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Post by Ancient on May 24, 2017 19:25:14 GMT
Smart decision. And believe me i wouldn't even want to have long discussion with you. From Bethesda forums i have learned that normal discussion with Skyrim fans is impossible. It's like having a discussion with religious fanatics. They are the most ignorant people ever. Btw, here is great Skyrim review: thenocturnalrambler.blogspot.ba/2012/02/skyrim-actually-kinda-sucks.htmlTo use one of his own assumptions on why it got such high scores: "I don't think he played the game". Sorry, but that game was revolutionary at its time, very few games did what it did and even today I don't see many outdoing it. It's a beautiful big ass fun sandbox to play in. All that matters really. You say that Skyrim was revolutionary?
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Post by kali073 on May 24, 2017 20:16:14 GMT
Oh, then I misunderstood you. Sorry. I thought you were talking about great games not the best game. I've never actually played a game I would call the best. Same with movies, music and TV series... I've never really been able to chose one as "best". I don't think taking breaks to play other games in between disqualifies them from saying it's the best game they've ever played though, because not everyone enjoys games the same way. Also, "best game" is only relative to whatever else they've played and is a subjective thing. It seems like I misunderstood you on the story-driven thing as well. I think that when I'm wandering around "aimlessly" that I''m thinking about story even if it's a story I make for myself but I also enjoy more structured stories a lot. I agree that the story sequencing of games suffer in open world games. It's a bane of that type of RPG, just like stories that are very linear have little player freedom. A lot of games have trouble striking the balance between story and freedom but I enjoy open world games despite that flaw though not everyone will. Maybe in the future we will get games that can handle both better. As for the copying, I didn't really think it felt that similar to TW3. Most similarities are more due to both being semi-open world games. Be warned though that there are a lot of side quests in MEA, most are pretty small but there are a lot of them. There is a little bit of gating in the story since some parts of the map don't open up until you get further into the main quest but it's not as linear as the previous titles. I hope you enjoy it though. Good luck with your Ryder! At any given point in time, there is always one game that ranks as "the best I have ever played." For me, it's not a game that I would shelve for a year just to play other games being released. I'd postpone starting those other games until I finished "the best game I have ever played." Sure, it's subjective... but the quality of the "reason" for shelving what the poster claims is "the best game" they ever played seems really flimsy to me. It's sort of like... my favorite cake is chocolate and I have a chocolate one and a vanilla one in fron tof me... both fresh... but I'm going to set the chocolate aside until it gets stale and eat all the vanilla one first because...????... sorry, I don't get it. I don't think we're going to agree on this issue so we'll have to agree to disagree. Though your cake analogy is a bit funny because I would eat the cake I like best last. I always eat what I like best last no matter what it is.
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 25, 2017 0:23:12 GMT
To use one of his own assumptions on why it got such high scores: "I don't think he played the game". Sorry, but that game was revolutionary at its time, very few games did what it did and even today I don't see many outdoing it. It's a beautiful big ass fun sandbox to play in. All that matters really. You say that Skyrim was revolutionary? Yes I do. how many games have tried emulating it? How many have made the bank lik skyrim did? what made skyrim so good was it had very few limitations and a ton of flexibility where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted. It's a true definition of an open world game, and it has a big ass sandbox to go with it. Then there's the content, it has a story, although it's generally been an afterthought to people but it is there. Then you have your side quests and it has a lot of them. You can explore Azures doungens, be inside Nord tombs, find a ghost tricking a town into a cave being haunted, save a village from vampires, meet sheogorath and many other deadric leaders, assassinate the emperor, take part in theives guild, mage college, dark brotherhood, etc etc it's a lot (not including the DLC add-ons which add another hundred hours+). Then you do have your fetch quests there if it entertains anyone. It's a game where you can put 500+ hours in just one play through, that's how big it is and I didn't even mention the mods which I'd say skyrim does better than any other game ever, it has a community dedicated to skyrim which adds even more content that the fans will make.
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Post by simtam on May 25, 2017 4:49:22 GMT
The stats given show that about 26% of the players finished TW3... either by skipping through just the main, doing some of the side quests, or doing all of them because that stat is accumulated through achievements... so if people made the ending, their play counts towards that stat. Mass Effect 2 had 56% of people completing the game, ME3 had 42%. That difference is significant... i.e. it's not 1% or 2%.... it's double. TW3 could be easily shortened by 1/3 (most people don't find about 56 hours worth of those side quests anyways)... and IMO it would be vastly improved if all that "fluff" were left out. I think they would have enjoyed a higher completion rate... i.e. fewer people that wound up, like me, abandoning their playthroughs because they found themselves mired in side quests. No doubt there's always a room for a dozen or two more GOTY awards with sifting the content a bit more through some magic Sieve Of Quality. But the stats analysis does not show that. They show something else. Because with those steam players (and most CDPR fans would buy from GOG, I believe), the achievement for just getting out of the White Orchard is at 67.5%. Players who get past that exhibit your reasonable 27.6% / 67.5% = 40.8% game completion ratio. And players who don't are hardly discouraged by the length of the game.
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Post by Ancient on May 25, 2017 9:54:43 GMT
You say that Skyrim was revolutionary? Yes I do. how many games have tried emulating it? How many have made the bank lik skyrim did? what made skyrim so good was it had very few limitations and a ton of flexibility where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted. It's a true definition of an open world game, and it has a big ass sandbox to go with it. Then there's the content, it has a story, although it's generally been an afterthought to people but it is there. Then you have your side quests and it has a lot of them. You can explore Azures doungens, be inside Nord tombs, find a ghost tricking a town into a cave being haunted, save a village from vampires, meet sheogorath and many other deadric leaders, assassinate the emperor, take part in theives guild, mage college, dark brotherhood, etc etc it's a lot (not including the DLC add-ons which add another hundred hours+). Then you do have your fetch quests there if it entertains anyone. It's a game where you can put 500+ hours in just one play through, that's how big it is and I didn't even mention the mods which I'd say skyrim does better than any other game ever, it has a community dedicated to skyrim which adds even more content that the fans will make. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary in Skyrim. Zero! Previous TES games have better open worlds. To have a good open world you must have nice combination of quality story and quests, interesting characters, choices and consequences. And this is where Skyrim fails so bad. Open world is not only dungeons and caves filled with the same stuff. I play video games for 30 years, and i know what is good RPG. Skyrim is so broken and contradictory.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 11:32:17 GMT
At any given point in time, there is always one game that ranks as "the best I have ever played." For me, it's not a game that I would shelve for a year just to play other games being released. I'd postpone starting those other games until I finished "the best game I have ever played." Sure, it's subjective... but the quality of the "reason" for shelving what the poster claims is "the best game" they ever played seems really flimsy to me. It's sort of like... my favorite cake is chocolate and I have a chocolate one and a vanilla one in fron tof me... both fresh... but I'm going to set the chocolate aside until it gets stale and eat all the vanilla one first because...????... sorry, I don't get it. I don't think we're going to agree on this issue so we'll have to agree to disagree. Though your cake analogy is a bit funny because I would eat the cake I like best last. I always eat what I like best last no matter what it is. ... even if you're letting it go stale in the process? Obviously, I'm just way out of step with the younger generation (shrug).
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 11:42:08 GMT
The stats given show that about 26% of the players finished TW3... either by skipping through just the main, doing some of the side quests, or doing all of them because that stat is accumulated through achievements... so if people made the ending, their play counts towards that stat. Mass Effect 2 had 56% of people completing the game, ME3 had 42%. That difference is significant... i.e. it's not 1% or 2%.... it's double. TW3 could be easily shortened by 1/3 (most people don't find about 56 hours worth of those side quests anyways)... and IMO it would be vastly improved if all that "fluff" were left out. I think they would have enjoyed a higher completion rate... i.e. fewer people that wound up, like me, abandoning their playthroughs because they found themselves mired in side quests. No doubt there's always a room for a dozen or two more GOTY awards with sifting the content a bit more through some magic Sieve Of Quality. But the stats analysis does not show that. They show something else. Because with those steam players (and most CDPR fans would buy from GOG, I believe), the achievement for just getting out of the White Orchard is at 67.5%. Players who get past that exhibit your reasonable 27.6% / 67.5% = 40.8% game completion ratio. And players who don't are hardly discouraged by the length of the game. Since the stats for ME that I give don't eliminate people who buy the game and never crack it open or people who don't get out of the prologue, you're just adding in an aspect that conflates the comparison in order to build up TW3's numbers. TW3 is too long with too many useless side quests and non side quests and monster dens and guarded treasures, and bandit camps, and useless looting. Heck, I just watched a bit of the CohnCarnage playthrough... it took him 3 vids just to get to White Orchard because he undertook to kill everything he encountered on the way rather than just follow Vesimir. By the time he got to White Orchard and Vesimir was talking to him about being careful now that they had reached civilization... he made the comment "who's talking to me." That is, he had forgotten what he was even doing story-wise. In addition, I have little doubt that he wouldn't "get" the story context of some of what he did on the way to White Orchard because some of those jaunts he took did involve parts of side quests that he had not technically unlocked because he hadn't reached White Orchard yet... in other words, they would have "fit" better into the main story if he had waited to do them. So, although Cohn certainly persisted with his playtrhough... his playthrough does show evidence that he wasn't being driving by his interest in the story... the wasn't the story that had grabbed him... it was his love of the fighting. (As I said, I play Minecraft as well... so the story isn't everything in all games.) However, it's not a format that's the best for Bioware's style of story telling. It weakens the story overall and weakens the connection of the player to the story. I'm not talking about GOTY's and a "magic sieve of quality" I'm talking about the effects of open-world format in a story-heavy setting... so unknot your jimmies about defending TW3 and actually read... When a game is more linear the story is stronger because the writers can lead the player through the story better. In an open format, they have to try to set up their stories in such a way that they can be approached from every angle and in any sequence. That's not conducive to writing a mystery or a story with a really strong plot line or a story where the characters can develop and change over the duration of the story. The open-world format weakens the story.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 25, 2017 11:52:00 GMT
Yes I do. how many games have tried emulating it? How many have made the bank lik skyrim did? what made skyrim so good was it had very few limitations and a ton of flexibility where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted. It's a true definition of an open world game, and it has a big ass sandbox to go with it. Then there's the content, it has a story, although it's generally been an afterthought to people but it is there. Then you have your side quests and it has a lot of them. You can explore Azures doungens, be inside Nord tombs, find a ghost tricking a town into a cave being haunted, save a village from vampires, meet sheogorath and many other deadric leaders, assassinate the emperor, take part in theives guild, mage college, dark brotherhood, etc etc it's a lot (not including the DLC add-ons which add another hundred hours+). Then you do have your fetch quests there if it entertains anyone. It's a game where you can put 500+ hours in just one play through, that's how big it is and I didn't even mention the mods which I'd say skyrim does better than any other game ever, it has a community dedicated to skyrim which adds even more content that the fans will make. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary in Skyrim. Zero! Previous TES games have better open worlds. To have a good open world you must have nice combination of quality story and quests, interesting characters, choices and consequences. And this is where Skyrim fails so bad. Open world is not only dungeons and caves filled with the same stuff. I play video games for 30 years, and i know what is good RPG. Skyrim is so broken and contradictory. You're high. Skyrim was a great game last generation. No need to compare it to older, antiquated, outdated games just bc of the writing. Older games are like non progressive/non modernized old people, just let them die so we all can move on with innovation. Skyrim is getting close. And Games are about gameplay firstly mixed with state of the art graphics and a good story hopefully. But great games can also have a mediocre story.
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Post by Ancient on May 25, 2017 12:55:19 GMT
There is absolutely nothing revolutionary in Skyrim. Zero! Previous TES games have better open worlds. To have a good open world you must have nice combination of quality story and quests, interesting characters, choices and consequences. And this is where Skyrim fails so bad. Open world is not only dungeons and caves filled with the same stuff. I play video games for 30 years, and i know what is good RPG. Skyrim is so broken and contradictory. You're high. Skyrim was a great game last generation. No need to compare it to older, antiquated, outdated games just bc of the writing. Older games are like non progressive/non modernized old people, just let them die so we all can move on with innovation. Skyrim is getting close. And Games are about gameplay firstly mixed with state of the art graphics and a good story hopefully. But great games can also have a mediocre story. It is a great game for people who suffer from cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately many people do. Skyrim is dumbed-down and simplified for 10 years old kids. Is mediocrity future, modernization!? From your writing it is obvious that you are young player. I probably have more gaming experience then you years! And it's not only mediocre story. It's also poor writing, bad quest design with contradictions, fetch quests, boring characters, boring exploration where you always do the same, etc. In Skyrim you can join the dark brotherhood, kill the Emperor 2 times, and then join the Emperor legion the very next day!? And they know you are murderer! First time you kill fake Emperor, guards catch you and you pay a fine for trying to kill an Emperor!? Again, you pay fine trying to kill an Emperor!? Second time you kill real Emperor on such a ridiculous way where guards practically let you do it!? This is famous Bethesda quest design!? And somehow you should connect yourself with the world through quests, characters, story, etc. Well this is only possible if persons intelligence is on the level of cooked potato! The game is filled with this mediocrity. And all these elements are gameplay, interaction with the game.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:04:04 GMT
Yes, TW3 bombs at capturing the true open world experience. If it wasn't advertised as an open world world experience that sets the standard in open world, I wouldn't have been as massively let down. But it was one heck of a marketing ploy. Sure got me, at least. As I was looking forward to the next standard in open world. Instead what I found out is myself returning to the world of Skyrim once more since many years.
Whatever TW3 calls open world is an abomination. Nuff said.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:08:19 GMT
You're high. Skyrim was a great game last generation. No need to compare it to older, antiquated, outdated games just bc of the writing. Older games are like non progressive/non modernized old people, just let them die so we all can move on with innovation. Skyrim is getting close. And Games are about gameplay firstly mixed with state of the art graphics and a good story hopefully. But great games can also have a mediocre story. It is a great game for people who suffer from cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately many people do. Skyrim is dumbed-down and simplified for 10 years old kids. Is mediocrity future, modernization!? From your writing it is obvious that you are young player. I probably have more gaming experience then you years! And it's not only mediocre story. It's also poor writing, bad quest design with contradictions, fetch quests, boring characters, boring exploration where you always do the same, etc.In Skyrim you can join the dark brotherhood, kill the Emperor 2 times, and then join the Emperor legion the very next day!? And they know you are murderer! First time you kill fake Emperor, guards catch you and you pay a fine for trying to kill an Emperor!? Again, you pay fine trying to kill an Emperor!? Second time you kill real Emperor on such a ridiculous way where guards practically let you do it!? This is famous Bethesda quest design!? And somehow you should connect yourself with the world through quests, characters, story, etc. Well this is only possible if persons intelligence is on the level of cooked potato! The game is filled with this mediocrity. And all these elements are gameplay, interaction with the game. Again, every time someone defends TW3, it's never about the game play, world design, pacing, UI, loot system, exploration, etc. It's always story this, story that. Because that's alll TW3 is good at. And bombs at everything else. That's my point with this thread, gameplay & related, for the hundredth time. That's the topic. Not story.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 25, 2017 13:09:32 GMT
It is a great game for people who suffer from cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately many people do. Skyrim is dumbed-down and simplified for 10 years old kids. Is mediocrity future, modernization!? From your writing it is obvious that you are young player. I probably have more gaming experience then you years! And it's not only mediocre story. It's also poor writing, bad quest design with contradictions, fetch quests, boring characters, boring exploration where you always do the same, etc.In Skyrim you can join the dark brotherhood, kill the Emperor 2 times, and then join the Emperor legion the very next day!? And they know you are murderer! First time you kill fake Emperor, guards catch you and you pay a fine for trying to kill an Emperor!? Again, you pay fine trying to kill an Emperor!? Second time you kill real Emperor on such a ridiculous way where guards practically let you do it!? This is famous Bethesda quest design!? And somehow you should connect yourself with the world through quests, characters, story, etc. Well this is only possible if persons intelligence is on the level of cooked potato! The game is filled with this mediocrity. And all these elements are gameplay, interaction with the game. Again, every time someone defends TW3, it's never about the game play, world design, pacing, UI, loot system, exploration, etc. It's always story this, story that. Because that's alll TW3 is good at. And bombs at everything else. That's my point with this thread, gameplay & related, for the hundredth time.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 13:10:04 GMT
Yes, TW3 bombs at capturing the true open world experience. If it wasn't advertised as an open world world experience that sets the standard in open world, I wouldn't have been as massively let down. But it was one heck of a marketing ploy. Sure got me, at least. As I was looking forward to the next standard in open world. Instead what I found out is myself returning to the world of Skyrim once more since many years. Whatever TW3 calls open world is an abomination. Nuff said. As long as you are enjoying it, I am happy for you. I just really hope there is enough variability in games for all the folks to find their soul food game.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:17:20 GMT
Again, every time someone defends TW3, it's never about the game play, world design, pacing, UI, loot system, exploration, etc. It's always story this, story that. Because that's alll TW3 is good at. And bombs at everything else. That's my point with this thread, gameplay & related, for the hundredth time. Citation is this entire thread. Go read it. Every time some TW3 yahoo fanboy comes crying in it's defense, it's story this, story that. Always. And they have the nerve to say I'm some crazy blind fanboy.
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Post by Ancient on May 25, 2017 13:19:42 GMT
It is a great game for people who suffer from cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately many people do. Skyrim is dumbed-down and simplified for 10 years old kids. Is mediocrity future, modernization!? From your writing it is obvious that you are young player. I probably have more gaming experience then you years! And it's not only mediocre story. It's also poor writing, bad quest design with contradictions, fetch quests, boring characters, boring exploration where you always do the same, etc.In Skyrim you can join the dark brotherhood, kill the Emperor 2 times, and then join the Emperor legion the very next day!? And they know you are murderer! First time you kill fake Emperor, guards catch you and you pay a fine for trying to kill an Emperor!? Again, you pay fine trying to kill an Emperor!? Second time you kill real Emperor on such a ridiculous way where guards practically let you do it!? This is famous Bethesda quest design!? And somehow you should connect yourself with the world through quests, characters, story, etc. Well this is only possible if persons intelligence is on the level of cooked potato! The game is filled with this mediocrity. And all these elements are gameplay, interaction with the game. Again, every time someone defends TW3, it's never about the game play, world design, pacing, UI, loot system, exploration, etc. It's always story this, story that. Because that's alll TW3 is good at. And bombs at everything else. That's my point with this thread, gameplay & related, for the hundredth time. That's the topic. Not story. Do you even know what gameplay is? Read my posts better. Learn something.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:21:52 GMT
Again, every time someone defends TW3, it's never about the game play, world design, pacing, UI, loot system, exploration, etc. It's always story this, story that. Because that's alll TW3 is good at. And bombs at everything else. That's my point with this thread, gameplay & related, for the hundredth time. That's the topic. Not story. Do you even know what gameplay is? Read my posts better. Learn something. I've already explained myself. Go read my posts.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 25, 2017 13:23:02 GMT
Citation is this entire thread. Go read it. Every time some TW3 yahoo fanboy comes crying in it's defense, it's story this, story that. Always. And they have the nerve to say I'm some crazy blind fanboy. Right, you're pulling shit out of your arse. As usual.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:24:59 GMT
Citation is this entire thread. Go read it. Every time some TW3 yahoo fanboy comes crying in it's defense, it's story this, story that. Always. And they have the nerve to say I'm some crazy blind fanboy. Right, you're pulling shit out of your arse. As usual. Then you need to learn to read instead of just posting gif.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on May 25, 2017 13:27:04 GMT
Right, you're pulling shit out of your arse. As usual. Then you need to learn to read instead of just posting gif. Still no data, just more posturing.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 25, 2017 13:27:31 GMT
You're high. Skyrim was a great game last generation. No need to compare it to older, antiquated, outdated games just bc of the writing. Older games are like non progressive/non modernized old people, just let them die so we all can move on with innovation. Skyrim is getting close. And Games are about gameplay firstly mixed with state of the art graphics and a good story hopefully. But great games can also have a mediocre story. It is a great game for people who suffer from cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately many people do. Skyrim is dumbed-down and simplified for 10 years old kids. Is mediocrity future, modernization!? From your writing it is obvious that you are young player. I probably have more gaming experience then you years! And it's not only mediocre story. It's also poor writing, bad quest design with contradictions, fetch quests, boring characters, boring exploration where you always do the same, etc. In Skyrim you can join the dark brotherhood, kill the Emperor 2 times, and then join the Emperor legion the very next day!? And they know you are murderer! First time you kill fake Emperor, guards catch you and you pay a fine for trying to kill an Emperor!? Again, you pay fine trying to kill an Emperor!? Second time you kill real Emperor on such a ridiculous way where guards practically let you do it!? This is famous Bethesda quest design!? And somehow you should connect yourself with the world through quests, characters, story, etc. Well this is only possible if persons intelligence is on the level of cooked potato! The game is filled with this mediocrity. And all these elements are gameplay, interaction with the game. I was mostly just spewing nonsense for no reason at all. I'd like to think 30 is still young but yeah right on the money in terms of gaming experience vs age. Skyrim isn't the end all be all. I think all games have strengths and weaknesses so there will always be two sides of the coin with fans.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:37:23 GMT
Then you need to learn to read instead of just posting gif. Still no data, just more posturing. Well yeah, that's what happens when you don't read. No data.
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Post by Ancient on May 25, 2017 13:37:41 GMT
Do you even know what gameplay is? Read my posts better. Learn something. I've already explained myself. Go read my posts. I did, and it's ridiculous. All Witcher games are about excellent story, branching quests , characters, atmosphere, deep and meaningful choices and consequences, etc. And TW3 is exactly this in open world, or much bigger maps. And TW3 is the only game with quality over quantity. In terms of quality content it is the best game ever created. TW3 is total antithesis to Skyrim abomination. You can say how it's not for you, but you can't say it suck. It's childish.
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PSN: Simit2k30
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Post by simit on May 25, 2017 13:38:54 GMT
i liked TW3, i liked Skyrim and i like ME:A, all 3 have there strenghts and weaknesses as do all games, skyrim i like for the moments i just want to sneak about and truly explore, both ME:A an TW3, to me, cant an dont offer this, TW3 an ME:A itch the itch for story/dialogue/companion interaction etc, basically everything skyrim, for me, does really badly at but heck i never bought a ES game for narrative, thats why igot all the BioWare games
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:39:59 GMT
I've already explained myself. Go read my posts. I did, and it's ridiculous. All Witcher games are about excellent story, branching quests , characters, atmosphere, deep and meaningful choices and consequences, etc. And TW3 is exactly this in open world, or much bigger maps. And TW3 is the only game with quality over quantity. In terms of quality content it is the best game ever created. TW3 is total antithesis to Skyrim abomination. You can say how it's not for you, but you can't say it suck. It's childish. Then like I've said, you're hopeless to have any further discussions with.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 25, 2017 13:41:01 GMT
i liked TW3, i liked Skyrim and i like ME:A, all 3 have there strenghts and weaknesses as do all games, skyrim i like for the moments i just want to sneak about and truly explore, both ME:A an TW3, to me, cant an dont offer this, TW3 an ME:A itch the itch for story/dialogue/companion interaction etc, basically everything skyrim, for me, does really badly at but heck i never bought a ES game for narrative, thats why igot all the BioWare games Well said.
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