n7rhysj
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Post by n7rhysj on Mar 20, 2017 23:21:50 GMT
Lets be fair if BW made a game like Dragon age orgins again would it sell well open world games are the thing currently.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 20, 2017 23:43:29 GMT
Lets be fair if BW made a game like Dragon age orgins again would it sell well open world games are the thing currently. Yes, yes it would. bioware did the same type of game for like 20 years, through various different "trends" and continued to be praised for their brilliance and quality. Why? Because they are, or were, good at 2 things, world building and writing interesting characters. These are qualities that defy trends, that will always be popular and in demand for an RPG. RPGs are a niche market, and while companies continue to water them down in various ways to make them more mainstream the objective qualities that make "good" RPGs have never changed, because every RPG that does them, is lauded with praise. Take PoE as a prime example, that game is a dinosaur as far as trendiness goes, and it's critical acclaim with many is obvious. Bioware is either no longer willing, or capable, of doing what made them famous. That is really all this is.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 20, 2017 23:44:34 GMT
Getting praised and making sales are not the same thing.
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Post by n7rhysj on Mar 20, 2017 23:49:05 GMT
Lets be fair if BW made a game like Dragon age orgins again would it sell well open world games are the thing currently. Yes, yes it would. bioware did the same type of game for like 20 years, through various different "trends" and continued to be praised for their brilliance and quality. Why? Because they are, or were, good at 2 things, world building and writing interesting characters. These are qualities that defy trends, that will always be popular and in demand for an RPG. RPGs are a niche market, and while companies continue to water them down in various ways to make them more mainstream the objective qualities that make "good" RPGs have never changed, because every RPG that does them, is lauded with praise. Take PoE as a prime example, that game is a dinosaur as far as trendiness goes, and it's critical acclaim with many is obvious. Bioware is either no longer willing, or capable, of doing what made them famous. That is really all this is. Since the EA takeover they have watered down the RPG elements in most of the games especially ME 2 and ME 3 DA I being the exception I really wish the next DA would be in DA O style but I fear EA don’t believe it would sell or BW feel they can make an amazing game what ever the premise and mechanics are rather than sticking to their pedigree
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Post by joren123 on Mar 20, 2017 23:54:31 GMT
Nothing wrong with open world, but I think they focused on the wrong aspects of it. Let's be real, noone wants to manually scan 4 billion things just to craft the paint can you will color your gun with. They spend so much time emphasizing this chosen one image like in every generic MMO, and then just like in every generic MMO, go make their hero go gather rocks or push the wheelbarrow to the gardener. Surely being able to delegate tasks to others should be possible? If I have to do everything myself anyway, why do I even need to bother waking up the rest of the ark. 10,000 mouths but only 1 pair of hands?!
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 21, 2017 0:06:44 GMT
The problem with Bioware also has to do with their leaders(not EA), I mean the people that run the studio. They're also to blame frankly.
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Post by alihou on Mar 21, 2017 0:25:14 GMT
nope, not open worlds. Uninspired direction. Bad writing and a complete disregard for the lore. The technical issues are the least of my problems.
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Post by derrame on Mar 21, 2017 3:20:47 GMT
take ME and ME2 maps for example, extremely atmosferic , you really feel in some of those unknow planets in the far reaches of the galaxy, or inside an alien ship or even a normal outpost, Virmire, Ilos, Illium, Omega, the collector ship, the geth dreadnought, etc, not open worlds, but lot of ambience, depth, context, meaningful details and still big enough to fight there, run, cover, use powers, and decisions, recruitng archangel for example, you can decide how to protect and attack the suicide mission for example, filled with content, not so big map, but big enough, you choose who attacks, who preotects, who escapes, etc, every detail matters, meaninguful decisions and the perfect ambience and environment, the streets of omega with sick people, the batarian preacher, no open worlds but small- normal maps every single optional mission/ side quest in ME2 was perfect, atmosferic, deep, makes sense ME:A has all of that too. It's just not limited to the narrow, boring corridors that you consider atmospheric. And it's simple, don't play the optional content in the open worlds. Just play the story like you would in ME2 or ME3
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 21, 2017 3:41:18 GMT
I actually agree here about open worlds. Just not a fan. It's nice when I have a clear path to where I need to go. I mean, we get that to some extent with map markers but I don't need to be rolling around the same area repeatedly because something is up on a ledge but I can't tell and have no idea where I'm supposed to be. I'll mark that as the thing I like least about MEA.
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Post by pantherdane on Mar 21, 2017 3:50:07 GMT
Let's be Honest: Baseless Speculation is the Problem
lol. sure, open world might not work out so much, but how many who is outright saying this right now has played this game more than a few hours? baseless speculation (your statement may become true, but it is speculation right now)
hey, just burn out the main story and ignore the side quests and open space. better yet, play MP and you definitely don't have an open world. or, if its what you REALLY want, play another game.
In about 10 mins I'm gonna play some MEA
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Post by malanek on Mar 21, 2017 4:05:42 GMT
Let's be Honest: Baseless Speculation is the Problem lol. sure, open world might not work out so much, but how many who is outright saying this right now has played this game more than a few hours? baseless speculation (your statement may become true, but it is speculation right now) hey, just burn out the main story and ignore the side quests and open space. better yet, play MP and you definitely don't have an open world. or, if its what you REALLY want, play another game. In about 10 mins I'm gonna play some MEA It's speculation, but it's not baseless. By now players have played DAI, played a ten hour trial, and read reviews. That is a lot of information to be making speculation on. I do think the game has been very ambitious, and that has led to a lack of focus. One of the ways they could focus more would be to not be open world. They could have also had less focus on combat, no multiplayer, no romance, less dialogue, lower quality graphics etc. Personally I think the best option would be not open world, but then I don't like any open world games.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 21, 2017 4:12:32 GMT
Open world idea is being pushed on BioWare from upper EA management because it's a hot ticket these days.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Mar 21, 2017 4:13:58 GMT
Lets be fair if BW made a game like Dragon age orgins again would it sell well open world games are the thing currently. Plenty of linear games still sell well.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 21, 2017 4:18:58 GMT
Honestly I have felt I have a weird relationship with Open World games.
On the one hand there are games...like Skyrim that I really did not care for that much.
But then there are open world games, or open world games that I like- and even love. Fall Out 4, Witcher 3, Dragon Age Inquisition.
But then I feel like the open world games and aspects of the game do hold those games back in some form or another.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 21, 2017 5:07:01 GMT
I can't blame them for trying to make the game itself bigger, but alot of reviews are criticizing this game for that aspect. It seems alot of the tasks are uninspired and are glorified fetch quests and most feel like they have very little impact on the overall story...alot of filler.
And that is the problem with open world games....you can get lost in a bunch of useless or uninspired quests that kinda takes you out of the game itself, but it becomes a somewhat of a chore if you are the type of person that wants to see or solve everything. I'm assuming some of these quests are interesting, but reviews are saying alot of them are just lacking. Bioware obviously wanted us to heavily explore since we are in a sense exploring planets, but i guess in hindsight, these quests should have been a bit more contained?
I didn't mind the linear approach of earlier games since the narrative was kept tight and any side missions or DLC, flowed nicely with the main missions and they didn't feel awkward. We'll see....hate to criticize Bioware in this fashion because it seems they was genuinely trying to give us the biggest game they could produce. I haven't played the game yet, but looking at vids of the game overall, eh there are some weird looking character gestures and facial animations....i just feel like in that perspective, the game needed a bit more polishing and tweaking...
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Post by dlaren on Mar 21, 2017 5:49:04 GMT
I like the open worlds, I just don't like the tools I'm being given to fight across them.
In Dragon Age: Inquisition they gave me open-worlds to explore and then ruined the experience of fighting across them by removing the Tactics menu & limiting the number of abilities on my toolbar.
Now Mass Effect: Andromeda has given me the task of increasing planet viability, but you've made that experience less engaging by taking away pause-and-play combat & my ability to control which powers my squadmates use.
I remember when these used to be strategy-games I didn't mind the fetch-quests & busy-work; now that Bioware is in the business of releasing action-RPG's, the filler-content is becoming less enjoyable.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 21, 2017 6:02:59 GMT
"We learned from our mistakes. It won't be massive and empty with dumb boring sidequests. We took a lot of influence from Witcher 3. We promise"
I could build a new PC if I had a nickel for every time someone brought up that anecdote from Bioware.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 21, 2017 6:14:15 GMT
Hi I'm an obsessive completionist gamer that must explore and do every quest in order to feel better even though I don't enjoy it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 6:37:35 GMT
Open world idea is being pushed on BioWare from upper EA management because it's a hot ticket these days. Skyrim numbers! Witcher numbers! Open world RPGs, when successful, are massive hits. Both Skyrim and TW3 sold over 10 million units each, a number that no Bioware game has yet to reach. Unfortunately I don't think open world in Bioware games is going away because of the potential (however remote) for a Bioware game to move as many units as either of those two games. DA4 will be open world, the new IP will probably be open world, and so will ME5 if it ever happens. Hopefully however management learns to limit scope to a level they can execute well without sacrificing quality elsewhere in the game. That has yet to happen for Bioware.
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Post by leonick on Mar 21, 2017 7:03:44 GMT
How is Ubisoft superior? Sure they look good but aren't that high on content. I think some of WB games would have been better if they where linear tbh. Arkham knight, City, origin and middle-earth did open world better than DAI and MEA. I base this primarily on how much shitfetch quests there are. That is not a property of open world games. Yes, they tend to have them, but so did ME3 and frankly those are the worst fetch quests I can think of. If you are an obsessive completionist I undestand how it might be an issue, but really, you don't have to do the fetch quests, the majority of "tasks" in MEA can even be declined. Shadow of Mordor would have been far superior if it was linear. Its most praised feature, the Nemesis system, probably wouldn't work very well in a linear game. Wasn't the most interesting open world though, had they gone linear it might very well have ended up better.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 21, 2017 7:49:49 GMT
Shadow of Mordor's open world was cack. Witcher 3's, from what I played, looked nice but felt completely unnecessary.
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 21, 2017 7:54:58 GMT
Open world idea is being pushed on BioWare from upper EA management because it's a hot ticket these days. Skyrim numbers! Witcher numbers! If that's the idea, then BioWare/EA top execs continually fail to learn what makes those games such a success. Open world isn't be-all and end-all of those games. Elder Scrolls are first and foremost sandboxes, which is no the same as open world, while Witcher has unparalleled quest design and artistic vision. It's *those* things that make them such a wild success, not simply slapping together open maps with busywork and calling it a day. BioWare seems willing to ape the form, yet miss the substance.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 21, 2017 7:58:01 GMT
I rather like exploration and open maps. I'll be pleased to hear if the side-content is optional, however, I know not everyone does.
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Post by ATR16 on Mar 21, 2017 8:02:14 GMT
Open world is a problem, especially after they said it won't be empty and filled with boring quests, but whatever this game has called a story so far doesn't help much either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 8:03:25 GMT
Skyrim numbers! Witcher numbers! If that's the idea, then BioWare/EA top execs continually fail to learn what makes those games such a success. Open world isn't be-all and end-all of those games. Elder Scrolls are first and foremost sandboxes, which is no the same as open world, while Witcher has unparalleled quest design and artistic vision. It's *those* things that make them such a wild success, not simply slapping together open maps with busywork and calling it a day. BioWare seems willing to ape the form, yet miss the substance. So much that. If Bioware is going to stick to open world it would be better off taking a hard look at what made TW3 successful. It is similar series to Bioware games in that characters and story are the main draw, unlike Skyrim and other Elder Scrolls game, which are more about exploration and sandbox shenanigans in the open world. As beautiful as TW3 was, it wouldn't have been successful without side quests that weren't as rich in interesting and memorable characters and stories as the critical path. CD Projekt Red was also very good at making it's open word, particularly the hubs, feel like real, living, breathing places. Who wouldn't want to see a place like Nos Astra on Illium for example, get the Novigrad treatment? Take my money now.
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