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Post by stinker666 on May 15, 2017 21:55:22 GMT
The open world nature makes quests feel very boring and repedetive. The game is like "hey here's a very important, story heavy mission, go to this random location where you might have been already and press a button".
In ME1-3 you had typical shooter corridors (nothing special), but these where specifically designed for the missions and made each mission unique in itself and also allowed for a lot of additional small but great stuff. I mean things like helping a random sick Baterian or letting him die because Shepard has a hate for Baterians (because Mindoir) or just pushing a merc ouf a window. And don't forget the Biotic God from ME2. All these small interactions didn't realy impact the story, but helped in developing Shepards personality. It's something ME1 and 2 did absolutly great and ME3 was lacking a bit which was fine though since it's the 3rd part and players would have a good idea of the character they're playing.
MEA hardly gives you any chance in developing your Ryder. The casual/emotional/professinal/logical is a nice idea but it dosen't cut it. The game's lacking the smaller interactions I mentioned above. Things that have no or very little impact and the story and are purely there for character development, but at the same feel natural and not forced. For example interrogating an enemy merc, or helping out some people that where hiding from a virus (talking about Mordins recruitment mission) or just having more conversations with NPCs.
The only reason MEA is open world is marketing. It's this typical "back to the roots"-cr*p, "all about exploration", "like ME1", "so large", completely disregarding that the exploration was the worst part of ME1 (don't tell me you liked trying to drive Mako arround boring planets). Also this "more=better"-trend. It's ruining a lot of grat games.
Cut the open world and focus and characters and story and the subtle but importand small things. I think that's what the majority of ME playes want. Nothings wrong with an open world, but not at the cost of the rest of the game. A perfect balance between the 2 is pretty impossible if you ask me.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 15, 2017 22:08:24 GMT
*raises hand* I liked the exploration in ME1. Thing is, ME1 never had an open world. It had a continous semi-open world with your ship as a mobile hub and heaps of different planets to explore. ME:A really goes more towards the classical open world that we know from fantasy RPGs and such. Thing is, ME never needed that IMO. I don't need to spend hours and hours driving around the same dessert, rather give me 20-30 minutes on a planet and then send me to next, you know, let me explore space and let me explore interesting stuff. So while I don't think ME:A definitely needed shooter corridors, it did need a lot of fat-trimming and stream-lining and also it needed variety. If the open areas had been more compact and the quest design had been more stream-lined, the quests, even in more open areas would have felt more ME-like. I do agree on both the little details and the dialogue wheel issue without much to add.
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Post by cypherj on May 15, 2017 22:09:23 GMT
All they had to do was make the quests affect your colonies development. Have them grow and expand based off some of the quests instead of just giving AVP and viability. Colony expands you can open more cryo pods, it all would have tied together neatly and the quests would have been part of the colonization aspect of the story.
People would have liked seeing their colonies grow, and would have wanted to do quests to see what effect they would have. Not saying every quest, but perhaps short questlines that culminated in improvements, or one longer quest that culminated in something.
Would have also kept more quests contained to more planets, and cut down on the system hopping and cutscene watching.
Just because something was implemented poorly doesn't make it a bad idea after the fact.
They should have also added pockets like marshes, better caves, caverns to explore. Perhaps hints of what the planet used to look like, or will look like after the terraforming. Places you could get out of the Nomad and explore.
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Post by samhain444 on May 15, 2017 22:11:21 GMT
I think the way it could work is to initially focus on Hub-World's similar to something Aya and then provide open world activities post-game.
Imagine having the first part of the game focus on the remnant sites/vaults plus specific hub worlds for each planet.
So, for example, Eos would have Site #1 and #2 Asari Ark info; Voeld, the resistance base, prisoner liberation; Havarl, rescue the scientists and Turian Ark info; Kardara post with Sloane/Reyes; Eladaan and the Krofan storyline. Plus, all connects to the intrigue on the Nexus
Other missions related to your companions, Arks, and Meridian could be done with Nav points on plants in the cluster identified as "anomalies" similar to ME2.
After finishing the main mission, you would be free to explore the now open planets and help build their habitability, whether you'd choose to or not would be up to you.
I think, in that scenario, the main narrative would till be tight but it would allow for open world post-game for those that wanted to explore the various mysteries of each main planet.
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Post by Reorte on May 15, 2017 22:14:52 GMT
Side missions needed to feel less trivial and unrewarding, and that's not really anything to do with the open world. The open world needed to feel much less samey though. That, IMO, was the problem with it, not how it fitted in to the story or not.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:18:45 GMT
I don't know if it's lacking the small subtle things, for me it's lacking a big strong storyline running thru the game. It's like ME2, only having a few big moments and leaving the rest of the game to all the other stuff. I preferred ME3's approach of almost every mission being important and part of the main narrative.
So I'd have liked maybe 3 more main missions, less side stuff, less companion stuff and more of a linear game that dragged me along with it as it raced thru events building up to a more dramatic ending.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 22:19:53 GMT
All they had to do was make the quests affect your colonies development. Have them grow and expand based off some of the quests instead of just giving AVP and viability. Colony expands you can open more cryo pods, it all would have tied together neatly and the quests would have been part of the colonization aspect of the story. People would have liked seeing their colonies grow, and would have wanted to do quests to see what effect they would have. Not saying every quest, but perhaps short questlines that culminated in improvements, or one longer quest that culminated in something. Would have also kept more quests contained to more planets, and cut down on the system hopping and cutscene watching. Just because something was implemented poorly doesn't make it a bad idea after the fact. They should have also added pockets like marshes, better caves, caverns to explore. Perhaps hints of what the planet used to look like, or will look like after the terraforming. Places you could get out of the Nomad and explore. I would have loved that! Would have made up for all the other little (and not so little) annoyances and bugs. Like, if the colony looked different if you had chosen Military vs Scientific. More guns on the roofs, shield barrier stations, racks of firearms and so forth. Scientific would have like, greenhouses and isolation rooms and crystal growths and other fun things. As the planet viability went up you could start to see like, plants starting to grow. And at 100% you have some noticeable plant and animal life improvements. And post game, you could have a nice bloom. That would have been so cool! They don't have to be huge substantial things, but some small things that make all the difference.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 15, 2017 22:21:39 GMT
I never stayed on each open world too long unless I was completing a main quest. The smaller tasks or quests were filler for me to random come across in my travels so it doesn't get boring driving across the map. Being able to jump from one detailed planet to another offered great pacing and allowed the worlds to not be the same cardboard cutout. Again most of it is optional and the main story quests and main side missions typically don't force you to spend a ton of time on one planet.
As for the dialogue, sure I miss some of the stuff like the biotic God and having linear missions on ilium. I will always welcome that in the future. I think MEA is the only game to ever blend open world and linear structure with about 100 hours of gameplay. Who is to say this middle ground formula shouldn't be perfected just to have more games like last gen Mass Effect.
The Nomad, mining, exploring, scanning, fighting, flying between planets felt more Mass Effect than ME2 or ME3 ever did, IMO. ME2 and ME3 never felt like true mass Effect games after they gutted the planet exploration, vehicles, and detailed inventory. But yes, MEA could have done better in the writing/ dialogue department.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:24:25 GMT
I learned after the Hinterlands to watch what I do lol unless I am in a crazy mood to explore, I just do quests sent to my inbox only and ignore the blue icons out in the field or in the hubs.
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Post by havard on May 15, 2017 22:26:55 GMT
Yeah...having now finished the game I've got to agree.
I finished all the planets before continuing on to Meridian...and that seems like a mistake now. The game tries to keep a consistent narrative, but it just gets confused. (Telling me I've got all this exploring to do post-Meridian, when I've done it all, etc.)
I'd much rather a tighter-controlled story that made sense, than a cobbled-together mish-mash of open-worldy-bullshit. This isn't an MMO, I don't need filler. Give me a good story, and let me decide how many hours I want to spend on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:29:10 GMT
I could do without open world, so I voted cut.
Bethesda's games have always bored me and Bioware's two recent attempts at open world I thought were a bit hit-and-miss. The only open world RPG that I'd list among my favorite games was The Witcher 3.
The last two ME games did just fine without any open world, and I'd argue both were better games than ME:A. The monotonous bits of ME1 were also the open world portions (repetitive uncharted worlds & the Citadel being largely devoid of life).
Unfortunately open world isn't going away. I doubt Bioware could even dump open world if it wanted to. Skyrim and TW3, both of which moved more than 10 million copies each, probably guarantee that EA would force Bioware to keep open world in its games. They want those sales numbers, which is why both ME and DA pivoted to open world to begin with. Skyrim changed how AAA RPGs are designed for the foreseeable future.
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Post by derrame on May 15, 2017 22:29:54 GMT
yes, ME does not need open world it just does not work here the trilogy had perfect maps, prfect fo the story and for each missions, they are big enough, and there are side qusts too, all missions are great, in an open world, an in mea all side quests are boring repetitive fetch quests, not worth doing
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 22:30:28 GMT
Yeah the storyline glitches really screw up immersion and continuity. Being told by a character that you did a good job on A, then in the next line, tell you to let them know when you're ready to do A, is just bad writing.
And squaddies acting like it's the first time you've been somewhere, even after the 10th time.
And being told to do a mission you did 3 days ago.
And...and....ugh.
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Post by Reorte on May 15, 2017 22:33:11 GMT
Considering the premise of the game I was expecting it to focus much more on exploration without a strong central plot.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:35:01 GMT
Yeah the storyline glitches really screw up immersion and continuity. Being told by a character that you did a good job on A, then in the next line, tell you to let them know when you're ready to do A, is just bad writing. And squaddies acting like it's the first time you've been somewhere, even after the 10th time. And being told to do a mission you did 3 days ago. And...and....ugh. I had to go to Voeld first, learn of Akksul from the datapad, do the stuff to get Evfra's approval, head straight to Havarl and do my part there and then talk to Evra and learn of Akksul from Jaal who was now ready to talk about him.
If you do it any other way, Jaal acts like he never told you of Akksul on Voeld, he acts like you did not already gain Evfra's approval if you do Havarl after talking to Evfra, and you get weird mixed greetings from the Angara.
Also if you do the Architect on Voeld first, the big introduction to it on Eos is pointless.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 22:40:18 GMT
Yeah the storyline glitches really screw up immersion and continuity. Being told by a character that you did a good job on A, then in the next line, tell you to let them know when you're ready to do A, is just bad writing. And squaddies acting like it's the first time you've been somewhere, even after the 10th time. And being told to do a mission you did 3 days ago. And...and....ugh. I had to go to Voeld first, learn of Akksul from the datapad, do the stuff to get Evfra's approval, head straight to Havarl and do my part there and then talk to Evra and learn of Akksul from Jaal who was now ready to talk about him.
If you do it any other way, Jaal acts like he never told you of Akksul on Voeld, he acts like you did not already gain Evfra's approval if you do Havarl after talking to Evfra, and you get weird mixed greetings from the Angara.
Also if you do the Architect on Voeld first, the big introduction to it on Eos is pointless. And crap like that. I don't see how people managed to miss those bugs.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:41:39 GMT
I had to go to Voeld first, learn of Akksul from the datapad, do the stuff to get Evfra's approval, head straight to Havarl and do my part there and then talk to Evra and learn of Akksul from Jaal who was now ready to talk about him.
If you do it any other way, Jaal acts like he never told you of Akksul on Voeld, he acts like you did not already gain Evfra's approval if you do Havarl after talking to Evfra, and you get weird mixed greetings from the Angara.
Also if you do the Architect on Voeld first, the big introduction to it on Eos is pointless. And crap like that. I don't see how people managed to miss those bugs. They are too busy complaining about other things that aren't going to improve the game's actual story, which BW caters to, leaving the logical stuff out because no one mentions it.
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Post by R'Shara on May 15, 2017 22:43:14 GMT
And crap like that. I don't see how people managed to miss those bugs. They are too busy complaining about other things that aren't going to improve the game's actual story, which BW caters to, leaving the logical stuff out because no one mentions it. Actually, I meant the people who say they didn't encounter very many bugs and that for them, Andromeda was great.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on May 15, 2017 22:46:44 GMT
If they can pull off a middle ground, I can happy with that, but if not, I want them to stick to open world design. This may have to do with the fact I have played MMOs for most of my life, so I have gotten used to big open maps. When I play shooters or any game with tight little corridors, I don't like it. I like exploring and seeing every nook and cranny. I also like weapons like the SR to be used at ranges they are meant to be used at. In MEA, I can snipe enemies at distances where they can't hit me back. The previous games I couldn't do that.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 22:46:51 GMT
They are too busy complaining about other things that aren't going to improve the game's actual story, which BW caters to, leaving the logical stuff out because no one mentions it. Actually, I meant the people who say they didn't encounter very many bugs and that for them, Andromeda was great. That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times!
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Post by NUM13ER on May 15, 2017 22:50:26 GMT
A lot of time it felt like it was a large map simply for the sake of being big, rather than they had all this meaningful content and needed the space to fill it. All of the missions on each world could have been accomplished on maps half the size or less and suffered nothing for it.
There were two locations I felt showed a good balance of having larger maps than the OT but not too large, Havarl and the asteroid H-047c. The former was completely on foot and had a good balance of hub areas (ie. scientist area, temple). The latter was basically a modern day version of the "uncharted worlds" from ME1 that was designed to have fun with the Nomad in low gravity.
Neither of those maps felt gratuitous when it came to their size, which cannot be said for many areas in Andromeda.
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Post by havard on May 15, 2017 22:59:58 GMT
Actually, I meant the people who say they didn't encounter very many bugs and that for them, Andromeda was great. That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! You've gone and verified who has played the game, have you? What method did you use for that? I've played it through, did every sidequest, read just about everything...it's a decent game on its own, but pretty shit compared to any of the original trilogy games with the exception fo the gunplay. The first time seeing all the lore in ME1 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The buildup to the suicide mission in ME2 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The overall atmosphere of 3 with the suspense of the imminent conclusion - beats the crap out of ME:A. (The ending notwithstanding.) Are you going to claim that I haven't played the game, or haven't played it 'properly?' (Are you the authority on approved methods of playing ME:A?)
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:01:14 GMT
That's the thing. MEA IS great! Yet the ones with the biggest complaints have't even properly played it or enjoyed it. That's why that stuff is ignored. Once I got into the new lore, read the datapads and did a few sidequests, it struck me how big this game actually is, and it's pretty dark too at times! You've gone and verified who has played the game, have you? What method did you use for that? I've played it through, did every sidequest, read just about everything...it's a decent game on its own, but pretty shit compared to any of the original trilogy games with the exception fo the gunplay. The first time seeing all the lore in ME1 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The buildup to the suicide mission in ME2 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The overall atmosphere of 3 with the suspense of the imminent conclusion - beats the crap out of ME:A. (The ending notwithstanding.) Are you going to claim that I haven't played the game, or haven't played it 'properly?' (Are you the authority on approved methods of playing ME:A?) So you complained over and over how ugly Sara looked or how the romances lacked? Those are the ones I am talking about. All BW has done is focus on the pretty stuff for fixes, and now the banter is backwards.
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Post by havard on May 15, 2017 23:12:56 GMT
You've gone and verified who has played the game, have you? What method did you use for that? I've played it through, did every sidequest, read just about everything...it's a decent game on its own, but pretty shit compared to any of the original trilogy games with the exception fo the gunplay. The first time seeing all the lore in ME1 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The buildup to the suicide mission in ME2 - beats the crap out of ME:A. The overall atmosphere of 3 with the suspense of the imminent conclusion - beats the crap out of ME:A. (The ending notwithstanding.) Are you going to claim that I haven't played the game, or haven't played it 'properly?' (Are you the authority on approved methods of playing ME:A?) So you complained over and over how ugly Sara looked or how the romances lacked? Those are the ones I am talking about. All BW has done is focus on the pretty stuff for fixes, and now the banter is backwards. Yeah. I have actually. Add in the obvious omissions of skin tone/face structure too while you're at it.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:15:56 GMT
So you complained over and over how ugly Sara looked or how the romances lacked? Those are the ones I am talking about. All BW has done is focus on the pretty stuff for fixes, and now the banter is backwards. Yeah. I have actually. Add in the obvious omissions of skin tone/face structure too while you're at it. That's what they are working on now, along with m/m romance improvements.
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