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Post by sosolaris on Sept 8, 2016 19:33:53 GMT
I wonder if they'll pull an Assassin's Creed 3 and have us start the game with a sequence featuring the father. Complete with twist if he's going to be an antagonist like some people are predicting.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2016 19:39:17 GMT
This sucks. Now there being family issues/drama and them forcing your character to feel certain things is guaranteed. Bioware really can't drop a single one of their terrible cliches, can they? I do hope they'll allow more freedom in defining how our characters feels about the sibling and the father. I don't think though that having a family, in itself, it's a terrible cliché. If well executed it can be a good feature, though I know you don't like a detailed background. I doubt it. We'll be forced to feel certain ways for the purpose of the story. And no doubt something will happen with/to the father causing 'our' character to have daddy issues. In itself, no. But Bioware has never been able to do it without one or both terrible cliches applying. Yeah. Here I was foolishly hoping that my character would actually be my character. They got my hopes up with Inquisition, only to shoot them down with Trespasser and now this. I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. Meanwhile, the more defined the protagonists get like Hawke or Shepard in later games, the worse the game gets in my opinion. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist so far.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 8, 2016 19:46:27 GMT
This sucks. Now there being family issues/drama and them forcing your character to feel certain things is guaranteed. Bioware really can't drop a single one of their terrible cliches, can they? I do hope they'll allow more freedom in defining how our characters feels about the sibling and the father. I don't think though that having a family, in itself, it's a terrible cliché. If well executed it can be a good feature, though I know you don't like a detailed background. I prefer player-defined backgrounds as well but I'm staying optimistic about it since it does have story potential if done well. Partially, that means that since this was a story element that they felt needed to be mandatory then I feel they need to prove that it was worth it and truely use that family aspect for what it is worth like not use it for cheap deaths, hollow motivation or unearned emotional tugs.
I'm also hoping for a compromise in the sense that we still get to define some of our past and importantly, our relationship to our family. It can give way to a lot of variety in the relationships like love, dysfunctional love or even indifference or hate. This variety also helps avoid the character inconsistencies that can and likely will arise if there's a set relationship value. Just because someone is related to you does not necessarily mean that you will care about them or love them. That might sound horrible to some but it's an actual thing: sometimes people just wind up not feeling anything special towards their family and sometimes that is feeling based on the behavior of the family.
The quote, "Blood is thicker than water" is actually a bit of a misquote from what I know. It comes from this; “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.” This quote actuallys refers to the bond between soldiers, not a bond between blood relatives. It is commonly used to refer to loyalty and such to blod relatives but it does not actually have something to do with family.
Wait, what was I talking about? I think I got sidetracked. Oh yeah, optimism and hope and stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 19:47:03 GMT
Well, since humans can live up to 150 years if i recall right, The N7 guy AKA doomguy Dad can be at his 80s and look like... 40s? That's how damned good N7's are! The old man is still amazing, even if he is a little winded after taking that jet jump up a steep cliff. I can't stop rewatching the Ghost Ryder trailer now. I hope we can speak with him in game before whatever happens, happens. Makes me prouder to have played my favorite N7, Commander Shepard.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 8, 2016 20:03:16 GMT
The Inquisitor gets so much but they're still one of my favorite protagonists. I always imagined my main Inquisitor would have gotten along great with the Exile, one of my other favorite protagonists. Probably become good friends given that they were both complete dorks that struggled with the weight of responsibility and the experience of betrayal from someone they trusted.
Now that I think about, the Exile is probably the only character of mine from the old games who wasn't a jerk in some way. Revan was a bitch to almost every member of the crew while being nice to almost everybody outside of the crew. I always headcanoned that she was like that as Revan: it was no wonder Malak turned on her. The Spirit Monk complained and loved telling nobody anything to the point where I think Zhu's stunt was rather justified given that for all she was sharing, she looked like she might just be a narcoleptic everybody kept claiming spoke to divine beings. She was nicer than Revan, though, and did end up adopting the little girl, Wildflower.
I think it was because I went a bit overboard when I found out there was no approval meter.
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Post by Entropy on Sept 8, 2016 20:05:32 GMT
The N7 is our Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad?! Boooooooooooooooooooo, I wanted to romance him!! Can I at least act like a spoiled litter girl around him? *remembers the Couslands* *remembers the Brosca* *remembers the Aeduncan* *remembers the Hawke* *perishes the thought*
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Post by Spectr61 on Sept 8, 2016 20:09:39 GMT
Yes, but BW has a long track record of either/or moral choices. I expectct more to follow, even a self-sacrifice by sacrificing one's own sibling or family member. That... really wouldn't be a self-sacrifice since you are sacrificing someone else. Both. Each loses. Of course the chicken and the egg argument vis a vis making an omelet applies, e.g. you are impacted, but your sibling is irretrevieably impacted....
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Post by Nashimura on Sept 8, 2016 20:20:30 GMT
Not sure why... but i thought this was the case, like i already knew, assumeeed or heard it before
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 8, 2016 20:21:43 GMT
I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. Cliches are only bad if we say they are really. The same sort of stories have been told countless of times. What makes those stories contrived is how the cliches are handled, and I don't mean subverting those sort of tropes we would expect from archetypes. When writers play with those stereotypes a bit, and not take them so seriously, it is more endearing for example. So it really depends on how they are presented. It could be cliched, but it could be well done as a cliche.
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Post by AllyCatAttack on Sept 8, 2016 20:38:33 GMT
I hope this means we can steal our sibling's love interest. Maybe in doing so any sequels would involve a series of awkward interactions at family functions. In all seriousness, as much as I like the idea of having a sibling and father in the story, I hope we don't end up switching between protagonists throughout the game. I just don't feel I'll be as fully invested in my character if we switch from sister to brother and back again every so often. I wouldn't mind playing as the other sibling for a few missions, but I would prefer to stay with one Ryder for a majority of the game.
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Post by Antibaar on Sept 8, 2016 20:56:33 GMT
Who do you think is the father Ryder?Someone from original trilogy?Will he be one of our enemies?
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 8, 2016 20:56:51 GMT
I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Given the premise of the game, I hope the plot concentrates on the explore and colonization efforts. Plus, dealing with their foes and making alliances. Bio writers can then have the freedom to leave out the family drama. I'm interested in how the family patriarch is worked into the story. For example: We know, from past Bio reveals that the Pathfinder is "combat trained but untested". It's possible that N7 Ryder was the leader of the colony and got killed early by the Khet. It's at this point that young Ryder takes over and the human antagonist is born (not a bad plot introduction to the game and similar to DA:I). The siblings then split one searching colony worlds and the other assuming Command. The two intersect infrequently.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Sept 8, 2016 21:12:14 GMT
I hope this means we can steal our sibling's love interest. Maybe in doing so any sequels would involve a series of awkward interactions at family functions. In all seriousness, as much as I like the idea of having a sibling and father in the story, I hope we don't end up switching between protagonists throughout the game. I just don't feel I'll be as fully invested in my character if we switch from sister to brother and back again every so often. I wouldn't mind playing as the other sibling for a few missions, but I would prefer to stay with one Ryder for a majority of the game. That would be actually impresive (if they handle it like or better than GTA V) (2 LIs at the same time!)
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Post by linksocarina on Sept 8, 2016 21:16:00 GMT
I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Given the premise of the game, I hope the plot concentrates on the explore and colonization efforts. Plus, dealing with their foes and making alliances. Bio writers can then have the freedom to leave out the family drama. I'm interested in how the family patriarch is worked into the story. For example: We know, from past Bio reveals that the Pathfinder is "combat trained but untested". It's possible that N7 Ryder was the leader of the colony and got killed early by the Khet. It's at this point that young Ryder takes over and the human antagonist is born (not a bad plot introduction to the game and similar to DA:I). The siblings then split one searching colony worlds and the other assuming Command. The two intersect infrequently. Well, any family drama should be involved in some form. I think what you present here is a good example of it. It adds enough dynamics to the game to make it interesting, for sure. Revenge can be a good motivator like that. Another could be simply trying to strive for the ideals of the father, especially if the father is someone in N7- someone who is highly regarded. I can see the "chip on the shoulder" storyline in there too.
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Post by blastoandbubin on Sept 8, 2016 21:50:24 GMT
I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. Meanwhile, the more defined the protagonists get like Hawke or Shepard in later games, the worse the game gets in my opinion. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist so far. Well, it's always going to be different strokes for different folks, unfortunately No game or approach is going to appeal to everyone. I loved Hawke and Shepard, and I'm encouraged that Ryder appears to be following in that vein (which makes sense, given that Mass Effect has always revolved around a pretty defined character, unlike the Dragon Age series.) There are aspects of DAI I really enjoyed, but I've accepted that the DA series in general is probably just never going to be my cup of tea the way Mass Effect is. And I'm sure the inverse is true for a lot of people too. You win some, you lose some, I guess. But like I said before, I honestly think at this point we know so little about how any of this is going to play out that it's a bit pointless to get over excited or overly discouraged. The end result may be completely different than anything any of us have imagined yet, you know? But that's just my take, ymmv I'm determined to stay optimistic until proven otherwise, basically, lol.
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Post by sageoflife on Sept 8, 2016 22:19:36 GMT
So they're combining Dragon Age II with Pokemon? This actually sounds pretty good.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 8, 2016 22:22:42 GMT
I do hope they'll allow more freedom in defining how our characters feels about the sibling and the father. I don't think though that having a family, in itself, it's a terrible cliché. If well executed it can be a good feature, though I know you don't like a detailed background. I doubt it. We'll be forced to feel certain ways for the purpose of the story. And no doubt something will happen with/to the father causing 'our' character to have daddy issues. In itself, no. But Bioware has never been able to do it without one or both terrible cliches applying. Yeah. Here I was foolishly hoping that my character would actually be my character. They got my hopes up with Inquisition, only to shoot them down with Trespasser and now this. I'm happy about the reveal, honestly. I've been worried about this being DAI-lite, and the farther they get away from the nearly blank slate, one size fits all Inquisitor, the better in my opinion. It could turn out to be a terribly written mess of railroading cliches, of course, but I don't see any reason to get all doom and gloom about it yet. We still have very little information on how this is all going to play out, after all. Meanwhile, the more defined the protagonists get like Hawke or Shepard in later games, the worse the game gets in my opinion. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist so far. I'm fine with either approach, to be honest, as long as it's done well. I don't think The more detailed background make the character less mine, though I'm sorry there's another thing in the game confirmed that you dislike. The detailed background in family doesn't mean howewer they might not give us option to define it more by ourselves, like the choices you got during the glad in Inquisition. I do hope they'll allow more freedom in defining how our characters feels about the sibling and the father. I don't think though that having a family, in itself, it's a terrible cliché. If well executed it can be a good feature, though I know you don't like a detailed background. I prefer player-defined backgrounds as well but I'm staying optimistic about it since it does have story potential if done well. Partially, that means that since this was a story element that they felt needed to be mandatory then I feel they need to prove that it was worth it and truely use that family aspect for what it is worth like not use it for cheap deaths, hollow motivation or unearned emotional tugs.
I'm also hoping for a compromise in the sense that we still get to define some of our past and importantly, our relationship to our family. It can give way to a lot of variety in the relationships like love, dysfunctional love or even indifference or hate. This variety also helps avoid the character inconsistencies that can and likely will arise if there's a set relationship value. Just because someone is related to you does not necessarily mean that you will care about them or love them. That might sound horrible to some but it's an actual thing: sometimes people just wind up not feeling anything special towards their family and sometimes that is feeling based on the behavior of the family.
The quote, "Blood is thicker than water" is actually a bit of a misquote from what I know. It comes from this; “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.” This quote actuallys refers to the bond between soldiers, not a bond between blood relatives. It is commonly used to refer to loyalty and such to blod relatives but it does not actually have something to do with family.
Wait, what was I talking about? I think I got sidetracked. Oh yeah, optimism and hope and stuff.
I like both approaches to be honest. I just hope the family theme is done better then DA2.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 8, 2016 23:05:23 GMT
I can do and like both but I prefer a less or non-defined protagonist including because a poorly executed less or non-defined protagonist is easier for me to still get enjoyment from than a poorly executed defined protagonist.
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Post by Dukemon on Sept 9, 2016 0:04:22 GMT
So they're combining Dragon Age II with Pokemon? This actually sounds pretty good. That sounds very far-fetched. o.O Well, the cool N7 is the dad from the protagonist and the opposite gender is in the same world. Please, Bioware I don't want a family drama 'the evil/possessed dad and the corrupted/'I stand in your shadow. buhu' sibling. Carver was basically a very nice guy but his whimper about he is not the first child was annoying and incomprehensible and had no real basis .. He had never evidence.
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Post by Arcian on Sept 9, 2016 0:06:06 GMT
I prefer BroRyder/SisRyder....SisDer looks kinda weird to me.. Femshep and Manshep had a logical flow to it, BroRyder and SisRyder doesn't. BroDer and SisDer does. Unless you want to go with Rybro and Rysis.
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Post by sageoflife on Sept 9, 2016 0:43:18 GMT
So they're combining Dragon Age II with Pokemon? This actually sounds pretty good. That sounds very far-fetched. o.O How is it far-fetched? The gender you don't pick being a defined character in the narrative has been happening since the third generation. In any case, I'm interested in seeing how exactly this will work with the character creator.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2016 0:59:57 GMT
You know something else that is going to bug me about the sex we don't play as being our sibling? It's going to establish a canon personality for them. As a NPC, male Ryder will act a certain way and female Ryder will act a certain way. So if you ever play as that sex, basically if you don't play a certain way you aren't playing the canon way and that will feel off. Likewise the sex you used to play will act different than how you played. I fear that will create a disconnect between me the player and the 'player' character.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Sept 9, 2016 1:08:50 GMT
I am ok with the big happy family, though I suspect it won't stay happy for long.
They really should allow us to customize both the brother and sister regardless of who we play as. Something like Fallout 4.
But I hope we don't switch back and forth between the two. Especially if we are forced to play as one or the other during certain portions of the story like AC. That would irk me a bit.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Sept 9, 2016 1:25:50 GMT
You know something else that is going to bug me about the sex we don't play as being our sibling? It's going to establish a canon personality for them. As a NPC, male Ryder will act a certain way and female Ryder will act a certain way. So if you ever play as that sex, basically if you don't play a certain way you aren't playing the canon way and that will feel off. Likewise the sex you used to play will act different than how you played. I fear that will create a disconnect between me the player and the 'player' character. This... And I fear they may end up limiting the possible dialogue choices to help control the disparity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 1:29:01 GMT
I actually wish Aaryn Flynn had NOT revealed (at Playstation Meeting 2016) that the ME:A N7 is the father of the brother and sister Ryder protagonists.
It's a stunner that I would like to have discovered when the game begins, or have my jaw drop when I find it out in the prequel novel. However, if this interesting tid-bit and others are only revealed in the prequel novel, I can imagine the fiasco if the novel's release is too close (or late) to the game's release, available only in short supply, and no one knows what's going on. I really hope that doesn't happen to the novel's release.
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