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Post by Walter Black on Jul 19, 2018 20:24:56 GMT
Gotta say I was a little disappointed. While I appreciate reflecting the reality that some things you just can't get over, the whole exchange felt like The Last Resort of Good Men all over again. As if Dorian and Halward had not progressed even a little. Mostly, I'm ticked at Gaider for teasing, then yanking away the possibility of hearing from Aquinea  . |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 19, 2018 22:01:59 GMT
Gotta say I was a little disappointed. While I appreciate reflecting the reality that some things you just can't get over, the whole exchange felt like The Last Resort of Good Men all over again. As if Dorian and Halward had not progressed even a little. Mostly, I'm ticked at Gaider for teasing, then yanking away the possibility of hearing from Aquinea  . I disagree that it was just a rehash of The Last Resort of Good Men. Dorian shows growth and is better able to handle the emotional situation. Before his time in the Inquisition, I think he would have just walked out in that one moment. In addition, we see more contrition from Halward and a clear admission that he knows what he did was wrong, which is more than Last Resort showed us. Finally, we see that Halward is finally able to see Dorian for the competent, skilled man that he is, not the obedient son he wanted, and that this is what makes him a worthy successor, not producing more mage babies. Dorian needed to hear those things and I do think that the piece resolved some of those issues for him quite nicely. Dorian may never be able to forgive, but the encounter did give him closure. |
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Post by vertigomez on Jul 20, 2018 3:12:54 GMT
I enjoyed the story. Was blindsided by Dorian using blood magic so casually, but it just gives his character more nuance (well, as much as I-guess-technically-not-canon creator fanfic can?). Not that he especially needs more nuance or anything, but it's another facet of the whole and that's fun to explore. That was definitely the biggest shock to my system but I think I like it.
Wasn't surprised by his conversation with Halward, but I thought the caged bird metaphor was lovely, moreso because of Halward's acknowledged resentment, how envious he was that Dorian thought to free himself at all. It was just really interesting.
I also loved the peek into Tevinter funeral customs. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 20, 2018 4:33:52 GMT
I enjoyed the story. Was blindsided by Dorian using blood magic so casually, but it just gives his character more nuance (well, as much as I-guess-technically-not-canon creator fanfic can?). Not that he especially needs more nuance or anything, but it's another facet of the whole and that's fun to explore. That was definitely the biggest shock to my system but I think I like it.
Wasn't surprised by his conversation with Halward, but I thought the caged bird metaphor was lovely, moreso because of Halward's acknowledged resentment, how envious he was that Dorian thought to free himself at all. It was just really interesting.
I also loved the peek into Tevinter funeral customs. You shouldn't be. Dorian's (and Halward's) objections to blood magic aren't on moral grounds. Well, not completely, anyway. Dorian even specifically says, "Your blood or that of a willing participant? What's the harm?" The problem comes in when you need more power. "And you always need more." That need for increasing power, that temptation, is what leads to demon summoning and slave sacrifices, which is the point where the morality comes in.
As an example, I don't think Dorian would have much objection to Isolde sacrificing herself for Connor. It's a shitty situation all around, but he wouldn't act about it as Alistair does, which is basically to say, "How can more evil solve anything?"
Halward also apparently believed (and taught Dorian) that it's akin to cheating -- "the resort of the weak mind." Resorting to using blood magic as an easy fix for more power means that you can't hack it on your own abilities. That is also not about morality; it's about extreme pride and confidence in oneself that would lead a man like Halward to believe this.
As a man with that belief, it's even more shocking that Halward even considered using it. Not only did he betray Dorian with the attempt, but betrayed himself, and according to himself, showed his own weakness with that action. There is nothing that a prideful man like Halward would loathe in himself more than a show of weakness. That must have been galling. But he did it anyway because he was so desperate he was willing to try anything.
And there is where "temptation" comes in. Everyone has their breaking point. This is what leads Dorian to have "temptation" on his stone in the Fade. Is there something that will make him sacrifice his own morality and beliefs for an easy power fix? I'd argue that as long as Dorian has enough self-awareness to realize it's a possibility, he's already guarded against it.
Aside from that, Dorian acknowledges the irony of using it in the moment, considering what happened between them and what Halward planned to do.
(Sorry that post got overly long. I get carried away when writing about Dorian...)
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Post by vertigomez on Jul 20, 2018 5:20:11 GMT
I enjoyed the story. Was blindsided by Dorian using blood magic so casually, but it just gives his character more nuance (well, as much as I-guess-technically-not-canon creator fanfic can?). Not that he especially needs more nuance or anything, but it's another facet of the whole and that's fun to explore. That was definitely the biggest shock to my system but I think I like it.
Wasn't surprised by his conversation with Halward, but I thought the caged bird metaphor was lovely, moreso because of Halward's acknowledged resentment, how envious he was that Dorian thought to free himself at all. It was just really interesting.
I also loved the peek into Tevinter funeral customs. You shouldn't be. Dorian's (and Halward's) objections to blood magic aren't on moral grounds. Well, not completely, anyway. Dorian even specifically says, "Your blood or that of a willing participant? What's the harm?" The problem comes in when you need more power. "And you always need more." That need for increasing power, that temptation, is what leads to demon summoning and slave sacrifices, which is the point where the morality comes in. As an example, I don't think Dorian would have much objection to Isolde sacrificing herself for Connor. It's a shitty situation all around, but he wouldn't act about it as Alistair does, which is basically to say, "How can more evil solve anything?"
Halward also apparently believed (and taught Dorian) that it's akin to cheating -- "the resort of the weak mind." Resorting to using blood magic as an easy fix for more power means that you can't hack it on your own abilities. That is also not about morality; it's about extreme pride and confidence in oneself that would lead a man like Halward to believe this. As a man with that belief, it's even more shocking that Halward even considered using it. Not only did he betray Dorian with the attempt, but betrayed himself, and according to himself, showed his own weakness with that action. There is nothing that a prideful man like Halward would loathe in himself more than a show of weakness. That must have been galling. But he did it anyway because he was so desperate he was willing to try anything. And there is where "temptation" comes in. Everyone has their breaking point. This is what leads Dorian to have "temptation" on his stone in the Fade. Is there something that will make him sacrifice his own morality and beliefs for an easy power fix? I'd argue that as long as Dorian has enough self-awareness to realize it's a possibility, he's already guarded against it.
Aside from that, Dorian acknowledges the irony of using it in the moment, considering what happened between them and what Halward planned to do. (Sorry that post got overly long. I get carried away when writing about Dorian...)
I never said that Dorian objected to blood magic on moral grounds and I'm not surprised at his willingness to use it when push comes to shove; my surprise was at the casual hand-slicey nature of it, like "nbd just gonna talk to my dead dad." It makes sense and it's in-character, it just came off as slightly more nonchalant than even his comments in the game suggested to me. Not a bad thing. Just interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 9:29:53 GMT
Fourth time round and I've finally got Bull and Dorian together, their little bits of dialogue in Trespasser are adorable.  Tho it shouldn't be so hard to activate BioWare.  |
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Post by opuspace on Jul 20, 2018 15:57:58 GMT
Fourth time round and I've finally got Bull and Dorian together, their little bits of dialogue in Trespasser are adorable. Tho it shouldn't be so hard to activate BioWare. Agreed. I'd rather have banter trigger more often, then recycle so we can appreciate it more. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 16:06:12 GMT
Fourth time round and I've finally got Bull and Dorian together, their little bits of dialogue in Trespasser are adorable. Tho it shouldn't be so hard to activate BioWare. Agreed. I'd rather have banter trigger more often, then recycle so we can appreciate it more. It's easier now I have More Banter installed, it's sad how much I missed before that. |
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 21, 2018 13:15:45 GMT
Gotta say I was a little disappointed. While I appreciate reflecting the reality that some things you just can't get over, the whole exchange felt like The Last Resort of Good Men all over again. As if Dorian and Halward had not progressed even a little. Mostly, I'm ticked at Gaider for teasing, then yanking away the possibility of hearing from Aquinea . I disagree that it was just a rehash of The Last Resort of Good Men. Dorian shows growth and is better able to handle the emotional situation. Before his time in the Inquisition, I think he would have just walked out in that one moment. In addition, we see more contrition from Halward and a clear admission that he knows what he did was wrong, which is more than Last Resort showed us. Finally, we see that Halward is finally able to see Dorian for the competent, skilled man that he is, not the obedient son he wanted, and that this is what makes him a worthy successor, not producing more mage babies. Dorian needed to hear those things and I do think that the piece resolved some of those issues for him quite nicely. Dorian may never be able to forgive, but the encounter did give him closure. Fair enough, but I still would have liked Aquinea's perspective. |
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Post by Sifr on Jul 23, 2018 3:13:28 GMT
Fourth time round and I've finally got Bull and Dorian together, their little bits of dialogue in Trespasser are adorable.  Tho it shouldn't be so hard to activate BioWare.  I know, I spent hours in the Hissing Wastes trying to trigger their dialogue. Still, it made it all the more rewarding when I got to double-date with them in Trespasser. 
(Also I had no idea there was a slide where Bull rescued Dorian from an assassination attempt, that was an unexpected kick in the feels)  |
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Post by pensieve on Jul 23, 2018 16:00:02 GMT
I want to trigger that romance so bad but I just can't bring myself not to romance Dorian. How do people do that :exicted:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 18:45:48 GMT
Fourth time round and I've finally got Bull and Dorian together, their little bits of dialogue in Trespasser are adorable. Tho it shouldn't be so hard to activate BioWare. I know, I spent hours in the Hissing Wastes trying to trigger their dialogue. Still, it made it all the more rewarding when I got to double-date with them in Trespasser.
(Also I had no idea there was a slide where Bull rescued Dorian from an assassination attempt, that was an unexpected kick in the feels) Double date? |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jul 24, 2018 1:22:53 GMT
I want to trigger that romance so bad but I just can't bring myself not to romance Dorian. How do people do that 
Play as female. 
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Post by Sifr on Jul 24, 2018 21:33:31 GMT
Ah, it's what I dubbed my party because it had two sets of couples in it, Dorian and Bull and my Inquisitor and LI.
(Although being invited out on an actual double-date would be kinda cool, put that down on my Bioware wishlist)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 21:57:13 GMT
Ah, it's what I dubbed my party because it had two sets of couples in it, Dorian and Bull and my Inquisitor and LI.
(Although being invited out on an actual double-date would be kinda cool, put that down on my Bioware wishlist)
I thought so, but a teeny tiny part of me hoped it might be an actual cutscene. *sigh*  |
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
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Post by melbella on Jul 25, 2018 0:54:54 GMT
Ah, it's what I dubbed my party because it had two sets of couples in it, Dorian and Bull and my Inquisitor and LI. 
(Although being invited out on an actual double-date would be kinda cool, put that down on my Bioware wishlist)
You just know they'd get everything planned out but end up attacked by something to ruin it all.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 26, 2018 16:06:59 GMT
Fair enough, but I still would have liked Aquinea's perspective. May be there is the remote chance this is because she is going to appear in the next game and DG didn't want to tread on their toes. I've always thought there is a good chance that a side-quest or even a main quest next game could be tracking down Halward's murderers and talking to Aquinea would be relevant since she was actually around whereas Dorian was down south. However, it could just be that DG wasn't interest in exploring the dynamics between Dorian and his mother beyond the fact that he prefers to avoid her where possible. Not one mention of his mother was positive in the game. He had some good memories of his father (according to Cole), which is why what Halward did hurt him so much but his mother just came across as the typical clichéd noble mother who can't be bothered with bringing up her kids or only makes contact in order to criticise. I found the most interesting bit of conversation about her occurred in Trespasser where Dorian says that she was drunk as usual the last time he saw her, which was before Halward's death. That was enlightening because clearly his mother was probably drowning her sorrows and may have been the source of Dorian's habit of doing the same. It also gave a bit of nuance to her than simply a cold hearted bitch. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 26, 2018 20:45:30 GMT
However, it could just be that DG wasn't interest in exploring the dynamics between Dorian and his mother beyond the fact that he prefers to avoid her where possible. Well he did mention that the inspiration for the piece came as a response to a discussion with someone. It could be that the person wondered about exactly why Halward kept Dorian as his heir, or just why Dorian accepted the position when -- as clearly stated in the piece -- he had never shown any desire for it. None of that involves Acquinea and she remains a peripheral character as she has been (for the audience) all along. I'm sure many of us assumed that the primary reason Dorian accepted was because he saw it as his chance to truly work within the system and do some good. But this is perhaps an indication that this final conversation with Halward was a nudge in that direction. |
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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2018 0:06:21 GMT
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Post by pensieve on Jul 29, 2018 18:40:30 GMT
I want to trigger that romance so bad but I just can't bring myself not to romance Dorian. How do people do that
Play as female.
I'll try! (Though I predict I'll want to replay as a male immediately when I enter Redcliffe and meet Dorian) |
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2018 6:27:23 GMT
I'll try! (Though I predict I'll want to replay as a male immediately when I enter Redcliffe and meet Dorian)
I had pretty much the same response my first ever game where I had opted for playing a female elf in order to romance an elf and then had a big reason to regret my decision even before I was abandoned by Solas. However, my character didn't know in advance that Dorian is gay like I did, so she flirted with him and had the same dilemma as I did because she was really attracted to Dorian (particularly after that shared experience together in the future). Then she finally found out the truth and settled for Dorian as her BFF. Unlike Solas, Dorian did not disappoint her.
From my POV Solas left me feeling very deflated at the end of the game, which is not how I wished to finish. Seeing my girl standing alone on the balcony with still no idea why he had left her was not good. This was nothing to do with being disappointed in love in game so much as art mirroring life and I play the games to get away from that.
Luckily the prospect of romancing Dorian made me plunge straight back in from the beginning and I was glad that I did because it was a much better experience, I loved the romance and, unusually for a second run, it was his ending that gave me the uplifting emotional impact I was looking for, when Dorian expressed his delight that we had both survived and you could see the love between them as we exchanged glances as everyone was cheering. That time round the party at the end really did feel like a celebration and then Dorian told me he was staying (at least for the time being) before the final scene with us standing together on the balcony looking into the sunset. Perfect. |
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Post by Sifr on Jul 31, 2018 4:20:25 GMT
I want to trigger that romance so bad but I just can't bring myself not to romance Dorian. How do people do that Play as female.
Pfft, as if that prevents my Femquisitors from hitting every flirt option anyway.
Even if it goes nowhere, I love the playful flirting and hilarious banter between the two. |
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Post by pensieve on Jul 31, 2018 16:59:33 GMT
I made it to the 'talk to Corporale Vale' mission with my female. I have a better idea than trying to trigger the Iron Bull/Dorian romance: I'm going to make my own Qunari to romance Dorian with |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 31, 2018 17:03:28 GMT
I'm going to make my own Qunari to romance Dorian with  Lol! Nice. The allure of the 'stache is great. :3 |
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Post by pensieve on Aug 9, 2018 10:00:51 GMT
Found this on pinterest and it broke my heart, but it's also so cute: |
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