Elfen Lied
N3
Fatebinder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 372 Likes: 465
inherit
Fatebinder
1384
0
465
Elfen Lied
372
Sept 1, 2016 14:36:41 GMT
September 2016
elfenlied
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Elfen Lied on Mar 21, 2017 17:56:19 GMT
I hope the open world meme ends soon, even Witcher would have been a better game with less open areas and more "Polish" Agreed.. open world is a problem by default. I don't need 500 hours of gameplay in order to be satisfied. Just give me 50-60 hours of strong narration full of meaningful contents.
|
|
inherit
5170
0
Aug 24, 2017 17:19:04 GMT
192
mordrek
169
March 2017
mordrek
|
Post by mordrek on Mar 21, 2017 18:17:15 GMT
I hope the open world meme ends soon, even Witcher would have been a better game with less open areas and more "Polish" Agreed.. open world is a problem by default. I don't need 500 hours of gameplay in order to be satisfied. Just give me 50-60 hours of strong narration full of meaningful contents. Open world is fine, it just needs to have the engaging to content too.
|
|
inherit
1817
0
8,411
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
3,386
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 21, 2017 19:32:22 GMT
This does look like another big swing and a miss for Bioware and open world. I'd be happy with ME5 (assuming we get one) going back to corridors, so long as the game was well made. Not every game needs to be Skyrim or The Witcher 3. Gosh, me too... If the next Bioware game is open world again I might not buy it. They just don't understand open world, and it works against what they did best: a strong emotional narrative. W3 is the ONLY open world game that somehow pulled off the magical balance between exploration and narrative that I believed was impossible to achieve. An oxymoron even. Bethesda rules supreme over highly interactive playground open worlds that can be modded into anything you want, but they have shit narratives. That's ok though because nobody plays their games for the story. I think I spent 50 hours decorating my homes... *cough* I play Bioware games for the character drama and excellent cinematic narrative (even if the plots are typically weak). Which is why DA2 in hindsight is my favorite game of that franchise. It's pure narrative, and a great one at that. Best central plot and best protagonist (by far!) of the series to me. The tedious open world aspect of DAI has killed my desire to replay. And that's a damn shame. It's the only Bioware game I have only finished once. A tighter linear narrative would have prevented most of the hate the game generated, I'm sure. I still have a complicated relationship with open world. I both hate and love it. Hate it when done poorly, love it when done right. And even when done right it eats so much time that I don't ever want to see the game again. I still replay the trilogy sometimes. It's like rewatching one of your favorite action movies. Chat with your buddies, get to know cool aliens, kick some ass. The interesting thing about Mass Effect was not the godawful Mako "exploration", it was alien cultures. Politics. Characters. Friendship. I don't want to scan rocks all day, I do enough boring repetitive crap at work, I want a good narrative and poignant character moments that make me tear up, dammit!
|
|
Wynne
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 199 Likes: 658
inherit
2935
0
Jul 12, 2017 21:55:28 GMT
658
Wynne
199
January 2017
wynne
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Wynne on Mar 24, 2017 17:42:35 GMT
I'd really rather have a good game than an open world. An engaging narrative will always win, for me. Open world I can take or leave. I don't think I'll ever bother with another Bethesda game, in fact. They just... can't do story, and I get bored after 5 minutes in an empty lifeless game world full of gimmicks. Witcher 3 I haven't touched because it's marketed pretty strictly to het males. Might change my tune if Ciri gets her own playable title.
DAI would have been amazing if it had contained fewer locations with more story. Less Forbidden Oasis, more Hissing Wastes (but smaller.) If I never see another dull brown desert it will be too goddamned soon.
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 17:47:27 GMT
At this point is anyone actually good at doing open world besides CDPR and Rockstar? I would still put Bioware ahead of Ubisoft and WB when it comes to open world games. Nope, Bioware open worlds are inferior to Ubisoft and especially WB. Whoa whoa whoa...have you played Watch Dogs, Division, or Ghost Recon Wildlands??? I'm sorry, but Ubisoft is the poster child for filler quest structure.
|
|
inherit
1286
0
2,137
SofNascimento
1,316
Aug 27, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
August 2016
sofnascimento
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
|
Post by SofNascimento on Mar 24, 2017 17:54:14 GMT
No, it's not.
Many series, like The Witcher and Metal Gear, made a successful transition to open world.
The problem is lack of talent.
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 17:56:53 GMT
I semi-agree with the OP on this issue, but in truth I think a bigger part of the issue is "trophy-whoring". People pushing to get 100% on things is what burns them out.
You really don't have to do all the filler stuff anyways, but then people say things like, "but i'm missing out on that XP, or I want the trophy!".
Not really saying anything is wrong with that in itself, moreso just pointing to it as a pretty big factor to how people get burned out.
I'd imagine the majority of people that feel like MEA is too "grindy" with filler side-quests are also the same people that look at the map to decide which quest to hit next with proximity in consideration. Because they're planning on doing it as "efficiently" as possible to get EVERYTHING cleared out.
The people not as upset are probably ignoring the majority of "tasks" and just doing story with a location and ally quest here and there mixed in.
Just my 2cents.
|
|
inherit
5079
0
May 17, 2024 17:04:24 GMT
1,749
ShadowAngel
#more Asari
1,552
Mar 19, 2017 16:14:51 GMT
March 2017
uegshadowangel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
UEG ShadowAngel
|
Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 24, 2017 18:11:27 GMT
I think it's just the lack of talent and open world being a new concept to them. Andromeda is almost exactly how I pictured mass effect and being an open world exploration was the original view from bioware when they started the franchise. The corridor based style that ME2 and 3 used was pretty bland and really it's been done many times over. Those games relied on character and story which is fine, but I prefer the exploration feeling Andromeda gives and if bioware does it right they can mix the story with open world exploration and make a great game. The original trilogy was great, I poured thousands upon thousands of hours into them, but being more action based with minimal rpg elements in corridor based environments wasn't what I expected or wanted when they continued the series after the first. The first was the best, because it was the closest to an open world exploration game that it was originally meant to be as a series.
So I'm short, the issue is bioware itself, not the game going to an open world style (which I believe mass effect should've been from the start).
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 18:21:41 GMT
No, it's not. Many series, like The Witcher and Metal Gear, made a successful transition to open world. The problem is lack of talent. Right until you go to their forums and read all the "omg, what's with this stupid filler fetch quest garbage? why can't I fast travel more? why do I have to keep returning to main base? ugh, stupid developers should've taken more time". Let's be real, game forums are mostly full of complaints by gamers that expect perfection. Keep in mind, this is the same franchise in which enough people whined about the ending to the game and the devs caved and provided new endings lol. Gamers complain about everything and anything. Especially the things they liek the most ironically enough. I respect that you feel The Witcher and MGS were good open-world games, but you do understand that there are others that feel the opposite. There is nothing "objective" about that specifically. Do you think talentless people could make a game like this? Really? lol. A bunch of kids taking 2 month game development course from Udemy could've done this? Because that's what I think when someone says "lack of talent", I think of amateurs. I think a tad bit more respect should be given to the development team that creates a project this large with this much ambition is due...even if you don't particularly enjoy it.
|
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,147
AnDromedary
4,399
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Mar 24, 2017 18:25:47 GMT
I don't think so. I actually think the open approach could work very well, especially for this more exploration focused storyline. I think what's missing is a bit of variety. Having a few huge planets is great but it should have been intermixed with smaller scenarios. I could imagine that it would have made things feel much better if we would have found one landing zone in almost every system but not all of them are huge planets. Some of them should be smaller areas, say a space station with a particular side quest (like Grissom Academy in ME3) or maybe even some ME2-N7 style short missions in a confined Kett base, things like that. It would have been great if we entered a system and we don't know what awaits us, rather then knowing "ok, here I'll only be scanning" or "aha, another huge planet to drive the Nomad around and go through the motions". That's what makes it repetitive and that repetitiveness is a huge problem for almost all open world games I know (especially the two we've seen from BW so far).
|
|
inherit
4979
0
123
commandercole5
106
Mar 18, 2017 19:48:43 GMT
March 2017
commandercole5
|
Post by commandercole5 on Mar 24, 2017 18:44:52 GMT
Everyone needs to take a hint from HZD, Open world games by and large are irritating now. HZD had a fairly small map, but it had a LOT packed into it. And very few fetch quests. This has way to big maps and wayyyyyyy to many fetch quests...basically fuck fetch quests
|
|
inherit
5787
0
249
parnashwind
249
March 2017
parnashwind
|
Post by parnashwind on Mar 24, 2017 18:48:17 GMT
Do you think talentless people could make a game like this? Really? lol. A bunch of kids taking 2 month game development course from Udemy could've done this? Because that's what I think when someone says "lack of talent", I think of amateurs. I think a tad bit more respect should be given to the development team that creates a project this large with this much ambition is due...even if you don't particularly enjoy it. Then you are wrong with that assumption. Amateurs can be very talented, it just happens that they do not do what they are talented for a living because reality. Not everyone is talented in what they do for a living as well. So no, talentless does not mean amateurs. Just look at the many modder communities. Bioware is trying very hard to bring this... Open World aspect into ME:A. I can see they spent a lot of time in environmental and level design but at what cost? I am actually enjoying ME:A. The only problem with ME:A I believe is presentation. A lot of quest in TW3 are actually not that complex plot wise but the presentation is done so well that the players feel immerse.
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 18:49:32 GMT
This has way to big maps and wayyyyyyy to many fetch quests...basically fuck fetch quests But do you ever stop and consider, "Hey...I don't need to do these, and if I don't do them, it doesn't really change anything...in fact, it's almost like they're not even in the game and I can just enjoy doing the story, exploring, and maybe some of my allies loyalty missions" ?? If I laid a bunch of nice sugary biscuits AND some food you don't like (I just assume everyone loves sugary biscuits/cookies and am not sure what you don't like, just fill in the blank) around you, do you somehow feel compelled to eat both? Now if everything in the game is not to your liking, I can understand...but if it's just the fetch quests/tasks...you can just ignore them =)
|
|
inherit
4979
0
123
commandercole5
106
Mar 18, 2017 19:48:43 GMT
March 2017
commandercole5
|
Post by commandercole5 on Mar 24, 2017 18:51:00 GMT
This has way to big maps and wayyyyyyy to many fetch quests...basically fuck fetch quests But do you ever stop and consider, "Hey...I don't need to do these, and if I don't do them, it doesn't really change anything...in fact, it's almost like they're not even in the game and I can just enjoy doing the story, exploring, and maybe some of my allies loyalty missions" ?? If I laid a bunch of nice sugary biscuits AND some food you don't like (I just assume everyone loves sugary biscuits/cookies and am not sure what you don't like, just fill in the blank) around you, do you somehow feel compelled to eat both? Now if everything in the game is not to your liking, I can understand...but if it's just the fetch quests/tasks...you can just ignore them =) I wish I could but seeign all the icons and shit gets under my skin.
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 18:51:26 GMT
Do you think talentless people could make a game like this? Really? lol. A bunch of kids taking 2 month game development course from Udemy could've done this? Because that's what I think when someone says "lack of talent", I think of amateurs. I think a tad bit more respect should be given to the development team that creates a project this large with this much ambition is due...even if you don't particularly enjoy it. Then you are wrong with that assumption. Amateurs can be very talented, it just happens that they do not do what they are talented for a living because reality. Not everyone is talented in what they do for a living as well. So no, talentless does not mean amateurs. Just look at the many modder communities. Bioware is trying very hard to bring this... Open World aspect into ME:A. I can see they spent a lot of time in environmental and level design but at what cost? I am actually enjoying ME:A. The only problem with ME:A I believe is presentation. A lot of quest in TW3 are actually not that complex plot wise but the presentation is done so well that the players feel immerse. Fair point. And in truth, the word amateur (depending on context) can be used to discuss level of ability as WELL time in the game, or whether or not they currently are employed to do it. So my apologies for not being more specific...I kinda felt we were using the talent context and such could be inferred easily, but you're right - it could've been misleading. Regardless, a group of "talentless" people did not create this game. Anyone that believes such is just being overly critical and relying on hyperbole to bolster their opinions.
|
|
inherit
5695
0
33
psychomunkay
51
Mar 23, 2017 17:03:55 GMT
March 2017
psychomunkay
|
Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 18:54:11 GMT
But do you ever stop and consider, "Hey...I don't need to do these, and if I don't do them, it doesn't really change anything...in fact, it's almost like they're not even in the game and I can just enjoy doing the story, exploring, and maybe some of my allies loyalty missions" ?? If I laid a bunch of nice sugary biscuits AND some food you don't like (I just assume everyone loves sugary biscuits/cookies and am not sure what you don't like, just fill in the blank) around you, do you somehow feel compelled to eat both? Now if everything in the game is not to your liking, I can understand...but if it's just the fetch quests/tasks...you can just ignore them =) I wish I could but seeign all the icons and shit gets under my skin. I hear ya, I have a lot of friends like that - and in truth I used to be the same way. I cured myself of the "completionist" attitude with DAI. I just said, "forget it, i'm leaving the hinterlands". Ever since that game, I can now approach an open world title with a lot more enjoyment. Even really bad ones like Watch Dogs. I make my own enjoyment and just choose what I want to do. This is why earlier in this thread I mention trophy/completionist mentality is a big part of why people get burned out.
|
|
inherit
1039
0
3,037
Lebanese Dude
Anti-Gamer Culture
1,520
Aug 17, 2016 14:13:30 GMT
August 2016
lebanesedude
|
Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 24, 2017 19:07:55 GMT
Not sure if it was mentioned, but no it's not.
It's people completionist mentalities. Don't do what you don't like. They're called choices. Make them.
If you don't like exploration, just go from X to Y. Pretend it's linear. If someone asks you to help them out and you don't want to, just say NO. If you don't like learning about the world, don't talk to people. If you could give a rat's ass about world-building, don't help anyone and do the bare minimum.
You are fully capable of doing that. It REALLY is not that hard of a concept.
|
|
Astralify
N2
My face is tired.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 54 Likes: 69
inherit
4852
0
69
Astralify
My face is tired.
54
Mar 17, 2017 19:18:25 GMT
March 2017
astralify
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Astralify on Mar 24, 2017 19:17:47 GMT
Not sure if it was mentioned, but no it's not. It's people completionist mentalities. Don't do what you don't like. They're called choices. Make them. If you don't like exploration, just go from X to Y. Pretend it's linear. If someone asks you to help them out and you don't want to, just say NO. If you don't like learning about the world, don't talk to people. If you could give a rat's ass about world-building, don't help anyone and do the bare minimum. You are fully capable of doing that. It REALLY is not that hard of a concept.
|
|
Amirit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 460 Likes: 594
inherit
1019
0
594
Amirit
460
Aug 16, 2016 17:49:54 GMT
August 2016
amirit
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Amirit on Mar 24, 2017 19:31:29 GMT
At this point is anyone actually good at doing open world besides CDPR and Rockstar? I would still put Bioware ahead of Ubisoft and WB when it comes to open world games. Well I don't like open world games full stop. Didn't like Morrowind or Oblivion and never tried Skyrim because of that. Didn't like Assassin Creed games. I didn't like The Witcher 3 To me it was just a slower tedious version of The Witcher 2, which had its strength in the story and not in the game play. It does annoy me a bit that people gush over those games yet crucify Bioware for the same slow pace tedious gameplay, although I guess with some of them it is mainly down to polish. I do like the combat at least in MEA (which is infinitely better than witcher combat) so hopefully that will entertain me but there seems to be a lot of problems with the game, including a large number of technical problems. It has a giant scope and doesn't really feel finished, smooth or remotely well play tested. This game is not really targeted at me (the single player part at least), but even the people who love these slow paced open world games do not seem impressed. I'm really questioning a lot of the design decisions Bioware are making and I think they need to take a good hard look at what they have actually produced and consider whether they are actually proud of it. I'm not going to say I am done with Bioware, but they are not really making games I like any longer. Agree with the first part of your statement - do not understand it either. Big empty world o Skyrim is fine, but in case of BW an attempt to make an open world is a crime suddenly. Have to disagree about unsuccessful open world in case of MEA. I think they nailed it - they found the way to make it work. Explorin IS the beg (main even) part of the game. You might not like it, sure, but it's totally justified, makes sense and does not break the story since it IS the story. I like it.
|
|
inherit
1039
0
3,037
Lebanese Dude
Anti-Gamer Culture
1,520
Aug 17, 2016 14:13:30 GMT
August 2016
lebanesedude
|
Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 24, 2017 19:49:34 GMT
Thank you for the visual demonstration. Doing what you don't like is equivalent to head-desking. Make the choice. Stop the exploration. Save a life from possible concussion.
|
|
inherit
3134
0
79
Transcendent
78
Jan 30, 2017 19:00:27 GMT
January 2017
transcendent
|
Post by Transcendent on Mar 24, 2017 19:57:01 GMT
The problem isn't the open world aspect. All the worlds look beautiful and building outposts and increasing the viability is incredibly reward to watch unfold. The problem is, a lot of the streamlined side quests are incredibly mundane and boring. Sure, if it's to help the Angara because someone was captured, fine. But needlessly scouring for resources or something else that is mundane gives a less rewarding experience.
|
|
inherit
1544
0
Feb 25, 2021 11:56:07 GMT
2,466
Andrew Lucas
1,562
Sept 11, 2016 18:33:18 GMT
September 2016
andrewlucas
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 24, 2017 20:06:06 GMT
No, it's not. Many series, like The Witcher and Metal Gear, made a successful transition to open world. The problem is lack of talent. 5? You are crazy. It's no better than DAI's areas. Get out of here will ya.
|
|
inherit
217
0
Member is Online
May 17, 2024 17:44:29 GMT
2,792
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
1,705
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Mar 24, 2017 20:21:44 GMT
I'm normally a fan of open world thanks mostly to the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, GTA, Far Cry series and Red Dead Redemption; however, I feel the open world concept has started to ruin video games since now it's something that's on a clipboard to be checked off and if you don't do it, that's a big negative. Look at MGS, it was perfectly fine as a corridor and area based series, but then it went open world and the gameplay was ruined because of it. The worlds are so barren and lifeless and just home to a bunch of fetch quests and occasional hostile outpost. If you're going to have open world games, go all out and put things that are not simply fetch quests and the occasional Bandit/Merc.
|
|
Astralify
N2
My face is tired.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 54 Likes: 69
inherit
4852
0
69
Astralify
My face is tired.
54
Mar 17, 2017 19:18:25 GMT
March 2017
astralify
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Astralify on Mar 24, 2017 20:27:35 GMT
No, it's not. Many series, like The Witcher and Metal Gear, made a successful transition to open world. The problem is lack of talent. 5? You are crazy. It's no better than DAI's areas. Get out of here will ya. Delusions... Delusions and Self-deception everywhere.
|
|
kerg
N1
Posts: 10 Likes: 9
inherit
5720
0
Mar 25, 2017 20:11:22 GMT
9
kerg
10
Mar 23, 2017 20:25:35 GMT
March 2017
kerg
|
Post by kerg on Mar 24, 2017 20:34:54 GMT
Glad to finally see some significant backlash to the massive open world madness. Hopefully it will continue to gather momentum, and some new studio will emerge to once again give us some great linear, story-focused RPG's like the Bioware of old. Sort of like FromSoftware did by bringing back the concept of difficulty and challenge, with huge success.
Massive open world games certainly have their place. But trying to make one that also has an exciting and dramatic story like the original ME trilogy did just doesn't work. The two genres need to be kept separate. People point to the Witcher 3, and yes, that's probably the best attempt at it yet, but even it got bogged down in endless side content that ended up taking much of the wind out of the sails of the main story. TW3 would have been a much better game with smaller maps and with most of the filler content left on the cutting room floor.
|
|