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Post by colfoley on May 8, 2017 23:30:07 GMT
So as always some ground rules:
First of all I am not talking about invididual quest quality or the writing or any individual quests. There are some bad quests in MEA, there are some poorly written lines and the occasional errors in continuity. I am talking about the structure of the game's side quests, and to an extent the main quests, as a whole. The way the game is structured.
Second of all I am not talking about the Tasks. One of my favorite things that BioWare did with MEA is it removed its fetch quests from the normal quest system and called them 'tasks'. Tasks, are purposefully, not quests. They are literally things you do. No real story, no real character arcs, very straight forward go here and do this. Though there are a couple of very good Tasks too. But not talking about them.
With that out of the way...
When I first got into RPGs I really did not know what I was doing. I wasn't a serious gamer back then, I was at one time, got away from it, but video games were mindless entertainment where you just relax and take out your frustrations on visual pixels. I hadn't considered games as meaningful, deep, entertainment. Not until I played Mass Effect 2...and to a great extent ME 3 and all the lessons that came with it.
Now another thing I realized around that time, with my studies and looking into writing in general there were two distinctive forms of writing in the media world. There was movie writing, and there was television writing, both were charateristically different.
Movie writing was characterized by its relatively simple arcs. It was over and done with in the span of a very short time. Until very recently the longest movie story was pretty much trilogies, done in over in the span of roughly 6 hours of story. Not a lot of time to crunch huge meaningful stories into their framework.
Television on the other hand is characterized by its much more long term story and character arcs. With dozens of episodes per seasons, and a lot of modern stories lasting anywhere between 5 and ten seasons that is a lot of time to devote to a story, or a lot of individual stories. Even the smallest television program tends to have more time to devote to its story(ies) then even the most longest movie. Again until recently.
Now video games have always tried to imitate...movies. Video games, again until VERY recently, took more story ques from movies then they have from television writing. Even the longest and most complicated RPGs in recent years are relatively simple and straightforward series of stories. in other words tv writing from say...the sixties. Writing where the events of one installment (quest) really did not neccessarily have anything to do with any events outside of the relationship to the quest. Straightfoward, simple stories.
This never made sense to me, upon realizing there is a difference, I was like 'well why don't games...especially RPGs...try and imitate...say tv shows rather then movies?' Afterall modern games especially you can get lost to them for up to two hundred hours at a time. But often enough the world is disconnected from one another. There are lots of individual stories, but they don't really have much impact on the overall game itself. Sometimes yes. Not until Mass Effect Andromeda, and quite probably the Witcher 3 came out. With these two games, finally, video games are starting to do long term story arcs with its quests, and quests relating one to another in surprising ways.
Mass Effect Andromeda's side quests, and tasks for that matter, are intentionally separated into four separate areas. Main plot, allies and relationships, Heleus Assignments, and Tasks. It is structured like...well a season of Farscape. Main plot, the overall arc of the series, the season finales and the whole stuff with the whormholes and Crichtons character arc. The Allies and relationships, the episodes that focus on expanding the lore, the world, and focusing on each invididual member of Moya's crew, or even some of the bad guys in the series. And the Heleus assignments, random adventures, throw away episodes that don't REALLY tie into an overall story arc, relatively one off and you can even skip them and not miss too much, but sometimes they do relate in surprising ways.
Its all about continuity, and this is why I think Andromeda is well written. Because there is a huge sense of continuity in it. The main quest is wonderfully tight, with each bit contributing to plot and character developments later on. But even in the dialogue line, how a throwaway line by Jaal sets up the exact ending scene of his loyalty mission, or how a throwaway line by Peebee relates to something like three quests in the game, and the whole subplot of the game that there is something really shady about the Andromeda Initative. Something you probably would not notice without a second PT. And this is not even touching on all the relations, and the evidence for it, within the game for the Remnant and the Angarra.
And yet, Andromeda gets a lot of flack for its writing? Why? Well one reason is because there is some elements of poor writing here and there. The romance dialogue can come off especially cringy...but I think its mainly because its different. Its something new. And its something that forces you to play it because there are so many hmm moments which paints a larger picture in the game, and maybe even for future games. So many lines that are like 'well that's intersting, so that is what that means, what does that mean?' and there is a lot of payoff in the game, and a lot I hope in future games.
BAnd all this comes together at the end of the game, the ending, if you put the effort in and play the game, the ending feels special. Your hardwork is reflected. Exactly like some of the best tv shows.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 9, 2017 0:31:17 GMT
Note: I wrote as I thought so it may read as word vomit.
I would respectfully say MEA side quests were subpar because of how they concluded each time. They don't give the player a gratifying ending nor many twists to make the player ponder about them. They just end. The loyalty missions are an exception but they feel more like main campaign missions really. None of them though are that rewarding. Witcher 3, used all the time but for good reason, has side quests that flesh out fully with some kind of impacting ending. There is usually some kind of mini boss to fight, the twist to the outcome based on a decision, and usually some kind of reward for completing them. Delivering a pendant or stopping an outbreak just seems to end abruptly in MEA with a notification. Coming across Angaran bodies leads to a larger side quest where you piece together a story but in the end, you just get another notification on the screen that the quest is complete. No real emotion nor consequence or reward.
Even the 100% viability and outposts beyond Eos seems to really be lacking. The outposts in general have almost no side quests as well and just feel like empty shells. This was also a missed opportunity that I hope to see revitalized in DLC. In my second play through, I have no real incentive to do all the vaults anymore or establish all the outposts, because it doesn't really reward me anything besides cryo pods. The cryo pods feel like they aren't necessary to survive or succeed. That's a flaw. Picking flowers, branches, and robot parts in Horizon Zero Dawn felt necessary and motivating because, as a mechanic, it was necessary to not get your ass kicked. Preparation and survival in HZD feels fun and not tedious. MEA's minerals and searching all feels optional which diminishes its value. It could also be fun if it had more survival elements and put crafting to use at the forward stations; building medkits, ammo types, etc. Same reason Its fun scrounging for scissors, nails and tape in The Last of Us.
The rewards don't need to be guns or armor either in the case of the viability missions. They could have locked new types of side quests, tasks, and perks behind the viability and outpost quests. A system that would have worked to incentivize the player more is:
-have the vaults, minor side quests, etc on each planet contribute to viability of planet to establish colony as it currently is now. -Vault acts as zelda dungeon with a unique boss in each that gives new remnant tool or ability separate from the other skills (like the four divine beast powers in Zelda BOTW or the override ability from HZD cauldrons). Having it add to new abilities with the scanner, jet pack, ground pound, etc would have worked. Discharging an electric field when you do a ground pound from the air could have been one. Adding anti gravity for even higher jumping could have been another. Automatically reviving you with a large cooldown another. -Small side quests end more with someone talking over the vidcom or having an NPC provide a rare weapon or armor piece. Having an unexpected twist at the end or advancing the small side quest to a larger more impactful one would have been better. -once you establish an outpost, you now have access to new types of side quests. (defending outpost caravans, surveying specific or hidden landmarks, Nomad racing (why is there only one nomad even after other outposts are established?), Krogan fighting pits, gambling or mass effect card game, Hunting legendary Eirochs or other bounties, gathering lost/stolen supplies from raiders or kett. (Some of this is seen on EOS, but again not on other planets) -Outpost apex npcs randomly show up to help fight during random encounters. Or you may have defend them during random encounters while exploring
Conclusion: I am rewarded with more content and rare items for completing side content besides just for the sake of having them done. There are more dynamic changes to the over-worlds (npcs traveling, morale of characters, new types of content to engage with, etc).
We see this with the main crew, the Hyperion, the some parts of the Nexus, and the initial change after the outposts are established. This issue is each outpost seems to remain unchanged when talking to people and there are no rewards or conclusions to most of the side content.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 9, 2017 0:42:57 GMT
The other complaint/comparison to something like witcher 3 is how organic the quests feel. They aren't on the level of assassins creed where there are huge markers on the map that you get from unlocking a towerso nothing feels random. You can randomly com across some quests while exploring and engage them at any point. They also aren't as organic feeling as Witcher 3 or even Zelda BOTW where you can accidentally come across the ending of the quest without ever properly activating it. There are a few instances in MEA but it is rare and not very fleshed out. The secret Charlatan base was a missed opportunity. They could have set it up to where you may have figured out Reyes' plan/identity before ever finishing that part of the story leading to a completely different outcome.
Again, rewarding the player not with an item but with opportunity, options and content.
Quests that also get put on hold don't feel very organic either.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 9, 2017 0:58:00 GMT
I liked quite a lot of Andromeda's side missions, but I hope BioWare learns from certain aspects of design that may not be all that welcome, particularly chasing leads. I enjoy clue searching and stuff like that, but I like it more when I can read or see information and then put 2 and 2 together. What I don't like is having to jump from system to system to chase a radiation trail (and this is coming from someone who actually likes the meat of the Contagion quest, what little there was). I also hope that next time Mass Effect eases up on the puzzles, though hopefully we're done with accessing remnant consoles for a while (or indefinitely).
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Post by marshalmoriarty on May 9, 2017 1:12:25 GMT
Side questing shouldn't be hard to get right. You need the following
1) A sensible starting point where you are approached, read a request or pad detailing a possible point of interest etc. If done well, the 'chance encounter' with an NPC in a scripted scene running into you or being chased etc are other acceptable formats. Anything that isn't your character breaking and entering, walking up to complete strangers who 'seem worried about something' or your guy eavesdropping and poking his nose in. Because who does that?!
2) Present a situation that invites curiosity. The scenario must be something intriguing and not just 'Can you fetch me 15 left handed glass mallets, because reasons and because I can't be bothered going myself even though its only a few yards away'.
3) Don't make it too easy, but also don't drag it out forever. Multiple solutions are welcome, but don't make players have to undergo tedious planet traveling for stuff a simple e mail or call could acomplish.
4) Give a meaningful reward. A piece of unremarkable loot is not good enough.Money is only acceptable if like DAO money is tight and good gear is very expensive. With the Paragon Renegade bars gone, this is much harder to get right as such gains were acceptable rewards. Lore wise, its unlikely side qudsts will have lasting impact, but don't miss obvious chances to have NPCs pop up to return favors. Every instance of that helps reduce the 'I'm just an errand boy helping ungrateful people' feeling.
5) Just put some effort in! Make it funny, or emotional and always keep asking yourself 'Is this enjoyable or is it boring busy work'.
Those are my criteria. MEA rarely meets them, never exceeds them but also rarely fails disasterously. The side questing is alright, which to be fair is both better than DAI and about the same as Bioware side questing has always been.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 9, 2017 5:43:35 GMT
I think this is pretty much on point. Tasks can be tedious but they're not all bad. Getting this separate header shows that they don't really contribute to the main plot so much as they do to the setting. It's like saying that not everything has to be a major quest but shit still needs to get done. One of the tasks was proving your battle worthiness to the Angarans. It's not exactly on the level of Pinnacle Station or Armax Arsenal Arena, but I gathered that was the feel they were going for. Too bad I couldn't win an amazing apartment on Aya or something. There was a big sense of what's most important (main quest) followed by other major things that aren't necessary for the main quest but will definitely enhance it (character-related quests, loyalty missions). Plot details ahead... I'm still not a fan of following a broken shuttle all over the place even if the end point of the mission itself was solid. Honestly, I hope that one has an impact on MEA2. Like, for example, do people get the virus as a result of not doing it, or allowing Ruth to live? Will Alain show up with a vengeance later or not? (We only what happens if his mother survives. If she dies, the email threat should lead to more later on.)
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Post by colfoley on May 9, 2017 5:54:26 GMT
1. I agree with a lot of what Project is saying up there. A lot of it was tedious and BioWare could have done a lot more to improve the...flow of the quests. But a lot of it had stories and plot twists and character arcs too. And the endings could have been better. That being said writing endings are one of the hardest things you can actually write. And while the quest structure overall mimics TV shows, until VERY recently those tv shows had an A plot and a B plot. But the quests in Andromeda usually just had an A plot. Granted they could touch on multiple things, but usually, they just were still pretty simple and straightforward. And...I think this is the reason they usually just 'end', that and a lot of them have an important choice at the end. hell one of the only quests that did have a proper denouncement was Overgrown.
2. The traveling around was tedious. But I think this was one of the signs of a young studio, and a lot of young game designers, trying to solve a rather complicated problem. How do you get gamers to go back to an area when you have more quests opening up after you 'finish' an area? Because Andromeda had new quests opening up in areas you visited, so they had to come up with reasons for you to keep going back there. Hence designing quests which, if you wanted to complete them, you had to go back and revisit areas. I don't mind this so much per se. I liked traveling around and revisiting old areas...but I can see how it could get tedious and wonder how they can solve it. I also really liked the 'on hold' mechanic.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 9, 2017 6:13:47 GMT
I like some side-quests in MEA. Sad that I didn't find even too many worth remembrance, like I did in MET.
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Post by Pearl on May 9, 2017 6:24:03 GMT
Some of the sidequests were okay. The vast, sweeping majority of them just abruptly end with a very bland and forgettable 30-second dialogue sequence, or a green check mark.
I really hope that if any games look to Andromeda for quest design, they look at things like the loyalty missions or the sidequest with the Primus. If they look to the myriad of unfulfilling, pointless drivel, may God have mercy on us.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 6:51:29 GMT
They had 2 good quests.
1: the turian who maybe shot his leader. Your choice in that one comes back later in ways you may not have expected.
2: on eos where you out the drills because one of your choices that actually amtters is. Y action (where you place it) not dialogue. They need more of that
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Post by suikoden on May 9, 2017 6:58:47 GMT
So as always some ground rules: First of all I am not talking about invididual quest quality or the writing or any individual quests. There are some bad quests in MEA, there are some poorly written lines and the occasional errors in continuity. I am talking about the structure of the game's side quests, and to an extent the main quests, as a whole. The way the game is structured. Second of all I am not talking about the Tasks. One of my favorite things that BioWare did with MEA is it removed its fetch quests from the normal quest system and called them 'tasks'. Tasks, are purposefully, not quests. They are literally things you do. No real story, no real character arcs, very straight forward go here and do this. Though there are a couple of very good Tasks too. But not talking about them. With that out of the way... When I first got into RPGs I really did not know what I was doing. I wasn't a serious gamer back then, I was at one time, got away from it, but video games were mindless entertainment where you just relax and take out your frustrations on visual pixels. I hadn't considered games as meaningful, deep, entertainment. Not until I played Mass Effect 2...and to a great extent ME 3 and all the lessons that came with it. Now another thing I realized around that time, with my studies and looking into writing in general there were two distinctive forms of writing in the media world. There was movie writing, and there was television writing, both were charateristically different. Movie writing was characterized by its relatively simple arcs. It was over and done with in the span of a very short time. Until very recently the longest movie story was pretty much trilogies, done in over in the span of roughly 6 hours of story. Not a lot of time to crunch huge meaningful stories into their framework. Television on the other hand is characterized by its much more long term story and character arcs. With dozens of episodes per seasons, and a lot of modern stories lasting anywhere between 5 and ten seasons that is a lot of time to devote to a story, or a lot of individual stories. Even the smallest television program tends to have more time to devote to its story(ies) then even the most longest movie. Again until recently. Now video games have always tried to imitate...movies. Video games, again until VERY recently, took more story ques from movies then they have from television writing. Even the longest and most complicated RPGs in recent years are relatively simple and straightforward series of stories. in other words tv writing from say...the sixties. Writing where the events of one installment (quest) really did not neccessarily have anything to do with any events outside of the relationship to the quest. Straightfoward, simple stories. This never made sense to me, upon realizing there is a difference, I was like 'well why don't games...especially RPGs...try and imitate...say tv shows rather then movies?' Afterall modern games especially you can get lost to them for up to two hundred hours at a time. But often enough the world is disconnected from one another. There are lots of individual stories, but they don't really have much impact on the overall game itself. Sometimes yes. Not until Mass Effect Andromeda, and quite probably the Witcher 3 came out. With these two games, finally, video games are starting to do long term story arcs with its quests, and quests relating one to another in surprising ways. Mass Effect Andromeda's side quests, and tasks for that matter, are intentionally separated into four separate areas. Main plot, allies and relationships, Heleus Assignments, and Tasks. It is structured like...well a season of Farscape. Main plot, the overall arc of the series, the season finales and the whole stuff with the whormholes and Crichtons character arc. The Allies and relationships, the episodes that focus on expanding the lore, the world, and focusing on each invididual member of Moya's crew, or even some of the bad guys in the series. And the Heleus assignments, random adventures, throw away episodes that don't REALLY tie into an overall story arc, relatively one off and you can even skip them and not miss too much, but sometimes they do relate in surprising ways. Its all about continuity, and this is why I think Andromeda is well written. Because there is a huge sense of continuity in it. The main quest is wonderfully tight, with each bit contributing to plot and character developments later on. But even in the dialogue line, how a throwaway line by Jaal sets up the exact ending scene of his loyalty mission, or how a throwaway line by Peebee relates to something like three quests in the game, and the whole subplot of the game that there is something really shady about the Andromeda Initative. Something you probably would not notice without a second PT. And this is not even touching on all the relations, and the evidence for it, within the game for the Remnant and the Angarra. And yet, Andromeda gets a lot of flack for its writing? Why? Well one reason is because there is some elements of poor writing here and there. The romance dialogue can come off especially cringy...but I think its mainly because its different. Its something new. And its something that forces you to play it because there are so many hmm moments which paints a larger picture in the game, and maybe even for future games. So many lines that are like 'well that's intersting, so that is what that means, what does that mean?' and there is a lot of payoff in the game, and a lot I hope in future games. BAnd all this comes together at the end of the game, the ending, if you put the effort in and play the game, the ending feels special. Your hardwork is reflected. Exactly like some of the best tv shows. The problem with Andromesas quests is you have to dig deep into a pile of horseshit to find the odd gem here or there. It's quantity over quality.
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Post by bizantura on May 9, 2017 9:45:57 GMT
The sidequest of MEA are ok and I did not find then tedious. I find it the better part of the game. The banter of squadmates is at times hilarious and very entertaining.
Meaningful deep entertainment thru movies, television, and gaming!!!!!!
I will stick to my library for the deep and meaningful thank you very much. For me playing RPG's are escapisms from reality and pretending to be someone totally different from reality.
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Post by colfoley on May 9, 2017 10:11:12 GMT
They had 2 good quests. 1: the turian who maybe shot his leader. Your choice in that one comes back later in ways you may not have expected. 2: on eos where you out the drills because one of your choices that actually amtters is. Y action (where you place it) not dialogue. They need more of that i think this is the wrong way to look at it. Granted personal preferences are important but if you judge side quests by how much the choices matter...especially to the game as a whole and not just the quest in question...few games do that well. Even Witcher 3 and DAO has only a handful of examples.
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Post by dm04 on May 9, 2017 12:11:48 GMT
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Post by cypherj on May 9, 2017 12:29:02 GMT
Part of the story line was colonization. All they had to do was make to quests tie directly to the colonies you started, and have the colonies grow and change based off the outcome of some of the quests, not all obviously. But a line of quests could have lead to the colony growing, adding a hydroponics lab, research labs, etc. Then the side quests would have tied into the story, and you would have wanted to do them because you would be looking forward to seeing what effect they had on your colonies.
Plus it would have made more quests planet specific and eliminated a lot of planet hopping and cutscene watching.
It also would have added more weight to which cryo pods you opened if they actually had an effect on what happened in a specific colony. Bioware had a built in way to make the quests more interesting, and have more impact on the game and they didn't take it.
I found most of the quests boring, tedious and meaningless, and the 100% viability didn't amount to anything of substance. Getting 100% viability on every world got you something you couldn't even see yet. I was halfway expecting a message that said, you can claim your reward for $10 in a DLC at a later date.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 12:42:51 GMT
I agree with the OP and bizantura I like the quest structure, and found them entertaining and easy to follow. I did not do Contagion, but I've liked Salarian's quest that did planet hop. Overall, I just accumulate things to do on each planet, and build in the visits to do sidequests I am interested in between. I also liked how the quests were all voiced. I don't really like cutscenes for conversations that are not the major plot development/emotional impact, but voicing and meeting characters that give quests is imo great. I do not mind writing in Andromeda, save for a few lines here and there. For example, I still don't get it why people are so up in arms about "my face is tired", I thought it conveyed the feeling of utter exhaustion we've all felt when trying to deal with overwhelming tasks, feeling depressed and still have to talk to people and smile (or at least not cry or growl) b/c we are always in public in the office and stuff and there is no running away. Anyways....
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Post by disi on May 9, 2017 12:43:32 GMT
What projectpatdc said, no reward and every quest is meaningless. I only finished Eos as in every single content available and before progressing the main quest as in helping those rebels.
The two major side quests on Eos:
You dig the holes to find water, someone asks you if you could dig for gas instead so they can trade it with the main outpost as exiles. Your options are "yes" or "maybe" (as usual). You dig for gas, get a green ping and quest is finished, you dig for water, get a green ping and the quest is finished. The main outpost and the exils will still trade with you either way and it will never be mentioned again.
There is the major outpost of Kett on Eos, your quest is to destroy the outpost. You fight and kill everyone inside, deactivating that shield around it, get a green ping and quest finished. Noone on Eos will ever mention the destroyed Kett outpost, you still get Kett spawning at any corner.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on May 9, 2017 12:54:10 GMT
I agree with the OP and bizantura I like the quest structure, and found them entertaining and easy to follow. I did not do Contagion, but I've liked Salarian's quest that did planet hop. Overall, I just accumulate things to do on each planet, and build in the visits to do sidequests I am interested in between. I also liked how the quests were all voiced. I don't really like cutscenes for conversations that are not the major plot development/emotional impact, but voicing and meeting characters that give quests is imo great. I do not mind writing in Andromeda, save for a few lines here and there. For example, I still don't get it why people are so up in arms about "my face is tired", I thought it conveyed the feeling of utter exhaustion we've all felt when trying to deal with overwhelming tasks, feeling depressed and still have to talk to people and smile (or at least not cry or growl) b/c we are always in public in the office and stuff and there is no running away. Anyways.... Addison should've just quoted Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School. Headache? My hair hurts!
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Bergmaniac
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Post by Bergmaniac on May 9, 2017 12:54:17 GMT
The OP must be a masochist.
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Pyrceval78
N3
Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
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pyrceval78
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Post by Pyrceval78 on May 9, 2017 12:57:23 GMT
OP on that breakfast of champions...
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 12:59:58 GMT
I agree with the OP and bizantura I like the quest structure, and found them entertaining and easy to follow. I did not do Contagion, but I've liked Salarian's quest that did planet hop. Overall, I just accumulate things to do on each planet, and build in the visits to do sidequests I am interested in between. I also liked how the quests were all voiced. I don't really like cutscenes for conversations that are not the major plot development/emotional impact, but voicing and meeting characters that give quests is imo great. I do not mind writing in Andromeda, save for a few lines here and there. For example, I still don't get it why people are so up in arms about "my face is tired", I thought it conveyed the feeling of utter exhaustion we've all felt when trying to deal with overwhelming tasks, feeling depressed and still have to talk to people and smile (or at least not cry or growl) b/c we are always in public in the office and stuff and there is no running away. Anyways.... Addison should've just quoted Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School. Headache? My hair hurts! I don't know who that is, sorry. I don't watch TV really.
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kelarqshah
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kelarqshah on May 9, 2017 13:18:20 GMT
As a lot of people have noted, most of these quests simply don't have an adequate payoff or reward.
When you clutter a map full of quest markers you encourage the player to tackle them in the most time effective way possible, because if they don't that means endless back and forth.
I'd much rather have ME3's style of side quests. Give me Grunt and the Rachni Queen, or Jack at Grissom Academy. As others have said, quality over quantity. It's all well and good taking inspiration from TV, but I'd much rather have a 10 episode season with a focused story and consistent characterisation over a 20 episode season bogged down by filler.
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Post by christsuperstar on May 9, 2017 13:38:12 GMT
No, I simply don't agree. None of the side quests were good - only close to the bare minimum I can deal with in very small quantities, were stuff like architect and the turian would-be murderer. DA:I had the same problem. This just does it a teeeeeny bit better.
Old ME series had quest with impact all the time - a part of the story somehow, or felt like it. Very little of this filler hell, that only acts as a time sink. I've stopped playing the campaign multiple times, because I'm a completionist and the filler hell makes the game feel dead and boring.
What I don't get, is how it's so effing hard to make like a few epic quest lines on each planet, that can/should tie in/impact to the main story. Sprinkle a little one time events here and there, and you got a "live world".
And the writing of some of the NPCs are laughable, without going in depth; Morda, Sloane Kelly, Addison, etc etc, who has sooo much teen wanna-be-tough attitude and vast incompetence, it's laughable. Why not give us the ability to beat them into submission, take over - because the gods knows I wanna put a bullet in Sloane Kelly myself. They came to Andromeda to start a future TOGETHER, I would love the option to go all "fuck off - join us or get left to die".
Lastly, what's with this "no matter what you decide, you can't lose" philosophy - if you make the worst possible decisions and go through the least amount of content possible, it should be possible to lose.
Besides the NPC/overtly bad plot writing hiccups that makes me facepalm, the main quest and companion quests were actually up to snuff imo, voice acting good too. Sadly, that's only 15-20% of the game - time wise. This game doesn't have you excited and engaged in the other 80-85%, and leaves you running around in a pretty, but dead, universe - that's about as exciting as levelling in vanilla WoW.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 9, 2017 13:52:41 GMT
Don't see why games should imitate andromedas quests when it's one if its flaws and is just a slight improvement over inquisitions quests. Imitating that just makes other games have bland quests if they already don't. There's various quests that are just filler and have no meaning to them at all. There is then various quests that require to much back and fourth that it's just BS at that point and drags it on when it shouldn't need to.
For the most part, these quests are just as boring as the N7 missions in ME3 or the missions in ME2/ME1 on random planets where you just go there, kill some bad guys, grab an object and call it a day. I'm going to agree with those that say 70-80% of the quests in this game is just filler and kills the experience.
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our_lady_of_darkness
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by our_lady_of_darkness on May 9, 2017 14:00:12 GMT
No, I simply don't agree. None of the side quests were good - only close to the bare minimum I can deal with in very small quantities, were stuff like architect and the turian would-be murderer. DA:I had the same problem. This just does it a teeeeeny bit better. Old ME series had quest with impact all the time - a part of the story somehow, or felt like it. Very little of this filler hell, that only acts as a time sink. I've stopped playing the campaign multiple times, because I'm a completionist and the filler hell makes the game feel dead and boring. What I don't get, is how it's so effing hard to make like a few epic quest lines on each planet, that can/should tie in/impact to the main story. Sprinkle a little one time events here and there, and you got a "live world". And the writing of some of the NPCs are laughable, without going in depth; Morda, Sloane Kelly, Addison, etc etc, who has sooo much teen wanna-be-tough attitude and vast incompetence, it's laughable. Why not give us the ability to beat them into submission, take over - because the gods knows I wanna put a bullet in Sloane Kelly myself. They came to Andromeda to start a future TOGETHER, I would love the option to go all "fuck off - join us or get left to die". Lastly, what's with this "no matter what you decide, you can't lose" philosophy - if you make the worst possible decisions and go through the least amount of content possible, it should be possible to lose.Besides the NPC/overtly bad plot writing hiccups that makes me facepalm, the main quest and companion quests were actually up to snuff imo, voice acting good too. Sadly, that's only 15-20% of the game - time wise. This game doesn't have you excited and engaged in the other 80-85%, and leaves you running around in a pretty, but dead, universe - that's about as exciting as levelling in vanilla WoW. Exactly. I regret the fact that our decisions have no real impact on our relationship with the crew (apart from "don't talk to me now" angst) - in DAI, for example, some of the companions simply leave if they disagree with your decisions, views, etc, which adds significant weight to the dynamic between the characters. The decisions we make in MAE have little to no impact on the plot whatsoever and are, imo, to a large extent insignificant.
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