat with reverence and respect. So from that perspective abortion is not taken lightly. It's not forbidden but serious consideration needs to be taken like circumstances and threat to the mother's life. Edit: Superman is my ultimate Mary Sue. THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION! How is it brand new if we've had this conversation before? How much did you drink? Also, I'M NOT TAKING IT BACK!
|
|
mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 12,116 Likes: 30,349
inherit
ღ The Untitled
72
0
1
Jan 31, 2024 11:38:50 GMT
30,349
mousestalker
Just here for the cosplay
12,116
August 2016
mousestalker
Mousestalker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by mousestalker on Mar 23, 2018 15:05:25 GMT
Everyone has missed the mark.
Wesley Crusher is the ultimate MarySue.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Mar 23, 2018 15:22:48 GMT
I should clarify that I don’t think Twilight is popular due to Mormonism. Maybe the other poster does, but there... aren’t really enough Mormons to go around. Plus most Mormons are pretty chill about doctrine. I think stories like it tap into some specific emotions in people who were raised Evangelical, which was how I was raised. There are a lot more of those, and quite honestly the Evangelical view of sex and relationships is appallingly unhealthy. Add in a dash of the racism that plagues some strains of Southern Baptist thought (and despite the name, you can find “Southern Baptist” congregations all over — I wasn’t anywhere near the South, and my pastor went to the Southern Baptist conference), and there are also some really ugly hangups about sex with “the other”. I see. It's all good. I really just wanted to perhaps clarify how Mormons view sex. Being given the power to create human life is Divine. It is a sacred power that should only be employed between a husband and a wife in marriage. That's why there are such strict commandments with regards to its use like chastity and fidelity, and warnings against pornography, smutty literature, crude photos or jokes, etc. It is definitely not something to fear but to treat with reverence and respect. So from that perspective abortion is not taken lightly. It's not forbidden but serious consideration needs to be taken like circumstances and threat to the mother's life. Evangelicals don’t teach fear of sex either... not overtly. But because they’re a lot more into the fire and brimstone angle, fear underpins everything even when it’s couched in this “you should want to do this to please God” language. Evangelical kids are petrified of doing anything even slightly grey, because it’s a sign they “don’t really love God and were probably not sincere about asking for salvation”. It’s this weird construction where supposedly faith is more important than works, but works are the proof that the faith was actually genuine. So in a roundabout way, even though they’re supposedly forgiven, if they’re not totally righteous then they’re probably bound for hell. Even thinking lustful thoughts about someone you’re not married to is considered a deviation from righteousness. Since thoughts are involuntary, everything even slightly adjacent to sex has this haze of hellfire around it. So Evangelical adolescents end up projecting their hormones onto the few targets that are considered acceptable. Violent media is usually allowed, so that’s one option. Another option is monster romance, where the monster is either figurative (i.e. abusive/dangerous) or literal, and it comes to represent all those pent-up anxieties about sex which they aren’t allowed to think about directly. TL;DR: Evangelicalism sucks and I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.
|
|
heathenoxman
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: rohlfdawg
PSN: rohlfdawg83
Posts: 239 Likes: 454
inherit
751
0
454
heathenoxman
239
August 2016
heathenoxman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
rohlfdawg
rohlfdawg83
|
Post by heathenoxman on Mar 23, 2018 15:28:08 GMT
To get the ball rolling let me introduce Aloy the protagonist from Horizon Zero Dawn 41zxbw463fq733z1kl101n01-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Horizon-Zero-Dawn-complete-editionm-750x430.jpgFor those who have not played Horizon Zero Dawn major spoilers ahead Aloy is a great example of a Mary Sue not only in her current incarnation as Aloy but as Dr Elisabet Sobeck the infallible woman she was cloned from who saved the world (from the disaster unleashed by a filthy arrogant and ignorant male) previously before the events of Horizon Zero Dawn even begin. Basically what happens is Chad Thundercock the filthy white heterosexual male who is also the CEO of some tech company ignores the advice of Elisabet Sobeck and unleashes an army of unstoppable death robots who end up getting out of control (because who needs safety controls AMIRITEGAIZ?) and threaten to destroy the world and turn it into an uninhabitable wasteland. Then because he has a moment of realization that this problem is not going to be solved without the help of a strong independent woman he calls back Elisabet Sobeck and grovels for her help despite ignoring her warnings before because she is the only one who can save the world. Elisabet Sobeck then leads a team of scientists and creates a female AI that is supposed to repopulate the earth once the evil death robots run out of fuel and Elisabet Sobeck manages to save the world for the next generation of humans if not for the current generations of humans. However before she can get to the bunker where she will live out the rest of her life while the world fixes itself something goes wrong and threatens the whole project so she has to go out and fix it knowing full well she will be locked out of the bunker and will die earlier than predicted as a result getting her "heroic sacrifice ending" (another common trope of the Mary Sue) and everyone left in the bunker gets all sad and everyone gives her a heartfelt tribute because she saved the world and was so great. Everything seems to go ok for a while until Chad Thundercock and his flawed heterosexual white male brain decides that he hasn't fucked things up enough already and wipes out the entire worlds knowledge so the next generation of humans wont be able to learn from their mistakes (most specifically HIS mistake) and kills the rest of the scientists left in the bunker because YOLO (unless you are Elisabet Sobeck as we will soon find out) and all that is left of humanity dies out.
Then a 1000 or so years pass and the Female AI decides it is time to start repopulating the earth so she clones new humans to repopulate the earth, but without any prior knowledge to learn from humanity essentially has to start from scratch forming new tribes and shit, but then a couple hundred years later the EVIL NASTY YUCKY MALE subroutine that was hidden in GAIA designed to destroy the world wakes up and threatens to destroy everything, GAIA isnt able to delete the white male subroutine from her database so she has to seperate herself from it and decides that the only logical course of action is to create an exact clone of Elisabet Sobeck because only somebody with her perfect DNA will be able to fix the problem, Elisabet Sobeck is cloned and dumped on the doorstep of a Tribe run by the Matriarchs and then she grows up and solves everybodies problems because she is perfect, Also all the good male characters fall in love with her as well, even the Prince tries to awkwardly ask her out straight after learning that his former love and advisor just died to which Aloy responds by clearly showing him to the friendzone. she also knows things that the other people of the world have no way of knowing like the world is round not because GAIA was able to instill all of Sobeck's previous knowledge in but rather because she is just that much smarter than everyone else and is able to figure out all this stuff on her own despite never having been exposed to any of it before. And while I know many of you may not like to acknowledge that Horizon Zero Dawn has a feminist bias because you actually like that game but cmon, Horizon Zero Dawn is pretty fucking feminist, seriously all the women are either strong and independent, fearless leaders or innocent victims while all the men are either weak and cowardly, assholes, or subordinate to their female betters. Even the "good" male characters in leadership roles are shown to be lost without the wisdom of their female advisors, Erend is constantly like "oh no now that my sister is dead how will I ever cope without having her tell me what to do" while Sun King Avad is all like "oh now now that Erend's sister is dead how will I cope without having her tell me what to do?". So what? The media is awash in male power-fantasies. There's nothing wrong with a fictional setting in which women are favored.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 15:28:16 GMT
Certainly more sympathetic than the Patriarchal and classist Carja who built their immense wealth off the backs of slave labour and kept order through blood sacrifice. Besides it is really only the male characters of the Nora who embody the more xenophobic aspects of the tribe with such gusto, the female members of the tribe are generally seen as more sympathetic and accepting of Aloy while the males are quick to throw stones. The Nora are clearly supposed to be the more sympathetic tribe in the region having a strong sense of honor and pride and living as one with the land not taking more than they need to survive. They also live at relative peace not fighting unless provoked or in self defense and even their legal system is set up to be more forgiving and less harsh with the most heinous of crimes being punished with the most feminist punishment of all, the silent treatment! Compared with the other tribes of the world it is pretty clear that the Nora are supposed to be the most sympathetic and good tribe which follows the games overarching theme of "matriarchy good! patriarchy bad!" Post-revolt, the Carja under Avad don't really seem much worse. The city and its wealth may have been the product of slave labor and blood sacrifice, but its proponents were driven out anyway. Yeah but pre-revolt and post-revolt Carja are 2 entirely different entities, it is clear that Soy King Avad is trying to move the Carja in a more feminist direction at the advice of his strong female advisor who he seems lost without her guidance now that she is dead. Besides a lot of the filthy male members of the Carja still seem pretty stuck in their ways however and Avad knows that he needs to change hearts and minds and slowly introduce gender quotas and whatnot before his people will accept a full on matriarchy.
|
|
heathenoxman
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: rohlfdawg
PSN: rohlfdawg83
Posts: 239 Likes: 454
inherit
751
0
454
heathenoxman
239
August 2016
heathenoxman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
rohlfdawg
rohlfdawg83
|
Post by heathenoxman on Mar 23, 2018 15:30:14 GMT
In my opinion the term Mary Sue is over used and generalized to the point of absurdity and meaninglessness. At this point, any character that doesn't suffer from a crippling flaw is declared a "Sue."
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 15:36:01 GMT
To get the ball rolling let me introduce Aloy the protagonist from Horizon Zero Dawn 41zxbw463fq733z1kl101n01-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Horizon-Zero-Dawn-complete-editionm-750x430.jpgFor those who have not played Horizon Zero Dawn major spoilers ahead Aloy is a great example of a Mary Sue not only in her current incarnation as Aloy but as Dr Elisabet Sobeck the infallible woman she was cloned from who saved the world (from the disaster unleashed by a filthy arrogant and ignorant male) previously before the events of Horizon Zero Dawn even begin. Basically what happens is Chad Thundercock the filthy white heterosexual male who is also the CEO of some tech company ignores the advice of Elisabet Sobeck and unleashes an army of unstoppable death robots who end up getting out of control (because who needs safety controls AMIRITEGAIZ?) and threaten to destroy the world and turn it into an uninhabitable wasteland. Then because he has a moment of realization that this problem is not going to be solved without the help of a strong independent woman he calls back Elisabet Sobeck and grovels for her help despite ignoring her warnings before because she is the only one who can save the world. Elisabet Sobeck then leads a team of scientists and creates a female AI that is supposed to repopulate the earth once the evil death robots run out of fuel and Elisabet Sobeck manages to save the world for the next generation of humans if not for the current generations of humans. However before she can get to the bunker where she will live out the rest of her life while the world fixes itself something goes wrong and threatens the whole project so she has to go out and fix it knowing full well she will be locked out of the bunker and will die earlier than predicted as a result getting her "heroic sacrifice ending" (another common trope of the Mary Sue) and everyone left in the bunker gets all sad and everyone gives her a heartfelt tribute because she saved the world and was so great. Everything seems to go ok for a while until Chad Thundercock and his flawed heterosexual white male brain decides that he hasn't fucked things up enough already and wipes out the entire worlds knowledge so the next generation of humans wont be able to learn from their mistakes (most specifically HIS mistake) and kills the rest of the scientists left in the bunker because YOLO (unless you are Elisabet Sobeck as we will soon find out) and all that is left of humanity dies out.
Then a 1000 or so years pass and the Female AI decides it is time to start repopulating the earth so she clones new humans to repopulate the earth, but without any prior knowledge to learn from humanity essentially has to start from scratch forming new tribes and shit, but then a couple hundred years later the EVIL NASTY YUCKY MALE subroutine that was hidden in GAIA designed to destroy the world wakes up and threatens to destroy everything, GAIA isnt able to delete the white male subroutine from her database so she has to seperate herself from it and decides that the only logical course of action is to create an exact clone of Elisabet Sobeck because only somebody with her perfect DNA will be able to fix the problem, Elisabet Sobeck is cloned and dumped on the doorstep of a Tribe run by the Matriarchs and then she grows up and solves everybodies problems because she is perfect, Also all the good male characters fall in love with her as well, even the Prince tries to awkwardly ask her out straight after learning that his former love and advisor just died to which Aloy responds by clearly showing him to the friendzone. she also knows things that the other people of the world have no way of knowing like the world is round not because GAIA was able to instill all of Sobeck's previous knowledge in but rather because she is just that much smarter than everyone else and is able to figure out all this stuff on her own despite never having been exposed to any of it before. And while I know many of you may not like to acknowledge that Horizon Zero Dawn has a feminist bias because you actually like that game but cmon, Horizon Zero Dawn is pretty fucking feminist, seriously all the women are either strong and independent, fearless leaders or innocent victims while all the men are either weak and cowardly, assholes, or subordinate to their female betters. Even the "good" male characters in leadership roles are shown to be lost without the wisdom of their female advisors, Erend is constantly like "oh no now that my sister is dead how will I ever cope without having her tell me what to do" while Sun King Avad is all like "oh now now that Erend's sister is dead how will I cope without having her tell me what to do?". So what? The media is awash in male power-fantasies. There's nothing wrong with a fictional setting in which women are favored. Yeah we hear this a lot but I don't think I have seen anything in modern media that pushes male supremacy as much as this game pushes female supremacy. But you mistake me for saying that this is a bad thing or that this game shouldn't exist which isn't what I am saying at all. If this is the game the designers wanted to make then all the more power to them. Ok well I admit the writing is eyerollingly bad with how thick they lay it on but this did not bother me so much as I found it amusing and fun to laugh at, and even if I disagree with their message I can still enjoy the gameplay aspects of the game of which this was a pretty decent open world adventure game, not the best game I have ever played but fun enough.
|
|
heathenoxman
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: rohlfdawg
PSN: rohlfdawg83
Posts: 239 Likes: 454
inherit
751
0
454
heathenoxman
239
August 2016
heathenoxman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
rohlfdawg
rohlfdawg83
|
Post by heathenoxman on Mar 23, 2018 15:43:03 GMT
So what? The media is awash in male power-fantasies. There's nothing wrong with a fictional setting in which women are favored. Yeah we hear this a lot but I don't think I have seen anything in modern media that pushes male supremacy as much as this game pushes female supremacy. But you mistake me for saying that this is a bad thing or that this game shouldn't exist which isn't what I am saying at all. If this is the game the designers wanted to make then all the more power to them. Ok well I admit the writing is eyerollingly bad with how thick they lay it on but this did not bother me so much as I found it amusing and fun to laugh at, and even if I disagree with their message I can still enjoy the gameplay aspects of the game of which this was a pretty decent open world adventure game, not the best game I have ever played but fun enough. Having been on this planet for 34 years, and having been a nerd for that entire time, I've encountered plenty of fiction "patriarchal worlds." They just don't stand out as much because "male supremacy" is considered "normal." It's fairly obvious to me that the world of HZD is matriarchal. It reminded me of "The Wheel of Time" series, which also involved matriarchy. I don't see a problem with that, but I did find certain aspects cringey. For example, I can't stand the fact that every man Aloy encounters falls in love with her.
|
|
inherit
Elvis has left the building
9443
0
324
Gandalf the Fabulous
716
Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
gandalfthefabulous
|
Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Mar 23, 2018 15:57:32 GMT
Yeah we hear this a lot but I don't think I have seen anything in modern media that pushes male supremacy as much as this game pushes female supremacy. But you mistake me for saying that this is a bad thing or that this game shouldn't exist which isn't what I am saying at all. If this is the game the designers wanted to make then all the more power to them. Ok well I admit the writing is eyerollingly bad with how thick they lay it on but this did not bother me so much as I found it amusing and fun to laugh at, and even if I disagree with their message I can still enjoy the gameplay aspects of the game of which this was a pretty decent open world adventure game, not the best game I have ever played but fun enough. Having been on this planet for 34 years, and having been a nerd for that entire time, I've encountered plenty of fiction "patriarchal worlds." They just don't stand out as much because "male supremacy" is considered "normal." It's fairly obvious to me that the world of HZD is matriarchal. It reminded me of "The Wheel of Time" series, which also involved matriarchy. I don't see a problem with that, but I did find certain aspects cringey. For example, I can't stand the fact that every man Aloy encounters falls in love with her. Well it isn't just the fact that a lot of the tribes have matriarchal power structures and females in leadership roles however the theme of female supremacy kind of extends to all characters within this world not just those in a leadership role. I mean I am sure you can point out many fictional worlds that feature more patriarchal power structures but if we were to use one as an example like A song of Ice and Fire you will see that even though most of the civilizations in this world feature a patriarchal power structure there is still a fairly good mix of characters in both genders that have redeemable qualities and less redeemable qualities, despite the fact that it is a largely patriarchal world you still have a lot of strong female characters and even female characters who actively challenge the gender roles of that universe like Brienne of Tarth and whatnot. In Horizon Zero Dawn however almost all of the quests and characters are pretty one sided, the only good men in this world are the ones who accept matriarchal rule and control and the rest are shady cowards or assholes, if there is a quest that features opposition between a man and a woman you can almost guarantee that the man will be the one in the wrong while the woman is either the victim or the one trying to put things right.
|
|